It has not been a part of rallycross at all since it began, until IMG got involved. It was a sport for semi pro's and rich men. That is now gone completely at the top level, a Schanche, Gollop Hansen would not be viable now.
So? Things change. Like it or not, more people want to watch professional, well known drivers rather than 'semi pros and rich men'.
F1's origin is a sport that was a pass time for wealthy aristocrats and their ilk. But guess what, it evolved over time and became the professional sport it is today. I don't see why that is a bad thing. In the case of rallycross, it has increased competition and resulted in perhaps the most talented field of drivers that it has ever enjoyed. Although I'm certain you'll disagree with that of course...
I find your fascination with IMG rather bizarre, particularly when there's the sport on a club level (the British Rallycross Championship, for instance) would seem to offer what you prefer.
The main issue is one of respect and consideration of the future. And also a framework that ralycross can build on nationally, the precedent being set is one of self and money.
Electric is a world future, not a club or national future, not within my lifetime anyway motorsport wise.
IMG have sucked rallycross dry for their own gain, yes they have done some good things, but the vast majority of what they have done, anyone with their money could have achieved, while also keeping in mind what people want and like and also the past and existing traditions and areas the sport was big in. Rallycross has been a sport waiting to explode for years, anyone who watched it for years knows that. Al they did positive was pump money at PR and marketing. Anyone could do that really.
They went to Argentina for Gods sake, and Turkey! No interest in rallycross there and they only went coz those governing bodies paid them to, not because they wanted to, leaving existing areas like Poland, Hungary, and other unable to pay the pathetic hosting fees to run races.
Electric is coming for sure, it will work in rallycross.
but my hope is that normal rallycross just leaves them to it.
I've been wanting to watch WRX and GRC for at least a couple of years now, but the biggest barrier I have found is actually finding any decent live coverage. Can't find GRC anywhere and I think WRX can be done through motorsport.tv (?) but I haven't yet been able to justify the fee for that yet (on top of everything else I'm paying and I don't think I'd use it often enough at the moment).
If having 9 interested manufacturers in an EV based WRX is enough to bring better, more accessible coverage then I struggle to see a downside. And even then, it might just tip the balance and convince me to pay a streaming fee if it remains on the same platform. We'll see.
WRX are on Eurosport. They changed it all completely recently so that all the supposed factory teams only race against each other not against the private guys too. Basically you only get 3 races live on tv. a hashed round up of the 4 heats, maybe a couple of heats and the two semis and the final.
ALL the support categories are dumped from live footage onto youtube. Yet somehow they still want to be there.
To much feature content, too much interview and product placement, not enough actual racing. All part of IMG trying to make it into something it's not really. It works for the kids and the phone monkeys, but not for me.
WRX are on Eurosport. They changed it all completely recently so that all the supposed factory teams only race against each other not against the private guys too. Basically you only get 3 races live on tv. a hashed round up of the 4 heats, maybe a couple of heats and the two semis and the final.
ALL the support categories are dumped from live footage onto youtube. Yet somehow they still want to be there.
To much feature content, too much interview and product placement, not enough actual racing. All part of IMG trying to make it into something it's not really. It works for the kids and the phone monkeys, but not for me.
The problem with this proposal is not that e-RX will be slow but that by having it on the bill with ICE cars, albeit those in lower classes, the electric cars will simply not appear as spectacular or exciting. And that cannot be good for the category, given that RX fans are probably there because they enjoy the noise and fury of the top cars. e-RX cars will surely be a bit of an anticlimax. Just as FE would look a bit tame if they ran even a Formula Ford race on the same bill.
Also by having a spec chassis and essentially a silhouette formula, they are watering down the diversity which has always been an important factor in RX.
I'm not a Tesla fan/owner....but even the Tesla SUV can out accelerate a 10 cylinder Audi R8 up to 100mph. I don't imagine RX cars reach 100mph too often in a race- if at all. Granted they will likely weigh more, but I dont see why they would be much slower. Especially if allowed torque vectoring trickier.
160-200k is basically as fast as they go. If ever a class was ideal for electric vehicles it is Rallycross.. 5 laps, twisty, monstrous acceleration etc.
