4012 replies to this topic

[Risil]

Please use this thread to continue discussing how Red Bull drivers Daniel "Dan" Ricciardo and Maximilian "Max" Verstappen are getting on this season.

 

Bonus points for not talking about disgusting ways of drinking champagne on the podium.

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

First.

[Risil]

First.

 

Think you'll find that was me.

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

Think you'll find that was me.

No, you are third 

[Risil]

Enough games.

 

I feel like we have so far learnt basically nothing about Daniel Ricciardo and Max Verstappen so far this season. Whenever Verstappen looks like he's getting ready to do something extraordinary, his car breaks down. Daniel Ricciardo looks fast enough on his bad days that he could win a championship should his car be quick enough, but it isn't. Neither driver is under above-average pressure to perform as they're not likely to win or get sucked into the midfield if they have an off-day.

 

Is there anything to discuss?

[PlatenGlass]

Is there anything to discuss?

No. I think this thread will probably just die out...

Edited by PlatenGlass, 18 June 2017 - 17:35.

[f1paul]

This will give us at least 50 more pages for sure. 

 

[f1paul]

For those who haven't seen yet

 

 

[Kao18]

Enough games.

I feel like we have so far learnt basically nothing about Daniel Ricciardo and Max Verstappen so far this season. Whenever Verstappen looks like he's getting ready to do something extraordinary, his car breaks down. Daniel Ricciardo looks fast enough on his bad days that he could win a championship should his car be quick enough, but it isn't. Neither driver is under above-average pressure to perform as they're not likely to win or get sucked into the midfield if they have an off-day.

Is there anything to discuss?

Dont agree. We have learnt quite a lot already and by saying we havent people are not doing Max justice imo. Also China from last to the podium in the 'semi' wet including passing his team mate was pretty extraordinary.

Max is clearly ahead (so far) which shows in the driver ratings up until now.

[zanquis]

Enough games.

I feel like we have so far learnt basically nothing about Daniel Ricciardo and Max Verstappen so far this season. Whenever Verstappen looks like he's getting ready to do something extraordinary, his car breaks down. Daniel Ricciardo looks fast enough on his bad days that he could win a championship should his car be quick enough, but it isn't. Neither driver is under above-average pressure to perform as they're not likely to win or get sucked into the midfield if they have an off-day.

Is there anything to discuss?

Daniel looks always fast enough that if you give him a solid car that can win races he will fight for the championship, but the difference is that with a said car he would be trailing Max.

We have Ferrari and Mercedes at the front and Verstappen is the only car that has really put pressure on them, you could see the prove clearly in Australia, Monaco and Canada. When they pit is often influenced by Max and not Daniel so much. Verstappen does not have the car to really fight them but on race day they feel the heat from him behind them.

[RPM40]

you could see the prove clearly in Australia, Monaco and Canada. 

 

You must have been watching a different Monaco GP to me. 

[FullOppositeLock]

You must have been watching a different Monaco GP to me.

Were you watching a replay of the 2016 edition?

[phrank]

You must have been watching a different Monaco GP to me. 

He's right, Bottas responded to Max not to Daniel?

[RPM40]

He's right, Bottas responded to Max not to Daniel?

 

He did, but I saw Max make no real impression on the cars ahead. He was sitting right behind Bottas for much of the race, while Ricciardo was sitting a few seconds back and conserving his tyres for the overcut. Neither had a chance of passing on track.

[AlcidioG]

He did, but I saw Max make no real impression on the cars ahead. He was sitting right behind Bottas for much of the race, while Ricciardo was sitting a few seconds back and conserving his tyres for the overcut. Neither had a chance of passing on track.

You must smoke some good stuff. Red Bull sacrificed Max to maximize the team result. Which was understandable.
But Dan was not preserving tires for the overcut. He just lucked out due to TEAM strategy

[RPM40]

You must smoke some good stuff. Red Bull sacrificed Max to maximize the team result. Which was understandable.
But Dan was not preserving tires for the overcut. He just lucked out due to TEAM strategy

 

Yep, thats why he set the fastest lap of the race the second he had clean air -- Wasn't conserving at all.

