36 replies to this topic

[Allen Brown]

Before Masters F1 there was Thoroughbred Grand Prix, and before TGP there was the HSCC Historic F1 Championship, which ran from 1988 to 1994.  Before that, there was an ad hoc series of races for "Historically Interesting F1 Cars", which goes as far back as 1982.  With the help of Jeremy Jackson, Andrew Fellowes, the HSCC and the late great David McKinney, and more recently Ben Cowdrey, I have the entry lists for almost all of these HSCC races and the results for most of them, but I am trying trying to find full results for most of the races held in 1988 and 1989.

 

Does anyone have any results sheets from these events?  Or practice results or grid sheets?

 

The HSCC race meetings in question were:

 

Oulton Park 30 April 1988

Brands Hatch 05 June 1988

Donington Park 17 July 1988

Oulton Park 30 July 1988 (also need entry list for this race)

Thruxton 11 September 1988

Silverstone 24 September 1988

Snetterton 16 October 1988

 

Oulton Park 20 May 1989

Brands Hatch 04 June 1989

Pembrey 01 July 1989

Oulton Park 29 July 1989

Donington Park 10 September 1989

Silverstone 23 September 1989 (have results, but need entry list for this race)

Snetterton 22 October 1989 (have results, but need entry list for this race)

 

Many thanks

Allen

[PhantomRaspberryBlower]

16 year old me was up the Hatch in 88. Here's a scan from the programme (the tick next to #29 might indicate that car achieved fastest lap).

 

 

And before anybody asks, no I didn't fill in the results for any of the other races and yes I have lots of pics but I'm not sure where they are stashed at the moment. I may get around to digging some out at some point...

[Allen Brown]

My thanks to the 16-year-old Mr Blower for filling in the grid and results in his programme.  That's just the sort of thing I need! 

[GazChed]

Two things strike me about the programme above . First of all the race was over just ten laps , admittedly over the Brands GP circuit and lasted less than a quarter of an hour . Secondly the top class consisted entirely of cars less than ten years old , some less than five years old . I wonder what the supporting races were that day ? I remember the Historic Formula One race at the Thruxton season closer in October 1990 being supported by a pair of Mod Prod Saloon races and a Clubmans race among others . How times have changed , impossible to imagine anything like it happening today .

[Allen Brown]

Ray Bellm raced a 1983 Williams FW08C in an HSCC event as early as 1985!

[GazChed]

And of course Rob Cox ran a Lola LC88 in 1989 . Was it the Maclean Hunter Open Series ? Sorry I am going off topic now .

[Thundersports]

They ran a couple of races on the Brands Indy circuit as well! Sadly I lost all my programmes some signed that are irreplaceable. A few of my thoughts having witnessed most of these races that happened at Brands.

Not all the cars ran in original livery O'Neills car/cars were sponsored.

The races were held only on a "club" meeting event or the Superprix at best.

Pre internet as a teenage spectator in the 80s who couldn't always afford programme the first you knew about a Libre/Historic F1 race was the distant sound of a DFV firing up!

I'm not sure there was really a list of races released pre-season more ad-hoc.

Unlike todays series the cars weren't limited to 10k revs.

You never knew what was there as access to the pits even at club meetings was limited in those days.

I had a chat about these races with Roger Cowman a few years ago and they really are a continuation of Aurora F1 up until the present day except the cars are a bit older!

GazChed Rob Coxs LC88 was indeed entered in Libre in 1989 I recall it having a battle with Trimmers F5000 Lola at Brands.

Edited by Thundersports, 15 August 2017 - 00:41.

[GazChed]

At Thruxton access to the cars was pretty much unlimited , the cars being in the Pit Garages . On one occasion the cars shared top billing with the British Formula Three championship and were housed in a large marquee in the Paddock . When the DFVs started to be fired up you almost literally cut the atmosphere with a knife ! And a Formula One race at Pembrey ! Looking forward to seeing the results on oldracingcars .

[Gary C]

in my video collection I have a piece from BBC 'Grandstand' where James Hunt goes to the HSCC at Brands in 1985 (27.7.85 to be precise) and he takes a look at the various races with an emphasis on the F1 cars that were there including an ex-him M23! Ray Bellm does indeed make an appearance in an FW08C.

Edited by Gary C, 15 August 2017 - 12:29.

[GTMRacer]

If it was the Superprix in July then it was a full FIA event in those days, Pre 66 sportcars, Can Am, Roadsports and all the junior single seater formula. My Father competed in the 1990 FIA  pre 61 GTS in his Fairthorpe at Brands, I'll never forget the Scuderia Del Portello transporter in the paddock next to us and our 15 year old BMW tow car... I'll see if I can dig out my old programmes tonight. The HSCC was at it's peak in the late 80's early 90's as it was still pretty easy/cheap to build a car and go racing. 