Will i watch ERX? not likely, but the sport is generally hard to find races from.. i will check it out for sure. They could allow the cars to be quite fast to boost its image.
The problem with this proposal is not that e-RX will be slow but that by having it on the bill with ICE cars, albeit those in lower classes, the electric cars will simply not appear as spectacular or exciting. And that cannot be good for the category, given that RX fans are probably there because they enjoy the noise and fury of the top cars. e-RX cars will surely be a bit of an anticlimax. Just as FE would look a bit tame if they ran even a Formula Ford race on the same bill.
I would reserve final judgement on how impressive they are until we see them running. If they are light weight chassis with high power levels and all that instant torque, they should still be impressive if not an experience in itself - furious even. A truly anti-climax case would be keeping them low power and heavy, but from the sounds of it they are not because the RX format is perfectly suited to current generation and near future EVs. As I have said before the case for EV racing being fundamentally less interesting is a very dubious one, as it is almost entirely subjective.
Me personally? This eRX move is something that will get me watching RX more often, as opposed to turning away. Fancy that.
Me personally? This eRX move is something that will get me watching RX more often, as opposed to turning away. Fancy that.
As you are a known cheer leader for e-racing, it isn't a huge surprise to hear that!
I have no doubts on the technology side - even a Tesla on ludicrous mode ought to manage 5 short laps. But it is the lack of sound and fury that concerns me - a scrabbling of tyres and crunch of bodywork may not be enough to excite the usually highly enthusiastic RX crowd. Perhaps they should have tried a few exhibition events with EVs before leaping in the deep end like this. If it mucks up an exciting and competitive sport just to earn some 'green' brownie points, it will be a shame.
But we shall see. I may well be wrong - I often am.
They are only doing for one reason only. Not fans, not tv, not drivers, not sponsors. not anything else.
To attract manufacturers, that is the ONLY reason they are doing it. They are obsessed with it, and reeling from losing two last year and not attracting any more new ones. They lost Ford to pay for Ogier's new deal and tyhe others were really only sort of importer baced anyway. They only have VW and Peugeot left.
Electric does suit rallycross no doubt.
But as a fan sport it will be about as interesting as Formula E.
Will attract a niche audience, but turn off all existing rallycross fans, which is basically what IMG have been doing since they took it over a few years ago, so nothing really new there. It seems to be their modus operandi
They are only doing for one reason only. Not fans, not tv, not drivers, not sponsors. not anything else.
To attract manufacturers, that is the ONLY reason they are doing it. They are obsessed with it, and reeling from losing two last year and not attracting any more new ones. They lost Ford to pay for Ogier's new deal and tyhe others were really only sort of importer baced anyway. They only have VW and Peugeot left.
So what if they're only doing it to attract manufacturers? You said it yourself, they've lost two and are now down to two. That's not a good sign for a series holding official FIA World Championship status.
When you have nine manufacturers interested in an electric WRX and the alternative is two who may not even stay themselves... that's just an obvious choice to make.
If the alternative to an electric WRX is a slow lingering stagnation and death of the WRX, is that really good for RallyCross as a whole?
They are only doing for one reason only. Not fans, not tv, not drivers, not sponsors. not anything else.
Given FE's success at attracting big name sponsors, I don't think this is entriely accurate. Companies and brands love to be publicly involved in environmentally conscious initiatives because sustainability is a top issue for people, especially so for the younger generations. I wouldn't be surprised if IMG and the interested manufacturers predict that there would be more activity from sponsors in an electric WRX.
They're what, 600bhp in their current form? So it's confirmed that they will be more powerful and at the same weight than the current cars... oh boy oh boy this could be fun.
Seemingly so it. I think it would have been potentially more fun to give them a battery capacity and let them decide what power level to run at from there. Maybe something for the future, along with, I hope, allowing manufacturers to build their own chassis again once the rules have been bedded in.
Then again, maybe if one team comes along with an innovation and it able to run at significantly more power than everyone else the show dies, so perhaps a power limit isn't so bad.
They're what, 600bhp in their current form? So it's confirmed that they will be more powerful and at the same weight than the current cars... oh boy oh boy this could be fun.
Fun? There is no noise or skill in driving an electric car. Where is the fun coming from?
