74 replies to this topic

[Wes350]

Yes, yes... it all shouldn't be necessary in a perfect world.

 

But DRS/P2P are here to stay so pick your poison.

 

My preference:

 

Push to Pass

 

10 uses per race

Must be within 1 second of the car

Can be used to defend against P2P

10 seconds per activation

60-80 additional HP

 

Cannot use first two laps at the start of a race or restarts. (safety car, red flag, etc.)

 

edit: Added the 1 second attack w/defense use provisions, to stop drivers from using the button on in and out laps to pass during pit stops...

Edited by Wes350, 21 December 2016 - 23:26.

[pdac]

None should be necessary and none should be available, so no vote.

[Marklar]

P2P IndyCar style. Though I'm not sure if it's helping as much in F1, but it's more fair.

[SenorSjon]

None

If I had to choose:
DRS unlimited or a fixed amount of time (like 2.000 seconds/race or so). No detection zones and use whenever you want, but only at full throttle.

[MikeV1987]

None preferably but voted for the Super Formula option.

[Mat13]

DRS- limited only by the size of the driver's you-know-what's.

[FPV GTHO]

I'd prefer any form of push to pass. DRS can work, but it makes more of a difference at high speed. Push to pass makes more difference at low speed, so there's more opportunity IMO.

[Gorma]

P2P... Give the drivers freedom to use it anywhere, but limit the amount. 

[Peat]

DRS that slams shut when the cars are level. Zone lengths set based on free practice data so they're not too easy or useless.

yeah, please add another layer of complexity and BS.

Push to Pass is so much simpler, and fairer.

[Gorma]

DRS that slams shut when the cars are level. Zone lengths set based on free practice data so they're not too easy or useless.

There is no fix for DRS. 

[ArchieTech]

yeah, please add another layer of complexity and BS.

Push to Pass is so much simpler, and fairer.

Heh, I just hit delete when you posted that - was having second thoughts about the zone length calculation bit.

 

But I like the idea of the DRS that shuts as soon as it's neutralised the aero disadvantage. Push to pass feels even more artificial to me somehow, though that said I do like Indycar. Hmmm.

[Gorma]

Heh, I just hit delete when you posted that - was having second thoughts about the zone length calculation bit.

 

But I like the idea of the DRS that shuts as soon as it's neutralised the aero disadvantage. Push to pass feels even more artificial to me somehow, though that said I do like Indycar. Hmmm.

Push to pass is something that has been present in F1 cars for decades in one form or another.

[Kev00]

With current f1 aero and tyres I think DRS is a necessity. But P2P is much fairer, and I don't see it as false or gimmicky as its the same for every driver.

[FPV GTHO]

Heh, I just hit delete when you posted that - was having second thoughts about the zone length calculation bit.

But I like the idea of the DRS that shuts as soon as it's neutralised the aero disadvantage. Push to pass feels even more artificial to me somehow, though that said I do like Indycar. Hmmm.

When they first started using DRS, it was only supposed to be powerful enough to get a following car alongside a leading car just before braking, it was never supposed to give these slingshot defenceless passes. If they managed the zones like they used to, there wouldn't be a need to neutralise the advantage as soon as it's gained.

[FPV GTHO]

With current f1 aero and tyres I think DRS is a necessity. But P2P is much fairer, and I don't see it as false or gimmicky as its the same for every driver.

Aero yes, tyres no. If they were running on tyres not designed to degrade, they would be ever more reliant on DRS.

[pdac]

With current f1 aero and tyres I think DRS is a necessity. But P2P is much fairer, and I don't see it as false or gimmicky as its the same for every driver.

 

That's the point. If there were no DRS then there would be much more momentum in F1 to change the aero regs. By allowing any sort of overtaking assistance you're just maintaining the status quo rather than fixing the issue.

[Alonsofan007]

i'd say P2P once per lap like we had with KERS where drivers can use limited amount/lap where n when they need it.

