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Who won/lost the 2017 WDC?


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Poll: Who won/lost the 2017 WDC? (233 member(s) have cast votes)

Who won/lost the 2017 WDC?

  1. Lewis Hamilton & Mercedes won it (84 votes [36.05%])

    Percentage of vote: 36.05%

  2. Sebastian Vettel & Ferrari lost it (34 votes [14.59%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.59%

  3. Combination of the two above (104 votes [44.64%])

    Percentage of vote: 44.64%

  4. Don't know or don't care (in which case don't vote!) (11 votes [4.72%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.72%

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#1 MJB5990

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 09:25

As the title says really, do we think it was a case of Mercedes and Lewis winning the championship or was it more of Sebastian and Ferrari losing the title?

 

For Hamilton and Mercedes, it's clear that this combination was the quickest in qualifying trim and this has enabled Lewis to lead from the front at half of the races this season. Also, they have had reliability on their side, finishing all the races and picking up the points when they couldn't win. Lewis still got points in Monaco, Russia and Hungary when the car or him weren't quite on form.

 

For Vettel and Ferrari, I believe that they have had the more responsive and adaptable car, maybe the easier car to drive for the majority of the season. However, with passing a works Mercedes engine on track almost impossible, they haven't been able to use their race pace as much as they would have liked. Then there's the reliability issues which arguably started in the first few races when they used a lot of power unit elements which came back to bit them with failures in Malaysia and Japan. 

 

The defining moment of the season has to be Singapore though. Vettel and Ferrari were on pole with Hamilton and Mercedes back in fifth. Had they finished in that order, Seb would have headed to Malaysia 12 points ahead. However, we all know exactly what happened and in the end, it was Lewis who inherited the victory and extended his championship lead to 28 points, a crucial 40 point swing.

 

Personally, I think it's a mix of the two but I'd like to believe that Lewis/Mercedes have won this championship rather than Sebastian/Ferrari have lost it. I guess we'll never know how it would have gone had they battled all the way upto the final lap in Abu Dhabi. I also think that I could have made Verstappen/Red Bull an option for this poll as well, especially given his presence at Singapore and beyond. 



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#2 AlexPrime

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 09:28

IMO Mercedes won it for Lewis. More often than not, they had the better car. For Seb to need a genuine chance, he needed to have been perfect and sadly he was not in the crucial moments. Lewis also had off weekends, but was the more reasonable of the two and with slight car advantage, it was enough.



#3 GoldenColt

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 09:32

For me, it's a combination of the two. Ferrari had the car to win both championships, but they didn't have the drivers to achieve that. Vettel was lacking pace especially in qualifying, he made errors which you wouldn't even expect from a rookie. Also, Mercedes had better reliability. At the end Lewis has been the better driver in a car that was at best equal to Ferrari over the course of the whole season. He scored good points even in difficult races and won the races he should've won. In many ways, this season resembles 2008 in the way the Ferrari drivers threw both championships away. The only difference being that the 2017 Lewis has been almost untouchable and very consistent compared to the 2008 Hamilton.

 

The less said about Kimi the better.


Edited by GoldenColt, 30 October 2017 - 09:33.


#4 Lights

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 09:37

Combo. Hamilton was sublime at some crucial moments, and Vettel cost himself a lot of points at some crucial moments. It's the little things.

 

Hamilton's defending at Spa was a crucial and sublime moment. I believe many drivers would have lost the lead there.

 

Singapore decided so much for the championship. Had Vettel not caused that collision, and had Vettel won Spa, Vettel would only be ~5 points behind right now. Let that sink in. The championship fight would have certainly gone to Abu Dhabi.


Edited by Lights, 30 October 2017 - 09:46.


#5 Diablobb81

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 09:40

Combination of (kind of in order) :

- Lewis having a decent first half but with no big mistakes (equal to Bottas, really?) and an excellent second half

- Merc having an advantage in quali (which proved decisive)

- Excellent first half of the season from Vettel (only thing that kept him in the fight) but some big mistakes in the second

- Reliability problems and not enough development from Ferrari



#6 kumo7

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 09:40

Obviously the two cannot be separated.

 

But IMHO, Vettel dropped the ball more than Lewis scored it.

Lewis had a car which was distend with the front suspension system changed.

It is something that Merc cannot be proud of, but it is no fault of Lewis and Lewis made it work.

 

Seb had some engine blow and so on, so it was hard for him, but IMHO, Seb could have composed his drive much better to score more points in some incidents.

