3993 replies to this topic

[CPR]

Surprisingly poor race pace. Tires didn't seem to last very well at all.

 

On the positive side, both cars got to the end and we didn't get lapped.

[rabbitleader]

A fair reflection where McLaren Honda currently are, behind Mercedes, Ferrari, Red bull, Williams, Toro Rosso.

Edited by rabbitleader, 17 April 2016 - 07:48.

[ElDictatore]

chhatra, on 17 Apr 2016 - 07:45, said:

IMO as soon as the team figure out why the car is so hard on the tires, they should switch focus to next year.

 

Might be a engine problem. Driveability and all.

[f1rules]

Come on Honda, deliver the big step so mclaren can deliver with more df

[rabbitleader]

This race result suggests McLaren Honda are still outside Q3, being only 6th fastest team.

[sanchez854]

Car was slow, that is all.

Next race please.

[aray]

CPR, on 17 Apr 2016 - 07:47, said:

Surprisingly poor race pace. Tires didn't seem to last very well at all.

 

On the positive side, both cars got to the end and we didn't get lapped.

Rosberg was almost behind Button,that's effectively being lapped.

[chhatra]

f1rules, on 17 Apr 2016 - 07:48, said:

Come on Honda, deliver the big step so mclaren can deliver with more df

For all we know the Pirelli tire pressures are probably giving McLaren more headaches than others.

They were just slow. There is probably 0.7-0.8s in the engine and the rest of the 2s gap is all chassis and aero.

With a more powerful engine they could in theory run better downforce but it's all guesswork at the moment.

[ElDictatore]

rabbitleader, on 17 Apr 2016 - 07:50, said:

This race result suggests McLaren Honda are still outside Q3, being only 6th fastest team.

 

Eh it looks like they have one lap pace in Quali but lack race pace.

[onewingedangel]

The car is at least racing with the others, every step forward should move the team up the grid.

 

Looks like FOM going after McLaren sponsors again with Chandon.

Edited by onewingedangel, 17 April 2016 - 07:59.

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

I think our tire management is not good. I don't know if it is the result of running compromised setup or it has something to do with the chassis or powerunit driveability.

 

Or

 

Maybe our tire management is as good as Mercedes. Jenson Button's supersoft tires didn't last more than 6 laps at the end like Mercedes were telling.

 

Anyway very happy with the reliability. In a circuit that doesn't suit us that much,12th & 13th was a the real benchmark considering all the teams on the grid finished the race with their cars.

Edited by RYARLE, 17 April 2016 - 08:07.

[Rudex]

rabbitleader, on 17 Apr 2016 - 07:47, said:

A fair reflection where McLaren Honda currently are, behind Mercedes, Ferrari, Red bull, Williams, Toro Rosso.

 

That is the crude reality!.

We can see the last stint with Alo and Sainz with free air and same tire in similar time. Around 0.4-0.6s off. Today the pace is where they finished.

1.Mercedes

2.Ferrari

3.Red bull

4.Williams

5.Toro Rosso

6.Mclaren/FI very similar pace.

 

No matter the strategy I believe they never would be inside top 10.

[Quickshifter]

Only in qualifying the car looks decently competitive in terms of straight line performance but in the race situation the lack of top end performance from the engine was glaringly evident. Tire wear is an issue everyone knew about and it was there to see.

Positives

Both cars finishing.

Alonso finishing the race proves his fitness.

Not getting lapped.

Thr car has one lap pace but need improvements in race pace.

Edited by Quickshifter, 17 April 2016 - 08:02.

[AlexS]

RYARLE, on 17 Apr 2016 - 07:58, said:

 

In a circuit that doesn't suit us that much,12th & 13th was a the real benchmark considering all the teams on the grid finished the race with their cars.

 

Mclaren benefited from from post safety car start positions that would not happen if the start was without trouble.

 

 

 

Edit: they were not lapped because there wasn't any fight at front.

Edited by AlexS, 17 April 2016 - 08:03.

[nosecone]

chhatra, on 17 Apr 2016 - 07:45, said:

IMO as soon as the team figure out why the car is so hard on the tires, they should switch focus to next year.

 

As soon as the rules for 2017 are fixed they really should do that, yes.

