129 replies to this topic

[Enzo308]

lol; these people are out of control....

Formula One Declares War!
MARCH 23, 2016

If you’ve ever wanted concrete proof that the old men in charge of Formula One’s marketing department have lost touch with their core audience, look no further than the war currently being waged on RaceDepartment. Formula One itself have required RaceDepartment to remove an abundance of Formula One modifications and liveries from their website – for multiple titles. The sanctioning body has made it clear that Formula One – the world’s most prestigious auto racing series – has no place in sim racing, much to the dismay of F1’s most dedicated fans.

Over 30 pages of Formula One related mods for two officially licensed Codemasters titles, as well as Reiza Studio’s Automobilista, have been removed due to copyright claims from none other than the bitter ***** from Formula One themselves. While technically justified from a legal standpoint, as F1 does indeed own the rights to the cars and teams participating in their championship, everybody knows this move is a power tripping exercise on F1’s part. Sim Racers aren’t profiting off of these creations, and yet Formula One has essentially told diehard F1 fans to stop producing virtual artwork that acts as free publicity for the sport – a sport which at the moment is desperate for positive press.

[EightGear]

Original link: http://pretendraceca...e-declares-war/

[sabjit]

The OP is bugged. Half the text is off the end of the screen,

[superden]

I can't say anything beyond ...

[Marklar]

Suddenly F1 found the internet?

[TomNokoe]

Anybody remember BATRacer? Happened to them years ago.

[Araqiel]

Disgraceful. Maybe if they let the folks making the official game have a bit more access to the cars and a bit more freedom to replicate the sport as it is (they're really afraid of letting you do any real damage to the cars, for example), fewer people would turn to modding? Really though, this is just stupid, narrow-minded and ill-informed.

[GoldenColt]

F1 is saved.

[Jimisgod]

Anybody remember BATRacer? Happened to them years ago.

 

it honestly destroyed the game. Playing for "Sotul" and "Fierce Indians" and "McLewis" and "Bauber" is ridiculous. They haven't made a new F1 set since 2013.

 

http://batracer.com/-gc?f12013

[Nonesuch]

Given the fact that F1 is selling exclusive licenses to replicate the F1 series in games - to Codemasters - it's hardly a surprise that their legal team would attempt to stop alternative (and free) replications.

Websites like those mentioned have for years knowingly turned a blind eye to the obvious copyright problems that come with these creations.

 

It's a shame for the gamers - but the law seems to be firmly on the rightsholders' side on this.

Edited by Nonesuch, 24 March 2016 - 15:05.

[TomNokoe]

it honestly destroyed the game. Playing for "Sotul" and "Fierce Indians" and "McLewis" and "Bauber" is ridiculous. They haven't made a new F1 set since 2013.

http://batracer.com/-gc?f12013

Yep, ruined any shred of authenticity, I haven't been back since.

[Jimisgod]

Yep, ruined any shred of authenticity, I haven't been back since.

 

I wonder why they never just let the user make their own team and livery, because the game system was high enough quality to survive. It wouldn't necessarily be realism but it wouldn't be a complete mockery like the punny names are.

[Dolph]

This is directed to you, dear F1. I've been a fan for 26 years. I've been driving racing games on a PC ever since I was a kid.

 

During this time there have been few good F1 games and NO (ZERO, NADA) F1 games with historical cars with one exception (that was 20 years ago). The community is doing what you are failing to do for decades. What is the ****ing problem!?

 

Why would you ruin this all for us?

 

Tell you what, F1: I won't pay any money for a single piece of F1 merchandise, coverage, online content or anything else from no on. You do very little for the fans and you screw us over if we try to do smth ourselves. FU!

[LeClerc]

Entitlement at its finest 

 

If you want to use somebody else's IP or brand, even for non-profit purposes, you must obtain permission and/or licensing. Simple, really.

[Myrvold]

Anybody remember BATRacer? Happened to them years ago.

