4063 replies to this topic

[noikeee]

Part I
 
You can continue this ever popular discussion in here.

Remember that the guideline for the last thread apply equally here. We don't want to see any personal attacks or derogatory comments of any kind about other posters or groups of fans. Stick to the issues, and keep the thread about Max and Daniel and how their on-track performances compare please.

This is an exciting pairing, and we'd like people to enjoy discussing them without wading through pages of name calling.

[Marklar]

Any bets on when this thread is going to overtake Rosberg vs. Hamilton?

[Afaf]

Any bets on when this thread is going to overtake Rosberg vs. Hamilton?

 

Around the time Red Bull overtakes Mercedes, so a couple of races? 

[A3]

Max is only 18, he is in his second season in F1 and has joined a team part way through the season. Now he has a very quick team mate shouting from the roof tops that the team are costing him. How do you think Max is feeling? Is Dan welcoming him with open arms?

Did you watch this periscope episode?

 

https://www.periscop...w/1zqKVkRkogLGB

[A3]

In the previous thread I read about people who thought Ricciardo was under pressure from Max and that that was the reason he was so critical of his team.

 

I don't get why people think like that. These guys are the top drivers in the world, they think/know that they are the very best (I mean, even Rosberg thinks that ). Max is not the reason Ricciardo is critical about his team.

 

 

Ricciardo (rightly so IMHO) thinks he might have a shot at the title this year. Maybe less so after the last 2 races, but I believe the entire team has know for a while now that things are looking great for Red Bull. They have the best chassis, great drivers and a greatly improved engine. Everything is in place now to win and this made the errors the team made much more frustrating for Ricciardo.

 

Again, in my opinion.

 

Let's just keep that "Ricciardo will implode if Max is faster/Max will crash if Ricciardo is faster" crap out of this thread.

[RPM40]

In the previous thread I read about people who thought Ricciardo was under pressure from Max and that that was the reason he was so critical of his team.

I don't get why people think like that. These guys are the top drivers in the world, they think/know that they are the very best (I mean, even Rosberg thinks that ). Max is not the reason Ricciardo is critical about his team.


Ricciardo (rightly so IMHO) thinks he might have a shot at the title this year. Maybe less so after the last 2 races, but I believe the entire team has know for a while now that things are looking great for Red Bull. They have the best chassis, great drivers and a greatly improved engine. Everything is in place now to win and this made the errors the team made much more frustrating for Ricciardo.

Again, in my opinion.

Let's just keep that "Ricciardo will implode if Max is faster/Max will crash if Ricciardo is faster" crap out of this thread.

I mean, he's only 40 points off now. Of course that hasn't been a perfect season for anyone, Merc have had their own problems, but maybe just maybe if Red Bull had the perfect season they'd be in with an outside shot. I think he'd be very close to Rosberg in points if everything went his way, but when has that ever happened in an f1 season. At least he's only had one effective non finish all season (Russia).

Although to me, the big frustration has been for the wins. Ricciardo wants more padding for his career profile as f1 and Red Bull especially are so uncertain, the more poles, wins, podiums the better. Ultimately drivers are still defined by those stats.

Edited by RPM40, 02 June 2016 - 11:01.

[fed up]

In the previous thread I read about people who thought Ricciardo was under pressure from Max and that that was the reason he was so critical of his team.

 

I don't get why people think like that. These guys are the top drivers in the world, they think/know that they are the very best (I mean, even Rosberg thinks that ). Max is not the reason Ricciardo is critical about his team.

 

 

Ricciardo (rightly so IMHO) thinks he might have a shot at the title this year. Maybe less so after the last 2 races, but I believe the entire team has know for a while now that things are looking great for Red Bull. They have the best chassis, great drivers and a greatly improved engine. Everything is in place now to win and this made the errors the team made much more frustrating for Ricciardo.

 

Again, in my opinion.

 

Let's just keep that "Ricciardo will implode if Max is faster/Max will crash if Ricciardo is faster" crap out of this thread.

 

You are right. I'm trying to understand Dan's reaction and demeanor in Monaco - it puzzled me. Crofty said something similar on the Sky F1 report yesterday.

 

F1 is  full of ups and downs, so I can't figure out why he was so sure he would have won the race but for the team's error/mistake on lap 32 of a 78 lap race. Yes there was a strong possibility but to labour the point and refer to a race 2 weeks before - a race that the team won, as further evidence of being screwed, leads me to believe that there is something more to it.

