107 replies to this topic

[RA2]

[Giz]

Do you have gifs from the other teams for comparison

[chhatra]

Was expecting some weird BS, but damn.

That's pretty explit, anyone else have any other shots?

[FullOppositeLock]

Makes sense no? Under breaking the wing will be pushed down less and less as speed decreases.

Edit: Also the car will "lean" forward, causing the rear to rise.

Edited by FullOppositeLock, 17 May 2016 - 17:05.

[Marklar]

Is this also cheating (from 2014)?



Or am I missing something?

[Jon83]

Oh I love the smell of a good conspiracy in the morning. 

 

(Ok it's evening where I am but who cares)

[FullOppositeLock]

Is this also cheating (from 2014)?



Or am I missing something?

That looks more like a badly fitted/failing rear wing to me.

[Lotus53B]

It's wobbling, the ferrari wing appears to be snapping back, very precisely at a certain time.  A nice, predictable lean, into a profile that will shed drag like a boss.

 

I think it's probably an artefact, there have been things like this before

[LuckyStrike1]

Ahh this reminds me it has been a few seasons now without badly constructed gifs to show flexing wings as a rule break. It's about time we brought these back as we are being gifted once again with the driver conspiracy theories. 

 

Lovely. Humanity at its peak and all that. 

 

And yes - cheat obviously. That FIA has discovered this already when any forumer with Gif skills can. Amazing. Wait! They are probably in on it. Siding with Ferrari. Oh, a conspiracy! Ferrari International Assistance. 

[muramasa]

most cars rear wing and front wing wiggle like that merc gif when riding kerbs etc.

[Gareth]

Historic practice suggests: if it passes the test (and given it was on the race track, I imagine it did), it's legal.

 

The FIA can tighten up the test if they think teams are designing performance improvements via flexibility into the car.  And they can do it mid-season.

[Marklar]

The return of flexi wing.....

[muramasa]

seems that ferrari got overtaken by RBR, seems that bending rear wing not effective at all

[GoldenColt]

Vettel and flexi-wings, it's a neverending love-story.

[AustinF1]

Makes sense no? Under breaking the wing will be pushed down less and less as speed decreases.

Edit: Also the car will "lean" forward, causing the rear to rise.

Looks like the wing is moving vertically in relation to the car. Since it's a car-mounted camera, we shouldn't see anything like that, regardless of whether the car is accelerating, braking, etc.

[AustinF1]

most cars rear wing and front wing wiggle like that merc gif when riding kerbs etc.

I think the op was referring to the vertical movement relative to the car, but I could be wrong. ETA: Also looks like the monkey seat rises in relation to the exhaust pipe.

Edited by AustinF1, 18 May 2016 - 00:30.

[Radion]

Why is it forbidden anyway? Isn't this what F1 is all about, pushing the flexing to the limits? 

 

Is it because it creates more turbulent air?

Edited by Radion, 17 May 2016 - 17:47.

[johnmhinds]

What is the Ferrari rear wing mounted onto?

[ANF]

I'm starting a DRS vs Flexing Rear Wing poll.

[muramasa]

I think the op was referring to the vertical movement relative to the car, but I could be wrong. ETA: Also looks like the monkey seat rises in relation to the diffuser.

oh, Marklar posted GIF of merc 2014 car whose rear wing is wiggling under braking, must have failed to load on your platform

That sort of horizontal wiggle of rear wing (as well as vertical shaking of front wing) is normal (maybe that merc rear wing is bit too wiggly tho ) on any car on certain conditions (like riding on kerbs/bump, under braking, when closed DRS etc), but yes that vertical bending on ferrari is obvious. (if that's genuine not photoshop of course) Must be "legal" (for now) as they must have passed the load test. Intriguing cos they repeatedly make load test stricter but still they can do it.

[Scotracer]

The wing HAS to flex at least some amount otherwise it'd break physics, however that's quite a lot of deflection. 

 

What are the rules regarding rear-wing deflection? I know there's a front wing deflection test...what about rear wing?

[Maustinsj]

I remember a flexing rear wing detaching at speed some years ago (Villeneueve's Williams?). I guess that's why it's banned.

[Nathan]

Is this a flexi-wing, or a flexi-endplate?  To me it looks like the whole structure pivots, not the wings flaps themselves.

[AustinF1]

oh, Marklar posted GIF of merc 2014 car whose rear wing is wiggling under braking, must have failed to load on your platform

That sort of horizontal wiggle of rear wing (as well as vertical shaking of front wing) is normal (maybe that merc rear wing is bit too wiggly tho ) on any car on certain conditions (like riding on kerbs/bump, under braking, when closed DRS etc), but yes that vertical bending on ferrari is obvious. (if that's genuine not photoshop of course) Must be "legal" (for now) as they must have passed the load test. Intriguing cos they repeatedly make load test stricter but still they can do it.

Yeah I think it didn't load the first time I viewed this page for some reason. It's there now.

[Jon83]

Are we not cheats anymore? 

[Archer]

That's not the point, the wing technically does not flex, it is the gearbox or wathever element that support the wing what flexes. A new loophole has been discovered by Ferrari?.

[Donka]

It's wobbling, the ferrari wing appears to be snapping back, very precisely at a certain time.  A nice, predictable lean, into a profile that will shed drag like a boss.

