2489 replies to this topic

[CountDooku]

kvyatfan, on 19 Mar 2016 - 13:08, said:

The current attempt is a reverse handicap. If you're slow you get less attempts, and if you're fast you get to race yourself and showboat a little. Hamilton really ate it up, 'You just have to outdo your last time.'

Actually it's worse than that. If you are slow you get few attempts yes, but if you are fast you only need the one attempt. The losers are the fans.

[maverick69]

I'm watching it again.... but more awake. It really, really sucks.

 

[Riverside]

The only thing worse than today was single car single lap Q in 2003 .......

 

 #$hite

[JHSingo]

Risil, on 19 Mar 2016 - 12:27, said:

Why are F1's participants and stakeholders competing to see who can slag off their sport the most?

How is any of this supposed to make me want to get up at 5am and watch the race tomorrow?

 

I'm glad they are. At least they aren't so totally stupid to say that qualifying was great.

[chessycat]

Lone, on 19 Mar 2016 - 12:24, said:

See you tomorrrow!

Sure... but... do not tell anibody 

[Risil]

Actually I'd have preferred it if they were defending the indefensible. Didn't they vote for it last month?

[jestaudio]

Thought it was ok ish with reservations, so undecided at the mo

[sabjit]

I expect C4 to be positive about it. I dont think they want to bash the sport in their first airing.

[FLB]

I kept thinking 'What would Ayrton Senna da Silva have to say about it?'. I think we would have wound up with a press conference like Estoril in 1992, i.e. one for the ages.

[MinT]

I don't understand these people saying Q1 and Q2 were okay

 

If you actually watch it back both those sessions were pretty much like the last in that the majority of the positions were decided with the 90 sec countdown going on while they sat in the pits - I think only 1 car or 2 cars actually was on track and improved their position whilst being in the 90 sec drop zone.

 

How does F1 continue to shoot itself in the foot.

 

Time for the old guard to step aside and let some younger, sharper minds take the helm.

[Paco]

Teams should have zero input on anything. Drivers and a separate group 100% unbiased to the teams should run it... Or a 1 man dictatorship. Teams by consensus will always ruin the sport. You can't have majority or 100% approval for anything good.

[maverick69]

At the end of the day - if you want to mix up the grid, then pull the names out of a farkin' hat. At least it's random. Probably unfair in some cases at critical times - but random.

 

This is bollocks of the highest order.

 

Once again. F1 going with half measures - and cocking it up for the fans.........

[superden]

MinT, on 19 Mar 2016 - 13:25, said:

Time for the old guard to step aside and let some younger, sharper minds take the helm.

Oh FFS ... age has nothing to do with it. This mess is about control, greed and stupidity. All of which afflictions have absolutely no respect for age. Fools are fools, both young and old.

Edited by superden, 19 March 2016 - 13:36.

[onewingedangel]

The new format just didn't work. Let's go back to the old system from Bahrain onwards.

 

Anyway, a mixed grid is not the key to great races, close competition is.

[maverick69]

FLB, on 19 Mar 2016 - 13:23, said:

I kept thinking 'What would Ayrton Senna da Silva have to say about it?'. I think we would have wound up with a press conference like Estoril in 1992, i.e. one for the ages.

 

Senna was no angel on track - but I reckon he would have blown a gasket....... even if he was in front. I'd like to know what the other great drivers of that era, Mansell, Prost and Piquet think of this.

[Risil]

maverick69, on 19 Mar 2016 - 13:35, said:

Senna was no angel on track - but I reckon he would have blown a gasket....... even if he was in front. I'd like to know what the other great drivers of that era, Mansell, Prost and Piquet think of this.

What does Niki Lauda think? Oh, hang on.

[Gorma]

The worst thing is that they'll most likely try to "fix" the current system instead of dropping it completely.

[Marklar]

Riverside, on 19 Mar 2016 - 13:13, said:

The only thing worse than today was single car single lap Q in 2003 .......

 

 #$hite

That's the choice between the devil and the deep blue sea   

[pdac]

onewingedangel, on 19 Mar 2016 - 13:34, said:

The new format just didn't work. Let's go back to the old system from Bahrain onwards.

 

 

Oh, I was kind of looking forward to what a mess it would be in Monaco

[pdac]

Gorma, on 19 Mar 2016 - 13:39, said:

The worst thing is that they'll most likely try to "fix" the current system instead of dropping it completely.

 

Yep, they'll probably just eliminate 2 cars at a time every 180 seconds.

[jcbc3]

[djparky]

What a load of crap, didn't understand what was going on. Utterly pointless waste o time. Qualifying worked fine before - go back to the old system

[Rjpscr]

A JOKE! they better revert back to the old format starting round 2!

[TheRacingElf]

Gorma, on 19 Mar 2016 - 13:39, said:

The worst thing is that they'll most likely try to "fix" the current system instead of dropping it completely.

That's what I fear, band-aiding the band-aid of the band-aid.

[Paul Parker]

Thank God for Martin Brundle, the only media pundit to be honest, the rest of them were trying to make excuses for this nonsense, give it more time etc..

