66 replies to this topic

[ThursdayCar]

Hi all. Calling once more on your collective knowledge and wisdom!

 

Bud Morley raced an Elva Mk II (McLaren M1B) in 1966 and I have two questions:

1) Who was the engine supplier/tuner he carried a sticker of on the side of his car (with a griffin / lion on it)

2) What was the first name of his mechanic with surname Collins?

 

 

Also, John Cannon drove the ex-Bonnier, yellow, McLaren M6B with MAC's branding in 1969 (Mont Tremblant).

His mechnic's firstname was JACK. What was his surname?

 

 

Thanks for all your help!

 

 

[E1pix]

I think it's my old friend (RIP) Danny Collins -- but I only say that because Morley lived in Denver and so did Danny. Kind of looks like "Danny" as well. But, he's not in that photo and I knew him as a driver and trainer, not a wrench.

And no, I doubt most here mind discussing Can-Am!!!

Edited by E1pix, 13 November 2015 - 16:25.

[Sisyphus]

Hi all. Calling once more on your collective knowledge and wisdom!

 

Bud Morley raced an Elva Mk II (McLaren M1B) in 1966 and I have two questions:

1) Who was the engine supplier/tuner he carried a sticker of on the side of his car (with a griffin / lion on it)

 

 

 

 

Thanks for all your help!

 

I think maybe Ivey Engines from Portland, Oregon might be the engine tuner--they use a rampant lion/griffen for a logo.

 

Gerry

[E1pix]

That's a good guess!

 

I've sent them a link to solve the mystery...

[fbarrett]

The mechanic's name might have been Dabney Collins, also from Denver but like Danny, not known as a wrench. Bud drove an Arnolt-Bristol on the Colorado Grand with his son about 15 years ago, but he's gone now.

 

Frank

[E1pix]

Good call Frank, looks more like that, too. 

[Jerry Entin]

Bud Morley in race suit, Jerry Entin looking on as Jim Travers tunes his McLaren

 

photo: Dave Friedman

[group7]

the logo on the Morley car is similar, Ivey engines in Portland Oregon, according to the site came into being early '80s. maybe there was an earlier itineration ?

 

Mike (group7)

[E1pix]

Good spot, Mike.

[ThursdayCar]

Hi guys! Wow, I thought I'd log in this morning to see if there was 'a' reply - but this is terrific!! You don't mess about do you! Ha!

Thanks so much. I will pursue some of these 'lines of enquiry' and will be grateful for any further additions! Hope I can be 'of use' to some of you as well sometime! Appreciate all your help and time.

[ThursdayCar]

Quick snapshot of the reason behind my many Can Am queries... (scale 1/43rd)

 

Top to bottom: Skip Scott, Jerry Entin, John Cannon

Edited by ThursdayCar, 14 November 2015 - 11:50.

[ThursdayCar]

PS - great photo Jerry! :-)

 

PPS - Bud appears to be holding a hammer... to tune the engine? tune the tuner?   (Over here in the UK, the hammer, or 'persuading device', is Jeremy Clarkson's prefered multitool!)

Edited by ThursdayCar, 14 November 2015 - 11:52.

[JacnGille]

If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer! 

[ThursdayCar]

Bonjour everyone. Thanks again for the various replies and direct messages. I had a few further mysteries to solve and, rather than posting lots of loose threads, thought I'd summarise them below - hope you fellas have some idea of what these might be! Happy Sunday!

 

Bye for now

[ThursdayCar]

DARN - still managed to miss one other query out of my list, above. Does anyone know what it would have said on Ludwig Heimrath's car just in front of the REDeX? (in white, on yellow)

© Ed Watts

 

Cheers!

Edited by ThursdayCar, 15 November 2015 - 11:39.

[ThursdayCar]

Anyone seen a colour image of the Goth McLaren (Mike Goth) with the gold number 86 on it (not the black on white)?

 

© Dave Friedman

Edited by ThursdayCar, 15 November 2015 - 11:38.

[ThursdayCar]

And (finally?)... I am of the understanding this car (Morley at the wheel) was gold in its day. Anyone got a colour pic? Also to get an idea of the colour of the sponsor decals (e.g. Colorado)...

 

© Dave Friedman

[Wirra]

Anyone seen a colour image of the Goth McLaren (Mike Goth) with the gold number 86 on it (not the black on white)?

 

 

© Dave Friedman

 

http://www.racingspo...th Special.html

[R.W. Mackenzie]

ThursdayCar,

 

The round red and white decal on the wing end plate of John Cordts' M8C is for the CASC (Canadian Automobile Sports Clubs), the Canadian Equivalent of the SCCA (Sports Car Clubs of America).

 

It exists now only as the CASC Ontario Region.