That was Ferrari.

And using PretendJourn...RaceCar as a proper source. It makes Daily Mail look like a very serious newspaper and makes Bernie look sane.

[Archer]

Once again they keep destroying the F1 image and fanbase. I've been doing simracing even before I watched a single F1 race. In fact, I started following F1 because I could start to understand and apreciate how hard was the real thing, and how much ill attention to detail was needed to be fast. I think that probably I'm not the only one that followed this route. The modders make a huge amount of work during months, and all that for free, it is F1 free adversising. Also it is a very closed world, no way an Assetto Corsa mod (just to put an example) would reduce the sells of the codemasters game, because codemasters F1 game is meant for a completely different kind of person that don't care about hardcore physics and complex setup work.

 

They are becoming so greedy that they are going to start to loose money.

Edited by Archer, 24 March 2016 - 17:04.

[Dolph]

Entitlement at its finest 

 

If you want to use somebody else's IP or brand, even for non-profit purposes, you must obtain permission and/or licensing. Simple, really.

 

LeClerc, I don't like your post. Entitlement??? I don't agree at all. Picture this hyptotheticl situation: there is 5000 people in the world who want to play a racing game with F1 cars from 1985. No such game is forthcoming for 20 years. They make their own mod in their commmunity to make it happen. Who's losing out!? No such game will ever be made. Its just F1 commercial rights holder not creating any value for the fans, not wanting to make such a game. At the same time they stop anyone from enjoying either. I mean really, F1 is such a mega revenue accumulator over the years and yet there isn't a decent F1 game about the 2015 season - just a really buggy rehash with aged graphics.

[jee]

LeClerc, I don't like your post. Entitlement??? I don't agree at all. Picture this hyptotheticl situation: there is 5000 people in the world who want to play a racing game with F1 cars from 1985. No such game is forthcoming for 20 years. They make their own mod in their commmunity to make it happen. Who's losing out!? No such game will ever be made. Its just F1 commercial rights holder not creating any value for the fans, not wanting to make such a game. At the same time they stop anyone from enjoying either. I mean really, F1 is such a mega revenue accumulator over the years and yet there isn't a decent F1 game about the 2015 season - just a really buggy rehash with aged graphics.

Do you have knowledge about trademarks? When they are aware of unauthorized use and do not object about it then they might lose the trademark for their brand.

[thegamer23]

Another bad move, congrats F1

[RedBaron]

Do you have knowledge about trademarks? When they are aware of unauthorized use and do not object about it then they might lose the trademark for their brand.

 

This.

 

As much as I sympathise with sim racers and I understand the points being made, the reality is Formula 1 has a brand to protect and they cannot authorise the use of their brand willy nilly.

 

I wouldn't be too disheartened anyway, while the mods and liveries may have disappeared from the main 'official' source I am sure torrent groups, underground groups and most likely other websites will pop up where you will be able to download these mods and liveries soon enough.

[johnmhinds]

Do you have knowledge about trademarks? When they are aware of unauthorized use and do not object about it then they might lose the trademark for their brand.

 

You wouldn't lose your trademark over some fan created content.

 

Besides which, these are old liveries, why would it matter if someone makes a BAR livery for a game, BAR doesn't even freaking exist anymore...

[Kucki]

There is a officially licensed Mclaren MP4-30 from 2015 in iRacing by the way.

 

Edited by Kucki, 24 March 2016 - 17:30.

[LeClerc]

LeClerc, I don't like your post. Entitlement??? I don't agree at all. Picture this hyptotheticl situation: there is 5000 people in the world who want to play a racing game with F1 cars from 1985. No such game is forthcoming for 20 years. They make their own mod in their commmunity to make it happen. Who's losing out!? No such game will ever be made. Its just F1 commercial rights holder not creating any value for the fans, not wanting to make such a game. At the same time they stop anyone from enjoying either. I mean really, F1 is such a mega revenue accumulator over the years and yet there isn't a decent F1 game about the 2015 season - just a really buggy rehash with aged graphics.

