18 replies to this topic

[GMiranda]

Hello

 

There's already a lot of topics about Japanese drivers in F1, discussions about why they were never able to become regular front-runners, etc, etc....

What I pretend with this topic is to know your opinion about the value of the Japanese pioneers in Europe, discuss their value and share info on their careers. Among these pioneers I include:

- Kazuyoshi Hoshino;

- Masahiro Hasemi;

- Kunimitsu Takahashi;

- Masami Kuwashima;

- Hiroshi Fushida:

- Noritake Takahara;

- Tetsu Ikuzawa

- Satoru Nakajima (even if he came to Europe in the 80's, his career started far earlier)

- Hiroshi Kazato

[Barry Boor]

I didn't think that Hoshino drove very much in Europe. I felt that he was very good but he seemed to want to stay in Japan. Or maybe I have that wrong.

[chunder27]

Nobby Ueda

Nobuyuki Wakai

Kazuto Sakata.

Tetsuya Harada.

 

After this group came guys like Haga, Okada, Itoh, Katoh, Kagayama. The first few set the tone.

 

Started a Japanese invasion into 125 racing in the early 90's that led to numerous world championships!

 

Before that Japanese riders were considered a part of a team taking Japanese bikes much like a Nakajima or Katayama did a little later in F1. Takazumi Katayama was a world champ on a very special Yamaha and a few others like Tadahiko Taira were able to score good  results, but the first few mentioned were championships threats and won lots of races for European teams and settled here instead of being a Japanese abroad! ANd most importantly they bought a level of riding that really upset the establishment, hard banzai stuff that made the class so exciting!

Edited by chunder27, 27 September 2016 - 06:52.

[Michael Ferner]

I don't recall Takahashi or Hasemi racing in Europe at all, or Takahara come to think of it. Takahashi on bikes, yes, but cars? Then again, I was never big on Sports cars, and knowing the Japanese worshipping of Le Mans they may have raced there. I know Hoshino did, along with a few other Sports car races. Ikuzawa was pretty much the pioneer, here.

Chunder brings up a very good point, in that until Noboru Ueda's permanent move to Italy, Japanese drivers and riders tended to spend a summer or two in a virtual Japanese enclave in Europe, trying to emulate Japanese living far from home. It's not unlike Michael Andretti's troubles in 1993, it doesn't work very well. So, comparing e.g. Hoshino's feats in Europe to those of European drivers is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. In Japan, he was VERY, VERY BIG.

[PZR]

Hello

 

There's already a lot of topics about Japanese drivers in F1, discussions about why they were never able to become regular front-runners, etc, etc....

What I pretend with this topic is to know your opinion about the value of the Japanese pioneers in Europe, discuss their value and share info on their careers. Among these pioneers I include:

- Kazuyoshi Hoshino;

- Masahiro Hasemi;

- Kunimitsu Takahashi;

- Masami Kuwashima;

- Hiroshi Fushida:

- Noritake Takahara;

- Tetsu Ikuzawa

- Satoru Nakajima (even if he came to Europe in the 80's, his career started far earlier)

- Hiroshi Kazato

 

I'd like to see one of my personal faves, Moto Kitano on that list. Another of Honda's early IOM TT riders, he switched to four wheels and was soon with Nissan as a Works driver. European activities limited to a few touring car races here in the UK, but a very high profile driver in Japan for more than three decades.

 

Restricting activities to 'Europe' is possibly a little bit of a forced perspective, I suspect. 

 

The drivers mentioned - along with others - did indeed take part in events outside Japan, but mainland Europe was logistically harder than much of the rest of the world. Limited events in SE Asia of course, but those in USA, Australia, South America were often easier to take part in for the Japanese than European ones. Many of these drivers were closely linked to specific manufacturer teams which limited their options, but the economics of embarking on a solo campaign in Europe with the exchange rates of the late 1960s and early 1970s made it very difficult for Japanese drivers to get much bang for the very strongly devalued yen. Only the likes of Ikuzawa and Kazato were in a position to mount privateer type campaigns outside Japan, whilst Kuwashima for example tried but struggled for funds. The likes of Hoshino, Hasemi, Takahashi, Kitano and many, many others had plenty of racing to occupy them in Japan of course.    

 

I've heard personal anecdotes of struggles with culture, language and not a little prejudice too. It can't have been easy. 

 

Interesting topic!

[DogEarred]

Tetsu Ikusawa used to run a Lotus 59B, if I remember, out of the workshop of a motor factor near Wembley.

As a teenager I used to pass by occasionally & nod hello to him, too scared to try a conversation when he smiled back.

The car was white in colour with red circles, mimicking the Japanese flag.

He used to mix it near the front in those fantastic F3 'slipstreamer days' but don't remember him winning very often

& his F2 results were not fantastic. I didn't realise he was a privateer so he did well overall.

 

Although not really a pioneer, Takuma Sato was arguably the best Japanese driver in F1 & if not, was certainly good value as

he always tried hard. A little too hard sometimes. A trait he did not lose in Indycar either.

[GMiranda]

I didn't think that Hoshino drove very much in Europe. I felt that he was very good but he seemed to want to stay in Japan. Or maybe I have that wrong.

