4002 replies to this topic

[Emilvang]

Was just Buxton trolling.

[Exb]

hmmm, I think the journalist are having a laugh, there is no PC

[Wheels23]

noikeee, on 22 Sept 2015 - 11:59, said:

In the long term surely you'd rather be the lead driver of a works team than stuck in a customer team, even if at the moment that team has a far better engine. I think it'd be a clever move by him even if it results in a worse car for 2016.

 

... which is why Grosjean moving away from them, to a brand new team of all places, is so baffling. Even considering that he's also trying to play a long term game of getting into Ferrari, but that's a leap of faith.

 

But I don't see why would Renault pick Perez over Vergne unless they want both of their drivers to bring in money. Which is more than a bit cheap for a manufacturer.

 

Maybe Perez is a better driver than Vergne? 

[charly0418]

dierome1987, on 22 Sept 2015 - 08:34, said:

LOL. If they had trouble getting past lap 1 this year, imagine how that's gonna turn out in 2016!

 

Perez has 1 DNF on the whole season, and came in Hungary after crashing with Pastor

 

Yeah

[charly0418]

JeePee, on 22 Sept 2015 - 10:14, said:

When my favorite driver passes or gets passed by Perez, I'm still biting my nails. I only have that with him and Maldonado.

Both also had a stupid clash with each other as short ago as Hungary.

 

Not as stupid as Max in Monaco this year, dont worry mate

[charly0418]

BTW, I cannot find that Gazzeta dello Sport "report" about Perez going to Renault. Its not anywhere on their website, is it on the print?

[Wheels23]

charly0418, on 22 Sept 2015 - 14:23, said:

Perez has 1 DNF on the whole season, and came in Hungary after crashing with Pastor

 

Yeah

 

And Pastor has DNFed 3 times due to accidents/collisions. Australia with an accident, Britain and Italy where he was just an innocent bystander. 

[Fisico54]

Didn't he trigger the whole incident in Monza?

[SealTheDiffuser]

Fisico54, on 22 Sept 2015 - 15:25, said:

Didn't he trigger the whole incident in Monza?

 

no, Ericsson

[charly0418]

Fisico54, on 22 Sept 2015 - 15:25, said:

Didn't he trigger the whole incident in Monza?

 

lol no, he wasnt involved at all

[CurbPainter]

Anja, on 22 Sept 2015 - 11:06, said:

In my eyes Perez has improved a lot over the years, he's a pretty solid driver at the moment. As a Team Enstone fan I wouldn't mind one bit if they get him. As for Ocon, Renault could give him a season in GP2 with the intention of replacing Maldonado in 2017 if he does well.

 

Sport on the highest level is also about not buckling under pressure, and he did really well with two Toro Rosso's on his tail after a long and demanding prelude in Singapore...he certainly has risen in my regards by that performance.

 

The same as Kvyat has risen a lot by me by being under huge pressure in the early part of the season, but has performed well within his possibilities (although Ricciardo is faster as him, he still has shown good overtaking and solid performances while being under big pressure later on in the season).  

 

Ocon might indeed benefit still somewhat from a year of GP2 first, but I don't think it's needed to postpone it too long (remember, in `17 you can have a driver with one year of F1 experience or with only one year of GP2 experience)...I think he's talented enough to have enough raw pace to make the pressure not being to big on him (it's the drivers who are nothing more as potential midfield drivers who have the most pressure when brought into too early, but the ones who have more talented natural race pace have the ability to be fast enough without the pressure getting too big).

[Wheels23]

Fisico54, on 22 Sept 2015 - 15:25, said:

Didn't he trigger the whole incident in Monza?

 

Nope. Both Lotus were involved though. I think if I can recall that he was taking avoidable action and went over the kerbs in the first chicane and yeah damaged it. I think

[l8apex]

SuperSwede, on 21 Sept 2015 - 12:22, said:

I think that Ferrari are looking to replace Kimi with Max Verstappen in 2017 and that they´re gonna get him too. There´s no doubt in my mind that he´s the real deal and it would surprise me if they don´t demand an option on him for 2017 as part of their engine deal with RedBull/STR.