Is it spec chassis? Do you have to run (speculating here) one motor front and one rear? with no center axle?
That does appear to be the case, but we don't know for sure what the exact layout is yet because the tender has not yet been put out. Though the articles indeed hints at one motor per axle, and it wouldn't be too crazy to assume a centre mounted battery of some form.
I'm fully in agreement with anyone who says this isn't perhaps ideal and that open chassis rules would be much preferred. But I do think they have seen how well Formula E managed to build up from nothing using a spec chassis and decided that starting something relatively unknown requires this kind of approach at least in the early days. This way they can pull in manufacturers who have few if any EVs on sale right now but who have full intent to expand that into the early 2020s. Unlike Formula E, I expect the intended direction of these rules is much more likely to allow individual chassis designs in the future.
Fun? There is no noise or skill in driving an electric car. Where is the fun coming from?
Much of the fun comes from laughing at posts like this really. If you can't understand motorsport without the ICE then you should probably take up another hobby you can better understand.
500kW WRX EVs sounds utterly mental. Should be fun.
I do hope that the common-chassis silhouettes is a temporary thing though. Makes sense short term when there perhaps aren't so many rallycross worthy EVs around on our roads, but by the end of the rules cycle for this plan, there will surely be enough and I'd like to see individual chassis being raced.
And they just lost me - not that they ever had me to be honest.
The point of RX, like its big brother, rallying, is that they use road cars - highly modified of course, but still they are road cars like what you and me can buy, bruv. Silhouette bodywork is just a cop-out.
Give people the '2 motors, one on each axle; 500kW (680HP); Williams battery' and let them stick them into whatever chassis they choose. That would be in the spirit of RX. In the heyday of the sport, you could see VW Beetles, Ford Escorts, MG Metros, Porsches, all sorts of different cars. Not a spec chassis and fake bodywork.
The point of RX, like its big brother, rallying, is that they use road cars - highly modified of course, but still they are road cars like what you and me can buy, bruv. Silhouette bodywork is just a cop-out.
Give people the '2 motors, one on each axle; 500kW (680HP); Williams battery' and let them stick them into whatever chassis they choose. That would be in the spirit of RX. In the heyday of the sport, you could see VW Beetles, Ford Escorts, MG Metros, Porsches, all sorts of different cars. Not a spec chassis and fake bodywork.
Hard to disagree. As Ben says is kind of makes sense considering there aren't all that many EV models currently around I guess that silhouette bodywork would allow manufacturers to out trial the look of the many upcoming EV models in the early 2020s. If this is a permanent direction of where this is going it might be misguided.
I'll give it a try anyway, I'm not known for hiding my enthusiasm for EV tech so it might work for me, but I do think I'd rather see heavily modified road going EVs.
I think someone listened to the constant complaining of geo-blocking me and others did on the internet. Thank you gents. This series is MADE for Youtube:
I think someone listened to the constant complaining of geo-blocking me and others did on the internet. Thank you gents. This series is MADE for Youtube:
Hell is my favorite venue in this championship.
Yeah I was watching. That Joker Lap from Eriksson I think it was, was amazing.
1. Kristoffersson
2. Loeb
3. Solberg
ALL QUALIFYING SESSIONS WILL BE LIVE THIS WEEKEND AS WELL AS THE SEMI-FINALS AND FINALS.
Deadline for manufacturer commitments for 2020 is apparently mid August. Peugeot most keen, Ford, Audi and VW known possibilities. Supposedly want 4 to make it work. Unclear how close respective manufactures are, if it's a panic mode or negotiating tactic to stop dithering.
Powertrain rules were specifically derived so that they could be made up from adapted Formula E powertrains - I wonder how much bearing that will have. Also Benoit Dupont has swapped over from FE to EWRX to use his skills to set things up.
Well. Unlike you I most welcome this news. Don't know where you are resident,but here in the UK, traditional RallyX circuits the likes of Lydden Hill and Brands Hatch at real risk being curtailed due to noise pollution...Go figure.
Well. Unlike you I most welcome this news. Don't know where you are resident,but here in the UK, traditional RallyX circuits the likes of Lydden Hill and Brands Hatch at real risk being curtailed due to noise pollution...Go figure.
