175 replies to this topic

[Lee Nicolle]

Just read in local motorsport media that F1 has banned and then did a backflip on F1 drivers disposing of tear offs. Because the may get into brake and engine inlets.

But it appears that they have no alternative, the only way is too tape them to your helmet then have several tearoffs flapping against your helmet, hardly conducive to concentration. 

Even in dry races these are necesary, the inevitble film of oil  and grime from some cars blocks vision fairly quickly and when it is wet the spray would be a killer.

Again it seems F1 wishes to make something simple very hi tech and probably less efficient.

As for blocking inlets clearly they should have screens on them. All race tracks and especially parkland style such as most of the street  circuits have a huge range of debris, leaves, paper, sundry gravel and grass. Plus insects of all sizes from miniscule too about a foot across the wings. And lets not talk about birds!

As a long time racer I have always done this, dont bother with brake ducts but air and radiator intakes have had screens for 40 years. If a budget racer can do it so can they.

Probably another indication that F1 has lost the plot.

[Myrvold]

It have been postponed to Barcelona. They might figure out something "clever" by then.

[Jejking]

Don't forget about plastic bags floating over the surface on straights. This has got to be fixed somehow, but let's call this a very first world-esque issue.

[Lee Nicolle]

Yes, something that costs thousands of dollars and is probably less efficient.

Roller strips will work [Mud Eater] but they do fail,some dirt racers used them for a while but they were less than reliable. And if the come unravelled a metre or two of clear strip flapping behind the driver.

And there is that many buttons on the steering wheel and wires on the driver just more hindrance.

[DrProzac]

It seems that recently F1 rule makers smoke way to much crack.

Edited by DrProzac, 20 March 2016 - 12:14.

[EvilPhil II]

Perhaps they can have them park and place them in a recycling bin to emphasise F1's green intention and "spice up" the show.

Edited by EvilPhil II, 20 March 2016 - 12:40.

[BullHead]

I thought there had been this rule of sorts for some time now anyway, although not enforced as such and there as a 'guidance' ?

[mistareno]

I know this sounds stupid, but why don't they just install a small silicone rubber bin inside the cockpit. Near the steering wheel. It can have flaps on the top so once you push the tear off past the flaps it's retained.

 

Easy to use. Safe in a collision and easy to adapt.

 

Something sort of like the picture below (but with a bigger flaps and less gap)

 

Edited by mistareno, 20 March 2016 - 13:05.

[F1 Mike]

why not say in the rules they can tear them off but they have to be fully biodegradable?

 

technological progress

 

everyone wins

 

delay it 'til 2018 so they can be developed

[mistareno]

why not say in the rules they can tear them off but they have to be fully biodegradable?

 

technological progress

 

everyone wins

 

delay it 'til 2018 so they can be developed

 

Unless they biodegrade in 10 seconds it won't help blocked brake ducts and radiators...

[DrProzac]

I think that blocking ducts is better than drivers hiding their tearoffs in a cockpit bean while driving 200mph or having limited vision.

[Ali_G]

Just throw the bloody things into the cockpit.

Seems to be a theme in F1 lately to solve problems that don't exist but then ignore the fact that the series is going down the tubes.

[saudoso]

Are they banning trees too?

There's a lot of busy work going on, an incredible amount of silly or just plain wrong rulling. But no one will deal with the elephant in the room.

[chunder27]

Who on earth came up with this, have they ever driven an open wheel race car or a bike in a race?

 

Is there a reason why this was supposed to be an idea, is it a green thing?

 

If you race anything with an open cockpit, and you largely race in very hot countries you have the possibility of getting insects and stuff on your visor.

 

And that is disregarding the oil, rubber, water that F1 cars probably let go while they are running.

 

This is clearly a rule made by someone who has never even set foot in a race car or bike, yet somehow it passes all sorts of people and gets releases by the people invovled?

 

it beggars belief honestly

[Retrofly]

Is this a joke?

[Lone]

I'm glad that the people who are running the show is focusing on these important things rather than focusing on other less important things that make the sport interesting.

[Rinehart]

such a silly safety move considering that rubber is a far more common blocker of brake calipers. So what are they gonna do next, ban tyres????

[Mc_Silver]

This is getting ridiculous. 