 

Just my 2 cents..

 

I think it is going to come down to Verstappen and Grosjean for the 2017 Ferrari seat.

 

Grosjean can handily beat Gutierrez, Vergne might be a bit closer, but I think Grosjean would still clearly outperform him.

 

Unless something crazy happens with Ricciardo somehow becoming available ... but then I don't know if they want to upset the apple cart with Vettel operating at max confidence right now.

 

Bottas and Hulkenberg needed to do more to impress against their teammates to really stand out, which they have failed to do.

[charly0418]

A lot can happen between now and the summer of next year. I see like 6 drivers who have a chance to go to Ferrari next year, so many that its not even worth discussing yet

[TFLB]

l8apex, on 22 Sept 2015 - 17:20, said:

I think it is going to come down to Verstappen and Grosjean for the 2017 Ferrari seat.

 

Grosjean can handily beat Gutierrez, Vergne might be a bit closer, but I think Grosjean would still clearly outperform him.

 

Unless something crazy happens with Ricciardo somehow becoming available ... but then I don't know if they want to upset the apple cart with Vettel operating at max confidence right now.

 

Bottas and Hulkenberg needed to do more to impress against their teammates to really stand out, which they have failed to do.

Hulkenberg has apparently already been turned down by Mclaren and Ferrari - Ferrari had access to all of his data from his Sauber days and decided he wasn't good enough (this info comes from James Allen I believe), and according to him and also some others the top teams are all of the same opinion that he isn't good enough. I think it's unlikely Hulk will ever be in a top team. Plus he's not that young any more. And is being beaten by Perez. Regarding Ricciardo - I don't think it's crazy at all to suggest that he might be available - all 4 Red Bull drivers might soon be available if some rumours are to be believed! Though personally I'd take any of Kvyat, Verstappen or Sainz over Ricciardo if I were Ferrari.

[MortenF1]

TFLB, on 22 Sept 2015 - 18:52, said:

Though personally I'd take any of Kvyat, Verstappen or Sainz over Ricciardo if I were Ferrari.

Why on earth would anyone take Kvyat over Ricciardo??

Sainz or Verstappen I could understand, as you could pull the "has bigger potential"-card, but I personally doubt that they have.

Edited by race addicted, 22 September 2015 - 18:56.

[Marklar]

race addicted, on 22 Sept 2015 - 18:56, said:

Why on earth would anyone take Kvyat over Ricciardo??

Sainz or Verstappen I could understand, as you could pull the "has bigger potential"-card, but I personally doubt that they have.

There is also no reason to be sure that Kvyat has less potential than Sainz though. And Ferrari would probably take the driver with less potential due to their #1 driver politics. However this is not silly season 2016 talk, this is already 2017 unless RB withdraws of course....

[charly0418]

Mexican media reporting that Perez is still negotiating with Force India and talks are getting intensive

 

One of the reporters here even suggests that Perez is using the Renault interest to put some pressure on Vijay

[TFLB]

race addicted, on 22 Sept 2015 - 18:56, said:

Why on earth would anyone take Kvyat over Ricciardo??

Sainz or Verstappen I could understand, as you could pull the "has bigger potential"-card, but I personally doubt that they have.

Just never been completely convinced by Ricciardo, personally. TBH I have been more impressed with Kvyat this season, considering the experience difference. I expect Kvyat to beat him next year if Red Bull are still around.

[OvDrone]

I hope Perez gets a good deal, at FI or Renault. Dude more than deserves it.

Edited by OvDrone, 22 September 2015 - 21:10.

[V8 Fireworks]

TFLB, on 22 Sept 2015 - 20:51, said:

Just never been completely convinced by Ricciardo, personally. 

 

 

 

Clearly with 3 wins, 10 podiums and 4 fastest laps; it's obvious that RIcciardo is not very good. 