[Allen Brown]

That's very interesting Gary.  I've just turned to Autosport and it was a BRSCC meeting, with Thundersports headlining.  No HSCC presence as far as I can see, but Foulston would have had his F1-liveried and DFV-engined McLaren M25 in his showroom at the top of the paddock area, together with his Ferrari 312T, Lotus 72 and McLaren M19A.  There was a round of the LEP libre series as well, so Alo Lawler's McLaren M30 (he took this car into HSCC in 1987) and John Brindley's March 821 were there, plus Tony Trimmer's indefatigable Lola T330.  

 

This was the race where Foulston's VDS-001 was disqualified for not having a flat bottom.  It was a full ground effect car of course, but Foulston entered it as a Lola T530 for reasons that I never fully understood.  As he'd run it once before, at Snetterton, and won, Foulson "sought clarification" of the rules before the next race at Oulton Park.  His sponsorship of the next race must have helped to focus minds, and his purchase of Snetterton, Brands Hatch and Oulton Park illuminated the situation very nicely thank you.  He continued to race the VDS - still as a Lola T530 - for two more years.

[Allen Brown]

No, not the Superprix; that was early June in those days.  This was the 27/28 July meeting:

 

[Gary C]

ah, hang on a minute. I've just realised that 27.7.85 is the transmission date.  James, in his introduction, does say it's an HSCC event, sponsored by The Observer and Atlantic Computers. Any help?  So maybe earlier in the month,  the weather looks nice in it. The piece includes interviews with Foulston, John Brindley, Jonathan Palmer, Mary Foulston and also (un-credited) the guy from the HSCC itself.

[2F-001]

Allen - re, Foulston's VDS / 'Lola T530' (No.10?)... is the implication that had he used the car's real identity it would have been allowed? I thought the Lola was also a full ground-effects machine; or was the problem simply that he was mis-naming the car?
I feel I'm missing the point here...

Edited by 2F-001, 15 August 2017 - 15:59.

[BRG]

In what bizarre alternative universe could anyone win a F1 race in a Mclaren M30?

[GazChed]

Bob Berridge won the Historic Formula One Championship of 1997 in a RAM 01 !

[Allen Brown]

ah, hang on a minute. I've just realised that 27.7.85 is the transmission date.  James, in his introduction, does say it's an HSCC event, sponsored by The Observer and Atlantic Computers. Any help?  So maybe earlier in the month,  the weather looks nice in it. The piece includes interviews with Foulston, John Brindley, Jonathan Palmer, Mary Foulston and also (un-credited) the guy from the HSCC itself.

 

Must be the HSCC's Atlantic Computers International Historic Weekend at Brands on 9 Jun 1985, which included a race for "Historically Interesting F1 Cars", as well as the FIA GT Cup for pre-63 tintops.  The Observer also sponsored a VSCC meeting at Oulton Park the same weekend, with the Richard Seaman Vintage Trophy as the highlight.  Entry for either was £4, which would be £12 in today's money.  How much were tickets for the Silverstone Classic this year?

[Allen Brown]

Bob Berridge won the Historic Formula One Championship of 1997 in a RAM 01 !

 

I don't think there was much RAM left in it.  I might have to list it as a Berridge '97.

[FLB]

Is there anywhere to find race results? I have video of an F1 race held at Thruxton in June or July 1994? Does anybody have a precise date?

[Thundersports]

I don't think there was much RAM left in it.  I might have to list it as a Berridge '97.

Yes it was highly developed and there wasn't a tyre usage limit then. Nearly every session race it had fresh tyres on it. 

[GazChed]

Wasn't it Berridge's RAM where the monocoque was originally incorrectly made - amongst other things lt would seem .

[GazChed]

The Haynes Thruxton Historic Super Prix was held on Sunday 24th July 1994 . The meeting consisted of the HSCC Thoroughbred Grand Prix Car Series supported by the RJB Mining Sports Racing Cars , races for both 1600 and 2 litre Formula Two , 1600 Formula Three and a Classic Formula Ford race . The Thoroughbred Grand prix race was won by John Wilson in a Williams FW08C from John Fenning in an earlier Williams , a FW06 and Geoff Farmer in a Tyrrell 012 .

Looking at my lap chart Wilson appears to have overtaken Fenning on the last lap , while Geoff Farmer held off Sean Walker's Lotus 87B by 0.02 of a second . Whatever it cost to attend that meeting , the Thoroughbred Grand Prix race was worth the admission fee alone !

Edited by GazChed, 16 August 2017 - 09:14.

[Allen Brown]

Is there anywhere to find race results?

 
That's what I'm trying to achieve.  One day, if I can find everything, all the race results will be on OldRacingCars.com.
 