[wrighty]

so it's not possible to design said inlets to be slightly less vulnerable to sucking things like tearoffs in? I'm not super-familiar with the rulebook but i assume there's a maximum surface or aperture area of inlet, so its feasible to make the item ever-so-slightly larger to provide the trade-off against a couple of skinny bars moulded across the aperture to provide a simple protective cage......yes i realise they might have to claw back that 0.00000001% of efficiency and they'll need 4 weeks of extra testing and two more engines.....but if it's a problem its better to prepare against the problem rather than make all the drivers carry the James Hunt 'damp rag' surely?

Edited by wrighty, 20 March 2016 - 17:25.

[DampMongoose]

Surprised F1 haven't suggested calling an end to the sport as a solution.

[Dolph]

 

As for blocking inlets clearly they should have screens on them.

 

As a long time racer I have always done this, dont bother with brake ducts but air and radiator intakes have had screens for 40 years. If a budget racer can do it so can they.

Probably another indication that F1 has lost the plot.

 

I don't think you understand the solution to the problem. And you are also in a major way underestimating the brainpower of the F1 team personnel. Furthermore, your reference to budget is laughable.

Edited by Dolph, 20 March 2016 - 19:13.

[Dolph]

Don't forget about plastic bags floating over the surface on straights. This has got to be fixed somehow, but let's call this a very first world-esque issue.

 

I recommend a shotgun rider in the safetycar hanging out the window with a butterfly net type of contraption. See first concept picture here:

 

[Donkey]

Vettel to debut steering wheel button activated helmet visor windscreen wiper in Barcelona. You heard it here first...

[Lee Nicolle]

I recommend a shotgun rider in the safetycar hanging out the window with a butterfly net type of contraption. See first concept picture here:

 

Hey, I have an idea, use that mesh to put a SCREEN on the intakes!

[BalanceUT]

How in the world did drivers manage before tear offs? 

[Kristian]

How in the world did drivers manage before tear offs? 

 

They just got on with it. 

 

[Lee Nicolle]

Goggles, Disposable 'gas' goggles, I have never used them but dirt racers  and some road racers used 6 or 8 and threw them off as they went in the same manner as tearoffs. Probably into the 80s. You can still get them, some Industrial places sell them. They save the lenses on welding or grinding goggles.

In that pic it looks as if Stirling only used one pair. His face is an illustration of the grime and crap that is still out there.

[charly0418]

I dont get why fans are mad at this. I mean it makes sense... causes less DNFs in the cars, why are you guys angry at this?

[chunder27]

Have you ever driven a race car in the rain or dirt? 

[Nonesuch]

I dont get why fans are mad at this.

 

Because after the inspired changes to qualifying return to 2015-style qualifying, and banning almost all a lot of subjects from the radio - and while we're at it let's not forget the exhilarating moderate changes being finalised as we speak postponed constantly for 2017, including ditching keeping DRS and moving to Michelin staying with Pirelli - it's not hard to be a little sceptical about the people cooking up the rules in F1.

Edited by Nonesuch, 21 March 2016 - 08:36.

[Dolph]

Because after the inspired changes to qualifying return to 2015-style qualifying, and banning almost all a lot of subjects from the radio - and while we're at it let's not forget the exhilarating moderate changes being finalised as we speak postponed constantly for 2017, including ditching keeping DRS and moving to Michelin staying with Pirelli - it's not hard to be a little sceptical about the people cooking up the rules in F1.

 

Man, you are asking the forumers to spend a lot of effort trying to read your post. How many will bother. Its too complex.

[Nonesuch]

Man, you are asking the forumers to spend a lot of effort trying to read your post. How many will bother. Its too complex.

 

If making the rules was easy, we could have a different qualifying format for every other race!

 

But all right, here's the short version: finding a better way of disposing tear-offs is fine, but the priorities of the rule makers are anything but.

[Clatter]

I dont get why fans are mad at this. I mean it makes sense... causes less DNFs in the cars, why are you guys angry at this?

How many DNFs have occurred because of this problem?

[Clatter]

so it's not possible to design said inlets to be slightly less vulnerable to sucking things like tearoffs in? I'm not super-familiar with the rulebook but i assume there's a maximum surface or aperture area of inlet, so its feasible to make the item ever-so-slightly larger to provide the trade-off against a couple of skinny bars moulded across the aperture to provide a simple protective cage......yes i realise they might have to claw back that 0.00000001% of efficiency and they'll need 4 weeks of extra testing and two more engines.....but if it's a problem its better to prepare against the problem rather than make all the drivers carry the James Hunt 'damp rag' surely?

