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Tommy Byrne´s "career management"


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#1 funformula

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 14:54

While waiting for the DVD release of the "Crash and Burn"-Movie (which I very much look forward to) I reread my copy of "Crashed and Byrned" recently.

 

What puzzled me is the meaning of the McLaren test to Tommy Byrne as his career deciding point.

I´m no native English speaker so I might miss the finer points somehow but I don´t understand why he didn´t try to get another drive in F1.

Seems to me that he was simply waiting for the F1 teams to ring him up and offer a well paid drive. Clearly the Theodore path would lead to nothing and to get the McLaren drive was a bit optimistic although Tommy Byrne was undoubtedly an outstanding talent and the hottest prospect at that time.

 

What about a Tyrrell drive for 1983 for example? There is no mention in the book if he´d asked Ken Tyrrell about a drive in 1983. Tyrrell had a reputation for talent spotting, didn´t need desperately a pay-driver for 1983, had five drivers having a shootout for the seat and finally selected Danny Sullivan.

Definitly a very good driver but probably not that much a natural talent than Byrne? OK, the choice may have something to do with the main sponsors interest in the US market but if Byrne had participated at that Tyrrell test and made a similar impression as in the McLaren test he might´ve been signed at the spot.

 

Byrne didn´t have a manager but didn´t he have friends who put him in the right direction for some sensible decisions?



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#2 Charlieman

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 15:10

Clearly the Theodore path would lead to nothing and to get the McLaren drive was a bit optimistic although Tommy Byrne was undoubtedly an outstanding talent and the hottest prospect at that time.

Driving for Teddy Yip has been the grave of many F1 careers. Just imagine how successful Patrick Tambay, Marc Surer or Keke Rosberg might otherwise have been...



#3 Alan Cox

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 17:29

Tommy is the subject of "Lunch with..." in the latest issue of Motor Sport

#4 Sharman

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 17:36

Tommy is the subject of "Lunch with..." in the latest issue of Motor Sport

George Best and Hurricane Higgins spring to mind

#5 funformula

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 17:44

Tommy is the subject of "Lunch with..." in the latest issue of Motor Sport


Thanks for the information, I will try to get the issue.

#6 ensign14

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 20:58

What about a Tyrrell drive for 1983 for example? There is no mention in the book if he´d asked Ken Tyrrell about a drive in 1983. Tyrrell had a reputation for talent spotting, didn´t need desperately a pay-driver for 1983, had five drivers having a shootout for the seat and finally selected Danny Sullivan.


The Lunch With...suggests a Tyrrell drive was his for the taking - if he could bring £1m in sponsorship.

#7 garoidb

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 21:43

The Lunch With...suggests a Tyrrell drive was his for the taking - if he could bring £1m in sponsorship.

 

I look forward to reading it. Did any of Tyrrell's drivers bring that much in sponsorship, though? Did Danny Sullivan?

 

I also wondered why he never really broke through in the US. I'm Irish and would have been keeping track of the various Irish drivers in F3, Indy Lights etc back then. I've read his book but he doesn't seem to have come as close to Indycar as he did to F1.



#8 funformula

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 21:57

AFAIK Sullivan didn't bring sponsorship with him but may have been the preferred choice of Benetton regarding their interests in the US market.
To get Benetton as main sponsor Tyrrell had to dump sponsorship from Denim.
Wonder if Benetton would've withdrawn their support if Tyrrell had chosen Byrne instead of Sullivan if (yes, to much if's) he had been as brilliant at testing a Tyrrell as he had been at testing the McLaren.
At least they may have kept the sponsorship from Denim.

#9 FLB

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 23:55

Interesting considering Benetton dumped Tyrrell for Euroracing Alfa Romeo in 1984.

 

Denim went to Williams and stayed for a while, so they obviously saw something worth the expenditure in F1.



#10 Updraught

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 01:34

With very few exceptions, just about everyone has had to pay for their first F1 drive. Even Senna and Schumacher. Mercedes-Benz paid for Schumacher, Garvin Brown paid for Sullivan.



#11 john aston

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 07:17

I'm sure yer man could have got a sponsorship deal with Stolichnaya Vodka - perfect brand ambassador ...Loved his response to Ron Dennis (recounted in 'Lunch With ' ) - 'What's R and D ?'  . Ronzo not amused...



#12 Mallory Dan

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 09:48

Wasn't Danny S an old friend/contact of Tyrrell, from when he first came to Europe to do FF?