[skicrack]

I answered DRS Variant in which I would like to see the trailing car to always use DRS until he gets within 1 second. This way the limitations of the cars are in some effect lessened and it stops the easy takeovers. In this instance it still needs drivers skill to pass the front running car and the cars stay closer together.

[Wes350]

Missed the first line of the first post did we...

 

Yes, yes... it all shouldn't be necessary in a perfect world.

 

...

 

 

None should be necessary and none should be available, so no vote.

 

 

So why even reply to the thread....

[Nathan]

DRS variant - The DRS on the overtaking car is closed once it is side-by-side with the car it is overtaking.

[senna da silva]

DRS variant - anytime and anywhere the driver wants it.

[Cornholio]

I voted DRS variant - use whenever the hell you want. If a driver has the car control to release it a fraction of a second earlier coming off a corner than his rival, or has the control and balls to deploy it through a high speed kink where others wouldn't, then all power to them. I realise it wouldn't do much to help overtaking but in all honesty I couldn't give a toss about that.

[THEWALL]

Little turtle shells to shoot at opponents...

[SPBHM]

DRS is silly because only one car (the one close behind) can use it, I know it's trying to "simulate" a slipstream or something, but it's the same as making the driver behind press a button that makes the engine of the car in front produce less power for a few seconds, pretty artificial, unfair.

if you want to make it more real, being limited by the times you can use per race but whenever you want is better, be it push to pass (engine power) or the wing thing (less drag).

[Afterburner]

Push-to-pass is much purer than DRS in terms of the rules which apply to it. As a mechanism I actually prefer DRS, but it's executed with the dumbest governing factors.

Maybe give the drivers 10 'DRS Laps' on which they get to use it whenever they want for the duration of the lap; activate it at any point during a lap and you use up a lap. As others have said, I like the idea of DRS being free use because it adds a risk/reward element, which is always nice in a contest of skill.

[MasterOfCoin]

Push to pass only works with similar/identical powered cars and chassis, would never work in F1 with all the variable iterations in engine and chassis. 

[HP]

None of them.

 

I just had an idea (brain fart?). Give a trophy for the driver with the most overtakes. And hand the one with most overtakes over the season a proper reward at the end of it too. DRS or P2P overtakes are not being counted towards the tally, and there are some rules needed. No see-sawing will be counted, and after starts, restarts, (V)SC there should be at least a lap where passing isn't counted, same goes for anything involving pitlane. If someone dives into the pits, and gets overtaken while still on the track doesn't count either.

 

If that seems too outlandish, at least lets consider how overtaking - because it is hard to do without help - can be proper rewarded. And while at it, reward proper defending too. Possibly even drivers in mid team cars can win then something meaningful. That's especially important when there is one dominant team, looking everyone else out.

Edited by HP, 22 December 2016 - 03:52.

[minime]

That's the point. If there were no DRS then there would be much more momentum in F1 to change the aero regs. By allowing any sort of overtaking assistance you're just maintaining the status quo rather than fixing the issue.

 

 

Nail hit firmly on head, why do all others fail to see this?             

[Muppetmad]

P2P works brilliantly in IndyCar, and it's immensely fair. All are in the same boat because all can use their P2P strategically in offence or defence. If you use up your P2Ps too early, you might be a sitting duck later. It's all about exercising good judgement. P2P is great.

 

DRS, meanwhile...

[thegforcemaybewithyou]

DRS for the leading car in the corner when the trailing car is close.

[kamikaze1]

What about DRS for the overtaking car, and Push to Defend for the leading car

[SenorSjon]

What about DRS for the overtaking car, and Push to Defend for the leading car

 

Rosberg tried Push to Defend in Spain and Austria.

[stewie]

Indycar style P2P. As someone else mentioned, it's a great tactical tool. DRS is just fly by overtaking.

[ConsiderAndGo]

Indycar P2P all day. You actually need to think carefully when to use, rather than mindlessly meandering past someone on a straight. 