[AlcidioG]

Yep, thats why he set the fastest lap of the race the second he had clean air -- Wasn't conserving at all.

And I'm sure he was conserving in Canada to fight the FIs. The tires were just holding up fine. I'm sure Max could have done the same. But keep watching different races then the rest of us I guess.

[RPM40]

And I'm sure he was conserving in Canada to fight the FIs. 

 

Bit of a straw man argument isn't it? Thats not even remotely relevant to the point I made...

[AlcidioG]

Bit of a straw man argument isn't it? Thats not even remotely relevant to the point I made...

Well, you seem to think he has a master plan. I.e. Conserving tires in Monaco. So I was just wondering what his master plan was in Canada according to you

[RPM40]

Well, you seem to think he has a master plan. I.e. Conserving tires in Monaco. So I was just wondering what his master plan was in Canada according to you

 

Get a podium? Seemed to work well. Still not relevant to the point I made.

[Slowersofterdumber]

And I'm sure he was conserving in Canada to fight the FIs. The tires were just holding up fine. I'm sure Max could have done the same. But keep watching different races then the rest of us I guess.

 

True. Staying out on used US was just faster than the first laps of a new SS in the stage of the race where top drivers happened to stop. Teams probably didn´t know for sure what would have been better so you can´t blame RBR for anything, but yep, I see no reason to think it was some kind of huge feat by the guys on the right strategy to be faster in these critical laps... they just were on what turned out to be the best strategy.

[ForzaMerc87]

Daniel looks always fast enough that if you give him a solid car that can win races he will fight for the championship, but the difference is that with a said car he would be trailing Max.

We have Ferrari and Mercedes at the front and Verstappen is the only car that has really put pressure on them, you could see the prove clearly in Australia, Monaco and Canada. When they pit is often influenced by Max and not Daniel so much. Verstappen does not have the car to really fight them but on race day they feel the heat from him behind them.

 

Thats a fine theory. Except, Daniel had a solid car last year and easily outscored Max. Lets also discount the screw ups in spain and monaco which scewed the points difference even more so.

 

The 2017 car is shades of the 2015 car. Still very delicately balanced, it also has less downforce hence we see tire temp issues. especially on lower df tracks. 

 

I expect the 2018 car to be far better as basically the 2017 is a testbed if anything for correcting wind tunnel discrepencies etc.

 

Hence im not really looking at 2017 as any sort of indicator between max and daniel.

Edited by ForzaMerc87, 19 June 2017 - 02:42.

[brokeracer]

I feel there is a lot of talk about number 2 this, number 2 that. Do you guys really think the team would implement a number 2 structure at 1/3rd way into the season when there have been virtually no representative races? Against the driver who is clearly ahead in the title? On one hand you hear Monaco wasn't representative as the strategy was apparently 'unfair', yet on the other you're advocating there being a team hierarchy based on a few race starts. For what purpose? So the team can secure 5th in the WDC? They're going to get that anyway.

[MastaKink]

I can't say I've seen anyone wanting a Number 1/2 system implemented, never going to happen anyway,especially this season with nothing to fight over. They're in a no-mans land in 3rd so no need to go down that route.

[RobG]

Conserving tires is imo a non-issue this year, and it surely has been this Monaco GP.
Yes Daniel set his fastest laps directly in clean air, but that doesn't prove that he was being smart the laps before. It just shows how much they were held up by Bottas, and that Daniel knew how valuable those clean air laps would be.
No reason to assume Max couldn't have done the same, or even have done better.

Monaco may seem a bit off in Zanquis list, but you also have to consider qualifying, which was pretty close, yet had a big gap to Daniel.

[JIndia]

Enough games.

 

I feel like we have so far learnt basically nothing about Daniel Ricciardo and Max Verstappen so far this season. Whenever Verstappen looks like he's getting ready to do something extraordinary, his car breaks down. Daniel Ricciardo looks fast enough on his bad days that he could win a championship should his car be quick enough, but it isn't. Neither driver is under above-average pressure to perform as they're not likely to win or get sucked into the midfield if they have an off-day.

at;m

Is there anything to discuss?

