20 replies to this topic

[ROGERIO MACHADO]

Hi everyone. Recently I saw at Retromobile meeting in Paris a 1958 Lotus 16 that was probably be driven in 1959 by Jim Clark on his first test with F1/F2 cars. I found on the Border Reivers that they had run a test with Lotus at Brands Hatch and Jim Clark drove that car. Some info about this very beginning of Clark in a first test ? Thank you.

[2F-001]

Welcome Rogerio!

In his 1968 book** about Clark, Graham Gauld says that the test at Brands Hatch was in 1958. Border Reivers were to buy an F2-spec car, with Clark as the proposed driver - who was there at Brands for try out. Graham Hill being there to drive the new F1 car.

Gauld reported that Chapman had never met Clark before (and neither, it seems, had Hill) but was impressed with him. However, Chapman brought his test to an early and abrupt halt when he learned that Clark had driven neither a single-seater racing car, nor the Brands circuit, before. Hill took over the car until a wheel came adrift, rather putting Clark off the whole idea.

 

That book is the only place I can recall reading about that, so maybe others have more information, or a clarification of what took place.

 

(**Jim Clark: portrait of a great driver, by Graham Gauld, Hamlyn, 1968)

 

(Moderators: maybe this ought to be in a thread of its own?)

Edited by 2F-001, 14 February 2018 - 20:00.

[ROGERIO MACHADO]

2F-001

 

Thank you both for the welcome so for the answer. It was really new for me to know that Clark had try that Lotus 16. He`s allways remembered with Lotus rear engine era.

[Tim Murray]

(Moderators: maybe this ought to be in a thread of its own?)

Thanks Tony - sorted

[D-Type]

I've seen the story in several Jim Clark books, including Eric Dymcock's 1997 book 'Jim Clark, Tribute to a Champion' and Andrew Tulloch's 'Jim Clark, Grand Prix Legend',  but both these refer to Graham Gauld's book in their bibliographies.  However. Andrew Tulloch also refers to being told about the test by Ian Scott-Watson so I think things did happen the way it's told. 
However, I would be highly sceptical about whether the car at Retromobile is the Lotus 16 he actually drove.  This would be very hard to establish (rather like every 250F being ex-Moss or ex-Fangio or both until Barry Hobkirk, David McKinney, and our own Don Capps sorted out the chassis histories).

[Tim Murray]

It appears there is some justification for believing that the car at Rétromobile is the car Jim Clark tested in 1958. Here’s what Doug Nye wrote in Theme Lotus:

... the first customer car was finally completed in time for the 1958 London Motor Show, where it shared its stand with the prototype Lotus Elite which had consumed so much of Colin’s time.

John Fisher, the Portsmouth motor trader, bought the car for Bruce Halford to drive in Formula 2 events in the new year, while Lotus were to use it in the meantime until their own 1959 cars became available. The Fisher car’s frame (originally ‘364’ but renumbered ‘362’ after the Portuguese write-off) was similar in essentials to those of the Reims prototypes, but it featured the detachable tail and engine-bay members and had its sheet firewall-bulkhead angled across the frame in order to match the engine’s rear mounts and to improve stiffness. After the Motor Show this car was taken to Brands Hatch for testing by prospective team drivers and customers. Down from Scotland came a youthful sports car pilot named Jim Clark, whose backers were considering Formula 2. It was his first drive in a Lotus, his first in a single-seater car and his first time at Brands, but although he found the 16’s cockpit very confined he was quick and neat. Count Stephen Ouvaroff, all 6ft 6in of him, tried next and brought the car in with its brake discs glowing cherry red, his large feet having flattened the throttle and brake pedals together. Then Hill took out the car to show them all how it should be done, promptly threw a wheel at Paddock Hill Bend and capsized against the safety bank! The Scots were unimpressed and Fisher was to remain Lotus’ only new type 16 customer.

Doug goes on to relate how it took two days to find Hill’s errant wheel after it soared into the woods, and how Halford went on to have a fairly luckless season with ‘362’, including being involved in the famous three-car F2 pile-up in the 1959 Monaco GP.