 

My guess and it is mine only, is that Dan is imposing his authority and trying to destabilise Max. Dan is nearly 27, Max is 18 - does he really need to be imposing his authority against a kid? 

 

Oh well, time will tell how this develops.

[RPM40]

You are right. I'm trying to understand Dan's reaction and demeanor in Monaco - it puzzled me. Crofty said something similar on the Sky F1 report yesterday.

F1 is full of ups and downs, so I can't figure out why he was so sure he would have won the race but for the team's error/mistake on lap 32 of a 78 lap race. Yes there was a strong possibility but to labour the point and refer to a race 2 weeks before - a race that the team won, as further evidence of being screwed, leads me to believe that there is something more to it.

My guess and it is mine only, is that Dan is imposing his authority and trying to destabilise Max. Dan is nearly 27, Max is 18 - does he really need to be imposing his authority against a kid?

Oh well, time will tell how this develops.

You keep trying to imply it was unlikely he'd win the race, we all know short of some extraordinary event, had he exited the pits ahead he would have won.

[A3]

My guess and it is mine only, is that Dan is imposing his authority and trying to destabilise Max. Dan is nearly 27, Max is 18 - does he really need to be imposing his authority against a kid? 

 

You say I'm right and that say the exact opposite of what I think is the reason.

 

He's not trying to destabilise Max, he feels he has a shot at the title. IMO.

[HoldenRT]

The amount of pages since Spain until now.. and it's only been 2 races..

 

I find it hard to discuss anything to be honest.  It's all been pretty clear cut at the moment.  It's an exciting driver pairing no doubt.

 

Just remember to keep it in perspective guys.  Nothing that's said here really matters much, it's just passing the time until the next race until there's something new to talk about.  If you find yourself watching the race weekend, with posters opinions stuck in your head and you are watching the TV to be proven right or wrong, about specific comments or arguments.. you've taken it too far and are taking the forum too seriously.

 

I like this pairing and hope that it can help both of them improve and push the team further towards the front and contesting for wins vs Mercedes.  If that happens, the heat really WILL be turned up.. I wonder if it will be 80 pages per week?

[v@sh]

You are right. I'm trying to understand Dan's reaction and demeanor in Monaco - it puzzled me. Crofty said something similar on the Sky F1 report yesterday.

 

F1 is  full of ups and downs, so I can't figure out why he was so sure he would have won the race but for the team's error/mistake on lap 32 of a 78 lap race. Yes there was a strong possibility but to labour the point and refer to a race 2 weeks before - a race that the team won, as further evidence of being screwed, leads me to believe that there is something more to it.

 

My guess and it is mine only, is that Dan is imposing his authority and trying to destabilise Max. Dan is nearly 27, Max is 18 - does he really need to be imposing his authority against a kid? 

 

Oh well, time will tell how this develops.

 

He had the full race under control? created the gaps he needed to be ahead.

 

Even if RBR botched the pitstop and it was 1 second quicker, he would have come out ahead of Hamilton. That's how much he was ahead of Hamilton. When all the world's print media and every single F1 publication says it was Ricciardo's race to win and the same publications give him a perfect weekend I think it's pretty obvious why he was so sure he could win. They could have even changed the strategy as to not even having to react to what Lewis did and still won.

 

I think you're overthinking it. It wasn't even about Max, it was about two wins that he should have won where the mistakes were easily avoidable (the Spanish one less so but RBR didn't having their thinking caps on well enough).

[statman]

Ridiculous to have a 2nd thread. The 50 or so pages in the first one were basically a teenagers chatbox with no substance whatsoever. If you were looking for relevant things like post-race drivers reactions you couldn't find it.

 

FYI: the Verstappen/Sainz thread was locked last year because it was becoming ridiculous. Might be a good idea for this one.

[mistareno]

... feels he has a shot at the title. IMO.

Oh FFS, there is no place for sound logic here.

Mods, surely this can't go unpunished...

Edited by mistareno, 02 June 2016 - 11:46.

[Marklar]

FYI: the Verstappen/Sainz thread was locked last year because it was becoming ridiculous. Might be a good idea for this one.

Was after the season end though

[v@sh]

You say I'm right and that say the exact opposite of what I think is the reason.

 

He's not trying to destabilise Max, he feels he has a shot at the title. IMO.