#13 funformula

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 10:17

Yes, Danny Sullivan acted as a gofer for Tyrrell for a while and was supported by Tyrrell during his FF days in the late 70's.
Not actually with money but with a transporter as tow car and these kind of things.

#14 E1pix

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 19:19

A great storyline to F1.

We love Danny around here.

#15 charles r

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 18:22

Tommy is the subject of "Lunch with..." in the latest issue of Motor Sport

I found the "Better than Senna" subtitle rather bemusing...



#16 Michael Ferner

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 18:58

Yes, quite so. Was Byrne "undoubtedly an outstanding talent"? In his own memory perhaps, but not in mine. I also don't quite get how the OP can say of Danny Sullivan that he was "definitly a very good driver but probably not that much a natural talent than Byrne". I think Danny has proved many times over how much better he was. I'm not sure he even knows who Tommy Byrne was, but Byrne certainly knows Mr. Sullivan!

#17 Mallory Dan

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 19:56

I thought Tommy B an excellent racer, but not that outstanding. If we ignore his FF and 2000 history for now, he was good in F3 in '82, though with hindsight his opposition wasn't too special. In Euro F3 in the Ralt in 83, again he looked pretty good, but didn't destroy the field as might have been expected from a true superstar. With the Anson in 84 its difficult to judge, and his occasional one-off F3000 drives didn't suggest a fantastic and lost talent.

 

Good but no better than many of his contemporaries I'd venture. Such as Daly, Brundle, Wallace South etc etc were at least his equal I'd say.



#18 Michael Ferner

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 07:51

One may factor in his long Indy Lights career as well, where he was what could be described as "fast and erratic". On par, perhaps, with champions like Jon Beekhuis, Steve Robertson or David Empringham, but hardly any better. Definitely a promising young driver, but "outstanding"?

#19 funformula

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 11:53

Well, it might not be easy to judge Byrne. In his Indy Lights days he may not be totally focused/motivated/driven anymore. In his book he described, that his career was on a downfall from after the McLaren test onwards as he decided that it's party time from now on.
For sure he was far from being a complete race driver, he had the speed, the talent but lacked on other fields.
In total Danny Sullivan for example was the better/ more complete racing driver...he delivered, won top class championships and was capable to not let himself down when something not went his way.

But until the end of 1982 Byrne had a perfect career, won every championship he participated and set an amazing time with the McLaren. Outstanding at least in terms of raw speed...in my humble opinion.

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#20 Louis Mr. F1

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 03:49

"Crash and Burn"-Movie is coming to Toronto in Cinema in early April, I'd like to know what's your comment on this movie, if it's worth it to watch in cinema?  how's it compare with RUSH?  I am glad to hear there's another F1 related movie in cinema but not sure about its quality though, as I haven't heard much about it or being mentioned much.



#21 Vitesse2

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 11:35

"Crash and Burn"-Movie is coming to Toronto in Cinema in early April, I'd like to know what's your comment on this movie, if it's worth it to watch in cinema?  how's it compare with RUSH?  I am glad to hear there's another F1 related movie in cinema but not sure about its quality though, as I haven't heard much about it or being mentioned much.

http://forums.autosp...10#entry7770653 et seq



#22 Louis Mr. F1

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 17:53

thank you, I think I will give it a try and watch it on big- screen. 

 

for those in Toronto, this movie will be in theatre on April 7th / 8th and Tommy will be here as far as I know.



#23 f1steveuk

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:19

Sorry, a bit late to the debate, but as regards the "Better than Senna", I for one would say it's a distinct possibility. Having worked for a few teams, the acid test would be the lower formula. When most of the cars being raced are similar/the same, a good driver sticks out. As drivers progress, the differences between a good car and a bad car get more noticable, and start to mask a good driver. Both Senna and Tommy were head and shoulders (though not all the time) above the opposition in the lower formula. If you look at the McLaren test, the two were on par with each other, though in slightly different conditions. That Tommy did so well, even with a doctored car (and the evidence suggests that Senna was made aware of it), Tommy's performance was enough to get Senna to prevent any further TB's tests or any chance of him getting a drive there. Had Tommy then signed with anyone other than McLaren, he would have had to wait for a "leveller", such as a rain soaked race, to show what he could do with simple raw talent, and that was what Tommy had, raw talent. Had he had a manager/friend to whom he would listen, to polish that talent and allow for the other things required to  succeed, then we have the usual "if". I can think of many talented drivers who had the talent, but not the guidance, and Tommy sits in that gategory. You had to see him drive to see, he was on a whole different plane, something magazine articles, film and anecdote cannot tell you.