[vista]

Quickshifter, on 17 Apr 2016 - 08:01, said:

Only in qualifying the car looks decently competitive in terms of straight line performance but in the race situation the lack of top end performance from the engine was glaringly evident. Tire wear is an issue everyone knew about and it was there to see.

Positives

Both cars finishing.

Alonso finishing the race proves his fitness.

Not getting lapped.

Thr car has one lap pace but need improvements in race pace.

 

Yeah, good sum up. I believe fuel efficiency and tyre performance is their two main weaknesses in the race.

[Fedcup]

Rudex, on 17 Apr 2016 - 07:58, said:

That is the crude reality!.
We can see the last stint with Alo and Sainz with free air and same tire in similar time. Around 0.4-0.6s off. Today the pace is where they finished.
1.Mercedes
2.Ferrari
3.Red bull
4.Williams
5.Toro Rosso
6.Mclaren/FI very similar pace.

No matter the strategy I believe they never would be inside top 10.

It proves once again what a performance Stoffel delivered. Bring him in and let the team grow with him! Fresh blood can stimulate a team.

[Quickshifter]

McLaren Honda needed a race where both cars finished without issues to see where they stand in terms of race pace, fuel consumption and tire wear. Today's data is going to be invaluable both for McLaren and Honda to bring the upgrades to get on top of the issues.

[Quickshifter]

Fedcup, on 17 Apr 2016 - 08:06, said:

It proves once again what a performance Stoffel delivered. Bring him in and let the team grow with him! Fresh blood can stimulate a team.

Car is the issue not the drivers

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

AlexS, on 17 Apr 2016 - 08:02, said:

Mclaren benefited from from post safety car start positions that would not happen if the start was without trouble.

 

 

 

Edit: they were not lapped because there wasn't any fight at front.

Actually it is debatable because some cars did benefit but some cars didn't. IMO in the end the existence pace of the cars sort out the grid back to it's normal position despite having the safety car.

 

To be lapped or not is not important. Mercedes and Ferrari could have done it anyway.

Edited by RYARLE, 17 April 2016 - 08:12.

[Paul Parker]

Fedcup, on 17 Apr 2016 - 08:06, said:

It proves once again what a performance Stoffel delivered. Bring him in and let the team grow with him! Fresh blood can stimulate a team.

 

Nothing wrong with the drivers, it is the car and too often strategy.

[krumpli12]

Fedcup, on 17 Apr 2016 - 08:06, said:

It proves once again what a performance Stoffel delivered. Bring him in and let the team grow with him! Fresh blood can stimulate a team.

 

You are surely aware of the fact that if Jenson's car hadn't broken down he would have finished in front of Stoffel...?

[CPR]

Quali pace seemed better than at Bahrain but race pace was worse. Rather curious.

[pusko]

Disappointed...a lot. It's like the light at the end of the tunnel is fading. Alo was nowhere the whole race. But at least had an eventful first stint. I'm sad...

[aljaxon]

Midfield now as opposed to bringing up the rear like last year
But I think we all expected/hoped for more
Let's hope they can sort out the fuel economy and be able to turn the wick up a bit more
All last year's data gathering was a waste
What's the point of setting a car up to a motor that's akin to a moped engine?
So they are back at square one trying to work with the extra power
And hopefully a lot more power to come
If not it's going to be another full year write off
Looking at buttons hunger today it's such a waste of his and Alonso's talent in what could be their final year

[Lights]

Fedcup, on 17 Apr 2016 - 08:06, said:

It proves once again what a performance Stoffel delivered. Bring him in and let the team grow with him! Fresh blood can stimulate a team.

 

Button being ahead and faster than Stoffel in Bahrain, with Boullier saying Button was on course for P7, only proves that McLaren performed better in Bahrain. They were also helped by some retirements there, while in China there was a 100% finishing rate.

[realracer200]

Once again most forumers here were wrong with their race predictions.

[krumpli12]

aljaxon, on 17 Apr 2016 - 08:15, said:

Looking at buttons hunger today it's such a waste of his and Alonso's talent in what could be their final year

 

Fernando has a contract for 2017 which according to Dennis is bulletproof Jenson does not, but I wouldn't be surprised at all, if they keep him as they seem to like to work with him. 

[Rudex]

McLaren need to improve chassis and tyre management. The engine is not only the main problem.