I'm certainly sympathetic regarding your wish to simrace historical cars. But under current law, it is not legally possible.

[Dolph]

I'm certainly sympathetic regarding your wish to simrace historical cars. But under current law, it is not legally possible.

 

 

Same thing with historic F1 races. Bernie has the tapes, but he will never show them. Say you want to watch an F1 race from 1991. There is almost no legal way to do this.

 

I don't understand why there couldn't be clause in the commercial agreement that for a reasonable amount of money I would be able to view historic races (buy a DVD, view online or smth similar). For ****s sake, Bernie is representing the commercial rights holder, but the FIA has an obligation towards the world, does it not!? I think the FIA has in part failed to takes its obligation towards one of the main stakeholders (the fans) into account when making contracts with Bernie and co.

 

How much would it cost to remaster all the historic F1 races and put them online!? Say 10 million euros? Isn't that a drop in the bucket for the commercial right holder!? + they'd have revenue inflows from then on...

Edited by Dolph, 24 March 2016 - 18:27.

[Tsarwash]

I'm certainly sympathetic regarding your wish to simrace historical cars. But under current law, it is not legally possible.

They can turn a blind eye or they can alienate 5000 hardcore F1 fans around the world ? They will NOT lose the rights to the branding if it is used in an obscure Sim game. I doubt that F1 owns the design or livery rights to the cars anyway. 

[LeClerc]

Same thing with historic F1 races. Bernie has the tapes, but he will never show them. Say you want to watch an F1 race from 1991. There is almost no legal way to do this.

 

I don't understand why there couldn't be clause in the commercial agreement that for a reasonable amount of money I would be able to view historic races (buy a DVD, view online or smth similar). For ****s sake, Bernie is representing the commercial rights holder, but the FIA has an obligation towards the world, does it not!? I think the FIA has in part failed to takes its obligation towards one of the main stakeholders (the fans) into account when making contracts with Bernie and co.

 

How much would it cost to remaster all the historic F1 races and put them online!? Say 10 million euros? Isn't that a drop in the bucket for the commercial right holder!? + they'd have revenue inflows from then on...

 

I'm with you, but you are banging your head against a wall. A very high and thick wall.

[danmills]

Kim Dot Com will save the day.

 

Theft and Copyright breaches are bad, but in these circumstances keeping games carrying on is only promoting the sport.

 

The owners are just killing it by doing this.

People might not be able to afford the latest 2016 F1 game, but if they can dream of 2016 on a 12 year old GP4, who exactly is it hurting?

They pay eachother millions and millions in sponsorship deals and exclusivity; yet these guys are essentially offering a better product, quicker updates, and for free.

If I were F1, I'd be looking at these hardcore fans, promoting their dedication and getting them to plug and work on the exclusive F1 rights to updating games.

For 1/1000th the price the likes of codemasters charge.

[Kucki]

Theres also the Lotus 79 from the 1978 season, and the Lotus 49 from 1967.

 

 

[Kucki]

Also, the official Williams FW31 from the 2009 season.

 

[STRFerrari4Ever]

Anybody remember BATRacer? Happened to them years ago.

 

Toro Rosso turned into Roro Torsso. BATRacer was an entertaining little game back in the day.

[ANF]

Suddenly F1 found the internet?

Just wait until they find the livery competition thread.

[LeClerc]

Kim Dot Com will save the day.

 

Theft and Copyright breaches are bad, but in these circumstances keeping games carrying on is only promoting the sport.

 

 

That reads like: "I steal from you, you won't miss it anyway, and honestly you'll thank me later" 

[Dolph]

There is a officially licensed Mclaren MP4-30 from 2015 in iRacing by the way.

 

 

A single car from 2015!? Oh boy, the sim racers are jumping through the roof in excitement.

 

[Dolph]

Just wait until they find the livery competition thread.