 

He is driving the most consistent out of all the front runners, with the points he has already lost so far this season he'd probably be 2nd in the WDC and an outside shot at the title. It would make things interesting at the front and put more pressure on the Merc drivers.

 

There is still time to catch up but I think Canada will be a good test of how far Renault has progressed with their PU. Taffin says they are still 0.5 second down on the Mercs but RBRs chassis will help make it more interesting on Sundays. Max and DR will eventually both overtake Ferrari by seasons end IMO.

[A3]

I like this pairing and hope that it can help both of them improve and push the team further towards the front and contesting for wins vs Mercedes.  If that happens, the heat really WILL be turned up.. I wonder if it will be 80 pages per week?

 

The might impose a post limit on us....

Error: you already posted in this htread today: See you tomorrow

Edited by A3, 02 June 2016 - 11:52.

[Kao18]

You say I'm right and that say the exact opposite of what I think is the reason.

 

He's not trying to destabilise Max, he feels he has a shot at the title. IMO.

 

Can it be a bit of both?

 

Definitely think some of the things fed up has said make sense though I don't believe it is some devious well thought out plan from Ricciardo to destabilise Max.

[A3]

Oh FFS, there is no place for sound logic here.

Mods, surely this can't go unpunished...

What did I say?

[mistareno]

Error: you already posted 100 times in this thread today: See you tomorrow

Fixed it for you...

Edited by mistareno, 02 June 2016 - 11:55.

[RPM40]

Max and Daniel seem to get along perfectly fine. I think his message is more for the team if anything. 

 

They seem to get along strangely well so far. Max seems like a fairly affable kind of guy. I see none of that edge in his personality of say a young Vettel. 

[mistareno]

What did I say?

Sorry. Sarcasm...

[MastaKink]

You are right. I'm trying to understand Dan's reaction and demeanor in Monaco - it puzzled me. Crofty said something similar on the Sky F1 report yesterday.

 

F1 is  full of ups and downs, so I can't figure out why he was so sure he would have won the race but for the team's error/mistake on lap 32 of a 78 lap race. Yes there was a strong possibility but to labour the point and refer to a race 2 weeks before - a race that the team won, as further evidence of being screwed, leads me to believe that there is something more to it.

 

My guess and it is mine only, is that Dan is imposing his authority and trying to destabilise Max. Dan is nearly 27, Max is 18 - does he really need to be imposing his authority against a kid? 

 

Oh well, time will tell how this develops.

 

It puzzles you that a driver got annoyed after losing out on a very good chance for a win for the second race in a row by things outside his control?. (On top of the other bad luck he has had this year as well).

 

You're either overthinking it or are very easily puzzled mate.

[Nemo1965]

 but that Max is at Red Bull now has 0,01 percent to do with Jos's management skills. 

 

In response to the poster that reacted with: 'Utter, utter nonsense.  Do you forget how many aspiring racing car drivers get nowhere near F1 or hang around the edge of F1 for eons, never making an impression?'

There were and are excellent and talented drivers that never got a (real) chance in F1.  I name Giorgio Pantano in the past and Robin Frijns in the present. If both would have had fantastic managers, perhaps Pantano would have been in F1 longer and Frijns would have been in F1 in the first place. But even if Pantano would have had Jezus as his manager, he would not have been hired by Ferrari or McLaren at the time. The same applies for Frijns. If teams don't believe in you, you have to bring money. Or stay away.

 

But that was not the point I was trying to make. A chance with a top-team (in casu Red Bull) - and especially as an 18-year old - is NOT given to the best driver-manager-combination. Most people in F1 THINK (it is not proven by any means yet) that Verstappen is a new Vettel or Hamilton, the next superstar of F1. If a consensus like that is broadly shared in F1, every F1-team will give him a seat if possible, even if he is managed by a banana wearing a fedora.

 

There is a (luckily) a small portion of posters that is already spinning the narrative that Verstappen junior has somehow earned his place in a good car by a platonic love-affair with Marko, the cunning management-skills of his father or... whatever reason one can think of, as long as it has nothing to do with his alleged racing talent. It is a kind of pre-emptive strike for when he is really going to do well, so his achievements can be diluted immediately.

 

For me, Verstappen junior still has to prove he CAN be the next Vettel or Hamilton or Schumacher. But I know Marko put him in that seat purely out of selfish reasons: he wants Red Bull racing to have the best chance of winning.