 

Apparently the organisers wanted this according to EB, question is what was wrong with the established format, answer nothing. Meanwhile spectators and viewers are short changed, let alone the teams, the elimination timing was self evidently impractical and overly punitive, the whole thing doesn't work at any level.

 

It was a pretty good example of how to further undermine F1 which already has problems with falling attendance and viewers, let alone yet another MB 1/2 on the grid.

 

Maximum fail.

[Hati]

For anybody that has glorified memories of old 60 minute qualifying: You only remember the highlights, not the countless hours of boredom waiting for the big boys to appear. And those highlights didn't happen because of the format, they happened because of more equal playing field. And most important thing is that probably every great fight for pole in past would have happened if rules would have been then same as they were last year.

[Mandzipop]

Risil, on 19 Mar 2016 - 12:27, said:

Why are F1's participants and stakeholders competing to see who can slag off their sport the most?

How is any of this supposed to make me want to get up at 5am and watch the race tomorrow?

 

At least it's more interesting than the quali sessions were.

[stewie]

I'm watching the 'highlights' now, what a total dud.

[l8apex]

I want the time I spent watching qualifying back.  What a complete waste.  

 

I should have slept in.

[jondon]

Edited by Risil, 19 March 2016 - 14:03.

[Pete_f1]

I liked it until the last bit when everyone got out instead of finishing the session.

[PlatenGlass]

I thought it was really good actually. Just what we need.

Only joking. It was awful. But what makes it worse is that it was entirely predictable that it was going to be awful.

[superden]

Hati, on 19 Mar 2016 - 13:52, said:

For anybody that has glorified memories of old 60 minute qualifying: You only remember the highlights, not the countless hours of boredom waiting for the big boys to appear. And those highlights didn't happen because of the format, they happened because of more equal playing field. And most important thing is that probably every great fight for pole in past would have happened if rules would have been then same as they were last year.

I remember it warts and all and as both a fan watching on TV and at the track, I'd welcome it back with open arms. Mind you, I'd welcome drawing straws over this mess.

[Nemo1965]

Pete_f1, on 19 Mar 2016 - 13:57, said:

I liked it until the last bit when everyone got out instead of finishing the session.

 

Yeah. I understand now, wit three minutes to go, Ham and Ros could not change tyres and get back out again. A shame, there are some things about this new system. But I feel the driver that is last should always allow to finish his lap after the count-down is over.

 

Well, at least Bernie says something I agree with (that the new system is s..t

[Seanspeed]

I was expecting it to be bad. 

 

It was worse. 

 

Needs to be scrapped immediately.  I never want to see that again. 

Edited by Seanspeed, 19 March 2016 - 14:02.

[pdac]

If you want a mixed-up grid with plenty of cars on track, just do the following:

 

1. Divide the cars into 4 groups (5 or 6 cars per group) AT RANDOM

2. Each group runs in a 10-minute session

3. The top two in each session go through to a final 10-minute session

4. The others are positioned according to their times and their group number (i.e. group 1 end up in the last 3-4 places, group 2 in the next ones, etc)

5. The final 8 have a 'normal' session with their final order giving the top 8 places

 

Very random and lots of track action.

[CountDooku]

Watching an interview with Lewis on C4. This is actually a really good one where he speaks about the implemented/proposed changes, though he had a loopy suggestion to try different qually formats for the next 4 races.

[pdac]

Seanspeed, on 19 Mar 2016 - 14:02, said:

I was expecting it to be bad. 

 

It was worse. 

 

Needs to be scrapped immediately.  I never want to see that again. 

 

My feelings too.

[MasterOfCoin]

I was caught between watching the on track action and watching the timing elimination graphics, too busy for my liking.  

[pdac]

MasterOfCoin, on 19 Mar 2016 - 14:06, said:

I was caught between watching the on track action and watching the timing elimination graphics, too busy for my liking.  

 

I just stopped watching.

[ExFlagMan]

I think it bloody brilliant to spend all that time watching drivers sitting in their cars in the garages.  Such intense action in their eyes.

I guess it is easier for the TV crews - much easier than having to try and follow someone on a hot lap.

Did we actually see any of the fast laps - seem to recall lots of shots of cars deciding to abandon a lap rather than anyone actually pushing it.

[Marklar]

Horner: "It's not right, Lewis Hamilton could have waved his own flag! [Toto nods] Oh, we're agreeing on something?!"

 

[pdac]

ExFlagMan, on 19 Mar 2016 - 14:08, said:

I think it bloody brilliant to spend all that time watching drivers sitting in their cars in the garages.  Such intense action in their eyes.

I guess it is easier for the TV crews - much easier than having to try and follow someone on a hot lap.

Did we actually see any of the fast laps - seem to recall lots of shots of cars deciding to abandon a lap rather than anyone actually pushing it.

 

Ah, a positive - we can  see the drivers more

[P123]

CountDooku, on 19 Mar 2016 - 14:04, said:

Watching an interview with Lewis on C4. This is actually a really good one where he speaks about the implemented/proposed changes, though he had a loopy suggestion to try different qually formats for the next 4 races.