They were very silly mistakes like colliding with his teammate.

If Seb were driving for some other team that shared the track, Seb might have been told that he lost the drive the next year.

IMHO, Seb saved his neck only because he drives for Ferrari.



#7 Laster

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 09:42

Hamilton won it by being flawless after the summer break. Ferrari and Vettel together only hastened how soon he won it. Vettel could have won it this year but races like Spa where he was faster but Hamilton kept ahead tell me Hamilton won this championship.

#8 Marklar

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 09:42

It's always a combination of both. In this case for both driver and team.

-Mercedes had better reliability than Ferrari

-Mercedes had all things considered a slight advantage in qualifying
-Hamilton was better (less scruffy) in qualifying than Vettel
-Vettel did two crucial avoidable errors in Baku and Singapore

It's fine to have off-weekends like Hamilton in Russia or Vettel in Silverstone and it's also fine to occasionally screw up strategies, but mistakes in crucial moments are what decides a championship.

 

Ferraris only advantage was race pace (imo bigger than Mercedes quali pace), but to win the championship in such a situation team and driver need to avoid mistakes in crucial moments. Hamilton and Mercedes did, Vettel and Ferrari not



#9 NixxxoN

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 09:45

Combo of the two.
Ferrari started off as the best car but fell down a bit in the development race, and then Merc got a bit ahead. Hamilton also made less mistakes.



#10 Calorus

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 09:54

Hamilton, Mercedes, Vettel and Ferrari all did enough to win it on full season peak performance.

Hamilton and Mercedes did enough to win it on consistency and reliability.



#11 Calorus

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 09:55

Combo of the two.
Ferrari started off as the best car but fell down a bit in the development race, and then Merc got a bit ahead. Hamilton also made less mistakes.

 

I don't really see how Mercedes got a bit ahead.

Every session of Mexico the Ferrari looked the better package.



#12 SenorSjon

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 09:59

Dont forget Red Bull upping their game, so Kimi and Bottas couldn't assist the lead driver more in the second half. I expect more of the three (Vet,Ver, Ham) in the top three dicing for the lead at T1. This isn't the last scrap we have seen. 

 

I think Vettel lost it, especially when things don't go his way or more than one car is involved like at starts, while Hamilton was on it after the summer break. Bottas faded and Kimi is just Kimi.



#13 Marklar

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 10:00

Combo of the two.
Ferrari started off as the best car but fell down a bit in the development race, and then Merc got a bit ahead. Hamilton also made less mistakes.

Actually, if we ignore reliability Ferrari improved a lot after it seemed during mid-season that Mercedes outdeveloped them. It's the quickest package overall since Budapest, but - thanks to reliability - not the best, unlike at the season start where both pace and reliability were good enough.



#14 statman

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 10:10

I can't believe the dumb errors Vettel made this season, he threw it away a couple of times.

 

But Hamilton really was consistent, but it could've been a lot closer.



#15 NixxxoN

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 10:27

I don't really see how Mercedes got a bit ahead.

Every session of Mexico the Ferrari looked the better package.

 

Only in this track in particular, not overall the season

 

Actually, if we ignore reliability Ferrari improved a lot after it seemed during mid-season that Mercedes outdeveloped them. It's the quickest package overall since Budapest, but - thanks to reliability - not the best, unlike at the season start where both pace and reliability were good enough.

 

Ferrari have had more ups and downs. In Italy they got completely destroyed. In Spain Hamilton flew past the Ferrari. Mercedes still have the power advantage. Anyway we are talking about very small differences and Hamilton has been a better driver than Vettel with less mistakes. Vettel chop at Singapore was pure harakiri



#16 Lakeside

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 10:29

Can we have a option for "its the car and anyone's Granny could have won in it" :lol: 



#17 Calorus

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 10:32

Only in this track in particular, not overall the season

 

And Singapore, and Malaysia... and the only Mercedes that was dominant in the US was driven by someone who's won there 4 times in 5 outings.

 

Although in Malaysia it had the stomping power, but not the staying power.


Edited by Calorus, 30 October 2017 - 10:35.


#18 Jon83

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 10:34

Vettel never had it to lose. The Hamilton / Mercedes package always had that little bit extra IMO.


Edited by Jon83, 30 October 2017 - 10:35.


#19 BuddyHolly

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 10:37

a combination of the two.

Mercs lightning fast car with bulletproof reliability this year, coupled with Hamilton's driving but then Seb making unforced errors and at times the Ferrari being totally outclassed by the Merc and also with reliability problems.

