15 replies to this topic

[Mendel]

Okay, so theoretical situation:

 

6 drivers get a gearbox penalty in following order before qualifying

 

First, Hamilton gets a gearbox change and penalty

Shortly after that, Räikkönen gets a gearbox change and penalty

Shortly after that, Vettel gets a gearbox change and penalty

Then Bottas gets the same

Then Verstappen too

And finally, Hülkenberg gets the same

Everyone of those gets a 5 grid position penalty in that same order with drivers from 7th position forwards not getting any penalties in this theoretical example.

 

Q3 results

1 Hamilton

2 Räikkönen

3 Vettel

4 Bottas

5 Verstappen

6 Hülkenberg

7 Perez

8 Ocon

9 Vandoorne

10 Grosjean

(11 Palmer was 11th in Q2)

12th and onwards would not affect the starting order in this case I think

 

 

What would the starting order of these drivers be in this case for the race?

[GrumpyYoungMan]

The penatlies are applied in order they were notified. That's why some teams do it Tuesday!

[sopa]

2009 Japanese Grand Prix qualifying and subsequent application of penalties proved there was no logic and thus the penalty system is unexplainable.

[ANF]

     a   b   c   d   e   f   g 
 P1 HAM RAI VET BOT VER HUL HAM
 P2 RAI VET BOT VER HUL HAM RAI
 P3 VET BOT VER HUL HAM RAI VET
 P4 BOT VER HUL HAM RAI VET BOT
 P5 VER HUL HAM RAI VET BOT VER
 P6 HUL HAM RAI VET BOT VER HUL
 P7 PER PER PER PER PER PER PER
 P8 OCO OCO OCO OCO OCO OCO OCO
 P9 VAN VAN VAN VAN VAN VAN VAN
P10 GRO GRO GRO GRO GRO GRO GRO
P11 PAL PAL PAL PAL PAL PAL PAL

Maybe?

[Marklar]

The grid would stay exactly the same as it is, because they are moving the empty spots just at the end

Edited by Marklar, 15 July 2017 - 13:59.

[PiperPa42]

     a   b   c   d   e   f   g 
 P1 HAM RAI VET BOT VER HUL HAM
 P2 RAI VET BOT VER HUL HAM RAI
 P3 VET BOT VER HUL HAM RAI VET
 P4 BOT VER HUL HAM RAI VET BOT
 P5 VER HUL HAM RAI VET BOT VER
 P6 HUL HAM RAI VET BOT VER HUL
 P7 PER PER PER PER PER PER PER
 P8 OCO OCO OCO OCO OCO OCO OCO
 P9 VAN VAN VAN VAN VAN VAN VAN
P10 GRO GRO GRO GRO GRO GRO GRO
P11 PAL PAL PAL PAL PAL PAL PAL

Maybe?

My understanding as well

[markelov74]

First the penalties are applied in the order they were announced. Then once ALL the penalties have been handed, the grid closes up to fill up all the positions at the end.

Eg Austria 2016 - Rosberg and Vettel take penalties. Vettel goes first and drops to P9. Rosberg drops to P7. However, due to P4 still having nobody therr, everybody closes up, allowing Rosberg to P6.

[EthanM]

Okay, so theoretical situation:

 

6 drivers get a gearbox penalty in following order before qualifying

 

First, Hamilton gets a gearbox change and penalty

Shortly after that, Räikkönen gets a gearbox change and penalty

Shortly after that, Vettel gets a gearbox change and penalty

Then Bottas gets the same

Then Verstappen too

And finally, Hülkenberg gets the same

Everyone of those gets a 5 grid position penalty in that same order with drivers from 7th position forwards not getting any penalties in this theoretical example.

 

Q3 results

1 Hamilton

2 Räikkönen

3 Vettel

4 Bottas

5 Verstappen

6 Hülkenberg

7 Perez

8 Ocon

9 Vandoorne

10 Grosjean

(11 Palmer was 11th in Q2)

12th and onwards would not affect the starting order in this case I think

 

 

What would the starting order of these drivers be in this case for the race?