 

........................................................

 

I think I made my point...

 

 

Edited by Nemo1965, 02 June 2016 - 12:24.

[A3]

Sorry. Sarcasm...

Oh I get it now....

Edited by A3, 02 June 2016 - 12:16.

[kevinracefan]

Max and Daniel seem to get along perfectly fine. I think his message is more for the team if anything. 

 

They seem to get along strangely well so far. Max seems like a fairly affable kind of guy. I see none of that edge in his personality of say a young Vettel. 

I saw no "edge" in Seb's personality until after a couple WDC's... and it still wasn't too horrible, just assertive..

[mwf1]

Villeneuve had some interesting views on Max's Monaco performance, 

http://www.gptoday.c...e_is_protected/

Edited by mwf1, 02 June 2016 - 12:49.

[fed up]

It puzzles you that a driver got annoyed after losing out on a very good chance for a win for the second race in a row by things outside his control?. (On top of the other bad luck he has had this year as well).

 

You're either overthinking it or are very easily puzzled mate.

No no, I'm not puzzled that he was annoyed, it just puzzled me how long he was stringing it out for.

 

46 laps or 1 hour during the race

On the slow down lap

On the podium

In the driver's press conference

In his interview with Sky

In his interview with C4

In his interview with F1.com

 

He kept on going on about how the team had let him down - twice including Spain, and he questioned where he goes from here.

 

Surely this is way OTT and not normal. How long does it take to gather one's emotions?

 

I'm just of the opinion that the repetition was deliberate, perhaps for emphasis. 

[MastaKink]

No no, I'm not puzzled that he was annoyed, it just puzzled me how long he was stringing it out for.

 

46 laps or 1 hour during the race

On the slow down lap

On the podium

In the driver's press conference

In his interview with Sky

In his interview with C4

In his interview with F1.com

 

He kept on going on about how the team had let him down - twice including Spain, and he questioned where he goes from here.

 

Surely this is way OTT and not normal. How long does it take to gather one's emotions?

 

I'm just of the opinion that the repetition was deliberate, perhaps for emphasis.

 

I didn't know there was a time limit to feeling peeved off. And i'm sure he was busy during those 46 laps so you're basically talking about post race.

 

And I've heard plenty of moaning post race before for a lot less than what has happened to Dan this season, and in particular the last two races. And it was Monaco, a race drivers are desperate to win.

 

You're overthinking it.

[A3]

Villeneuve had some interesting views on Max's Monaco performance, 

http://www.gptoday.c...e_is_protected/

Same guy who screamed verstappen was too young for F1 and the same guy who said this about Max after his win in Spain:

Canada's 1997 world champion Jacques Villeneuve said Verstappen had made the most of the opportunity presented by dominant Mercedes drivers Nico Rosberg and Lewis Hamilton crashing into each other.

"That's what champions do," he added.

"You have to seize the opportunity when it's there and then he drove with amazing maturity. He's really stepped up."

 

Villeneuve has become clickbait.

[mwf1]

No no, I'm not puzzled that he was annoyed, it just puzzled me how long he was stringing it out for.

 

46 laps or 1 hour during the race

On the slow down lap

On the podium

In the driver's press conference

In his interview with Sky

In his interview with C4

In his interview with F1.com

 

He kept on going on about how the team had let him down - twice including Spain, and he questioned where he goes from here.

 

Surely this is way OTT and not normal. How long does it take to gather one's emotions?

 

I'm just of the opinion that the repetition was deliberate, perhaps for emphasis. 

Ricciardo is on a performance based contract both ways, is there a possible job opening at Merc as Rosberg is trying to get a bigger slice of the financial pie, I suppose its doubtful.but you never know.

[fed up]

I didn't know there was a time limit to feeling peeved off. And i'm sure he was busy during those 46 laps so you're basically talking about post race.

 

And I've heard plenty of moaning post race before for a lot less than what has happened to Dan this season, and in particular the last two races. And it was Monaco, a race drivers are desperate to win.

 

You're overthinking it.

 

Fair enough but there has to be a point at which slagging off your own team to the world becomes a tad excessive. You will also struggle to find a quote where a driver has described his own team as running around like "headless chooks"

 

You're right; perhaps I am overthinking it   

[MastaKink]

Fair enough but there has to be a point at which slagging off your own team to the world becomes a tad excessive. You will also struggle to find a quote where a driver has described his own team as running around like "headless chooks"

 

You're right; perhaps I am overthinking it   

 

If he's still doing it in Canada I would agree it's excessive. I would hope I could find a sterner quote than running around like headless chooks otherwise F1 is the dullest sport on the planet. If/when I can be bothered I'll have a look.