#24 racinggeek

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 20:10

AFAIK Sullivan didn't bring sponsorship with him but may have been the preferred choice of Benetton regarding their interests in the US market.
To get Benetton as main sponsor Tyrrell had to dump sponsorship from Denim.
Wonder if Benetton would've withdrawn their support if Tyrrell had chosen Byrne instead of Sullivan if (yes, to much if's) he had been as brilliant at testing a Tyrrell as he had been at testing the McLaren.
At least they may have kept the sponsorship from Denim.

 

Sullivan's racing patron for a number of years was Garvin Brown, as in Brown-Forman, distillers of Jack Daniels and numerous other whiskeys. I'd be pretty sure that some $$$ went Tyrrell's way to get Sullivan into the seat.



#25 bradbury west

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 20:29

For those of you in the U.K. with Virgin Media cable, Crash and Burn is on the list of films coming available from today on their film channel.
Roger Lund

#26 Vitesse2

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 20:41

Or if you have Sky or Freesat it's on BBC1 Northern Ireland in about 20 minutes!

 

If you don't have access to either Virgin or Sky/Freesat it's on BBC4 on Monday March 27th at 9pm and (for the insomniacs amongst you) on March 30th at 3.00am.

 

May not be on iPlayer though, as it's an outside production.



#27 nicanary

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 09:10

Or if you have Sky or Freesat it's on BBC1 Northern Ireland in about 20 minutes!

 

If you don't have access to either Virgin or Sky/Freesat it's on BBC4 on Monday March 27th at 9pm and (for the insomniacs amongst you) on March 30th at 3.00am.

 

May not be on iPlayer though, as it's an outside production.

I watched it last night on BBC NI. As the old saying goes "nothing to see here". He was simply born in the same mould as George Best and Alex Higgins, as has been said previously. Wouldn't listen, thought he could wing it.

 

Like the other two, you have to admit he enjoyed himself doing it. I doubt very much if a good manager would have been any use, if indeed anyone could be found who would want to manage him. There's no point arguing "he could have been the best" because it was never going to get to that. Self-destruction.



#28 bill p

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 10:48

...........That Tommy did so well, even with a doctored car (and the evidence suggests that Senna was made aware of it), Tommy's performance was enough to get Senna to prevent any further TB's tests or any chance of him getting a drive there.........

Any info on how the McLaren was "doctored" - set-up, tyres??

I was most impressed by his F3 win at the British GP weekend and the footage of his McLaren test.

Just a pity he was incapable of being reined in............

Bill P

Edited by bill p, 21 March 2017 - 13:08.


#29 f1steveuk

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 15:16

Bill, I am sure there's a thread on it somewhere, but it is now common knowledge that the McLaren mechanics at Silverstone for the test, were instructed to restrict the available throttle. I amnot going to try and remember the whole story, because as with all things, the devil is in the detail! It was only in recent years that the mechanic  who  actually made the "adjustment", confessed to Tommy what had gone on.

 

From an article that qoutes both Tommy and Ron Dennis;

 

"

On the day of his test he was pitted against Theirry Boutsen, with a number of other up-and-coming drivers sampling the car during the week. Boutsen went out first but came back complaining of understeer after setting a time of 1:10.9s. It was a respectable lap, and as the car was prepared for Byrne, the Irishman knew it would be a defining moment in his career.

 

"I badly wanted to show those f***ers from Theodore how wrong they were," recalls Byrne. "But here was Boutsen talking about understeer and he was a guy I respected as quick. But once I got in the car my worries completely dissolved. Yes, there was some understeer, but all I did was brake a bit earlier, turn in a bit earlier and get on the gas a bit earlier. Result: no understeer! The car was unbelievably good."

His best time of 1:10.1s was unbelievably good too. Although not directly comparable, it was the fastest time any McLaren had ever recorded at Silverstone, including the qualifying times set by Niki Lauda and John Watson in the same car at that year's British Grand Prix. If that wasn't enough, he had set three identical lap times of 1:10.1 on his final three laps. It was an astounding feat of consistency for such an inexperienced driver, surely there was another side to the story.