[wonk123]

If RBR pull the pin, will Kimi get a year off again? KR has a paid year off and DR to Ferrari??

[maximilian]

Sure would be ironic if suddenly 4 good Red Bull drivers are without seats!

[RealRacing]

If Button announces his retirement in Japan, who will fill that McLaren seat?

 

If RBR and STR leave, where will those 4 drivers go?

 

Who will be VET's next teammate after RAI?

[lbennie]

wonk123, on 23 Sept 2015 - 01:57, said:

If RBR pull the pin, will Kimi get a year off again? KR has a paid year off and DR to Ferrari??

 

Can see this happening. Ferrari have been chasing him hard for a while now - according to marko

[CurbPainter]

lbennie, on 23 Sept 2015 - 02:21, said:

Can see this happening. Ferrari have been chasing him hard for a while now - according to marko

 

In that case it will be between Ricciardo and Verstappen, and if it's going to be Ricciardo, Mercedes will sign up Verstappen and place him at another team for a short while...will Mercedes sign up Ricciardo if it's going to be Verstappen ?

[Marklar]

CurbPainter, on 23 Sept 2015 - 03:05, said:

In that case it will be between Ricciardo and Verstappen, and if it's going to be Ricciardo, Mercedes will sign up Verstappen and place him at another team for a short while...will Mercedes sign up Ricciardo if it's going to be Verstappen ?

And where should Mercedes place Ricciardo in this case? Only opportunity would be after Rosbergs contract expires in the end of 2016, so 2017...

[CurbPainter]

Marklar, on 23 Sept 2015 - 03:09, said:

And where should Mercedes place Ricciardo in this case? Only opportunity would be after Rosbergs contract expires in the end of 2016, so 2017...

 

That's why I was asking.

 

I know all the big teams have been after Verstappen from the age of 12, and last year Mercedes and Ferrari definitely wanting to sign up him up. It would have been Mercedes if Red Bull hadn't offered him a seat, but he had to go to GP2 first. Toto Wolf actually advised Max to go Red Bull because of the seat offer.

 

I would not put my money on either one of Ricciardo or Verstappen being nr. 1 on the Ferrari list now after Max having shown what he can do already.

 

Edit : thinking about it, I would guess that either Ricciardo or Verstappen in that case would go for a year to Force India before replacing Rosberg. And if Verstappen is nr.1 on the list of Ferrari, he still might choose for the Mercedes deal, just like Ricciardo might do if he gets a Mercedes offer...but both Ferrari and Mercedes are going to be after them and will try to get at least one of them.

Edited by CurbPainter, 23 September 2015 - 03:56.

[hittheapex]

How about this? Ferrari or Mercedes sign Verstappen, say that he has to do two more years with Haas or Force India so that he will be well prepared for the step up to the full team. Meanwhile, Ferrari have Raikkonen or can take Ricciardo for 2 years, Mercedes have Rosberg. Ferrari and Mercedes can make their mind up for 2018, or move Verstappen up a year early if they think he is ready.

[Marklar]

CurbPainter, on 23 Sept 2015 - 03:18, said:

That's why I was asking.

I know all the big teams have been after Verstappen from the age of 12, and last year Mercedes and Ferrari definitely wanting to sign up him up. It would have been Mercedes if Red Bull hadn't offered him a seat, but he had to go to GP2 first. Toto Wolf actually advised Max to go Red Bull because of the seat offer.

I would not put my money on either one of Ricciardo or Verstappen being nr. 1 on the Ferrari list now after Max having shown what he can do already.

Edit : thinking about it, I would guess that either Ricciardo or Verstappen in that case would go for a year to Force India before replacing Rosberg. And if Verstappen is nr.1 on the list of Ferrari, he still might choose for the Mercedes deal, just like Ricciardo might do if he gets a Mercedes offer...but both Ferrari and Mercedes are going to be after them and will try to get at least one of them.

