2179 replies to this topic

[Realist]

Ricardo F1, on 03 Sept 2017 - 16:16, said:

Three year supremacy. Unless you've missed the rest of this season Monza wasn't terribly representative of this year and Vettel was leading the WDC until today. He'll likely be leading it again after Singapore.

The three year supremacy was 98% as I previously stated, considering Merc has been clearly the best package this year as well I took the liberty of adding it which combined for 93% or so. 

 

Vettel leading the WDC has one obvious explanation I'm sure you're more than willing to hear. 

Edited by Realist, 04 September 2017 - 10:38.

[Realist]

P123, on 04 Sept 2017 - 09:28, said:

Yes, Sebastien does like a mump whenever anybody passes him with DRS, but it was fine when he was using it to despatch Bottas earlier in the race.

As for Monaco, Kimi was slow. Ferrari got him out of the way by means of pitting.

On new tyres against Bottas' old ones, yet still he barely got it done compared to Hamilton steaming past him with unstoppable speed on the same tyre cycle. Yeah, the same thing. 

 

Posts about the Merc corruption with Ocon not surprising at all either, the hypocrisy human beings show will never stop amusing me.  

[Dabash]

Realist, on 04 Sept 2017 - 10:37, said:

On new tyres against Bottas' old ones, yet still he barely got it done compared to Hamilton steaming past him with unstoppable speed on the same tyre cycle. Yeah, the same thing. 

 

Posts about the Merc corruption with Ocon not surprising at all either, the hypocrisy human beings show will never stop amusing me.  

 

Surely you are taking this thing a tad too serious 

[P123]

Realist, on 04 Sept 2017 - 10:37, said:

On new tyres against Bottas' old ones, yet still he barely got it done compared to Hamilton steaming past him with unstoppable speed on the same tyre cycle. Yeah, the same thing.

You are correct with your sarcasm; not quite the same thing. Vettel was a couple of tenths further back over the line during his attack on Bottas in comparison to how far Hamilton was from him when he was passed. Therein lies the difference.

[Realist]

P123, on 04 Sept 2017 - 10:46, said:

You are correct with your sarcasm; not quite the same thing. Vettel was a couple of tenths further back over the line during his attack on Bottas in comparison to how far Hamilton was from him when he was passed. Therein lies the difference.

Wrong again, I've come to expect this already from the group in question. Vettel was about .45 behind at the line and had to double-weave onto the inside, wheels on grass, to barely be able to outbrake Bottas to the corner on much, much better tyres. Hamilton OTOH was about .65 behind at the line and didn't have to do anything but go to the outside as he was easily ahead at the start of braking. 

 

I mean, this kind of behaviour would be incredible to witness if I hadn't seen it all throughout Hamilton's career. Kinda sad in a way but oh so human. 

[CountDooku]

Realist, on 04 Sept 2017 - 12:13, said:

Wrong again, I've come to expect this already from the group in question. Vettel was about .45 behind at the line and had to double-weave onto the inside, wheels on grass, to barely be able to outbrake Bottas to the corner on much, much better tyres. Hamilton OTOH was about .65 behind at the line and didn't have to do anything but go to the outside as he was easily ahead at the start of braking. 

 

I mean, this kind of behaviour would be incredible to witness if I hadn't seen it all throughout Hamilton's career. Kinda sad in a way but oh so human. 

 

Why do I get the feeling we have met before? 

[GoldenColt]

Realist, on 04 Sept 2017 - 12:13, said:

I mean, this kind of behaviour would be incredible to witness if I hadn't seen it all throughout Hamilton's career. Kinda sad in a way but oh so human. 

You seem upset.

[Knowlesy]

Realist was seething all day yesterday and he hasn't stopped.

[Realist]

3 answers to my post correcting an obvious error made from a poster of a certain group (bc of obvious agenda), by posters of the same group, none of which even attempted to address the point. Anybody see a problem here? 

 

Echo chambers can be fun I guess but aren't you guys even a bit embarrassed? 

[Realist]

GoldenColt, on 04 Sept 2017 - 13:28, said:

You seem upset.

Saddened, but understanding are the terms I would use. As a matter of fact I already did in the post you quoted, maybe you missed it.

Edited by Realist, 04 September 2017 - 14:20.

[hodgy21]

Realist, on 04 Sept 2017 - 14:19, said:

3 answers to my post correcting an obvious error made from a poster of a certain group (bc of obvious agenda), by posters of the same group, none of which even attempted to address the point. Anybody see a problem here? 
 
Echo chambers can be fun I guess but aren't you guys even a bit embarrassed?

What do you want to discuss?