 

so both.



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#20 Calorus

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 10:38

 

Vettel never had it to lose. The Hamilton / Mercedes package always had that little bit extra IMO.

 

 

I think if Vettel had won a dry Singapore, with Hamilton in 5th, it would have been very different today.

I think his crash was fatal for his championship, but I think it would have been Hamilton vs Verstappen for the win in the wet, and Vettel vs Verstappen for the win in the dry.


Edited by Calorus, 30 October 2017 - 10:39.


#21 f1supreme

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 10:41

if it wasn't for those mistakes vettel made, the championship wouldn't have been won yet.

lewis upped his game at crucial moments,and vettel made mistakes at crucial moments.that in the end was the difference.



#22 SenorSjon

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 10:53

Vettel would have won Baku if he didn't had his meltdown. Also in Singapore he would have gotten at least the podium with Hamilton probably behind. That is at least 28 points MIA. Ferrari would have swapped the cars if there was a chance yesterday, so 31 points.  It would haven been 333-308 then, not counting that Ham would most probably won't have won Singapore. So the gap would perhaps have been 20 points or so with 2 races to go. So all to fight for. A win with Ham 3rd in two races would have brought them on equal footing (with Ham winning on number of victories).  OTOH, Vettel's last win was Hungary. He now has seven races without a win, that is too much if you want to be WDC in this era.

 

Conclusion, Vettel lost it himself, he would have had everything to fight for the last two races.


Edited by SenorSjon, 30 October 2017 - 10:54.


#23 kevinracefan

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 11:35

the M - B power unit design team..

 

not because of power, but because of reliability..



#24 Jon83

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 11:38

I think if Vettel had won a dry Singapore, with Hamilton in 5th, it would have been very different today.

I think his crash was fatal for his championship, but I think it would have been Hamilton vs Verstappen for the win in the wet, and Vettel vs Verstappen for the win in the dry.

 

You might be right, we'll never know. 

 

Had Vettel had a huge advantage going into the final races and not won it, then maybe it would be fair to say he "lost it" but that was never the case. 

 

It's also too simplistic for Baku to be mentioned (by others) as it assumes everything plays out exactly how it did after the collision behind the SC. If that didn't happen, who knows, maybe things play out differently. 

 

Hamilton won it because he had the edge and consistency. Saying Vettel lost it is unfair on both drivers IMO.


Edited by Jon83, 30 October 2017 - 11:38.


#25 Knowlesy

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 11:41

Hamilton made the most of everything and that placed enormous pressure on Vettel and Ferrari.

He 100% won it.

#26 Spillage

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 11:46

50/50 for me. I think that on the whole the Mercedes has been both faster and more reliable, but Vettel has made some crucial errors. Hamilton's been virtually flawless.

#27 maverick69

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 11:46

Blatantly a combo.

 

One can go through a "Revisionist Table" - but at the end of the day, just a bit of basic savvy tells you that Vettel and Ferrari did not maximise their opportunities, whist Mercedes and Hamilton did.

 

TBH, it was such a profound skew - that I wonder if it can indeed be repeated again?



#28 Joseph85

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 11:53

Both. We'll never know what might have happened if Singapore went another way. 

 

Vettel would have had a lead after 70% of the races. Thats significant but because of the incident, it made his chances remote.



#29 Joseph85

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 11:55

I think if Vettel had won a dry Singapore, with Hamilton in 5th, it would have been very different today.

I think his crash was fatal for his championship, but I think it would have been Hamilton vs Verstappen for the win in the wet, and Vettel vs Verstappen for the win in the dry.

Especially when you look at what happened in malaysia. Ferrari was better than Mercedes in Malaysia...those 2 weeks could have been fatal for Lewis.



#30 Nonesuch

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 12:01

It could have been closer, but once Mercedes had their early season issues sorted they went from strength to strength. They dominated the summer - save for Ferrari's street-circuit advantage.

 

It was only an uncharacteristic number of weak performances by Hamilton in the middle of the season, in which Bottas won multiple races, that made it take so long to overhaul Ferrari.


Edited by Nonesuch, 30 October 2017 - 12:01.


#31 Rinehart

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 12:03

Ultimately the difference was Vettels Red Mist. 



#32 Knowlesy

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 12:03

Both. We'll never know what might have happened if Singapore went another way. 

 

Vettel would have had a lead after 70% of the races. Thats significant but because of the incident, it made his chances remote.