They have a new innovative technology now that can help.
Ok, a title change may be necessary for this one since eWRX in it's original form has been scrapped. Maybe to something like 'World RX events to introduce electric power from 2020' or even shifting the date from 2020 to 2021...
Because...
And they just lost me - not that they ever had me to be honest.
The point of RX, like its big brother, rallying, is that they use road cars - highly modified of course, but still they are road cars like what you and me can buy, bruv. Silhouette bodywork is just a cop-out.
Give people the '2 motors, one on each axle; 500kW (680HP); Williams battery' and let them stick them into whatever chassis they choose. That would be in the spirit of RX. In the heyday of the sport, you could see VW Beetles, Ford Escorts, MG Metros, Porsches, all sorts of different cars. Not a spec chassis and fake bodywork.
This is almost exactly what the replacement, Projekt E, has become. 2020 will see a STARD produced 450kW motor and battery kit currently shoved into a Ford Fiesta rallycross chassis. The plan is to run this in the support tiers for 2020 to help the series evaluate the infrastructure needs for 2021. After that the plan is (adapting a post I made in the WRX 2019 thread) to take the concept forward as follows:
Top Class
- Electrification kits will be supplied by Kriesel which will allow teams to convert an existing WRX Supercar chassis or develop a new one around it.
- Supply contract lasts for 4 years between 2021 and 2024.
- Total power output of 500kW (680hp) from 250kW motors on each axel with a 52.65kWh battery.
- Capped price of €300,000 purchase cost and €100,000 four year support package (€100,000 euros per year - cheaper than an ICE supply deal)
Junior eRX
- The 'arrive and drive' cousin of the original eWRX
- bespoke 4WD tubular chassis with 250kW (335hp) from a 32kWh battery
- Supplied by QEV technologies (formerly partnered with Mahindra FE)
- Entry fees of €150,000 per season or €30,000 per race
“There is no area for smaller and private teams to enter the world of electric motorsport, with a proper performance level, so we came up with a concept,” says [STARD CEO] Sakowicz. [..]
STARD sells its powertrain kit for €194,740 ($217,430), and the costs of fitting this into a car, which could be from effectively any manufacturer, would allow teams to build a complete car for around €300,000 (€335,000).
For comparison, a current ICE World RX Supercar comes in at approximately €500,000 ($558,000). What’s more, an ICE Supercar’s rebuild and running costs are estimated to be around 60 percent higher than for a Projekt E car."
Honestly, STARD are pioneering a great deal here and it's a very important development. This is taking off the shelf road-EV motors and putting it into a versatile system for use in Rally/Rallycross/Touring cars to gain comparable performance to ICE but with lower purchase and maintaiance costs. For any series running this kind of category in which the lifeblood is the presence of independant teams, this is almost impossible to ignore. In addition, retro-fitting exisitng bodyshells with electric power might well be a significant near-future industry market, and one in which third party/tuner garage style outfitd may play a huge role. Cheaply priced onversion kits could be a real option to avoid the pointless scrapping of otherwise perfectly servicable chassis in the face of changing consumer habits or stricter ICE regulations.
Call me crazy, but I think this STARD project is as important for grassroots racing as Formula E is/was for the international tiers.
Didn't care much for WRX but it's still sad to see where motorsport is heading.
For a long time the interest of the manufacturers were aligned with the interests of the fans but I feel manufacturers and fans are growing further and further apart.
There are ofcourse motorsport fans who would still be as enthusiastic about electric cars as they were about internal combustion engined cars but there is also a big group of motorsport fans who won't and I think the FIA doesn't take that into consideration enough.
By switching to electric cars will inevitably lead to a decrease in attendance, popularity and viewing figures, no matter how good the racing might be. For a lot of people motorsport is more than just good racing.
50 years ago racing cars had no seatbelts, no aerodynamics and no telemetry. I don't think combustion engined racing cars will be particularly missed in another 50 years time, most of the fans of the day won't even have seen a combustion engined race.
As someone in his 40's I will miss the noise and violence of combustion engined racing cars, but at the end of the day, what does it really matter, as long as the vehicles are propelled somehow, we can have motor racing. Which is the principle aspect of it all.