 

http://www.casc.on.ca/

 

Cheers,

 

Bob Mackenzie

[ThursdayCar]

Thanks Wirra - I am aware of that site/shot but that's not the version car I need, in colour

Bob - fantastic, that's another piece of the puzzle! Shame on me for not knowing this!

Edited by ThursdayCar, 15 November 2015 - 14:47.

[D28]

I'm very interested in your photo of Ludwig Heimrath's McLaren, though I cannot say what the decal on the right flank is.

 

Ludwig was my first driving hero, running a RS-60 Porsche on Canadian airport circuits. He was also the first Canadian to drive F1, getting a factory drive for Porsche in the 62 Pau Grand Prix. He was Canadian Driving Champion a couple of times, as the #1 signifies.

 

The car pictured McLaren Elva Mk 1 was his 65 racer, and bucking the trend was Ford powered. Presumably this was because of Ford sponsorship, the car was billed as Keating Ford Special.  His later McLarens were Chevy powered.

 

This link appears to be from someone else doing some modeling; you can have a look and improve your German at the same time!

 

http://www.werkshome...mclaren_m1a.htm

[ThursdayCar]

Hi there D28 - my German ain't bad! I am a Dutch-born Brit (since 15 years) and the Dutch have always felt the need to learn their bigger neighbours' tongue from a young age!

 

I am familiar with the webpageyou refer to and have some of those images in my file for reference.

 

However, I want to create the car he raced in July and September of 1965 (Mont Tremblant, Mosport) with the full "Keating Special" livery on the rear haunches. I am also building his later orange M1B, his red M1B and his orange M1C McLarens, so I will post some images once done. May be a good few months away though!

 

Thanks!

[D28]

 

 

However, I want to create the car he raced in July and September of 1965 (Mont Tremblant, Mosport) with the full "Keating Special" livery on the rear haunches. I am also building his later orange M1B, his red M1B and his orange M1C McLarens, so I will post some images once done. May be a good few months away though!

 

Thanks!

Right. I have looked at a different photos of the 65 car and cannot read the decal in question. Most of the photos you have already accessed. There are not that many available, but will keep searching.

[ThursdayCar]

Sometimes I just need a clearer image of the shape of the decal to match it to something I know... but this one, on this image, above, is just too blurry

[ThursdayCar]

The REDeX query of Ludwig's later, red, car is another one of those brain-teasers!

[nexfast]

In the MAC's-It car an educated guess for the chief mechanic identification would be the car builder Jack Hoare.

Edited by nexfast, 15 November 2015 - 21:13.

[ThursdayCar]

Thanks Nexfast, I will have a look into that, sound promising!

Edited by ThursdayCar, 15 November 2015 - 22:20.

[ThursdayCar]

...in fact, just searching for Jack Hoare - he is referenced in another post about another MAC car, so I think you may well be right:

 

 

"And don't forget Jack Hoare's "Mac's It Spl." four Rotax engined 4WD Can-Am car"

 

[from: http://forums.autosp...gined-speedcar/]

 

This 4WB car features in some detail in a wonderful book I bought last week, by the way, by Model Factory Hiro, called 'Can Am 1970 Part 2'. Highly recommended!

[Dave Ware]

There is no such thing as "enough" or "too much" Can-Am.

 

Dave

[raceannouncer2003]

There is a rear view of the 1965 Heimrath McLaren if you click on 1965 at this link:

 

http://www.autocours...ile=photos.html

 

Vince H.

[ThursdayCar]

@ Dave: Excellent point, well made!

@ Vince: Got that one (it is also used on Racingsportscars.com) - thanks though, keep em coming!

 

Soooo.... updated SitRep.... I still need to solve:

Edited by ThursdayCar, 16 November 2015 - 16:59.

[ThursdayCar]

Now, strictly speaking I am wandering dangerously off-course here, this next car being a 1972 racer.

 

Anyone heard of the DeBrecht, Bob Klempel-guided McLaren M1C missile?

Here's a few images I've managed to find. Batman doesn't have a thing on this beast.

Not sure if the wing is a wing, or an air brake but it sure makes interesting viewing.

 

Does anyone know what the decal in front of the rear wheels could be?

It has the outline of a lemon (on the trailer, you can clearly see it behind the trailer's wheel arch, but it's emtpy inside the outline).

On the track shots you can just about make out that there's a red roundel-shape decal placed inside it. It is not the SCCA roundel... is it the CASC roundel?

 

On Flickr, Bob's magic-McLaren outfit is rather unkindly referred to as "A very low-budget team at the Mosport Can-Am in June, 1972"  ...so let's show him and the late Edward DeBrecht some love, here!