 

 

That's right. Exactly! Another fine example of unlawful use of the F1 name and think of all the god damn copyright infringements. I'm suprised the staff at autosport forums allow this kind of theft.

Edited by Dolph, 24 March 2016 - 20:03.

[TomNokoe]

Toro Rosso turned into Roro Torsso. BATRacer was an entertaining little game back in the day.

I was obsessed. Winning my first championship, happy happy days.

[Dolph]

Entitlement at its finest 

 

If you want to use somebody else's IP or brand, even for non-profit purposes, you must obtain permission and/or licensing. Simple, really.

 

LeClerc, I wouldn't want to attack you personnaly, but since you were very clear in your post I must point to the following times in very recent history where you have infringed copyright of others:

 

http://forums.autosp...dpost&p=7471215

http://forums.autosp...-4#entry7466682

http://forums.autosp...dpost&p=7455012

http://forums.autosp...dpost&p=7446428

http://forums.autosp...dpost&p=7434713

http://forums.autosp...20#entry7424984

 

I just stopped there, I'm sure there are a number of other instances.
 

 

Please tell me how on one hand you can present yourself as being on a high moral ground and condoning infringement of copyright. At the same time you are infringing copyright rather frequently yourself and I might guess don't think anything of it!? How does that all fit together?

[ANF]

There is a officially licensed Mclaren MP4-30 from 2015 in iRacing by the way.
 

And it's actually available? No deployment issues?!

[LeClerc]

I did so, knowing that I was infringing. Not claiming it to be my right.

 

Do you see the difference?

 

 

Edit: And I showed impeccable taste in my infringement 

Edited by LeClerc, 24 March 2016 - 20:24.

[boomn]

I did so, knowing that I was infringing. Not claiming it to be my right.

 

Do you see the difference?

 

 

Edit: And I showed impeccable taste in my infringement 

Most simracers, and especially those producing the cars and liveries, would say the same about their infringement.  That doesn't change the fact that they are frustrated to lose something they enjoyed, which is made all the worse by the opinion that FOM is doing it for short-sighted and stupid reasons.  Copyright holders are expected to make a reasonable effort to protect their property, and to many going after the very niche area of F1 sim racing is beyond just a reasonable measure

 

We all agree that it's stupid of FOM to go after every single fan video from a race weekend, right?  Even though we grudgingly agree they have the right

[Afterburner]

F1 is being like that stingy record company on YouTube that takes down any and all videos of one of its contracted bands.

[LeClerc]

Most simracers, and especially those producing the cars and liveries, would say the same about their infringement.  That doesn't change the fact that they are frustrated to lose something they enjoyed, which is made all the worse by the opinion that FOM is doing it for short-sighted and stupid reasons.  Copyright holders are expected to make a reasonable effort to protect their property, and to many going after the very niche area of F1 sim racing is beyond just a reasonable measure

 

We all agree that it's stupid of FOM to go after every single fan video from a race weekend, right?  Even though we grudgingly agree they have the right

 

I find it equally stupid and counterproductive, I'm just pointing out that they are exercising their right, and while that can be a nuisance, it is still their right. 

 

It's probably just one guy working from a basement office at place de la concorde who is causing all this fuzz anyway.

[Dolph]

I did so, knowing that I was infringing. Not claiming it to be my right.

 

Do you see the difference?

 

 

Edit: And I showed impeccable taste in my infringement 

 

No, I don't see the differences. Firstly, this talk of entitlement - it is BS. I do not feel entitled. I have been understanding of the fact that producing an F1 game with past seasons or some old F1 tracks might not be economically feasible. At the same time if it could be done by a niche groupd of fans for their own use - why not.

 

 

Secondly. Serve it which ever way you like - you are infringing copyright yourself and you are criticising others who do. That's double standards.

[LeClerc]

No, I don't see the differences. Firstly, this talk of entitlement - it is BS. I do not feel entitled. I have been understanding of the fact that producing an F1 game with past seasons or some old F1 tracks might not be economically feasible. At the same time if it could be done by a niche groupd of fans for their own use - why not.

