25 replies to this topic

[f1steveuk]

The proverbial "down the pub" converstaion, as I was asked by non racing types (yes, they do exist!), "so what is a racing gearchange".

 

My own opinion is that the definition has changed through the years, depending on the technology of the time, bevel cut gears, synchro's, straight cut gears etc etc.

 

An old chap I once drove in the museum's Bentley 1926 Red Label, caught me going into nuetral without the clutch,and then clutching to go up, reducing the "work" involved, "ah" he said,"a racing change". Really? Clutchless changes up and down, hardly quicker sometimes (well down anyway) but a racing change?.

 

I recall Mike Hawthorn saying "I was using racing gear changes", so in his period, does he mean "standard" heeling and toeing, or something else?

 

As I was once told by none other that Jackie Stewart, "a racing change isn't a faster, hurried change, it's a normal, smooth changing of the gears, but done more quickly!"

 

Go on then, I'm all ears!!!

 

[chr1s]

This is what Niki Lauda had to say on the subject,  taken from his 1975 book The art and science of Grand prix driving :-

"Like all Formula gearboxes this one (Ferrari 312T) is non-syncromesh, which means that I can change up like lightning without declutching, but I have to double-declutch and touch the accelerator when changing down"

[john aston]

It's a term used by bad novelists like Alistair Maclean (other rubbish writers are available )to describe their chisel jawed hero's driving prowess.

 

If I had to define the term at all  it's quick up changes and throttle blipped (double or single declutch ) downchanges. Lauda is the right person to mention above- the fastest and neatest gearchange I have heard.    

[chunder27]

I do recall an era when gearchanging was fully manual, but only a few years, 89 was the last time I heard it at Silverstone and the differences between those that were good and not so was interesting.

 

Prost was the best, Nannini the roughest!!

[2F-001]

I'm rather with John on this - until the quote mentioned above by Steve, I can only recall such terms being used by people who knew little-or-nothing about cars, driving or motor racing. Or, as John mentions, someone like Alistair Maclean who seemingly knew almost nothing about anything at all beyond satisfying the demands of his publisher (presumably profitably which does I admit make him smarter than I !).

Currently, I'd guess it means a change initiated by the driver but effected remotely by some electronic/mechanical/hydraulic system on the driver's behalf. (Cynical mode off...).

Another one is cars with sporting pretensions - or even real sporting potential - described (perhaps for sale) as having racing suspension. What does that mean? A set-up wholly devoted to performance and not comfort? A higher degree of adjustability? Or dampers that require frequent rebuilds? (Apologies, cynical mode did not quit instantly...!)

Edited by 2F-001, 05 October 2016 - 11:27.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I do recall an era when gearchanging was fully manual, but only a few years, 89 was the last time I heard it at Silverstone and the differences between those that were good and not so was interesting.

 

Prost was the best, Nannini the roughest!!

 

I've always been slightly baffled that the Honda F1 engines were H-patterns(at least going by onboards) until their final year with Marbloro-era McLaren. So even in 1992 Senna was having to do it the 'proper' way but Ferraris and Williams-Renaults had wheel paddles.

 

And just to make it more fun, Honda's engineers did an internal working project F1 design for the 93 rules. So 3.5 V12 with paddles. https://en.wikipedia....5X_.28RC101.29

 

Maybe it was a McLaren gearbox? Even so...

[chr1s]

 Lauda is the right person to mention above- the fastest and neatest gearchange I have heard.    

I'll second that!

[dolomite]

I'm fairly sure that the 1991 McLaren was the last with a manual gearbox. They introduced a paddle shift box on the 1992 car.

[chunder27]

I think they used a paddle shift in some races in 93 but not all

[Nemo1965]

I do recall an era when gearchanging was fully manual, but only a few years, 89 was the last time I heard it at Silverstone and the differences between those that were good and not so was interesting.

 

Prost was the best, Nannini the roughest!!

 

Jody Scheckter once said something interesting about Gilles Villeneuve; that he (Gilles) did not release the throttle during gear-changes and that it hurt his engine, especially when, like in Monaco, you would go over a bump when changing gears. According to Scheckter, this resulted in more engine-failures for Gilles. The same was said about Jacques Lafitte, by the way..

 

Somehow a pity these things don't seem to matter any more...

[f1steveuk]

Though the term "racing gearchange" suggest a fast change, whereas the paddle shifts didn't come into existence to speed up gear changes the sake of speedy changes, John Barnard was trying to reduce the period between leaving one gear and getting into another one to cancel out speed loss through mechanical drag.

 

In summary, no such thing as a "racing gearchange"!

[E1pix]

Jean-Pierre Jarier's up shifts were noticeably much faster than anyone I ever saw, whether in F1 or Can-Am.

But Lauda's were really quick as well, and clearly less toxic to the box.

[john aston]

And Jarier's downchanges were utterly dreadful- quick driver though for all that .

[E1pix]

Ha, we might have some déjà vu going!

Seems we've been through this before. :-)

Edit: And yes, he was fast. His performance in Canada, 1978 was the most-spirited F1 drive I've ever seen.

Edited by E1pix, 07 October 2016 - 20:02.