Look at Renault VS Redbull with the same engine. Amazing Redbull chassis.

 

The positive way, if they get 0.5s improvement soon. They would be figthing with William and ToroRosso .

Edited by Rudex, 17 April 2016 - 08:21.

[IamFasterthanU]

Seems like the deployment is still some way off other teams and as a consequence still lot of fuel saving has to be done. Don't agree with the notion that only 0.7-0.8 sec is down to the engine, on an average it looks to be much more greater than that. Also, the chassis is not that good but on an average engine (taking into account fuel saving etc.) is still way way off as compared to even Renault.

[Fedcup]

krumpli12, on 17 Apr 2016 - 08:12, said:

You are surely aware of the fact that if Jenson's car hadn't broken down he would have finished in front of Stoffel...?

I won't be that sure about that

[SamH123]

Button was saying on Sky he *hopes* their strategy was wrong otherwise Mclaren are not quick enough for points with no retirements

[krumpli12]

Fedcup, on 17 Apr 2016 - 08:31, said:

I won't be that sure about that

 

 

He was faster then Stoffel during the race and he was in a better position when he had to retire. But as you wish.

[PARAZAR]

Fedcup, on 17 Apr 2016 - 08:31, said:

I won't be that sure about that

He was faster and in front. Alonso said as much.

[Fedcup]

Lights, on 17 Apr 2016 - 08:15, said:

Button being ahead and faster than Stoffel in Bahrain, with Boullier saying Button was on course for P7, only proves that McLaren performed better in Bahrain. They were also helped by some retirements there, while in China there was a 100% finishing rate.

All commercial talk. They are always telling about P7. Just like yesterday. At a certain punt today Fernando was third. Would his car have broken at that moment he would tell he could have finished on the podium. The facts are that Stoffel is the only one who has scored a point with limited prep time.
For a team as McLaren it would make perfect sense to continue with him an grow the next years.
There are lot of examples of teams with new talents who became big again.
But probably they will stay with Alonso and Button next year. Nothing against Great guys. But it's time to go on and build a new chapter.

[Fedcup]

PARAZAR, on 17 Apr 2016 - 08:38, said:

He was faster and in front. Alonso said as much.

Sure Alonso confirmed. Both were scared about the performance of this rookie. He still remains a concurrent of their respective place

[DeKnyff]

Fedcup, on 17 Apr 2016 - 08:06, said:

It proves once again what a performance Stoffel delivered. Bring him in and let the team grow with him! Fresh blood can stimulate a team.

 

Factor in Vettel's and Sainz's DNFs at Bahrein and you get the same 12th position that Alonso got today. Also, remember that Jenson was ahead of Stoffel when he retired. I don't think drivers are the problem.

[Lights]

Fedcup, on 17 Apr 2016 - 08:39, said:

All commercial talk. They are always telling about P7. Just like yesterday. At a certain punt today Fernando was third. Would his car have broken at that moment he would tell he could have finished on the podium. The facts are that Stoffel is the only one who has scored a point with limited prep time.
For a team as McLaren it would make perfect sense to continue with him an grow the next years.
There are lot of examples of teams with new talents who became big again.
But probably they will stay with Alonso and Button next year. Nothing against Great guys. But it's time to go on and build a new chapter.

 

Fernando was third because he didn't pit after 4 laps while almost everybody else did because of the SC, so no he wouldn't say what you claim. Button was on course for 7th without it.

[StevieRay]

Well, three races and one single point. Not what I hoped for, even being pessimistic about their progress.

[Clrnc]

They have one lap pace but don't have race pace because they burn their tyres too fast. We have all said this the past 2 races and nothing has changed. Still a lot of work to be done by both the team and Honda. 

[Petroltorque]

Relatively poor race. It's just too easy to lump all the problems at Honda's door. It's looking more and more like a Chassis balance issue. There is just no evidence of the Honda PU being plagued with driveability issues. That's just wild speculation. The software modulation on these PU's means the most recent iterations have ironed out these issues. Nor do I think it's about finding more power, since that power means nothing if it's not completely transferred to the road. The qualifying mode is rapidly becoming a red herring as well since each engine can only run a limited number of laps in that format before it's irrevocably damaged.

Edited by Petroltorque, 17 April 2016 - 09:42.