 

I think it's probably an artefact, there have been things like this before

 

That snapping is just when the GIF loops from the end back to the beginning.   What the GIF shows is Vettel coming down the end of the straight, looks like the lap DR dive bombed him down the inside, and as he slows and takes the turn the wing rises to a more upright position as it unloads due to reduced speed.

[Donka]

That's not the point, the wing technically does not flex, it is the gearbox or wathever element that support the wing what flexes. A new loophole has been discovered by Ferrari?.

Yeah you can see the whole wing, end plates and rear diffuser/crash structure move in unison in relation to the camera pod.   Since this is all connected to the gearbox, and the car is sprung from the box in the rear, this may just be an effect of the suspension unloading with reduced downforce and the tightly cropped GIF makes it look more extreme then it is.

[PayasYouRace]

That gif shows quite a dramatic reduction in "lean" as the car slows. The whole wing assembly appears to be twisting back on the straight under aero load.

It's probably within the limits of the FIA static tests though.

[Maustinsj]

Is there anything else the teams could get to flex at speed but pass the static tests? Just curious...

[Archer]

Maybe the FIA measurements are done respect to the car floor, and because it is the floor what flexes the measurements are right. Who knows.

[w1Y]

looks to me under breaking as it goes round for the corner the angle is changing to a deeper angle to provide more downforce

[FullOppositeLock]

oh, Marklar posted GIF of merc 2014 car whose rear wing is wiggling under braking, must have failed to load on your platform

That sort of horizontal wiggle of rear wing (as well as vertical shaking of front wing) is normal (maybe that merc rear wing is bit too wiggly tho ) on any car on certain conditions (like riding on kerbs/bump, under braking, when closed DRS etc), but yes that vertical bending on ferrari is obvious. (if that's genuine not photoshop of course) Must be "legal" (for now) as they must have passed the load test. Intriguing cos they repeatedly make load test stricter but still they can do it.

 

Definitely not a photoshop (second video): http://www.formula1....-barcelona.html

Edited by FullOppositeLock, 17 May 2016 - 19:59.

[A3]

Here's the video:

http://www.formula1....-barcelona.html

[v@sh]

Nah can't be, only RBR cheat here when it comes to flexible wings 

[Archer]

I also noticed that the engine cover deflates. It is more subtle than the movement of wing, end plates and monkey seat. And the engine exhaust pipe don`t moves, so the exhaust gasses goes a lot more closer to the monkey seat than in static configuration, it would help to generate more downforce.

Edited by Archer, 17 May 2016 - 21:39.

[ANF]

That gif shows quite a dramatic reduction in "lean" as the car slows. The whole wing assembly appears to be twisting back on the straight under aero load.

It's probably within the limits of the FIA static tests though.

Sure looks like it. The angle keeps increasing together with the speed down the straight.

[baddog]

The RB wing wobbles about all over the place too, and nothing on a front rank RB car wobbles where not intended.

[HP]

That snapping is just when the GIF loops from the end back to the beginning.   What the GIF shows is Vettel coming down the end of the straight, looks like the lap DR dive bombed him down the inside, and as he slows and takes the turn the wing rises to a more upright position as it unloads due to reduced speed.

Good observation skill.

[barnardferrari]

Maybe the front wing of that Red Bull behind makes so much downforce that it sucks the Ferrari wing backwards.

[Frank Tuesday]

Maybe it is the engine cover that is flexing up,

[EthanM]

end of the straight = maximum aerodynamic load. Breaking zone, load reduces. Seems pretty normal to me

[ch103]

It is tough to tell honestly but its nothing like the front wing on the Red Bull's years ago.  That case was totally obvious.  I think the video in OP can be skewed by breaking forces on the camera and car to produce an effect that seems like a flexing wing.

[Nobody]

pretty obvious it's flexing at the critical moments, but if it passed the load tests it's legal

[turssi]

Santander made them do it for added brand visibility once spotted by internet fans.

[Peat]

I noticed the Haas rear wing wobbling all over the place when BigJohn took his little trip across the gravel.

[PassWind]

The return of flexi wing.....

 

How many times do people have to be bloody told, all surfaces and materials deform, compress or change properties when forces are applied to them. The rules govern how much so teams don't take the piss, I would slap my designers silly if they weren't exploiting materials to achieve just that in a controlled manner, assuming I get lap time from it.

[Gareth]

How many times do people have to be bloody told, all surfaces and materials deform, compress or change properties when forces are applied to them. The rules govern how much so teams don't take the piss, I would slap my designers silly if they weren't exploiting materials to achieve just that in a controlled manner, assuming I get lap time from it.

But this is one area where the rules can be changed mid-season.  The FIA can alter the tests at any point they want.  I'm not sure I would want my designers to build a car whose performance was reliant on some controlled flexing that is obvious to the naked eye and easily eliminated by a new, or tougher, test.

 

Must be a fun game of cat and mouse for the designers.

[Seanspeed]

Looks deliberate, or else it's a hell of a coincidence.  

 

Nice to see!  Been a while since Ferrari were the ones pushing the rules.  

[YoungGun]

Side effect on a poorly designed turbo, sending shock waves throughout the entire chassis.