I'm struggling to understand how your idea is a solution. It seems to me that it would just put the possible blockage further upstream.

[Fastcake]

How many DNFs have occurred because of this problem?

Alonso's retirement in Barcelona last year was caused by a visor tear off blocking the brake ducts. I presume there have also been other incidents for this rule to suddenly come to everyone's attention.

[Clatter]

Alonso's retirement in Barcelona last year was caused by a visor tear off blocking the brake ducts. I presume there have also been other incidents for this rule to suddenly come to everyone's attention.

There have been incidents in the past, but I think the numbers are extremely low. Maybe FAs crash was the catalyst, but why not have done something at the time? I don't remember much being said back then. And it really doesn't require a high tech solution so why a delay?

[muramasa]

last year Alonso had his race almost ruined by tearoff into brake at Hungary as well, he was saved by sc timing

 

at Spain 2015 EB said something shud be done about it in future, maybe Eric B has been pushing in the background

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/118916

 

it's only a good move, tearoff can always go into brake or radiator or airbox, same as stray nuts or tyres etc always pose dander to drivers.

(in addition plastic waste disposed in the wild is serious environmental threat as it never decompose)

[SophieB]

Alonso's retirement in Barcelona last year was caused by a visor tear off blocking the brake ducts. I presume there have also been other incidents for this rule to suddenly come to everyone's attention.

Kimi too, back in his Lotus days. I forget the race, though. Eric Boullier must feel those plastic strips are out to get him.

[Marklar]

Kimi too, back in his Lotus days. I forget the race, though. Eric Boullier must feel those plastic strips are out to get him.

Spa 2013

[balmybaldwin]

They need MTB tech: www.ripnroll.co.uk

[Talisman]

Just wait till we have curved canopies in F1. You think visors are hard to clean at least you can wipe it with a glove if tearoffs are banned.

[PlatenGlass]

Surprised F1 haven't suggested calling an end to the sport as a solution.

They've already done that. What we have now doesn't come close to being a sport!

[chunder27]

They are not a reason for retirement.

 

They would be if designers designed their cars and radiators to ONLY work if the car has a full and completely clear airflow, rather than making the rads a little larger to compensate perhaps?

 

Oh, did I just find the REAL cause of the problem.

 

You cannot ban tearoffs in open wheel racing, it is utterly preposterous.

[Kristian]

I'm surprised that helmet designers have not incorporated superhydrophobic coatings to their visors (and, indeed, the teams to the cars themselves maybe?). I think this must surely come in soon? 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia...ahydrophobicity

[Dolph]

They are not a reason for retirement.

 

They would be if designers designed their cars and radiators to ONLY work if the car has a full and completely clear airflow, rather than making the rads a little larger to compensate perhaps?

 

Oh, did I just find the REAL cause of the problem.

 

You cannot ban tearoffs in open wheel racing, it is utterly preposterous.

 

Yeah, YOUR ARE ZE KING OF REALZ PROBLEMZ!!! LEZ MAKE TOO LARGE RADIATORZ TO OVERCOMPENSATE FOR UNLIKELY PROBLEMS!!!
 

[BRG]

How in the world did drivers manage before tear offs? 

James Hunt, when commentating for the BBC, often mentioned how he kept a piece of cloth in the cockpit to wipe his visor.  But that's probably a bit too cheap and simple for F1 unless it was a cloth made of unobtainium thread..

[charly0418]

Have you ever driven a race car in the rain or dirt? 

 

they can still remove the tearoff inside the cockpit or in a pit stop

[Red17]

It seems that recently F1 rule makers smoke way to much crack.

Hopefully overdose will come soon.

[autosportfan]

Come on FIA, Bernie, F1strategy group clowns! It is time to stop this kind of circus acts!

[Alexandros]

I'm surprised that helmet designers have not incorporated superhydrophobic coatings to their visors (and, indeed, the teams to the cars themselves maybe?). I think this must surely come in soon? 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia...ahydrophobicity

 

Yeah, seems to be a no-brainer NOT to use it.

 

As for brake and airbox airducts, I think triangular/conical wire mesh protrusions would prevent a visor cover to stick to them.

Edited by Alexandros, 22 March 2016 - 02:05.