Ricciardo wouldnt go to FI I guess and even if he than we have an other problem: Mercedes want at least one German driver (for Marketing reasons) thats why they are pushing Wehrlein. I guess that Verstappen as someone who can speak German would be also ok. So I personally believe that Ricciardo isnt in any case on the Mercedes list because Mercedes knows exactly which driver type will replace in the future each driver and given that Hamilton will probably not leave before 2019 just a German driver and perhaps Verstappen have until than a chance to get the Mercedes seat. However Mercedes is satisfied with Rosberg and if he wants to continue than he will continue.

Should the worst case happen and RB withdraws than I believe that Ferrari would want Ricciardo in the first place as he was already their 1st choice but not available. Than it depends on many things what happens to Verstappen it is possible that Ferrari would stil want him and they would place him at an other team but which with perspectives when Vettel and in this case Ricciardo have probably long-term contracts? So I guess that he would take than an Mercedes offer and than I believe that Mercedes will put him in the same team like Wehrlein (probably Manor) for battling out the future Mercedes seat (which Verstappen should easily win)

All this stuff is very hypothetical if course, for the sake of F1 it shouldn't happen...

Edited by Marklar, 23 September 2015 - 06:56.

[lustigson]

Apparently Red Bull threatened to quit F1. Again. And this time over alleged sub-par Ferrari engines. 

[TFLB]

V8 Fireworks, on 23 Sept 2015 - 01:14, said:

 

Clearly with 3 wins, 10 podiums and 4 fastest laps; it's obvious that RIcciardo is not very good. 

Didn't say he wasn't good - just think he's not quite as good as some people do! Never particularly stood out against Vergne at STR, was up against a strangely off-form Vettel last year, and hasn't had that much of a margin over an inexperienced Kvyat this year.

[Kao18]

Wouldn't it be a breach of contract with their drivers if Red Bull pulls out? At least with Ricciardo and Verstappen as they have long term contracts.

 

I mean it is not like Red Bull is almost bankrupt so I assume they have an obligation towards their drivers.

 

Also most of the other seats for 2016 are taken already and no matter how good Ricciardo, Kvyat, Verstappen and Sainz are I can't see to many teams kicking anyone out to be replaced by any of these guys as they also have contracts and sponsor money in place already for next year.

 

Anyway in the unlikely event that Red Bull would pull the plug I assume there would be other interested buyers who could buy the teams and their staff etc.

[Radion]

Kao18, on 23 Sept 2015 - 08:24, said:

Wouldn't it be a breach of contract with their drivers if Red Bull pulls out? At least with Ricciardo and Verstappen as they have long term contracts.

 

I mean it is not like Red Bull is almost bankrupt so I assume they have an obligation towards their drivers.

 

Also most of the other seats for 2016 are taken already and no matter how good Ricciardo, Kvyat, Verstappen and Sainz are I can't see to many teams kicking anyone out to be replaced by any of these guys as they also have contracts and sponsor money in place already for next year.

 

Anyway in the unlikely event that Red Bull would pull the plug I assume there would be other interested buyers who could buy the teams and their staff etc.

I think there are a couple of teams ready to take Verstappen/Ricciardo as third driver until one of their drivers retire/change teams. Also, if RedBull pulls out and they can't offer them any other seats the drivers might be interested in as well they most likely will have to pay them out the money they still would earn. 

 

But won't happen. No way in hell Bernard will let that four cars not be on the grid next year.

[shmoo]

CurbPainter, on 23 Sept 2015 - 03:05, said:

In that case it will be between Ricciardo and Verstappen, and if it's going to be Ricciardo, Mercedes will sign up Verstappen and place him at another team for a short while...will Mercedes sign up Ricciardo if it's going to be Verstappen ?

 

 

Why do Mercedes need to replace their line up? 

[dierome1987]

shmoo, on 23 Sept 2015 - 08:40, said:

Why do Mercedes need to replace their line up? 