I have video of an F1 race held at Thruxton in June or July 1994? Does anybody have a precise date?

 
The Thruxton race was on 24 July 1994.

EDIT: I should have refreshed the page before posting!

Edited by Allen Brown, 16 August 2017 - 10:22.

[Allen Brown]

The Haynes Thruxton Historic Super Prix was held on Sunday 24th July 1994 . The meeting consisted of the HSCC Thoroughbred Grand Prix Car Series supported by the RJB Mining Sports Racing Cars , races for both 1600 and 2 litre Formula Two , 1600 Formula Three and a Classic Formula Ford race . The Thoroughbred Grand prix race was won by John Wilson in a Williams FW08C from John Fenning in an earlier Williams , a FW06 and Geoff Farmer in a Tyrrell 012 .

Looking at my lap chart Wilson appears to have overtaken Fenning on the last lap , while Geoff Farmer held off Sean Walker's Lotus 87B by 0.02 of a second . Whatever it cost to attend that meeting , the Thoroughbred Grand Prix race was worth the admission fee alone !

For this one, I have full results:

http://www.oldracing.../1994/thruxton/

[Belmondo]

Ray Bellm leading at Brands in 1985.

 

Second is John Brindley, not sure who's third in the Brabham, John Foulston fourth in the 312T1, Roger Friend fifth.

 

[FLB]

For this one, I have full results:

http://www.oldracing.../1994/thruxton/

Ah, many thanks! Why hadn't I found them before?

Edited by FLB, 16 August 2017 - 22:00.

[Allen Brown]

Ah, many thanks! Why hadn't I found them before?

Because I'd never published them before.

 

I like to get results reasonably complete before publishing, and none of the pre-TGP seasons are yet reasonably complete. I will start publishing the results at 1982 and work my way through to 2017, by which time it won't be 2017 any more!

[Dick Dastardly]

Going slightly off-topic, I recall someone trying to set up a monthly [?] magazine for the Historic F1 / Thoroughbred GP world...this would be late 90s, when Bob Berridge was winning.

Anyone else remember this and did it ever appear?

Edited by Dick Dastardly, 17 August 2017 - 20:34.

[GazChed]

Looking through the Lola Heritage championship roll of honour I see that Don Wood won Class C of the HSCC Historic Formula One championship in a Beatrice Lola Hart in 1989 . How long were turbocars eligible for the Historic Formula One championship ? I remember seeing a couple in the BOSS series but not in HF1 .

Going off topic back to Rob Cox , the series he raced his Lola LC88 in was the Design Fireplaces Single Seater championship which , if memory serves was his own company .

[Allen Brown]

Class C was only for turbo cars and he might have been the one one that appeared. Maybe an Arrows A10B as well?

[GazChed]

Wasn't Don Wood an ex Powerboat racer who ran Source Racing ? He had quite a collection of Grand Prix cars IIRC .

[Thundersports]

Wasn't Don Wood an ex Powerboat racer who ran Source Racing ? He had quite a collection of Grand Prix cars IIRC .

He purchased more or less the entire Beatrice team raced one then spent the next 15 years trying to sell the whole lot. He was a pretty good racer and as you say ex powerboat racer so very brave!

Regards to class C Allan I think I saw a Toleman turbo car in the series don't think I saw a A10B. Any knowledge of Turbo cars raced after they were obsolete in F1 would make a good thread! I know of and witnessed 3 and 2 of those resulted in bent cars.

Edited by Thundersports, 17 August 2017 - 23:29.

[Thundersports]

By the way Mr Brown I've attended at least 2 meetings this season that you've been to and I still haven't met you! My theory is you see a bobble hat with a anorak attached and leg it! Don't be worried i'm rarely at meetings with the big hairy Scots man from Brighton! 

Edited by Thundersports, 18 August 2017 - 00:20.

[GazChed]

Isn't the wearing of bobble hat and anorak compulsory for membership of tnf ?!

[arttidesco]

 

Not much in the way of Progs or results but here is a pic of Don Shead in a Tyrrell 012 with rear wing extensions taken during practice at Brands 3rd June 1989

[Allen Brown]

 

Not much in the way of Progs or results but here is a pic of Don Shead in a Tyrrell 012 with rear wing extensions taken during practice at Brands 3rd June 1989

 

Very interesting.  I have no details on the Brands Hatch race (which I have as the preceding weekend).

 

The 012 was Richard Eyre's 012/4, which he'd just had rebuilt after being used in F3000.  That would explain the new rear wing, as F3000 wings had to be narrower.  It went to the US a couple of years later and I am struggling to get up to date with it.  

Edited by Allen Brown, 01 October 2017 - 11:50.

[Tim Wilkinson]

May 29th 1989, Brands Hatch.