 

Yes, both Hoshino and Hasemi had deals with Japanese teams, so they barely raced in Europe, but they were the pioneers in F1.

[GMiranda]

I didn't focus on 2-wheels, even if I'd like to discover more about it, but I feel I ahven't enough knowledge to start a discussion on it, so I chose to look for the 4-wheel scenario.

Most of those drivers were engaged with Japanese teams, and their rich Formula and Sportscar/Touring car scenario, plus the prize money and their wages there, probably convinced them a switch to Europe wasn't properly valuable. But they were pretty talented I presume.

[chunder27]

Mir

 

I wasnt picking a fault wth your post at all, more adding to it.

 

Very few Japanese drivers have really raced full time in Europe, despite the opposte being true and in big numbers in the 90's with plenty of nationalities racing over there.

 

I think culture is a huge thing, it's so difficult for Japanese to get used to Europe and our way, but we seem to manage to cope over there.

 

I would say Takuma Sato is perhaps the best example, but he almost came across as British!!

 

there were plenty of bike racers before Ueda, Sakata and Wakai, but none really stayed.  Harada struggled for years, and was very quiet, but learned Italian, as did Norick Abe learn Spanish i think, and spent all of his major career in Europe

[GMiranda]

I wasn't meaning it, instead I think it adds a lot to the post, because motor racing includes both 2 and 4 wheels.

The cultural side is something that attracts me, as well as the human side of racing in general; but I think it isn't easy to ask them for it.... Oriental cultures are quite different (I have huge interest in the rich hsitory of the Oriental Civilizations, mainly the Steppe Empires), and I presume it may have been a deeply important fact.

[Doug Nye]

Let's hear it perhaps for John Sprinzel, 'Nippon Racing' Isuzu Bellett at Crystal Palace for instance, 1965 - and Nobuo Koga, Honda S600 and later Koga Mazda 1000 Coupe, 1965 and 1967 Nurburgring 82- and 84-Hours...?

 

DCN

[stephenS800]

Have a look at http://spa-sofia-lie...cars/honda.html 

Honda S500 and Honda S600  Four cars (all lefthanders) were shipped in August 1963 to Belgium via Antwerp. Two S500 were intended for training and testing while the two other cars were scheduled for the actual Liège-Sofia-Liège rally. They were white with hardtop and black interior.

[PZR]

....and Nobuo Koga, Honda S600 and later Koga Mazda 1000 Coupe, 1965 and 1967 Nurburgring 82- and 84-Hours...?

 

DCN

 

Yes, Koga first took part in the '63 Marathon co-driving a Honda S600 with Giichi Suzuki. Sadly an accident in the event cost Suzuki his life.

 

Koga's outing in the '68 event was in a factory Mazda Cosmo Sports 110S, along with Yoshimi Katayama (who passed away earlier this year by the way) and Masami Katakura. You could draw a nice line from those pioneering Rotary-powered racing cars to Mazda's victory in the Le Mans 24hrs race of 1991 with the 787B.

[Perruqueporte]

Tetsu Ikusawa used to run a Lotus 59B, if I remember, out of the workshop of a motor factor near Wembley.

As a teenager I used to pass by occasionally & nod hello to him, too scared to try a conversation when he smiled back.

The car was white in colour with red circles, mimicking the Japanese flag.

He used to mix it near the front in those fantastic F3 'slipstreamer days' but don't remember him winning very often

& his F2 results were not fantastic. I didn't realise he was a privateer so he did well overall.

 

Although not really a pioneer, Takuma Sato was arguably the best Japanese driver in F1 & if not, was certainly good value as

he always tried hard. A little too hard sometimes. A trait he did not lose in Indycar either.

I remember being very impressed by Tetsu Ikusawa in F3 with his Lotus 59 - he was competitive in those rather "wild" F3 fields, without appearing to driving in a wild manner.

 

Christopher W.

[BRG]

Yes, at the time, I thought that Tetsu was the real deal who would herald a flood of Japanese stars.  But it petered out and the flood has never been more than a trickle.

[GMiranda]

His sponsorship ran out? And what happened to Kazato? Was he in Europe at the moment of his awful crash and death?

[bill p]

No mention of Aguri Suzuki?

He finished 3rd in the 1990 Japanese GP, the first top three finish for a Japanese driver in GPs

Edited by bill p, 28 September 2016 - 18:01.

[GMiranda]

I was considering the previous generation only. Sure Suzuki, Katayama and Noda also had their contribute

[Rupertlt1]

Let's hear it perhaps for John Sprinzel, 'Nippon Racing' Isuzu Bellett at Crystal Palace for instance, 1965 - and Nobuo Koga, Honda S600 and later Koga Mazda 1000 Coupe, 1965 and 1967 Nurburgring 82- and 84-Hours...?

 

DCN

 

Here is #78 John Sprinzel at Crystal Palace, Whit Monday 7 June 1965:

 

https://www.stilltim.../aaj/aaj527.jpg

 

Bruce McLaren at Goodwood, Monday 19 April 1965.

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 05 February 2024 - 05:19.