 

Unless Rosberg concedes he's just not as good as Hamilton (and thus becomes willing to be a Barrichello/Massa figure), I think he will want to try his luck elsewhere in 2017.

[Arundo]

I guess when Red Bull and Toro Rosso will leave F1 the whole Three cars per team discussion will surface again. Maybe even the whole target from Ferrari and Mercedes to push out RB and TR. 

 

My guess for both scenario's:

 

Scenario one: RB getting Ferrari power units:

Mercedes - Mercedes

Hamilton/Rosberg

Ferrari - Ferrari

Vettel/Raikkonen

Williams - Mercedes

Massa/Bottas

Red Bull - Ferrari

Ricciardo/Kvyat

Force India - Mercedes

Hulkenberg/Wehlrlein

Renault - Renault

Maldonado/Perez

Toro Rosso - Ferrari

Verstappen/Sainz

Sauber - Ferrari

Ericsson/Nasr

McLaren - Honda

Alonso/Magnussen

Manor - Mercedes

Vandoorne/Rossi

Haas - Ferrari

Grosjean/Guttierez

 

Scenario two: RB not getting Ferrari power units and pull out both teams:

Mercedes - Mercedes

Hamilton/Rosberg/Ricciardo

Ferrari - Ferrari

Vettel/Raikkonen/Verstappen

Williams - Mercedes

Massa/Bottas/Sainz

Force India - Mercedes

Hulkenberg/Wehlrlein

Renault - Renault

Maldonado/Perez/Kvyat

Sauber - Ferrari

Ericsson/Nasr

McLaren - Honda

Alonso/Magnussen/Vandoorne

Haas - Ferrari

Grosjean/Guttierez

 

I left out Manor as I’m not sure if Mercedes and Williams are happy to support them when they have and can field a third car.

Edited by Arundo, 23 September 2015 - 09:02.

[sopa]

dierome1987, on 23 Sept 2015 - 08:51, said:

Unless Rosberg concedes he's just not as good as Hamilton (and thus becomes willing to be a Barrichello/Massa figure), I think he will want to try his luck elsewhere in 2017.

 

Unfortunately for him there is a serious lack of competitive teams in F1. Barrichello left Ferrari after 2005, but he still joined BAR/Honda, which looked pretty promising at the time. The only serious option for Rosberg could be Ferrari, but yeah - Ferrari would again have an internal argument whether they need 2 Germans... So Ferrari could easily sign somebody else. Red Bull would take their own drivers, and they have plenty of promising ones to choose from. McLaren-Honda would seriously need to improve to become an attractive prospect. Williams is just a B-grade team, where he can hope for an odd podium.

 

Webber wasn't happy to be in the shadow of Vettel, but he knew he had no other good place to go to. Usually the so-called second drivers concede that in the end it is still better to sit in the best car and hope for a mishap of the lead driver, than to compete for 5th positions and no hope of serious successat all.

[SealTheDiffuser]

Arundo, on 23 Sept 2015 - 08:58, said:

I guess when Red Bull and Toro Rosso will leave F1 the whole Three cars per team discussion will surface again. Maybe even the whole target from Ferrari and Mercedes to push out RB and TR. 

 

My guess for both scenario's:

 

Scenario one: RB getting Ferrari power units:

Mercedes - Mercedes

Hamilton/Rosberg

Ferrari - Ferrari

Vettel/Raikkonen

Williams - Mercedes

Massa/Bottas

Red Bull - Ferrari

Ricciardo/Kvyat

Force India - Mercedes

Hulkenberg/Wehlrlein

Renault - Renault

Maldonado/Perez

Toro Rosso - Ferrari

Verstappen/Sainz

Sauber - Ferrari

Ericsson/Nasr

McLaren - Honda

Alonso/Magnussen

Manor - Mercedes

Vandoorne/Rossi

Haas - Ferrari

Grosjean/Guttierez

 

Scenario two: RB not getting Ferrari power units and pull out both teams:

Mercedes - Mercedes

Hamilton/Rosberg/Ricciardo

Ferrari - Ferrari

Vettel/Raikkonen/Verstappen

Williams - Mercedes

Massa/Bottas/Sainz

Force India - Mercedes

Hulkenberg/Wehlrlein

Renault - Renault

Maldonado/Perez/Kvyat

Sauber - Ferrari

Ericsson/Nasr

McLaren - Honda

Alonso/Magnussen/Vandoorne

Haas - Ferrari

Grosjean/Guttierez

 

I left out Manor as I’m not sure if Mercedes and Williams are happy to support them when they have and can field a third car.