 

Like I allready said earlier this week, IMHO Max is making look Dan rather AVG atm. In China Max looked pretty extraordinary to me and the rest of the world. People still talking about Ricci doing his stuff in the second part of the race, AFTER he adjusted the settings on his front wing, which basically tells that me they had the same setup from the start of the race. Max from p16 to 3rd...Danny from p5 to 4th. Even with a different setup he couldn't pass Max. Danny in a faster car quick enough to win a championship?..I do believe Danny in a quicker car would make him look less AVG at the moment. Maybe, just maybe, Ricciardo wouldn't have to ride his luck as much as he is doing now...maybe he could do an overtake all by himself this year,.and score points on merit

 

 

He did, but I saw Max make no real impression on the cars ahead. He was sitting right behind Bottas for much of the race, while Ricciardo was sitting a few seconds back and conserving his tyres for the overcut. Neither had a chance of passing on track.

 

When Mercedes decided, as Toto Wolff said it himself, to defend on Max because they thought (rightfully so) he was the bigger threat, Max his race was gone. In Monaco, with no way to overtake other cars, it was impossible for Max to do anything. You needed the undercut here....or in this case..the overcut. I keep hearing you telling us Ricciardo saved his tyres...I never heared Ricci telling he saved his tyres. Why would have Ricciardo needed to save his tyres? If the strategy would have worked, Max would always have been in front of Danny. Max would have easily matched the pace of Ricciardo or Vettel in Monaco. How do I now?...because Max is the faster driver all season and this was the same in Monaco. It's rather funny the Ricci fans keep telling us after each Q3, when he finishes behind Max..."he could have gone a lot faster if it wasn't for this or that". But pls, keep telling us differently. Otherwise this season would still be as boring as it is right now. 

 

 

Thats a fine theory. Except, Daniel had a solid car last year and easily outscored Max. Lets also discount the screw ups in spain and monaco which scewed the points difference even more so.

 

Hence im not really looking at 2017 as any sort of indicator between max and daniel.

 

Daniel outscored Max easily? I remember Daniel needed to step up a notch or 2 because he was the slower one in the beginning of their races together. Also, just let's forget Max switched after 4 races to a team he didn't knew, a car he didn't knew with an enormous amount of preasure on him because the whole world looked at Verstappen. True Ricciardo made that step and had a better run compared to Max for a few races..but when you comparing them, let's say, during their last 6 races...Max won more Q's and Races and took this with him into the 2017 season. Spain scewed points? Do I have to remind you Ricciardo couldn't even manage his new set of SuperSofts? He blew those up. Max last year, in a new car, had much higher highs and much lower lows. The higher highs is an indication that with the right material in the right conditions, Max can do things Ricci can't. That being said...I really can't remember a single race where Ricci was special. (maybe Monaco last year being the only RBR driver with an upgraded engine?)

 

All in all, Max the better driver, more talent with alot more time on his hands. 19 years young and allready in the top 4 bracket on the grid. Flashes of brilliance in what looks to be an average car. And Daniel?...looks just as AVG as the car he is driving, smuggling and picking up points where others can't because of mechanical failures, team strategies or 3rd party involvement. 

Senna made a brilliant quote: “Being a racing driver means you are racing with other people and if you no longer go for a gap that exists you are no longer a racing driver because we are competing.”

Maybe Ricci should read this...racing with other people and not bide your'e time waiting for other people to drop points due to mishaps.

 

Grtz JI

Edited by JIndia, 19 June 2017 - 05:27.

[zanquis]

Thats a fine theory. Except, Daniel had a solid car last year and easily outscored Max. Lets also discount the screw ups in spain and monaco which scewed the points difference even more so.

The 2017 car is shades of the 2015 car. Still very delicately balanced, it also has less downforce hence we see tire temp issues. especially on lower df tracks.