 

every penalty would be applied in the order it was received so in your example it would loop back to exactly the same grid

 

HAM gets penalty -> moves to 6th Rai on pole Hulk 5th

Rai gets penalty -> moves to 6th Vet on pole Hulk 4th

Vet gets penalty -> moves to 6th Bot on pole Hulk 3rd

Bottas gets penalty -> moves to 6th Hulk 2nd

Ver gets penalty -> moves to 6th Hulk on pole

Hulk gets penalty -> moves to 6th Ham back on pole on pole

[Mendel]

Ah okay, so I was slightly confused. Follow up question... if also Perez then got the same penalty as well before qualifying, he would start P12 since nobody ever dropped behind him due to their penalties?

Edited by Mendel, 15 July 2017 - 14:10.

[EthanM]

Ah okay, so I was slightly confused. Follow up question... if also Perez then got the same penalty as well before qualifying, he would still start P12 since nobody ever dropped behind him due to their penalties?

 

correct

[Mendel]

Okay, I'm not so sure it makes sense but I think I understand it now. Thanks! 

[EthanM]

yeah it can get complicated if you crank up the theoreticals. For example, in the scenario you laid out if Hulkenberg gets his penalty first instead of last Hunkenberg starts 11th and Perez is on pole 

[ANF]

First the penalties are applied in the order they were announced. Then once ALL the penalties have been handed, the grid closes up to fill up all the positions at the end.

Eg Austria 2016 - Rosberg and Vettel take penalties. Vettel goes first and drops to P9. Rosberg drops to P7. However, due to P4 still having nobody therr, everybody closes up, allowing Rosberg to P6.

So in the following example where Hamilton first receives a ten-place penalty and Hülkenberg then receives a five-place penalty...

...it won't be like this

     a   b   c     
 P1 HAM RAI RAI    
 P2 RAI VET VET    
 P3 VET BOT BOT    
 P4 BOT VER VER    
 P5 VER HUL PER    
 P6 HUL PER OCO    
 P7 PER OCO VAN    
 P8 OCO VAN GRO    
 P9 VAN GRO PAL    
P10 GRO PAL HUL    
P11 PAL HAM HAM    

...but like this?

     a   b   c   d    
 P1 HAM         RAI   
 P2 RAI RAI RAI VET   
 P3 VET VET VET BOT   
 P4 BOT BOT BOT VER   
 P5 VER VER VER PER   
 P6 HUL HUL     OCO   
 P7 PER PER PER VAN   
 P8 OCO OCO OCO GRO   
 P9 VAN VAN VAN HUL   
P10 GRO GRO GRO HAM   
P11 PAL HAM HUL PAL   
P12     PAL HAM       
P13         PAL       

[johnmhinds]

What is the minimum number of grid penalties would need to be applied to everyone else for Alonso to start first in this weekends race.

[Bleu]

So in the following example where Hamilton first receives a ten-place penalty and Hülkenberg then receives a five-place penalty...

...it won't be like this

     a   b   c     
 P1 HAM RAI RAI    
 P2 RAI VET VET    
 P3 VET BOT BOT    
 P4 BOT VER VER    
 P5 VER HUL PER    
 P6 HUL PER OCO    
 P7 PER OCO VAN    
 P8 OCO VAN GRO    
 P9 VAN GRO PAL    
P10 GRO PAL HUL    
P11 PAL HAM HAM    

...but like this?

     a   b   c   d    
 P1 HAM         RAI   
 P2 RAI RAI RAI VET   
 P3 VET VET VET BOT   
 P4 BOT BOT BOT VER   
 P5 VER VER VER PER   
 P6 HUL HUL     OCO   
 P7 PER PER PER VAN   
 P8 OCO OCO OCO GRO   
 P9 VAN VAN VAN HUL   
P10 GRO GRO GRO HAM   
P11 PAL HAM HUL PAL   
P12     PAL HAM       
P13         PAL       

 

I would assume Palmer would be P9 while Hulk and Lewis would fill places 10 and 11, but not sure about the order of last two.

[w1Y]

Makes you wonder weather all teams agreed to pull this as a get around of the stupid limit system. I have a feeling though that someone wouldn't play ball especially as the p1 car has to go first