The Rétromobile car is currently for sale, and the sales blurb largely matches what Doug wrote:

https://www.autoclas...om/advert/36062

So it does seem that the car at Rétromobile has a good claim to being the one Clark drove. Here’s a photo of the car at the show:

https://www.ultimate...-16-133605.html

[2F-001]

It seems a little odd that Chapman was quite so concerned about Clark's lack of single-seater experience at the Brands Hatch test. He had already won about twenty races that year alone - admittedly many were relatively minor, but a dozen of those wins were in a D-type (which he'd also raced at Spa on his first visit there); he wasn't exactly a unskilled novice... Although, of course, Chapman soon realised that.

On a (loosely) related matter, the repaired chassis of the original '362' - all-but written off at Oporto (Allison) - is suggested to be the basis of Anthony Brooke's "Lotus 16 special". I know nothing at all about that car; what became of that one?

Re. the provenance of 16s: don't we miss David Beard... ?

Edited by 2F-001, 15 February 2018 - 11:05.

[Glengavel]

It appears there is some justification for believing that the car at Rétromobile is the car Jim Clark tested in 1958. Here’s what Doug Nye wrote in Theme Lotus:

Doug goes on to relate how it took two days to find Hill’s errant wheel after it soared into the woods, and how Halford went on to have a fairly luckless season with ‘362’, including being involved in the famous three-car F2 pile-up in the 1959 Monaco GP.

The Rétromobile car is currently for sale, and the sales blurb largely matches what Doug wrote:

https://www.autoclas...om/advert/36062

So it does seem that the car at Rétromobile has a good claim to being the one Clark drove. Here’s a photo of the car at the show:

https://www.ultimate...-16-133605.html

 

I wonder why Border Reivers didn't look elsewhere for a Formula 2 car, or why it would be another year before Clark tried a single-seater. Did the Lotus's wheel-shedding antics put him off?

[Dutchy]

On a (loosely) related matter, the repaired chassis of the original '362' - all-but written off at Oporto (Allison) - is suggested to be the basis of Anthony Brooke's "Lotus 16 special". I know nothing at all about that car; what became of that one?

That was the car resurrected (as a 2 litre IIRC) by Simon Phillips in the 1970s and painted a dull cherry red. It took a fair time for it to be accepted as eligible by the VSCC on account of its Bristol gearbox. Later on its was campaigned by Chris Drake in a much brighter scarlet livery and ran a 2.2 litre Climax engine. I'm not sure where it is now.

[Tim Murray]

On a (loosely) related matter, the repaired chassis of the original '362' - all-but written off at Oporto (Allison) - is suggested to be the basis of Anthony Brooke's "Lotus 16 special". I know nothing at all about that car; what became of that one?

Re. the provenance of 16s: don't we miss David Beard... ?

Here’s what our Doug wrote in Theme Lotus:

‘B1’: Climax FPF 4-cyl - built by Anthony Brooke 1959 from ex-Team and ex-Laystall parts and early 1958-style chassis possibly ex-362 - fitted Bristol gearbox in unit with engine and Lotus ‘box at rear’ as ratio-changer - to Don Burke 1963 - Brian Eckersley/Nigel Woollett mid-1960s - Amschel Rothschild 1977 - through John Harper 1978 ...

Only another 40 years of history to find.

ETA: In this earlier thread on Anthony Brooke’s Lotus 12 and 16 cars, David McKinney posted this:

I believe Brooke used parts of both to build one car, a 16, which is at present owned by Eddie McGuire (UK)

[llmaurice]

He did indeed attend that test and as quoted, Graham then took the car back and put in some solid laps until the rear wheel departed leaving him laid out with some blood in evidence in the area of his ear . This fortunately turned out be nothing worse than a cut caused by the damaged screen.
Back up in the paddock dear Cliff Allison was heard to murmur "Well, that made my mind up" and so we lost Cliff to Ferrari !

[cooper997]

Always enjoy the little nuggets llmaurice reveals.

 

Stephen

[Roger Clark]

David Beard wrote an article about 362-2 in the Historic Lotus register magazine, Autumn 2003. He started:

“Which was the first single seater Lotus driven by Jim Clark? Which was the first single seater Lotus to win a race? Which Lotus took Graham Hill to his first single seater victory? Which was the first F2. Lotus to win a race?”