The truth is there was another side to the story, although it might not be quite what you'd expect. It turned out McLaren wasn't being completely honest with Byrne. One of its mechanics that day, Tony Vandungen, later spilt the beans: "My recollection is that we were instructed to give Tommy less than full throttle - and only Tommy, not the others. I honestly don't believe it was to screw Tommy, more to protect him and the car. This wasn't a show car, but it was an active race car, one of the team's pukka cars, and damaging it would not have been good. He then went very fast regardless and we all had a good laugh about it, thinking just how fast he could have gone."

But what about those lap times? Surely Byrne couldn't put in such impressive laps without full throttle. A witness at the test and one of Tommy's friends, John Uprichard, had a stopwatch that was telling a different story to McLaren's.

"I started timing him and he was going up to one second faster than what they were showing," said Uprichard. "I went to the team and asked them why the hell weren't they showing the proper times? By the end he was in the 1:09s. His last three laps I had down at 1:09.9s, 1:09.7s, 1:09.6s."

McLaren never did reveal why it didn't show Byrne's true times, but the bigger question was why it didn't offer him a drive. Ron Dennis has often been posed with the question, even more so after the autobiography's release, but always meets it with a stock response.

"I think most people who saw him race would agree that he had what it takes, in terms of the gift of naked car control, to go all the way. But perhaps he lacked some of the other necessary ingredients - the steely determination, the unflinching focus and the towering ambition that mark out the true greats. He was clearly quick - and, had his undoubted talent been matched by an equal quantity of the other traits a top racing driver requires, then he might have become a true great, and I would have been delighted if he had done so at a wheel of a McLaren. Sadly, it wasn't to be."


 

Edited by f1steveuk, 21 March 2017 - 15:42.


#30 bill p

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 16:03


Thank you for that most illuminating recollection

Again I note that it was a pity he couldn't be reined in and didn't have the necessary attitude to succeed.....

Bill P

#31 Tim Murray

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 16:12

The problem with an article like that is trying to sort the truth from the bullshit. Definite bullshit is the claim that Tommy went quicker than Lauda and Watson in qualifying for that year's Grand Prix, when that year's GP was at Brands and Lauda didn't race a McLaren in a Silverstone GP until the following year.

#32 garoidb

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 20:18

The problem with an article like that is trying to sort the truth from the bullshit. Definite bullshit is the claim that Tommy went quicker than Lauda and Watson in qualifying for that year's Grand Prix, when that year's GP was at Brands and Lauda didn't race a McLaren in a Silverstone GP until the following year.

 

Yeah, what is the explanation for that? Was there a 1982 test at Silverstone with Lauda (or Watson) at some point or is it completely misleading? By 1983, as we all know, the cars were completely different.

 

I hope they don't just mean that Tommy's speed at Silverstone was faster than others could manage at Brands Hatch!  :rotfl:  (just a joke, sorry).


Edited by garoidb, 21 March 2017 - 20:19.


#33 2F-001

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 21:59

And in case anybody was wondering (as I was, briefly) about another possible source of confusion, Silverstone's International Trophy was into it's F2 period by then...

#34 2F-001

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 22:26

Yeah, what is the explanation for that? Was there a 1982 test at Silverstone with Lauda (or Watson) at some point or is it completely misleading? By 1983, as we all know, the cars were completely different.
 
I hope they don't just mean that Tommy's speed at Silverstone was faster than others could manage at Brands Hatch!  :rotfl:  (just a joke, sorry).


It would be interesting to know if there had been a previous test there (I haven't had time to scan through the year's Autosport issues).

But... Lauda and Watson's practice times for that year's GP (at Brands) were 1:10.638 and 1:11.418; so, I suppose it's possible it's just as basic a mistake as that…

Edited by 2F-001, 21 March 2017 - 22:27.


#35 Tim Murray

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 04:21

Well, to be fair - Lauda and Watson must have tested at Silverstone during the year, so maybe it was their times from these tests that were being used for comparison.

I've dug out the Autosport reports on the relevant test session. This was laid on by McLaren to please their sponsors, Marlboro, and five young drivers were given the opportunity to have a run in a McLaren MP4/1B. Marlboro had sponsored that year's British F3 Championship and had guaranteed an F1 test to the top three in that championship, who were Tommy Byrne, Enrique Mansilla and Dave Scott. Also taking part were Stefan Johansson and Thierry Boutsen, who had had Marlboro backing in that year's F2 championship.