I expect the 2018 car to be far better as basically the 2017 is a testbed if anything for correcting wind tunnel discrepencies etc.

Hence im not really looking at 2017 as any sort of indicator between max and daniel.

In 2016 Dan outscored and outperformed Max that is very true except we are discussing the 2017 season here. 2017 where the car has MORE downforce, but the tires are very different from last year that is true. Max has seemed to grow a lot compared to last year this time and where 2016 Dan got pushed and stepped up his game, I would say 2016 was probably one if not the best year of his driving, 2017 Max seems to have upped the bar and Dan seems he can follow but not yet pass it yet.

[zanquis]

You must have been watching a different Monaco GP to me.

Did Bottas pit directly after Max to prevent a undercut yes or no? If yes that fully proves my point. If no then you must have watched the 2016 grand prix.

The fact that Dan unleashed his speed after this, just means he managed to trick/fool Mercedes by catching them off guard because... they didn't really watch him like they where watching Max

[JIndia]

Did Bottas pit directly after Max to prevent a undercut yes or no? If yes that fully proves my point. If no then you must have watched the 2016 grand prix.

The fact that Dan unleashed his speed after this, just means he managed to trick/fool Mercedes by catching them off guard because... they didn't really watch him like they where watching Max

 

They didn't....Toto said this himself during his Sky interviews

[zanquis]

Yep, thats why he set the fastest lap of the race the second he had clean air -- Wasn't conserving at all.

The thing is that every car in the top 5 until then was conserving their tires, cause the tires can last almost a race distance when conserved. Every car was waiting for the safety car to come until Max shaked things up. Dan and Seb after the pits used the faster tires and pushed as hard as they could knowing that because of the pits they didn't need to conserve anymore, they needed the overcut and switch before the tires go bad.

If Max didn't pit but we all waited for the safety car, most likely one of the Ferrari's would have lost a spot to a RedBull, which would have Max as he had track position. In other races a team can quickly box both cars making the second lose less then 10 seconds, in Monaco they can't

[AlcidioG]

The fact that Dan unleashed his speed after this, just means he managed to trick/fool Mercedes by catching them off guard because... they didn't really watch him like they where watching Max

Maybe that's his master plan. Make Max look good so everybody watches him, so he can sneak up on them and get the points. Maybe RPM40 can enlighten us as he sees and knows things the rest of us don't.

[DILLIGAF]

In 2016 Dan outscored and outperformed Max that is very true except we are discussing the 2017 season here. 2017 where the car has MORE downforce, but the tires are very different from last year that is true. Max has seemed to grow a lot compared to last year this time and where 2016 Dan got pushed and stepped up his game, I would say 2016 was probably one if not the best year of his driving, 2017 Max seems to have upped the bar and Dan seems he can follow but not yet pass it yet.

I think you've pretty much nailed it zanquis! Dan was exceptional last year, lifted his game when challenged by Max and rarely made a mistake.

Max has the edge so far this season imho. Whether it's because he's still improving as a driver or because he's more comfortable in the RB13 than Dan, it's hard to tell, but he's a little bit in front on my scorecard. As a Ricciardo fan, I obviously hope Dan can get the upper hand again.

I just wish both of them had a car that could compete for wins. Both expected 2017 to be a year where they were in the hunt for the WDC, but sadly I don't think RBR will be fighting for titles until F1 ditches the current engine formula.

[RPM40]

The thing is that every car in the top 5 until then was conserving their tires, cause the tires can last almost a race distance when conserved. Every car was waiting for the safety car to come until Max shaked things up. Dan and Seb after the pits used the faster tires and pushed as hard as they could knowing that because of the pits they didn't need to conserve anymore, they needed the overcut and switch before the tires go bad.

If Max didn't pit but we all waited for the safety car, most likely one of the Ferrari's would have lost a spot to a RedBull, which would have Max as he had track position. In other races a team can quickly box both cars making the second lose less then 10 seconds, in Monaco they can't

 

Kimi went faster after he pitted and he had open air all race, so its not really true to say that the undercut was wrong for everyone.