 

that are beautiful 3 car teams...

 

so Bernie pays and the fun continues,

 

even without those RB guys

[noikeee]

RealRacing, on 23 Sept 2015 - 02:06, said:

If Button announces his retirement in Japan, who will fill that McLaren seat?

 

This is hardly some great mystery, it's certainly either Vandoorne or Magnussen with the odds being in favour of Vandoorne, IMO.

[Anja]

RB doesn't even have the engine deal and they're already complaining about it

[rasul]

RealRacing, on 23 Sept 2015 - 02:06, said:

If Button announces his retirement in Japan, who will fill that McLaren seat?

 

If RBR and STR leave, where will those 4 drivers go?

 

Who will be VET's next teammate after RAI?

To be honest, I think it will be Grosjean after  a short spell at Haas. 

[FullThrottleF1]

It looks like Red Bull are set to leave F1. 

 

Well done Bernie, well done.

[LeClerc]

FullThrottleF1, on 23 Sept 2015 - 09:47, said:

It looks like Red Bull are set to leave F1. 

 

Well done Bernie, well done.

 

I like to think that Bernie is one the main problems with F1, but how does he have anything to do with RB throwing yet another tantrum ?

[Marklar]

rasul, on 23 Sept 2015 - 09:44, said:

To be honest, I think it will be Grosjean after  a short spell at Haas.

Would fit: solid #2

[sopa]

Aren't we jumping the gun a bit on the Red Bull thing?

 

I know politically they have been played pretty much into the corner (no competitive engines for them for a while it seems), but pulling out two teams simultaneously doesn't work too easily. They need to decide, whether to sell those teams, or use those facilities for something else. And who would buy a team? IIRC Red Bull attempted to sell Toro Rosso a few years ago, but with no great success. Would Red Bull completely pull out, or they would pull out only as a team owner, but still keep supporting drivers? Which means Ricciardo, et al, would become paydrivers in underfunded new teams.

[noikeee]

I'm pretty sure they're contractually obliged to remain in the sport for a few more years, if they really do pull out they'd have to pay a pretty huge fine. Unless they can successfully argue legally they want to compete but can't because they don't have an engine.

[Jon83]

I'd be happy with Grosjean at Ferrari in 2017. I think he is massively underrated.

[HistoryFan]

Mercedes: Lewis Hamilton – Nico Rosberg

Ferrari: Sebastian Vettel – Kimi Räikkönen

Williams Mercedes: Valtteri Bottas – Felipe Massa

Red Bull Ferrari: Daniel Ricciardo – Daniil Kvyat (?)

Force India Mercedes: Sergio Pérez – Nicolas Hülkenberg

Lotus/Renault: Pastor Maldonado – Jean-Eric Vergne (?)

Toro Rosso Ferrari: Max Verstappen – Carlos Sainz jr. (?)

Sauber Ferrari: Felipe Nasr – Marcus Ericsson

McLaren Honda: Fernando Alonso – Stoffel Vandoorne (?)

Manor Mercedes: Alexander Rossi (?) – Pascal Wehrlein (?)

Haas Ferrari: Romain Grosjean (?) – Kevin Magnussen (?)

[SealTheDiffuser]

Jon83, on 23 Sept 2015 - 10:37, said:

I'd be happy with Grosjean at Ferrari in 2017. I think he is massively underrated.

he is good but not better than RAi or Vet