 


But why was the mistake made? Pressure, pure and simple. Seb was flat outdriven at Spa and the Mercedes looked to have come alive in Monza. He was desperate to make Singapore count and got it dreadfully wrong. If he was leading the championship after Monza, maybe he doesn't take that risk of moving over on Verstappen. The battle got into Vettel's head a number of time this season. He failed every test.

#33 Calorus

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 12:05

You might be right, we'll never know. 

 

Had Vettel had a huge advantage going into the final races and not won it, then maybe it would be fair to say he "lost it" but that was never the case. 

 

It's also too simplistic for Baku to be mentioned (by others) as it assumes everything plays out exactly how it did after the collision behind the SC. If that didn't happen, who knows, maybe things play out differently. 

 

Hamilton won it because he had the edge and consistency. Saying Vettel lost it is unfair on both drivers IMO.

 

I still think there's an argument for saying he lost it - because he had the raw speed to win it, but you're probably right to say if you can't stay on that knife-edge over the 20 races, you're not in contention, however good you are on an "on" day.



#34 Calorus

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 12:07

But why was the mistake made? Pressure, pure and simple. Seb was flat outdriven at Spa and the Mercedes looked to have come alive in Monza. He was desperate to make Singapore count and got it dreadfully wrong. If he was leading the championship after Monza, maybe he doesn't take that risk of moving over on Verstappen. The battle got into Vettel's head a number of time this season. He failed every test.

 

Monza was one of the few real superior Mercedes bloodbaths, Silverstone probably the other. Pole and strategy could have swung pretty much every other race if Vettel was there to win it.

By contrast Singapore and Monaco were Mercedes inferiority tracks and several others they were never shown to have a bigger difference between cars than drivers.


Edited by Calorus, 30 October 2017 - 13:39.


#35 dierome87

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 12:09

Monza was on of the few real superior car bloodbaths, Silverstone probably the other. Pole and strategy could swung pretty much every other race of Vettel was there to win it.

 

Agreed. This may be controversial, but I think Alonso could have done a better job with that same Ferrari...



#36 Rinehart

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 12:12

Vettel never had it to lose. The Hamilton / Mercedes package always had that little bit extra IMO.

If Vettel hadn't had been stupid in Singapore, he'd be 26 points behind and if he hadn't been stupid in Baku he's be 13 points behind. And Hamilton made the difference in Spa. If Vettel had won there, he'd be a point ahead. I think its clear Vettel has lost himself this championship, which feels good, since he's been absolutely gifted a couple. 



#37 Marklar

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 12:15

It was only an uncharacteristic number of weak performances by Hamilton in the middle of the season, in which Bottas won multiple races, that made it take so long to overhaul Ferrari.

Hamiltons weak performances were at the start of the season (Russia and perhaps Monaco), not in the middle.

Bottas only win in the middle of the season was Austria, where Hamilton had a gearbox penalty.

 

Yeah, that must be it  :drunk:

 

 

Agreed. This may be controversial, but I think Alonso could have done a better job with that same Ferrari...

It does depend on whether you think if Alonso had done the same in Baku and Singapore. This is what ultimately made the difference. Maybe also a couple more poles too, since they lost a few close ones by mistakes. Vettels race performances (pace wise) were usually good enough, though. I dont think that even Alonso could have done this much better.


Edited by Marklar, 30 October 2017 - 12:15.


#38 Maustinsj

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 12:17

Just think what might have been if Lewis HAD turned up for the fan day in Trafalgar Square!  :p



#39 Joshrobins13

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 12:33

A combination of the two. I think Lewis would have won the WDC in the Ferrari.

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#40 JacobRPP

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 12:42

I initially voted HAM/Merc, but after thinking about it, the correct reply would be;

- Merc won because they put sufficient pressure on Ferrari to lose it.

- I think if Ferrari had taken a step back and analysed the situation, counted the points etc. they would have had a bit more patience to withstand the pressure from Merc and not panicked and pushed their car(s) beyond the limit of failure.



#41 Spillage

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 12:42

A combination of the two. I think Lewis would have won the WDC in the Ferrari.

I don't agree with that. Vettel is only fifteen points ahead of Bottas in the Championship and Raikkonen is behind Ricciardo. The Ferrari isn't that good.



#42 SonGoku

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 12:51

A lot of Dutch F1 analysts answered this with Vettel dropped the ball. You can argue he had the car to become champion when you lead the championship until Monza and starts the next race on pole while your rival is P5.