I'll see if I can help.

[P123]

Realist, on 04 Sept 2017 - 12:13, said:

Wrong again, I've come to expect this already from the group in question. Vettel was about .45 behind at the line and had to double-weave onto the inside, wheels on grass, to barely be able to outbrake Bottas to the corner on much, much better tyres. Hamilton OTOH was about .65 behind at the line and didn't have to do anything but go to the outside as he was easily ahead at the start of braking. 
 
I mean, this kind of behaviour would be incredible to witness if I hadn't seen it all throughout Hamilton's career. Kinda sad in a way but oh so human.

Yeah that 's fair enough realist, 0.445 vs 0.573- note: not 0.65s as you stated. Although Hamilton couldn't get the job done at 0.584s or 0.771s so defence/ attack clearly plays a role too.

I'm sure the mods will sort any of 'this type of behaviour' you find unacceptable. A better attitude might help you out too.

[Realist]

hodgy21, on 04 Sept 2017 - 14:26, said:

What do you want to discuss?

I'll see if I can help.

Well, not sure how much there was to discuss here as I took me about 5 minutes to make sure P123 either remembered wrong or deliberately lied about the Catalunya overtakes and correct him.

 

As to the quality of DRS with regards to racing there, I'd say it was pretty good unless you were in the Merc. For me being .5 behind at the start of a long straight and having to make a great move to overtake is great and just the thing DRS is made for, but OTOH being .65 behind and being well ahead entering the braking zone it hurts racing. 

[Realist]

P123, on 04 Sept 2017 - 14:41, said:

Yeah that 's fair enough realist, 0.445 vs 0.573- note: not 0.65s as you stated. Although Hamilton couldn't get the job done at 0.584s or 0.771s so defence/ attack clearly plays a role too.

I'm sure the mods will sort any of 'this type of behaviour' you find unacceptable. A better attitude might help you out too.

Well okay, but rewatching the race you can see the gap exiting the corner was around or over .65 but because the DRS zone started before the line Hamilton had already reduced the gap to that by then.

 

And can I ask you to show me what kind of defence/attack tactics Vettel and Hamilton showed in that particular move, because to me it seems Vettel was completely defenseless against the overwhelming speed difference. 

[Dabash]

Realist, on 04 Sept 2017 - 14:19, said:

3 answers to my post correcting an obvious error made from a poster of a certain group (bc of obvious agenda), by posters of the same group, none of which even attempted to address the point. Anybody see a problem here? 

 

Echo chambers can be fun I guess but aren't you guys even a bit embarrassed? 

 

This is so un(realist)ic 

Edited by Dabash, 04 September 2017 - 15:38.

[Ricardo F1]

Realist, on 04 Sept 2017 - 10:32, said:

The three year supremacy was 98% as I previously stated, considering Merc has been clearly the best package this year as well I took the liberty of adding it which combined for 93% or so. 

 

Vettel leading the WDC has one obvious explanation I'm sure you're more than willing to hear. 

edit : not going to engage.  Reported.

Edited by Ricardo F1, 04 September 2017 - 15:48.

[HeadFirst]

There were some interesting moments in this race, but not many. It was such a sleeper (compared to Q) I went out and crashed my bike.

[Nonesuch]

P123, on 04 Sept 2017 - 09:28, said:

Yes, Sebastien does like a mump whenever anybody passes him with DRS, but it was fine when he was using it to despatch Bottas earlier in the race.

 

Of course it's "fine", at least in the context of how F1 is these days. It's just nothing special, regardless of who does it.

 

They've had much better scraps in the past, and hopefully will again in the remaining races of the year.

[P123]

Realist, on 04 Sept 2017 - 14:57, said:

Well okay, but rewatching the race you can see the gap exiting the corner was around or over .65 but because the DRS zone started before the line Hamilton had already reduced the gap to that by then.
 
And can I ask you to show me what kind of defence/attack tactics Vettel and Hamilton showed in that particular move, because to me it seems Vettel was completely defenseless against the overwhelming speed difference.

Standard DRS stuff though.. not many can defend against it. Vettel went to the inside to defend, and Hamilton briefly followed for the tow then opted for the outside, which gave him the racing line and optimum speed into T1. Vettel went right, left, right vs Bottas , and got him on the inside, which gave him a tighter run into T1.

[P123]

HeadFirst, on 04 Sept 2017 - 15:57, said:

There were some interesting moments in this race, but not many. It was such a sleeper (compared to Q) I went out and crashed my bike.

Danny Ric provided the entertainment on track with his passes on Perez and Kimi, and Alonso provided the radio show with his rants about Palmer. Monza, like Spa, needs a bit of rain to spice things up.