 

He had been running 17s for a long period at that point and could immediately run 15s on fresh tyres. 

 

The difference is simply that Ricciardo kept his tyres in good condition, may have been the same for Max, may not have been. No one can know.

[Kao18]

Kimi went faster after he pitted and he had open air all race, so its not really true to say that the undercut was wrong for everyone.

 

He had been running 17s for a long period at that point and could immediately run 15s on fresh tyres. 

 

The difference is simply that Ricciardo kept his tyres in good condition, may have been the same for Max, may not have been. No one can know.

 

Not on his outlap though which is crucial if you are trying an undercut and Raikkonens fastest lap on a fresh set was not even as fast as Vettels on 38+ old ultras which shows there was hardly any degradation.

 

Tyre conservation was a non story in Monaco: http://www.autosport...t.php/id/129772

[MastaKink]

You must smoke some good stuff. Red Bull sacrificed Max to maximize the team result. Which was understandable.
But Dan was not preserving tires for the overcut. He just lucked out due to TEAM strategy

 

 

They didn't sacrifice anybody, they didn't know which one was best. Bottas/Merc couldn't cover both, that was the entire point of splitting the strategy. It gave RB two bites at the same cherry(P3).

 

Their running order decided who got which one, they couldn't give Dan the under as Bottas can just ignore it and focus on Max so Max never gets the clean air to make an overcut work and the entire split strategy idea becomes pointless straight away and they only get one bite instead of the two.

 

Both drivers are smart enough to know which one was going to get which based on their running order, I'd be surprised if it wasn't talked about before hand as well so it seems reasonable to assume if they were running in that order as they're coming towards the pit window that Dan would have known he'd need to put some quali laps in when Bottas reacted to Max so looking after your tyres makes sense.

Edited by MastaKink, 19 June 2017 - 08:39.

[zanquis]

Kimi went faster after he pitted and he had open air all race, so its not really true to say that the undercut was wrong for everyone.

He had been running 17s for a long period at that point and could immediately run 15s on fresh tyres.

The difference is simply that Ricciardo kept his tyres in good condition, may have been the same for Max, may not have been. No one can know.

Offcourse Kimi went faster after he pitted.. despite driving slower tires. He was conserving tires before he pitted and tried to prevent Vettel from overcutting him after, but it was difficult as Vettel had the faster tires with sufficient tire life. As soon as the overcut was completed they consolidated. Sometimes I feel you often ignore all tactical play if it doesn't suit your narritive.

[Requiem84]

Maybe not mentioned enough is Max' fastest outlap of the race: basically the only lap Max did in free air in Monaco. 

 

Max' outlap was 1,6 seconds faster than Ricciardo's outlap (!). And even 0,3 faster than Vettel's outlap. Imo it showed Max had crazy amounts of pace in hand that race, but simply could not demonstrate it. 

 

The only counterargument one could bring to the table is that Max was eating up his tires by going that fast. 

 

However, the guys who have all the data stated the following (thanks to the link above Kao18)

 

Data from Thursday practice has led Pirelli to suggest teams could even opt to do the minimum required running of one lap on the super-soft in the 78-lap race, declaring "wear is not an issue, degradation is not an issue".

One scenario would be any driver starting outside the top 10 on super-softs offloading them as soon as the first lap, especially if there is an early safety car, while drivers could conversely start on the ultra-soft and hold out for a late safety car.

"We had zero degradation, more or less," Pirelli's F1 boss Mario Isola said.

[RPM40]

Offcourse Kimi went faster after he pitted.. despite driving slower tires. He was conserving tires before he pitted and tried to prevent Vettel from overcutting him after, but it was difficult as Vettel had the faster tires with sufficient tire life. As soon as the overcut was completed they consolidated. Sometimes I feel you often ignore all tactical play if it doesn't suit your narritive.

 

Likewise. Its pretty clear had Ricciardo got the undercut and jumped them both, we'd be hearing the same story in here.

 

The reality is the teams split the strategy, the drivers were aware of it and Ricciardo made his strategy work to get the podium. Its gone the other way before.