[chhatra]

No retirements today and the cars finished where they qualified.

Finally got a race where both drivers finished and we have seen clear as day where the car stands at the moment. HAAS had issues with tire pressures so they could potentially be ahead next race.

5-6th quickest in Qualy and 6-7th in the race.

Tire management is poor but even at the start of each stint on fresh tires the car didn't have to pace to keep up.

They need 0.5 seconds to challenge for points each race.

[IamFasterthanU]

Fedcup, on 17 Apr 2016 - 08:40, said:

Sure Alonso confirmed. Both were scared about the performance of this rookie. He still remains a concurrent of their respective place

 

Lol hope you are being sarcastic here. In Bahrain, Sainz had issues and vettel had retired from the race (and even FI had a pretty bad weekend), so even there vandoorne wouldn't have finished above 12th. Problem is with the car and more so with the engine, changing drivers won't help.

[baddog]

bags of power on the straights though, whatever else is going on

[AlexS]

chhatra, on 17 Apr 2016 - 08:50, said:

No retirements today and the cars finished where they qualified.

Finally got a race where both drivers finished and we have seen clear as day where the car stands at the moment. HAAS had issues with tire pressures so they could potentially be ahead next race.

5-6th quickest in Qualy and 6-7th in the race.

Tire management is poor but even at the start of each stint on fresh tires the car didn't have to pace to keep up.

They need 0.5 seconds to challenge for points each race.

 

Finally not a delusional post.

[FrontWing]

chhatra, on 17 Apr 2016 - 08:50, said:

No retirements today and the cars finished where they qualified.

Finally got a race where both drivers finished and we have seen clear as day where the car stands at the moment. HAAS had issues with tire pressures so they could potentially be ahead next race.

5-6th quickest in Qualy and 6-7th in the race.

Tire management is poor but even at the start of each stint on fresh tires the car didn't have to pace to keep up.

They need 0.5 seconds to challenge for points each race.

Button said he destroyed the options in a couple laps during the final stint. The car eats tyres for breakfast atm, there are no positives to take from today. They are one of the teams seriously struggling with the tyre pressures. Hopefully it's a setup issue and not an inherent flaw a la Merc 2012-2013.

Edited by FrontWing, 17 April 2016 - 09:07.

[FrontWing]

AlexS, on 17 Apr 2016 - 09:04, said:

Finally not a delusional post.

Haha, Quickshifter will post one soon and I'll start to think things aren't that bad, until the next dose of reality at the next race.

Edited by FrontWing, 17 April 2016 - 09:11.

[igoru]

Fedcup, on 17 Apr 2016 - 08:40, said:

Sure Alonso confirmed. Both were scared about the performance of this rookie. He still remains a concurrent of their respective place

Post of decade!

[DeKnyff]

Quickshifter, thanks for your positive spirit, but I'm afraid you're way too optimistical (see my comments in red):

 

Quickshifter, on 17 Apr 2016 - 08:01, said:

Only in qualifying the car looks decently competitive in terms of straight line performance but in the race situation the lack of top end performance from the engine was glaringly evident. Tire wear is an issue everyone knew about and it was there to see.

Positives

Both cars finishing. That was already achieved in the second half of 2015

Alonso finishing the race proves his fitness. Well, OK, but at the end of the day he had only a broken rib, so no big surprise

Not getting lapped. Had the race lasted one more lap, at least one car would have been lapped. In fact, if it wasn't for the safety car, probably both cars would have been lapped

Thr car has one lap pace but need improvements in race pace. Race pace is what really counts. Still, I'm not sure the car has one lap pace.

 

I'm really disappointed about McLaren performance today. As someone pointed out in a previous post, both cars finished nearly 15 secs off the 10th place.

 

Well, the McLaren-Honda project is well into his second year (or third year since the partnership was signed) and still unable to make to Q3 or finish in the points on merit. Surely not what McLaren, Honda, Alonso or Button expected two years ago...

[GrumpyYoungMan]

realracer200, on 04 Apr 2016 - 09:02, said:

For more than a season i was constantly reading in various forums that Mercedes' advantage was due to the power unit. Now all of a sudden it's the chassis.

Its the whole package the PU chassis are designed as one and both sides make changes to accommodate the best overall solution