#43 Joshrobins13

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 12:55

I don't agree with that. Vettel is only fifteen points ahead of Bottas in the Championship and Raikkonen is behind Ricciardo. The Ferrari isn't that good.

It depends how highly you rate Vettel’s performances this season. If you factor his errors at Baku, Singapore and Mexico, the points are pretty close. Then you look at smaller performance issues such as Spain Q3 error, should’ve won in Russia, awful Silverstone pace, poor Canada start, should have got Pole and the win in Austria?

#44 sopa

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 13:35

It depends how highly you rate Vettel’s performances this season. 

 

Apart from mistakes, I think some of Vettel's performances this year have gone a bit under the radar. And whenever he wins, it is all too easily written down to as Ferrari having "better pace".

 

One example about the matter of perspectives.

 

Bahrain GP. One of Vettel's best drives this year.

 

Vettel started 3rd, made a great start, had great pace, and won it in the end. Meanwhile Hamilton dropped back after the start, and was behind Bottas for a significant part of the race. Late in the race he was hunting Vettel down, but it was too late.

 

If the roles were reversed with Hamilton winning from P3 on the grid and Vettel spending more than half of the race behind his team-mate, everyone would say Hamilton won in an inferior car.



#45 sopa

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 13:40

And Hamilton made the difference in Spa.

 

It was not possible to overtake in Belgium. Twice Hamilton had better top speed at the end of the straight.



#46 Calorus

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 13:45

Apart from mistakes, I think some of Vettel's performances this year have gone a bit under the radar. And whenever he wins, it is all too easily written down to as Ferrari having "better pace".

 

One example about the matter of perspectives.

 

Bahrain GP. One of Vettel's best drives this year.

 

Vettel started 3rd, made a great start, had great pace, and won it in the end. Meanwhile Hamilton dropped back after the start, and was behind Bottas for a significant part of the race. Late in the race he was hunting Vettel down, but it was too late.

 

If the roles were reversed with Hamilton winning from P3 on the grid and Vettel spending more than half of the race behind his team-mate, everyone would say Hamilton won in an inferior car.

 

Bahrain was an excellent race for Vettel, the first four were a Championship wining masterclass of excellence at all times and dominance when possible. But then the rest of his season arrived.


Edited by Calorus, 30 October 2017 - 13:46.


#47 Calorus

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 13:45

It was not possible to overtake in Belgium. Twice Hamilton had better top speed at the end of the straight.

 

Hamilton should never have been in front.



#48 Marklar

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 13:45

If you make a hypothetical championship in which both Ferrari and Mercedes have a perfect reliability record and both Hamilton and Vettel no avoidable mistake Vettel would most likely lead the championship.

It then depends on whether you think that

A) Mercedes reliability and Hamiltons error-ratio were exceptionally good, or
B) Ferraris reliability and Vettels error-ratio were way too bad

Hard to say IMO. Saying that the Hamilton/Mercedes package was always better like some say couldnt be further away from the reality though. Until the Asia leg Ferrari had less results impacting relaibility issues than Mercedes and until mid-season Vettel was performing no worse than Hamilton. It's no coincidence that they lead the championship over 2/3 of the season. Bizzare that they are out of the fight with two in spare though.
 

Bahrain GP. One of Vettel's best drives this year.

 

Vettel started 3rd, made a great start, had great pace, and won it in the end. Meanwhile Hamilton dropped back after the start, and was behind Bottas for a significant part of the race. Late in the race he was hunting Vettel down, but it was too late.

 

If the roles were reversed with Hamilton winning from P3 on the grid and Vettel spending more than half of the race behind his team-mate, everyone would say Hamilton won in an inferior car.

One out of 18 races though. And this was already his best race of the season and one of Hamiltons worst.



#49 SenorSjon

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 13:49

Vettel had deeper lows than Hamilton. You can't have race-ending incidents in the reliability era.



#50 Sid04

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 14:02

I don't think so ferrari had the race pace advantage..looking at hamilton and Bottas performance difference Hamilton wasn't at his best in the first five six races..After Monaco till Monza for me the merc was clearly better car because of the nature of tracks..I don't think that Spa ferrari had the better car..Bottas was matching seb and Ham in the second half of the race clearly showing Lewis was controlling the pace..It might have been very close..In my opinion throughout the season on average Mercedes was slightly better car and Lewis was again slightly better/more complete compared to Vettel..I think Lewis's plus was Qualifying, consistency, wet weather driving and clean overtakes when needed, Seb's plus was his terrific race pace but, the biggest weakness was his clumsiness in starts and sometimes erratic qualies.