 

Remember the last race of 2016 at Abu Dhabi? Max wasn't even close in contention but the beneficial strategy actually got him ahead. That was a far more one sided weekend than Monaco was. Thats part of racing.

[Requiem84]

Likewise. Its pretty clear had Ricciardo got the undercut and jumped them both, we'd be hearing the same story in here.

 

The reality is the teams split the strategy, the drivers were aware of it and Ricciardo made his strategy work to get the podium. Its gone the other way before.

 

Remember the last race of 2016 at Abu Dhabi? Max wasn't even close in contention but the beneficial strategy actually got him ahead. That was a far more one sided weekend than Monaco was. Thats part of racing.

 

In 2016, one had to actually conserve tires to make a strategy work. 

 

Ric had some good opportunities that race to pass the cars on older tires ahead, but didn't pull it off. 

[RPM40]

In 2016, one had to actually conserve tires to make a strategy work. 

 

Ric had some good opportunities that race to pass the cars on older tires ahead, but didn't pull it off. 

if you say so. The end of the story was the 1 stop was a much better strategy and Max wasn't even close to Ricciardo, from memory he was almost a full pit stop behind.

 

Thats very different to Ricciardo being right on his tail at Monaco.

[SenorSjon]

Verstappen spun in AD, yet finished ahead of Ricciardo (he had a flatspot). 

[RPM40]

Verstappen spun in AD, yet finished ahead of Ricciardo (he had a flatspot).

Seem to be ignoring the different strategies.

Or is it the case of that when Max finishes behind the strategy is obviously to blame, but in the other instance that's just "by diving better"?

[Requiem84]

Seem to be ignoring the different strategies.

Or is it the case of that when Max finishes behind the strategy is obviously to blame, but in the other instance that's just "by diving better"?

 

One question always is whether a driver could make a strategy work.

 

In Spain '16, for me it was quite clear that Max could make the tires last longer than Ricciardo and therefore could make the strategy work. 

[SenorSjon]

Seem to be ignoring the different strategies.

Or is it the case of that when Max finishes behind the strategy is obviously to blame, but in the other instance that's just "by diving better"?

 

You can overtake in AD...

[RPM40]

One question always is whether a driver could make a strategy work.
 
In Spain '16, for me it was quite clear that Max could make the tires last longer than Ricciardo and therefore could make the strategy work.

No evidence of the contrary either. Ricciardo was stuck behind Rosberg.

Just like at Monaco there was no evidence Max could make the pace work.

It's the same situation, i actually think Abu Dhabi was far more one sided.

[zanquis]

Likewise. Its pretty clear had Ricciardo got the undercut and jumped them both, we'd be hearing the same story in here.

The reality is the teams split the strategy, the drivers were aware of it and Ricciardo made his strategy work to get the podium. Its gone the other way before.

Remember the last race of 2016 at Abu Dhabi? Max wasn't even close in contention but the beneficial strategy actually got him ahead. That was a far more one sided weekend than Monaco was. Thats part of racing.

I NEVER ignore the benefits from tactical play, it is what I like more than drivers, it is why weak plays bug me more than anything else.

Abu Dhabi was a special case where Max had a very unlucky first lap followed by a long first stint but most of all a race where Hamilton played with Rosberg to try and force an overtake. to call the weekend much more one-sided?? A bit weird, Max made his tires last longer than anyone expected, he drove them to the edge, that was less of a tactical play but more a forced play after his T1.

[zanquis]

Seem to be ignoring the different strategies.

Or is it the case of that when Max finishes behind the strategy is obviously to blame, but in the other instance that's just "by diving better"?

When a driver manages to make the tires last longer than the front drivers, while still having a better average of his first stint (which included spin) and overtaking, which demands more from tires and which put him so far behind in the first place, than his teammate on his second stint and only 2 hundreds of a second slower on his longer last stint, that is mostly drivers.

[zanquis]

No evidence of the contrary either. Ricciardo was stuck behind Rosberg.