[Frank Tuesday]

Continuously variable DRS, no limitation on where or when it can be used.

[Boing Ball]

Push to Pass. The extra fuel needed is taken from their limited race fuel, meaning there is a natural (self imposed) limit to the use of the p2p.

[sopa]

That's the point. If there were no DRS then there would be much more momentum in F1 to change the aero regs. By allowing any sort of overtaking assistance you're just maintaining the status quo rather than fixing the issue.

 

Actually the aero regs went through a significant change before 2009. And the main argument back then was to increase overtaking opportunities. But engineers still found a way, how to make these cars aerodynamically efficient, and thus hard to overtake.

 

I think before 2011 FIA & Co sort of gave up - "Hell, those aerodynamicists and modern technology is too smart. We can't outsmart them. Let's try something else."

[CoolBreeze]

I would have voted for none. Just make it old school. Let the drivers actually display some skill.

[ANF]

None. Or Push to Pass, Indycar/Superformula style: 7 uses per race. But not as powerful as Indycar's was in 2016.

[f1paul]

I liked the old KERS system, they should bring that back, somehow.

[senna da silva]

I would have voted for none. Just make it old school. Let the drivers actually display some skill.

 

If the drivers can use the DRS anytime they want it is ostensibly the same thing.

[Vielleicht]

If anything I would have to say push to pass IndyCar style, or even DRS but limited to a set number per race. How it is now feels like a formality, it gives overtakes too often and too easily. Having that element of choosing the most effective time to use them makes more sense and adds strategically.

 

However, if there's any chance of good racing without either feature, they should pursue it.

[FPV GTHO]

I liked the old KERS system, they should bring that back, somehow.

I can't remember the KJ limit on the KERS, but maybe they should limit the deployment to 3MJ of the battery through the ECU and 1MJ through a button on the steering wheel or some such.

[Atreiu]

Neither.

Plenty of power + severely limited electronics + somewhat agile and nervous cars; my 'overtaking formula'.

[Garndell]

Since there is no "None" option I voted for them all.  It should be a case of the better driver getting past or defending without having to use any kind of "aid".

[muramasa]

　

Pull to Yield with DES*

 

 

 

*Drag Escalation System

[William Hunt]

the IndyCar system for sure, it's much more strategic since a driver needs to carefully choose when to use it, DRS can be used every lap: nothing strategic about that

[PayasYouRace]

I'd like DRS if it was implemented properly to counter the dirty air problem. Thus:

 

• No zones, can be opened at any point on the circuit.
• Can be used on any lap in any weather.
• Will only open when within 1 second of the car in front.
• Will work on any car in front.
• Will close when car draws level.

I'm sure the technology exists for it to work like that. For me the worst part is that it can still be used when you're in front of the car you just passed, especially when there's one detection point and two zones. This way would also introduce a bit of driver skill and reward a bit of bravery.

 

I don't really like P2P.

[Kalmake]

They already have P2P-ish strategy with engine modes and fuel consumption. Too bad we don't see meters on screen like with the old KERS.

[A.Fant]

DRS- limited only by the size of the driver's you-know-what's.

 

 

DRS variant - anytime and anywhere the driver wants it.

 

 

I voted DRS variant - use whenever the hell you want. If a driver has the car control to release it a fraction of a second earlier coming off a corner than his rival, or has the control and balls to deploy it through a high speed kink where others wouldn't, then all power to them. I realise it wouldn't do much to help overtaking but in all honesty I couldn't give a toss about that.

 

Agreed. It irks me to no end if cars are designed with "locked away" potential that is only allowed under certain conditions. I would also prefer if the moveable aero wasn't restricted to the rear wing and especially if they could make the amount of downforce/drag gradually controlled by the driver. That would certainly make the cars difficult to drive once again as drivers have to try to use as little downforce as possible to go as fast as possible.