107 replies to this topic

[Slowersofterdumber]

Mark123, on 19 May 2016 - 14:51, said:

Front wings are not single deck anymore. They are upto 8 layers, they cause almost as much drag as the skinny rear wings they use today.

 

Not even close mate.

 

In terms of downforce they produce they´re sort of close (the rear still works harder) but the rear wing is FAR more draggy. Think of what DRS achieves with a small adjustment, you would never achieve that kind of boost with a front wing adjustment.

 

You can look around the internet for pictures of what BAR did with their car to achieve the not-official F1 top speed record. They removed completely the RW and just left a vertical fin, while the FW was pretty much left alone.

[mistareno]

Slowersofterdumber, on 21 May 2016 - 00:36, said:

Not even close mate.

 

In terms of downforce they produce they´re sort of close (the rear still works harder) but the rear wing is FAR more draggy. Think of what DRS achieves with a small adjustment, you would never achieve that kind of boost with a front wing adjustment.

 

You can look around the internet for pictures of what BAR did with their car to achieve the not-official F1 top speed record. They removed completely the RW and just left a vertical fin, while the FW was pretty much left alone.

 

We are getting off topic here, but your above post is False.

 

The Speed Record Wing

 

 

The Normal Wing:

 

 

They removed the entire Main Flap and turned it into a slender profile. I'm sure all they left was enough to keep the car from doing a Webber at 400 km/h...

 

That said, I do agree that the rear wing produces significantly more drag when fitted to the car, for 1 main reason - The rear wing directly forms part of the frontal area.

 

When DRS is activated, the open rear flap has a 2 fold effect - reducing the frontal area and reducing the induced drag.

 

It is much harder to quantify only the drag effect of the Front wing, because the wing is largely (or completely) within the frontal area silhouette, the drag is mainly induced drag - but the wing is also an important flow controller and vortex generator that controls flow and reduces drag down stream.

Edited by mistareno, 21 May 2016 - 05:17.

[Mark123]

Slowersofterdumber, on 21 May 2016 - 00:36, said:

Not even close mate.

In terms of downforce they produce they´re sort of close (the rear still works harder) but the rear wing is FAR more draggy. Think of what DRS achieves with a small adjustment, you would never achieve that kind of boost with a front wing adjustment.

You can look around the internet for pictures of what BAR did with their car to achieve the not-official F1 top speed record. They removed completely the RW and just left a vertical fin, while the FW was pretty much left alone.

Thanks for the reply, I had not seen the BAR car and I learned something from your response. It's surprising that the front wings don't carry as much downforce with the angle of all the elements.

[chipmcdonald]

I think it might be going up in braking, instead of just returning to "stationary". The attention to "wing flex" could be a red herring. The rear crash structure is deflecting. No reason to design that into the process if you want drag reduction. Also, this is happening at the *end of a braking zone*. It doesn't help at all to reduce drag there. ABS friendly quasi-swing arm harvesting-brake lock overlap. Are they allowed to remotely lock out the dampers? It may be not so much that we're seeing lower drag on the straight but also an increase in attack angle under braking. Make the harvesting overlap the front brake lock limit, lock out the rebound effect of the rear suspension and you "twist" the rear up.

[Kalmake]

No, they can't lock or adjust the dampers. Active systems like that were banned in the 90's.

 

Few years back anti-dive systems that used brake torque to control ride height were banned as well.

[Marklar]

AMS F1 News
AMS F1 News‏ @ams_formula1
Ferrari and Red Bull have found new ways to flex legaly their wings. #AMuS: (link: http://bit.ly/1XNflnv) bit.ly/1XNflnv #f1

FIA wants to change the tests now

[OO7]

The description of the Ferrari system (whether it actually works as described is another issue), is similar to the description I gave a few years back about how I thought RB could be flexing their tea tray.

[jimjimjeroo]

http://www.motorspor...smedley-777140/