 

That's the polite option anyway. 

[Brackets]

No no, I'm not puzzled that he was annoyed, it just puzzled me how long he was stringing it out for.

 

46 laps or 1 hour during the race

On the slow down lap

On the podium

In the driver's press conference

In his interview with Sky

In his interview with C4

In his interview with F1.com

 

I'm just of the opinion that the repetition was deliberate

 

You want him to say different things to different news outlets!? Of course he is going to 'repeat' the same answer to the same question...

[JeePee]

I understand Ricciardo's frustration, but he's gotta watch out not to over-criticise his team. What will happen if after all his comments he puts it in the wall of champions next race? Pitcrew gonna say he screwed them?

 

Hope he leaves it behind in Canada.

[MastaKink]

I understand Ricciardo's frustration, but he's gotta watch out not to over-criticise his team. What will happen if after all his comments he puts it in the wall of champions next race? Pitcrew gonna say he screwed them?

 

Hope he leaves it behind in Canada.

 

If he crashes out two races in a row while leading I'm sure they'd have something to say,yes.

[LiftAndCoast]

No no, I'm not puzzled that he was annoyed, it just puzzled me how long he was stringing it out for.

46 laps or 1 hour during the race
On the slow down lap
On the podium
In the driver's press conference
In his interview with Sky
In his interview with C4
In his interview with F1.com

He kept on going on about how the team had let him down - twice including Spain, and he questioned where he goes from here.

Surely this is way OTT and not normal. How long does it take to gather one's emotions?

I'm just of the opinion that the repetition was deliberate, perhaps for emphasis.

This "drivers shouldn't criticize the team" thing is hilarious.

I don't know which driver you support, but I guarantee that he will have criticized the team publicly at some point. They are humans, not robots.

Did you hear Vettel screaming down the radio at his engineers at the end of Q3 that they'd made his car worse?

Hamilton in interviews after his Q3 engine problems, saying he's getting used to these problems always happening to him (i.e. not Rosberg)?

Remember Alonso, at Honda's home GP, with all the Honda execs present (in a culture where loss of face is a big deal) telling the whole world via team radio that he was given a "GP2 engine"?

I could go on, but the point is there is nothing extraordinary at all about Ricciardo honestly expressing his disappointment about the team letting him down. Frankly, he showed more restraint than some people here.

You think that Red Bull are going to what, sack their driver for expressing disappointment at what they admit, and every journo in the sport says, was a mistake costing them certain victory in the world's most famous race?

Fortunately those who run formula one teams are a little more sanguine than your average hyperventilating internet poster.

Edit: none of the above is a criticism of Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso, or any other driver. To the contrary, they are all humans who in the heat of the moment sometimes express their emotions.

Edited by LiftAndCoast, 02 June 2016 - 13:47.

[SenorSjon]

Well, if he keeps it up with the slashing of the team, I wonder if the team will still go balls out for him? It becomes some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy that way.

 

Edit @ above

Radio comments are imo something else than commenting towards the press.

 

Alonso had ~15 races of frustration behind him. Hamilton and Ricciardo wouldn't survive that I guess.

Edited by SenorSjon, 02 June 2016 - 13:52.

[HeadFirst]

You are right. I'm trying to understand Dan's reaction and demeanor in Monaco - it puzzled me. Crofty said something similar on the Sky F1 report yesterday.

 

F1 is  full of ups and downs, so I can't figure out why he was so sure he would have won the race but for the team's error/mistake on lap 32 of a 78 lap race. Yes there was a strong possibility but to labour the point and refer to a race 2 weeks before - a race that the team won, as further evidence of being screwed, leads me to believe that there is something more to it.

 

My guess and it is mine only, is that Dan is imposing his authority and trying to destabilise Max. Dan is nearly 27, Max is 18 - does he really need to be imposing his authority against a kid? 

 

Oh well, time will tell how this develops.

 

Dan was so sure he could have won the race, because it is almost impossible to pass at Monaco .... even for a gifted driver like Hamilton. I don't think for a moment that there is any attempt to destabilize Max, Dan simply wants the team to do their job properly and not screw him around.