Just like at Monaco there was no evidence Max could make the pace work.

It's the same situation, i actually think Abu Dhabi was far more one sided.

What are you talking about?? You are confusing now, Spain 2016? Monaco 2016, AD 2016? Ricciardo maybe was stuck behind someone at some points but that was never Rosberg. And when he had free track he instantly pitted.

[ForzaMerc87]

Like I allready said earlier this week, IMHO Max is making look Dan rather AVG atm. In China Max looked pretty extraordinary to me and the rest of the world. People still talking about Ricci doing his stuff in the second part of the race, AFTER he adjusted the settings on his front wing, which basically tells that me they had the same setup from the start of the race. Max from p16 to 3rd...Danny from p5 to 4th. Even with a different setup he couldn't pass Max. Danny in a faster car quick enough to win a championship?..I do believe Danny in a quicker car would make him look less AVG at the moment. Maybe, just maybe, Ricciardo wouldn't have to ride his luck as much as he is doing now...maybe he could do an overtake all by himself this year,.and score points on merit

 

 

 

When Mercedes decided, as Toto Wolff said it himself, to defend on Max because they thought (rightfully so) he was the bigger threat, Max his race was gone. In Monaco, with no way to overtake other cars, it was impossible for Max to do anything. You needed the undercut here....or in this case..the overcut. I keep hearing you telling us Ricciardo saved his tyres...I never heared Ricci telling he saved his tyres. Why would have Ricciardo needed to save his tyres? If the strategy would have worked, Max would always have been in front of Danny. Max would have easily matched the pace of Ricciardo or Vettel in Monaco. How do I now?...because Max is the faster driver all season and this was the same in Monaco. It's rather funny the Ricci fans keep telling us after each Q3, when he finishes behind Max..."he could have gone a lot faster if it wasn't for this or that". But pls, keep telling us differently. Otherwise this season would still be as boring as it is right now. 

 

 

 

Daniel outscored Max easily? I remember Daniel needed to step up a notch or 2 because he was the slower one in the beginning of their races together. Also, just let's forget Max switched after 4 races to a team he didn't knew, a car he didn't knew with an enormous amount of preasure on him because the whole world looked at Verstappen. True Ricciardo made that step and had a better run compared to Max for a few races..but when you comparing them, let's say, during their last 6 races...Max won more Q's and Races and took this with him into the 2017 season. Spain scewed points? Do I have to remind you Ricciardo couldn't even manage his new set of SuperSofts? He blew those up. Max last year, in a new car, had much higher highs and much lower lows. The higher highs is an indication that with the right material in the right conditions, Max can do things Ricci can't. That being said...I really can't remember a single race where Ricci was special. (maybe Monaco last year being the only RBR driver with an upgraded engine?)

 

All in all, Max the better driver, more talent with alot more time on his hands. 19 years young and allready in the top 4 bracket on the grid. Flashes of brilliance in what looks to be an average car. And Daniel?...looks just as AVG as the car he is driving, smuggling and picking up points where others can't because of mechanical failures, team strategies or 3rd party involvement. 

Senna made a brilliant quote: “Being a racing driver means you are racing with other people and if you no longer go for a gap that exists you are no longer a racing driver because we are competing.”

Maybe Ricci should read this...racing with other people and not bide your'e time waiting for other people to drop points due to mishaps.

 

Grtz JI

 

What? Dan Outqulified max and finished ahead of him in far more races. That is even despite monaco and spain screw ups. Better go check your facts.

[RPM40]

When a driver manages to make the tires last longer than the front drivers, while still having a better average of his first stint (which included spin) and overtaking, which demands more from tires and which put him so far behind in the first place, than his teammate on his second stint and only 2 hundreds of a second slower on his longer last stint, that is mostly drivers.

Tomato, tomato.

When a driver conserves his tyres in the first stint to run long and instantly run better pace than faster cars ahead it tends to result in good positions.

I didn't bring up Abu Dhabi to re-raise a debate about the nature of it, it's just funny how strategy seems to only ever benefit one side.