[Terry Walker]

Ah nostalgia!  To me, harking back to my younger days (much younger days!) a "racing change" was a downshift with matched revs. But, since I was 18 or so, what did I know?

[GreenMachine]

I thought is was an upshift without lifting ... but like you Terry, I was a mere youff then

[uffen]

Perhaps a racing change is simply "a gear change made while racing."

 

Oh, and GreenMachine, I always thought an up-shift without lifting was a "power shift."

[E1pix]

I thought a "racing change" was the result of a really close call.

[Charlieman]

I recently read a couple of Ian Fleming books in succession. Dreadful writer, even if my hero Raymond Chandler reckoned that he was good.

 

When Fleming wrote Bond, Bond used a racing gear change. Perhaps a necessity for the vintage Bentley (probably supercharged) he used until it was lost in an accident. Afterwards, Bond bought a Bentley Continental with a custom body (spooks do not make themselves exceptional!). The Aston Martin was a company car.

[Hamish Robson]

With modern "manual" gearchanges in a racing or rally car with a "dog" box, especially a sequential unit, the clutch is basically redundant once the car is moving, requiring merely a lift of the throttle on downshift to avoid too much jerkiness - if the driver can be bothered. Modern 'boxes are designed to withstand all this abuse.

 

Of course any modern F1, WEC, WRC etc car with an assisted shift has no need for such inconvenience...

 

Hamish (WEC/WRC transmission designer)

[kayemod]

I recently read a couple of Ian Fleming books in succession. Dreadful writer, even if my hero Raymond Chandler reckoned that he was good.

 

When Fleming wrote Bond, Bond used a racing gear change. Perhaps a necessity for the vintage Bentley (probably supercharged) he used until it was lost in an accident. Afterwards, Bond bought a Bentley Continental with a custom body (spooks do not make themselves exceptional!). The Aston Martin was a company car.

 

I read all the Bond books as a teenager, when each new one appeared, there was always a long waiting list for them at Hoylake public library. I haven't read much Fleming since then, but I've always thought he was pretty good given his subject matter. Back then, I was very surprised when once my English master told the class that he approved, he'd read them all himself.

[john aston]

When I bought a KIndle I  thought I would try an easy read to get used to it. So I got Dr No for about £1 - and actually it was far better than I had thought it would be. I read all the Bond books before I was 16 so my childhood enjoyment of them was really not going to be a pointer after decades of reading proper books. But it was great- actually very well written in a spare but effective style - coming from his time at the ..err.Times of course.People like Maclean and Bagley(and I dare say their modern contemporaries who write about SAS men endlessly) were ghastly drivel.

Edited by john aston, 09 October 2016 - 06:41.

[Odseybod]

When I bought a KIndle I  thought I would try an easy read to get used to it. So I got Dr No for about £1 - and actually it was far better than I had thought it would be. I read all the Bond books before I was 16 so my childhood enjoyment of them was really not going to be a pointer after decades of reading proper books. But it was great- actually very well written in a spare but effective style - coming from his time at the ..err.Times of course.People like Maclean and Bagley(and I dare say their modern contemporaries who write about SAS men endlessly) were ghastly drivel.

 

Totally agree, John. The stealthy car chase across France into Switzerland is surely written by someone who knows the route well and I even liked the chapter title "Long Tail on a Ghost" (Goldfinger has an enhanced Silver Ghost, not the film's PIII). Only slight blip is that Bond's car is described as a DB3, whereas it's more likely to be a DB Mk III - in which, of course, he does racing gearchanges, to bring us back on topic.

 

Final Kindle-reading note - I've just finished the 5th of John Buchan's Hannay stories on the Kindle, from 39 Step onwards each a little different and highly recommended. Not much automotive content, though. 

[kayemod]

Only slight blip is that Bond's car is described as a DB3, whereas it's more likely to be a DB Mk III - in which, of course, he does racing gearchanges, to bring us back on topic.

 

 

That's easy to explain. Bond made a slight detour en route to do the Le Mans 24 hours with his DB3, though his name doesn't seem to appear in the race records.

[Charlieman]

The stealthy car chase across France into Switzerland is surely written by someone who knows the route well...

 

I got a different impression. I felt that the intense detail is padding to boost the word count and is borrowed from a Michelin guide. There's a short story where two pages read as if they're lifted from an auction catalogue. When Fleming writes about chess games or Canasta he manages to make the subjects interesting (and quite funny) so perhaps he is a better writer than I previously gave him credit.

[Odseybod]

I got a different impression. I felt that the intense detail is padding to boost the word count and is borrowed from a Michelin guide. There's a short story where two pages read as if they're lifted from an auction catalogue. When Fleming writes about chess games or Canasta he manages to make the subjects interesting (and quite funny) so perhaps he is a better writer than I previously gave him credit.

 

Dunno, may be right about the padding. But he talks at one point of a certain town en route (sorry, can't remember which), where Bond could watch a junction across a river, to keep track of which way Goldfinger turns - and that sounded to me like personal experience rather than Michelin guide info. Nowadays, of course, with Google Streetview, it's a lot easier to give that knowledgeable impression.