 

 

Secondly. Serve it which ever way you like - you are infringing copyright yourself and you are criticising others who do. That's double standards.

 

No. If the rights holder takes any of the youtube videos down that I linked. You won't hear me crying about it! THAT is the difference!

[johnmhinds]

I find it equally stupid and counterproductive, I'm just pointing out that they are exercising their right, and while that can be a nuisance, it is still their right. 

 

It's probably just one guy working from a basement office at place de la concorde who is causing all this fuzz anyway.

 

Why waste money on lawyers to protect your intellectual property rights when you choose to not use that same intellectual property to make any products.

 

They are protecting something that is in effect worthless to them because they don't use it for anything.

[boomn]

LeClerc, that just makes you sound apathetic or emotionless.  These are things people are passionate about; of course they're going to vent. 

 

If Monza is really finished in F1, then it was within Bernie's rights to make that happen.  So we, and especially the Tifosi, should just shrug it off

[LeClerc]

Why waste money on lawyers to protect your intellectual property rights when you choose to not use that same intellectual property to make any products.

 

They are protecting something that is in effect worthless to them because they don't use it for anything.

 

Answer is: because they can.

 

If somebody came to me and wanted to buy my car, and I said "sure, that will be 437.399€" and they then said "No ****ing way": NO DEAL

 

If somebody came to me and wanted to buy my car, and I said "I'm not selling": NO DEAL

 

if somebody came to me and wanted to buy my car, and I said "I'm not selling", but they took it anyway, driving away while throwing money and good marketing at me: THEFT

 

I know it is frustrating beyond belief, but you can't have things just because you want them, and it is "a victimless crime". Sorry. 

 

You can take your chances, like everybody does, but ultimately if the rights holder says stop, it means just that.

[LeClerc]

LeClerc, that just makes you sound apathetic or emotionless.  These are things people are passionate about; of course they're going to vent. 

 

If Monza is really finished in F1, then it was within Bernie's rights to make that happen.  So we, and especially the Tifosi, should just shrug it off

 

hehe, I'm old and cynical

[johnmhinds]

Answer is: because they can.

 

If somebody came to me and wanted to buy my car, and I said "sure, that will be 437.399€" and they then said "No ****ing way": NO DEAL

 

If somebody came to me and wanted to buy my car, and I said "I'm not selling": NO DEAL

 

if somebody came to me and wanted to buy my car, and I said "I'm not selling", but they took it anyway, driving away while throwing money and good marketing at me: THEFT

 

I know it is frustrating beyond belief, but you can't have things just because you want them, and it is "a victimless crime". Sorry. 

 

You can take your chances, like everybody does, but ultimately if the rights holder says stop, it means just that.

 

I don't think fan made content like this should be treated as theft though.

 

As far as I know none of these car skins were being sold were they? And nobody was claiming the were official products made by FOM.

 

I know FOM own the rights to the imagery of the cars, but if a small group of fans want to get together and have some fun enjoying your product you shouldn't try and shut them down like this. You don't gain anything by doing it other than ill will.

[LeClerc]

I don't think fan made content like this should be treated as theft though.

 

On a personal level, I agree, and I have downloaded more mods than you can throw a stick at.

 

But, it is theft, strictly speaking.

 

I too, think that we should be able to celebrate the past and the glorious cars and and and, but the short of the long is, we cannot legally do so without the consent of the IP owner.

 

I feel we are all more or less on the same page, but arguing the legal details. I will bow out of this debate, since the laws governing this is not going to change any time soon.

[Mart280]

Bastedos, I raced at RD from about 2007 right up until last year and if I get my wheel out again they will be my first port of call, I raced in several seasons of their F1 championship and this move stinks, don't F1 understand lots of young kids get into these mods and will get into F1 as a result, they really do like shooting themselves in the foot.