[Melbourne Park]

Headless chooks was exactly what it looked like. Although it was just the pit crew, not the whole team.

 

And 1,000 guys at Milton Keynes and Viry would have thought the same thing. 

[Fredshje]

Dan was extremely disappointed by the second place and those remarks over the teamradio were made in the heat of the moment. It is completely normal to act like he did, even in the after-race interviews. The adrenaline is still rushing, it takes time to release that anger that he has/had against the team. And just like any other normal person, Dan also has to process what happened. I think he will be much more nuanced about all what happened in a couple of days. 

[sennafan24]

Vettel showed strain after qualifying. Lewis showed strain after Russia. Danny having a wobble is not anything out of the ordinary, especially when you consider the run he is on. This was the 4th race in a row where he's lost major points due to no fault of his own.

 

China - Seemed nailed on for a 2nd place, but picked up a puncture. Finished 4th after a sterling recovery drive.

 

Russia - Was probably set to finish 4th or 5th, but his teammate damaged his car at the first turn. Finished 11th, outside the points

 

Spain - On for the win, but the team botched his strategy. Finished 4th

 

Monaco - Again, on for the win, but the team botched up his pit stop. Finished 2nd

 

That's around 35 points that he's lost in just 4 weekends. I don't blame him for being a bit tetchy. 

[Marklar]

Alonso had ~15 races of frustration behind him. Hamilton and Ricciardo wouldn't survive that I guess.

Well, I thought the same about Alonso...

I can't see anything wrong with his statements. It would be different if he was underperforming (then it could have an negative impact), but he clearly doesnt

[UpToNoGood]

Well, I thought the same about Alonso...

I can't see anything wrong with his statements. It would be different if he was underperforming (then it could have an negative impact), but he clearly doesnt

 

Performing is never a reason to mouth off your team and publicly critize you employer. No driver is more important than his team. I like DR very much but what he did after Spain and Monaco was very immature and bratty IMO. 

RBR took him in their Junior program and paved the road to where he is now. RBR invested a lot in him and pays his salary of an estimaded $ 6 million in 2016.

The least that you expect then is loyalty ans restraint instead of slating the team and in the process  a lot of engineers that have no influence on the teams management decisions. 

If Ricciardo wants to be the lead driver he should also act like a leader and not be whining in public. No employer would expect or accept this kind of behaviour.

[HeadFirst]

Performing is never a reason to mouth off your team and publicly critize you employer. No driver is more important than his team. I like DR very much but what he did after Spain and Monaco was very immature and bratty IMO. 

RBR took him in their Junior program and paved the road to where he is now. RBR invested a lot in him and pays his salary of an estimaded $ 6 million in 2016.

The least that you expect then is loyalty ans restraint instead of slating the team and in the process  a lot of engineers that have no influence on the teams management decisions. 

If Ricciardo wants to be the lead driver he should also act like a leader and not be whining in public. No employer would expect or accept this kind of behaviour.

 

Immature .... perhaps understandable maybe, but certainly not in the same class as defying team orders in my opinion. Daniel has been a class act throughout his career, so I will cut him some slack on this. I hope it does not become a trend. I would feel much different had he refused a team order under race conditions.

[trogggy]

Performing is never a reason to mouth off your team and publicly critize you employer. No driver is more important than his team. I like DR very much but what he did after Spain and Monaco was very immature and bratty IMO. 

RBR took him in their Junior program and paved the road to where he is now. RBR invested a lot in him and pays his salary of an estimaded $ 6 million in 2016.

The least that you expect then is loyalty ans restraint instead of slating the team and in the process  a lot of engineers that have no influence on the teams management decisions. 

If Ricciardo wants to be the lead driver he should also act like a leader and not be whining in public. No employer would expect or accept this kind of behaviour.

Bollocks.  Red Bull aren't a charity - they pay him because they want him - and need him.  And if a driver - or an engine supplier for that matter -  isn't performing they're not slow to criticise in public.  Helmut Marko listened to what DR said... and said they owed him an apology.  I must have missed the bit where he said 'We can't accept his behaviour.'

You think all those engineers / mechanics / the tea lady are happy with what went on?  You think they're offended by DR's words?  Fine - post something to back it up.

Edited by trogggy, 02 June 2016 - 16:55.