 

 

 

Edited by ThursdayCar, 16 November 2015 - 16:59.

[D28]

ThursdayCar:

I've found 2 images of Heimrath's 1st and 2nd McLaren, but can't for the life of me post them here.

They are in the Vintage Racer May 2011 a pdf file.this is the pub of VARCA  Vintage Automobile Racing Association of Canada. You may google it and download it easily, or maybe you have seen it already.

 

The red #39 (traditional Heimrath number) is a slightly different shot than the one you posted.Livery is also different, I take it to be his 1966 car, still Powered by Ford.

[ThursdayCar]

Thanks D28 - found it! http://varac.ca/vara...-2011.pdf 

[E1pix]

Surely Bob Klempel's rear wing was to make up for competing against a half-dozen-years' advancements in aero. It being flattened for the trailer ride says a lot! 

 

I saw it run and yes, it was "low budget." But in many ways I had equal admiration for those guys: they tried hard, filled fields, and had the very same dreams as anyone wearing Nomex.

 

And it's sure fun here to see many cars unseen for a really long time! 

Edited by E1pix, 16 November 2015 - 17:49.

[ThursdayCar]

I am no aero-expert but surely above 120mph that size wing behind the rear axle is going to lift the nose clean off the tarmac... not even the little tea tray wing on top of the nose is going to stop that from happening!

Scary thought indeed - and in fact something I understand used to happen in '72 / '73 Can Am?

[E1pix]

Denny and Mark would have concurred. 

[D28]

Ask Jackie Oliver. I witnessed his dramatic flight in the Autocoast Ti22, at St Jpvite 1970. The car was so high he should have filed a flight plan. The car was destroyed, but Oliver came walking along the track in a few minutes carrying his helmet. I don't know if he even got checked out by the medical staff, things were different then. Part of the problem was a hump at the top of the back straight; don't know if that ever got shaved off, or if it is still there.. Track is still used for vintage racing and private track days.

[E1pix]

Seems Donohue's and Hulme's flights were also more from hilltops than rear downforce.

Probably a little of both, though...

[JacnGille]

Seems Donohue's and Hulme's flights were also more from hilltops than rear downforce.

Mark's wasn't so much a hilltop issue but  the rear bodywork parting ways with the rest of the car. Right?

[E1pix]

Sounds familiar, think that's right.

[D28]

Looking again at  The Unfair Advantage,  Donohue says that the real culprit was 2 missing pins from the rear bodywork. The whole tail section came off at the top of the hill at Road Atlanta, but he wasn't driving hard, still warming up with some practice laps. His mechanic admitted to the human error. The car was completely destroyed, and Domohue was most fortunate to escape with leg injuries.

[E1pix]

Yep, recall that now. Thanks.

Denny's crash is at 2:53 on this home movie, but doesn't tell us much...:
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=zqWCYwDsMIA

It does seem air getting under the car played a part, but sans my books and archives I'm saying nothing. ;-)

Edited by E1pix, 17 November 2015 - 03:30.

[ThursdayCar]

Detaching bodywork, scary stuff - Bruce wasn't so lucky...

Plenty of Le Mans cars went airborn in the past 20 years from air getting under the nose.

Some drivers were very lucky... others, like Michele Alboreto, unfortunately not...

[B Squared]

Looking again at  The Unfair Advantage,  Donohue says that the real culprit was 2 missing pins from the rear bodywork. The whole tail section came off at the top of the hill at Road Atlanta, but he wasn't driving hard, still warming up with some practice laps. His mechanic admitted to the human error. The car was completely destroyed, and Domohue was most fortunate to escape with leg injuries.

Michael Argetsinger's Mark Donohue: Technical Excellence At Speed covers this incident in detail also and loose bodywork was indeed the culprit.

[JacnGille]

Domohue was most fortunate to escape with leg injuries.

And his nurse as his new wife.

[B Squared]

And his nurse as his new wife.

Incorrect; Eden White was an Atlanta socialite/model that first met Mark through a mutual friend while convalescing from his Road Atlanta accident.

Edited by B Squared, 17 November 2015 - 16:15.

[JacnGille]

Incorrect; Eden White was an Atlanta socialite/model that first met Mark through a mutual friend while convalescing from his Road Atlanta accident.

Went to the "memory well" one too many times.

[E1pix]

You, too?

[ThursdayCar]

Soooo... I've cracked it!! 

 

Well, one of the outstanding queries anyway...

 

I had been trying to find out, as you gentlemen experts may recall, what the text was on the yellow decal, next to REDeX:

 

(Ignore exhausts comment)

 

Then I remembered what was on the other side of this car:

 

 

What is on the yellow decals is a white version of the Red Stallion (Service Station Supplies) logo methinks! 

 

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