The session took place over three days (Tuesday 26 - Thursday 28 October 1982) and it was intended that each driver should have a full half day's testing, weather permitting. The weather over the three days was very variable, which affected some drivers more than others.

John Watson did some shake-down laps in hard rain on the Tuesday, with a best time around 1m 20s. Here's how McLaren's Tyler Alexander summed up the relative performances of the others:

... basically I was quite impressed with all of them. They all did what was asked of them, and they did a pretty reasonable job.

I don't think anyone should take too much notice of the times, because conditions varied tremendously. Johansson got the worst of the deal by far, in all honesty. He was the first to drive the car, on the Tuesday afternoon. It was still very damp at that stage, and extremely windy. He did a 1m 12.00s, which I thought very good in the circumstances. Boutsen was next out, and the track was getting much quicker, drying out quickly although there was still the odd damp patch. His best was 1m 10.90s.

Byrne got the best of it, really, because conditions were really good when he was out. He got down to 1m 10s. Dave Scott did 1m 11.00s late on Thursday afternoon, but it was getting a little dark by then, and I think he might have gone half a second quicker earlier in the day. And Mansilla's best lap was 1m 13.60s, which was quite impressive when you remember that he'd never even sat in anything like an F1 car before.

Reading between the lines, it might well be that Tyler and the McLaren people had been pissed off by Byrne, as he makes excuses for all of them except Tommy. However, after his Theodore drives Byrne had more F1 experience than most of the others. It seems unlikely to me that McLaren would have restricted the engine on safety grounds only when Tommy drove the car.

McLaren were running these five young drivers as an obligation to their sponsor, and as I understand it had no interest in signing any of them. There would have been no point in compromising Byrne's test - unless the conspiracy theory is correct and McLaren were out to get him.  ;)

#36 chunder27

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 18:23

Interesting film.

 

And as others have said, certainly in the Best, Higgins mould. Too cocky, and too unwilling to reign himself in, though thankfully unlike Best and Higgins shows signs of doing it now.

 

But a clearly very bitter man seemingly linked to money, not real success, I do see why, but it had very little to do with money why he was not picked for a top drive. 

 

I would have been fascinated to see if he had tested a Williams as I think Frank and Patrick would have embraced it far more than Ron. So I think in terms of his F1 experience he was unlucky, but nowadays that kind of talent would have been picked up and sorted earlier, but would his attitude have been any different?  I somehow doubt it.



#37 f1steveuk

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 09:51

In that vien, it has happened more recently, and funnily enough more so with McLaren, who have dispatched several drivers over the years to "clinics" to sort out anything that didn't sit well with the corperate attitude. Indeed I know of one driver who flat refused to indulge his Ronness to attend these "classes" and as a result, wasn't signed.  I suspect that had the system existed in Tommy's day, he wouldn't have embraced it either!



#38 BRG

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 10:22

Given that recent Mclaren drivers have included such pillars of corporate blandness as Kimi, JPM, Hamilton and Alonso, I suspect that this is a myth - probably invented by someone who failed to secure a seat and needed an excuse.



#39 f1steveuk

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 12:04

Not a myth, and if I named him, you'd understand in an instant! Not always the corperate thing either. Heidfeld was sent for skin treatment as Ron thought he wouldn't look good on camera out of the car...................................................


Edited by f1steveuk, 23 March 2017 - 12:05.


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#40 chunder27

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 12:19

Some of this stuff is a little ridiculous isn't it?

 

I remember reading an excerpt from one of Roebucks champions books about Niki in 85 announcing his retirement in Austria.

 

And Ron being fairly rude about the whole thing and putting the team first etc, at a time where it was nothing to do with this, merely acknowledging Niki and his contributions and achievements.

And Nigel summed it up perfectly by saying he was at Monza in 76 watching Niki gingerly pull a blood soaked balaclava off his head, that was the thought that came into his mind watching Dennis be all "company."

 

Can't think of a better way to sum up why a guy like Byrne would have won races and whatever he was asked to do, but would never have been good enough for Ron.

 

Yet he was quite happy to employ Kimi who for me is one of the rudest, most arrogant men to ever have been in F1, and early on Mika who was fine, but a little hard to like initially. I was often wondering if Ron had a preference! lol



#41 ensign14

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 12:37

Reading between the lines, it might well be that Tyler and the McLaren people had been pissed off by Byrne, as he makes excuses for all of them except Tommy. However, after his Theodore drives Byrne had more F1 experience than most of the others.