[Beamer]

Villeneuve had some interesting views on Max's Monaco performance,
http://www.gptoday.c...e_is_protected/

I really really liked villeneuve as a driver. Balls out and a brainfade move just about every third race. Always unpredictable. Bit the last few years his comments have been... Uehmm.. Quite interesting to say the least.

[UpToNoGood]

Bollocks.  Red Bull aren't a charity - they pay him because they want him - and need him.  And if a driver - or an engine supplier for that matter -  isn't performing they're not slow to criticise in public.  Helmut Marko listened to what DR said... and said they owed him an apology.  I must have missed the bit where he said 'We can't accept his behaviour.'

You think all those engineers / mechanics / the tea lady are happy with what went on?  You think they're offended by DR's words?  Fine - post something to back it up.

 

He used the word SCREWED which stands for cheated, bilked, so intentionally done wrong which implies he thinks he is sabotaged. There is no denying taht DR was very unlucky twice but to used the word screwed was offensive to his team.  By the way, can you post something that shows the engineers were happy with his words? They are not stupid, RBR possibly missed out on one victory. The other victory got bagged by MAX in a very impressive way.

Edited by UpToNoGood, 02 June 2016 - 17:41.

[extremeday]

No no, I'm not puzzled that he was annoyed, it just puzzled me how long he was stringing it out for.

 

46 laps or 1 hour during the race

On the slow down lap

On the podium

In the driver's press conference

In his interview with Sky

In his interview with C4

In his interview with F1.com

 

He kept on going on about how the team had let him down - twice including Spain, and he questioned where he goes from here.

 

Surely this is way OTT and not normal. How long does it take to gather one's emotions?

 

I'm just of the opinion that the repetition was deliberate, perhaps for emphasis. 

 

Ricciardo is saying the truth. If he is asked the same questions, what do you expect him to answer? Should he lie? Shoud he say there is no problem? Why shouldn´t drivers criticize their teams if their complaints are fair? Because they throw the team under the bus? People don´t need Ricciardo to notice that Red Bull performances in last races were subpar performances regarding Ricciardo, subpar performance in general, in the case of Monaco race.

 

Most drivers complain, I can remember several Hamilton complaints, for example...

 

 

Performing is never a reason to mouth off your team and publicly critize you employer. No driver is more important than his team. I like DR very much but what he did after Spain and Monaco was very immature and bratty IMO. 

RBR took him in their Junior program and paved the road to where he is now. RBR invested a lot in him and pays his salary of an estimaded $ 6 million in 2016.

The least that you expect then is loyalty ans restraint instead of slating the team and in the process  a lot of engineers that have no influence on the teams management decisions. 

If Ricciardo wants to be the lead driver he should also act like a leader and not be whining in public. No employer would expect or accept this kind of behaviour.

 

No driver is more important than his team? Sure, what else. I can remember several drivers openly criticizing their teams, harshly criticizing their teams, and teams dealing with it, and keeping their huge salaries, and telling everybody that drivers were right and they should improve... I can remember drivers leaving their teams, drivers being idolized, people criticizing teams because their drivers didn´t deserve that...drivers are not any employee. 

 

By the way, Red Bull got rid of Kvyat due to his lackluster performances, they didn´t hesitate about it. Why shouldn´t people, including drivers, demand the team to do what the team demand of others? 

Edited by extremeday, 02 June 2016 - 17:31.

[trogggy]

He used the word SCREWED which stands for cheated, biked, so intentionally done wrong which implies he thinks he is sabotaged. There is no denying taht DR was very unlucky twice but to used the word screwed was offensive to his team.  By the way, can you post something that shows the engineers were happy with his words? They are not stupid, RBR possibly missed out on one victory. The other victory got bagged by MAX in a very impressive way.

If he was saying that Helmut wouldn't be apologising.

Just think about it.

And if you can't work it out I'll give you a few examples of 'screwed' that clearly don't have anything to do with sabotage, cheating, dirty tricks.  No charge.

 

And in answer to your 'By the way...' no - I certainly can't be bothered to look for them because I'm not the one making a claim.  That's not how it works.

Edited by trogggy, 02 June 2016 - 17:46.

[Muppetmad]

No employer would expect or accept this kind of behaviour.

No employer would expect or accept the incompetence displayed by the team at Monaco. If I was any high-ranking Red Bull figure, I know who I'd be angry with - and it's not the guy who did everything correctly to win the race.

 

He wasn't implying he had been sabotaged. You've inferred that yourself.