Either he has too much faith in the prats who came up with this format, or so little that he knows it's going to take a few iterations to get anything decent! I did agree with the rest of what he had to say though- particularly over the radio comms, all the settings, and data...

[Fastcake]

I thought I should actually watch it through completely first, and now I have I can confidently say this format is colossally awful. I can't see any redeeming features, there's no dual at the end, very few cars out when the countdown period begins, the 90 second countdown on the slowest car means there's not enough time for the second slowest car to set a time either so they're both out, and worse of all everyone just sits in the paddock because they can't go any faster.

It takes true talent to come up with a system as bad as aggregate qualifying, but they've managed to do it.

[Donkey]

George Costanza, on 19 Mar 2016 - 12:57, said:

maybe you forget the duels we had with that system.

 

Pole position was still settled in the last minute or two. 55 minutes of the session was just drivers cleaning the track for the last 5 minute shootout which is basically what we had up until last year anyway..

 

[oldclassiccar]

That was turgid viewing (TV highlights only admittedly), to think that many people paid good money to be trackside to watch that ...

 

RJ

[Option1]

Kucki, on 19 Mar 2016 - 09:37, said:

Oh I loved the 60 minutes 12 laps.

 

It was so simple, and a great atmosphere. 

 

It started off quiet. Calm befire the storm. After a couple of minutes the first backmarkers got out, additional TV time for them, you got to see a whole hotlap. The longer the session goes, the more cars got out. Suddenly one of the top guys goes, punches in a great lap time, goes back to the pits. His opponent grabbing his helmet in the Pits, goes out and gets him. Back into the pits, looking nervously, will he respond? Opponent goes out and responds again with a new great lap. All eyes on the other guy, will he be able to respond? Just a back and forth, back and forth slugfest, ending up in a huge brawl at the end of the session. With top drivers having to start from the midfield because they gambled to long, ran into traffic, didnt go out earlier.

 

It was genuine spectacular hotlapping. Cars who were bad in race trim, found an edge for qualy and vice versa.

 

The grid got mixed up naturally, simply because cars who waited to long ran into traffic at the end.

 

It was genuine, simple, pure, straightforward, while still mixing up the field.

Please stop talking sense!  This is F1, a sensible approach to things has no place here.

I'm sure the poison dwarf will get his way and the next 'exciting, mix up the field' qualifying will be his moronic reverse grid or ballast or medal or sprinklers or drivers wearing funny hats or drivers swapping cars or pink elephants and floaty butterflies.

 

Neil

[Racket]

I decided to watch it again after the mention of it being exciting in Q1 for some people, just to see if I missed something in the first watch. I did not. It seemed even worse seeing as I wasn't spending this time watching the clock and was now watching the track action, or lackthereof.

I've rarely seen anything as ill fitting an idea for a sport or championship than this. There is no way it makes sense with the current regulations and how the tires and fuel works in Formula 1 at the moment. Granted, some cars got their tactics wrong, sure, but it wouldn't lead to much more track action. If anything, more cars in Q1 would be safer waiting until about 12 minutes left, at least as far as Australia goes, with how long it takes to get round. At that point though, you're just shifting the placement of eliminations of drivers sitting in their pits further up the grid. It can't work.

The only excitement I could gather from Q1 was the scramble to get out at the beginning, and the push for the hotlaps after the chequered flag. The former would become less of an issue as it was mostly due to the team's inexperience with the rules and system and believing they really needed to get out straight away, so that would disappear. The latter we had already, only this time we had less cars to pay attention to as it was already we were lowered down to two cars battling instead of 4-5+. While not all of those 4-5 were always truly competitive and stood a real chance of getting out of Q1 on a normal day, it still allowed more cars in there for the occasional shock, which is where a lot of the excitement from Q1 has been garnered from when you'd get a random top lap from one of the cars at the back of the grid.

Along with lowering the percentages for the underdogs, we don't even get to see the likes of Kvyat try and recover from a bad time, or no time at all even, and have a "Will a big dog be able to put it together for one big lap at the flag?" moment as the chances of this have also been lowered as it's dependent on them being next-to-last in elimination, which won't tend to be the case as they'll generally be in that position due to a mistake that costs them many seconds rather than tenths.

You could probably patch it up into something better, by either regulating that you can't use the softest compound at all in Q1, which wouldn't help too much as while cars might be more inclined to be eliminated while they're out in the track, it would lead to the first few minutes being essentially meaningless running due to higher fuel loads in the run up to the elimination marks. Giving it chequered-flag rules where they can finish their hotlaps would be too confusing in the case of the likes of Spa where you would end up with position eliminations overlapping with each other. So there would be endless tinkering which would probably require different rules for each separate track.

With that said, this is the amount of change needed just to try and patch deciding 15th place up into being something of a TV event, without even considering how bad it is up in the further positions towards the business end of qualifying. That in itself points to how utterly pointless everything is. Even this longwinded post as a waste of your time to read has more reason to it than the system introduced.

I'm tired of F1 and its identity crisis at this point, they need to decide what they want to be and stop being a random smattering of regulatioons that have no business being in the same championship as each other other than to complicate and infuriate under the cover of trying to unnaturally create natural sporting spontaneity.

[smr]

Absolute farce.