[sabjit]

Bleu, on 04 Sept 2017 - 07:37, said:

Mercedes 1-2s with gap to 3rd over 25 seconds:

 

ESP 2014 49,014

ESP 2015 45,342

BRA 2014 41,031

CAN 2015 40,666

BEL 2015 37,988

ITA 2017 36,317

CAN 2017 35,297

AUS 2015 34,523

RUS 2016 31,998

JPN 2014 29,122

HUN 2016 27,539

USA 2014 25,560

GBR 2015 25,443

ITA 2014 25,046

 

 

Additionally Rosberg won China 2016 by 37,776 seconds and Hamilton Britain 2014 by 30,135 seconds, while other Mercedes had troubles.

 

Of course comparing gaps only isn't necessarily fair because of SC possibility, that Bahrain race had SC at about 2/3 of distance due to Maldonado/Gutierrez crash.

 

IIRC The two Mercs were over a minute clear when the SC came out in Bahrain 2014

[Counterbalance]

Realist, on 04 Sept 2017 - 10:37, said:

On new tyres against Bottas' old ones, yet still he barely got it done compared to Hamilton steaming past him with unstoppable speed on the same tyre cycle. Yeah, the same thing. 

 

Posts about the Merc corruption with Ocon not surprising at all either, the hypocrisy human beings show will never stop amusing me.  

 

You've obviously never heard of the term "Blue Ferrari" then....

[Realist]

Dabash, on 04 Sept 2017 - 15:38, said:

This is so un(realist)ic 

No, I'm pretty sure it's the truth. 

[Realist]

Ricardo F1, on 04 Sept 2017 - 15:43, said:

edit : not going to engage.  Reported.

The reason being what? 

[Realist]

P123, on 04 Sept 2017 - 16:27, said:

Standard DRS stuff though.. not many can defend against it. Vettel went to the inside to defend, and Hamilton briefly followed for the tow then opted for the outside, which gave him the racing line and optimum speed into T1. Vettel went right, left, right vs Bottas , and got him on the inside, which gave him a tighter run into T1.

In other words Vettel had to make (quite a spectacular) overtaking move, whereas Hamilton had to drive more or less on a straight line. 

[Realist]

Counterbalance, on 05 Sept 2017 - 00:02, said:

You've obviously never heard of the term "Blue Ferrari" then....

Of course I have, it's certain people dismissing this as nothing that's the hypocritical part. 

[Tenmantaylor]

Realist, on 04 Sept 2017 - 10:32, said:

The three year supremacy was 98% as I previously stated, considering Merc has been clearly the best package this year as well I took the liberty of adding it which combined for 93% or so.

Vettel leading the WDC has one obvious explanation I'm sure you're more than willing to hear.

Clearly the best package? Sorry did you miss all the races Vettel won in the better package?

Even as recent as last week at Spa, a track everyone thought Merc would dominate Vettel had a good chance at winning.

The only race Mercedes clearly had the better package was Monza.

What you mean to say is Merc clearly have the best power unit. Ferrari are going to dominate Singapore.

[Realist]

P123, on 04 Sept 2017 - 16:27, said:

Standard DRS stuff though.. not many can defend against it. Vettel went to the inside to defend, and Hamilton briefly followed for the tow then opted for the outside, which gave him the racing line and optimum speed into T1. Vettel went right, left, right vs Bottas , and got him on the inside, which gave him a tighter run into T1.

I would say no one can defend against it when the overtaker is clearly ahead when braking. Yes, I understood what happened in those instances, what I asked was if there was anything special worth noting in that move, surely you're not suggesting pulling out of the slipstream is that. 

 

I agree Vettel's move OTOH was smth he actually had to work for as well as being pretty brave considering he had two wheels on grass for a while there. Reverting back to the original point since this is getting repetitive, from my POV Vettel's frustation is pretty understandable looking at the two moves in question. 

[Realist]

Tenmantaylor, on 05 Sept 2017 - 10:23, said:

Clearly the best package? Sorry did you miss all the races Vettel won in the better package?

Even as recent as last week at Spa, a track everyone thought Merc would dominate Vettel had a good chance at winning.

The only race Mercedes clearly had the better package was Monza.

What you mean to say is Merc clearly have the best power unit. Ferrari are going to dominate Singapore.

 

Yes, Vettel's won 2 races this year with the better package, one of in which his car was broken almost all the race. What does that have to do with Merc being clearly the best package so far this year? 

[grunf77]

Do we have  posters from North Korea? Reading some posts makes me think we may have.

I am sure all those testing and launches are mere coincidence.