 

 

It's worse than that; they not only make excuses for everyone else, but openly say Byrne was fastest pretty much because he had the best conditions.  It smacks a bit of Dragoni bigging up Bandini for being a commanding follower of Surtees.

 

I'm not sure half-a-season in a rubbish Theodore is that much prep for a McLaren as well.  Better off with a season in F2 for that.  Does suggest Byrne was at least potentially on a par with Boutsen and Johansson. 
 



#42 chunder27

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 14:33

Oh I think pace wise he was on a par with far better than that.

 

Though his career in America would suggest it took a definite dip after this!



#43 Charlieman

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 20:36

If you are racing a Ralt F3 and the car you drove last month is beating you, you may question how your car is prepared or if you are driving a lemon.

 

If you are driving a Theodore F1 car, the only version which might exist, show some dignity and respect. The car was built by technicians and engineers doing their best on the money. On the pit lane, the team employed people who had actually won an F1 race. Tommy Byrne, you didn't respect the blokes who put the "piece of ****" Theodore on the track, blokes who were winners. 



#44 PeterElleray

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 21:26

Good post, lots of good  dedicated people in teams running at that end of the grid in those days. Best way of not getting the team on your side is to rubbish the car in public. Next best way is to offer unconstructive critiscm in private.



#45 Nemo1965

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 21:45

It was a good film, Crash & Burn, the only objection was there was a lot of hearsay, about McLaren and Dennis in particular. I think the above posted quote of Dennis describes perfectly why Byrne, despite all his speed, was not chosen by McLaren. I don't understand why that answer does not suffice.

 

Despite that, the film gave me a new respect for Tommy's achievements. His story reminds me somewhat of Jos Verstappen, who was raised in a trailerpark, but had the luck to get sponsorship from Phillips. If people of that background get to F1, even for a while, it is a great achievement.



#46 Charlieman

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 21:46

When Tommy Byrne blew off about the Murray Taylor Ralt, it was ugly. But it worked. Murray Taylor racing -- with Ron Tauranac -- gave him the best possible Ralt.



#47 LittleChris

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 23:18

I think Twinny made a short appearance in the film didn't he - part where Tommy was trying his old Ralt

#48 David Beard

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 00:47

I think Twinny made a short appearance in the film didn't he - part where Tommy was trying his old Ralt

  

I thought I caught a glimpse of him in a period shot, complete with mullet hair do.



#49 john aston

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 07:33

I loved the  film , so evocative of an era when I spent a lot of time in FF1600 and F3 paddocks(and how scuzzy they look now !). Byrne was a tragedy in the classical Greek sense - a man with a great talent but a fatal flaw. He never was going to make it to the top without developing different a personality traits - and the question is could he have he done so ? We know he should have been  successful in F1 but we thought the same about Dave Walker and Jan Magnussen....   



#50 kayemod

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 11:37

It was a good film, Crash & Burn, the only objection was there was a lot of hearsay, about McLaren and Dennis in particular. I think the above posted quote of Dennis describes perfectly why Byrne, despite all his speed, was not chosen by McLaren. I don't understand why that answer does not suffice.

 

Despite that, the film gave me a new respect for Tommy's achievements. His story reminds me somewhat of Jos Verstappen, who was raised in a trailerpark, but had the luck to get sponsorship from Phillips. If people of that background get to F1, even for a while, it is a great achievement.

 

I'm an unashamed admirer of Ron, in many ways he did as much to transform F1, admittedly not always for the better, as Bernie. I think we all have a prety good idea of what he's like though, and regarding McLaren and Tommy Byrne, this quote from Johnny Herbert's biography simply confirms what many of us thought.

 

"... when I was finally called into Ron's office, the first thing he said to me was "Right Johnny, we're going to have to change you. No more of this laughing and joking, that's not the McLaren way. With us it's all about professionalism and conduct".

 

In fairness to Ron, the meeting was arranged by Johnny's minders IMG, there was no job offer and no second meeting, but JH tells us he wouldn't have accepted a job anyway (as if!). And the grapes were probably sour...

 

Whatever the obvious Tommy Byrne personal shortcomings, I really can't see that even Ron Dennis would have balked at employing someone who he thought could win races for him. Never place too much credence on a story you only ever hear one side of.