At the end the f the article he said: “the car is currently in a dismantled state, awaiting return to the collector mentioned earlier. Its South American history is clear from the obvious body modifications: large Louvre in the tail, an extra scoop on the left hand side of the engine cover.... The crest of Ecurie Aquila still adorns the side of the faded red bodywork. The gear lever is mounted in a quadrant affair which would enable a “migratory” rather than positive stop gear=change suggesting that one of the South African owners finally despaired of making the mechanism work in its original form. Most interestingly, the bottom chassis tubes seem to show evidence of the repair after Bruce Halford’s Monaco shunt; there is a joint where the original (and very rare) round shouldered Reynolds tubing changes to the more usual square cornered variety. Bruce himself soon spotted this when reacquainted with the chassis.

“362-2 exists as the only Lotus 16 not in racing order, but definitely one of the most original.”

David is much missed.

[Sisyphus]

I have a copy of "Jim Clark at the Wheel" credited to Jim himself and published in 1965.

 

At any rate, here is what he says about the Lotus 16 test:

 

"I climbed into the car and gently tried to find out where everything was.  But it was so tight in there I almost made complete nonsense of it at the very first corner...I remember thinking 'what would Chapman say about me if I wrote the car off on the first corner?'...whilst I was driving, Colin had turned to Ian Scott Watson and said 'He's not bad, not bad for a fellow who has never driven the car before.'  

 

At this Ian put his foot in it by saying 'Yes, not bad considering he hasn't even seen the circuit before either.'  I believe Colin just about did his nut on the spot..."

 

Jim says he did 10 laps in the first session before coming in.  He later did a second session and did a 58.9 sec lap which he notes was fast but Graham Hill did a 56.3 for an unofficial lap record.

 

Then he says about Graham's accident:

 

"What put me off the car was that I stepped out and Graham Hill took over again and promptly lost a wheel at Paddock Bend.  The car rolled over and over and Graham was flung out but that was enough for me.  I said I wouldn't drive the car.  I remember saying that I was not going to drive anything that broke like that, and wouldn't have anything more to do with the Formula Two Lotus."

 

But obviously changed his mind later...

 

Interesting that Jim found the 16 a tight fit!

[Michael Ferner]

Coming from a Touring car regular, not really surprising, is it?

[Glengavel]

I recall reading somewhere that the cockpit of the Border Reivers' D-Type was hacked about behind the driver's seat to accommodate Clark's laid-back straight-arm driving style.

[D-Type]

I recall reading somewhere that the cockpit of the Border Reivers' D-Type was hacked about behind the driver's seat to accommodate Clark's laid-back straight-arm driving style.

I'm not sure about the D-Type but they certainly modified the Lister-Jaguar, I think it was ex Bruce Halford.

Edited by D-Type, 24 February 2018 - 22:12.

[2F-001]

I don't think GG's book makes a specific reference to Clark having a second stint in the car at Brands (see ref. in the post above by Sisyphus), but that after Chapman had called him in - disconcerted by the driver's lack of experience - JC was consigned to some lappery in an Elite. Presumably he conducted himself with sufficient aplomb to be allowed out again in the 16...

[2F-001]

I neglected to thank Dutchy and Tim for the responses re. '362'. I'm sure I saw the car during Simon Phillips' custody of it (there can't have been many 16s of that colour...) but knew nothing of its history.

 

And though I must have had a copy of Theme Lotus for thirty-five years or more, I don't remember seeing the 'B1' reference before!  

 

Always something new to see amid the familiar.

[TerryS]

LOTUS 16 EX JIM CLARK FOR SALE

https://racecarsdire...7/1958-lotus-16

Would you buy a used car from these guys?

Is saying the car is "ex Jim Clark" truth in advertising?

To old fashioned me the term "ex" implies ownership or extensive use. Neither are the case here.

If you are going to note Jim Clark tested it, why not put his impressions, which were not very favourable.

[RogerFrench]

Those people are semi-literate, and ignorant! Denis Jenkins indeed!