141 replies to this topic

[statman]

New season has begun!

 

Teams and drivers:

 

Tickford Racing - Ford

* Mark Winterbottom

* Cameron Waters

* Chaz Mostert

* Richie Stanaway

 

DJR Team Penske - Ford

* Fabian Coulthard

* Scott McLaughlin

 

Triple Eight Race Engineering - Holden

* Jamie Whincup

* Shane van Gisbergen

* Craig Lowndes

 

Nissan Motorsport

* Andre Heimgartner

* Rick Kelly

* Michael Caruso

* Simona de Silvestro

 

Walkinshaw Andretti United - Holden

* Scott Pye

* James Courtney

 

Brad Jones Racing - Holden

* Nick Percat

* Tim Slade

 

Erebus Motorsport - Holden

* David Reynolds

* Anton de Pasquale

 

Garry Rogers Motorsport - Holden

* Garth Tander

* James Golding

 

Matt Stone Racing - Ford

* Todd Hazelwood

 

23Red Racing - Ford

* Will Davison

 

Charlie Schwerkolt Racing - Holden

* Lee Holdsworth

 

Tekno Autosports - Holden

* Jack Le Brocq

 

Tim Blanchard Racing - Holden

* Tim Blanchard

 

 

2018 Calendar

 

 

 

 

 

[statman]

reminder of the 2017 finale:

 

 

Incredible ;)

[WonderboyF1]

Tough to follow in the U.K but racing is always good and the cars are exciting!

[RacingGreen]

One round in and two controversies already, 

 

Holden's weight

 

Track limits

Edited by RacingGreen, 05 March 2018 - 00:02.

[Balthazar]

 

 

 

I spent the weekend getting my bogan on in this grandstand (inside of Turn 1, which is effectively Turn 2 too, a.k.a. The Chicane)...

 

'twas a great drive for Courtney in Race 1, and an equally great drive for Reynolds in Race 2. The new ZB 'Common-dore' doesn't look too offensive in race trim, either.

 

I (and most fans of the Super Taxis) really want McLaughlin to get the championship this year (even if he is a Kiwi).

 

Edited by Balthazar, 05 March 2018 - 12:29.

[OvDrone]

I really enjoyed Adelaide again. Top championship, lotsa talent, great cars. Quite the spectacle seeing those cars blast through those tight Adelaide old school bends.

 

Big SVG fan here, so I'm hoping he can have more races like these throughout the season.

 

Yeah, last season's finale still makes my jaw drop. Show you that you can't ever give up. Roll on Melbourne.

[Sardukar]

One round in and two controversies already, 

 

Holden's weight

 

Track limits

 

Meanwhile Ford had a huge engine advantage last year and Nissan are continually off the pace but if Holden have an advantage it's a controversy? I've only been watching Supercars for a few seasons now but the bias that exists within the series is strange to me.

[RPM40]

Meanwhile Ford had a huge engine advantage last year and Nissan are continually off the pace but if Holden have an advantage it's a controversy? I've only been watching Supercars for a few seasons now but the bias that exists within the series is strange to me.

It’s just politics. Red Bull won both races at Adelaide last year too, let’s wait for tracks with longer corners before claiming they have an advantage

[teejay]

Meanwhile Ford had a huge engine advantage last year and Nissan are continually off the pace but if Holden have an advantage it's a controversy? I've only been watching Supercars for a few seasons now but the bias that exists within the series is strange to me.

 

 

One Ford team got it right last year.. 

 

There is approximately 40kg of weight that the ZB has to play with down low. 

[RacingGreen]

Meanwhile Ford had a huge engine advantage last year and Nissan are continually off the pace but if Holden have an advantage it's a controversy? I've only been watching Supercars for a few seasons now but the bias that exists within the series is strange to me.

 

It's a controversy not because it's Holden but because it is likely to drive costs up when there has been a real effort in recent years to control costs. Australia has a population of only 24M and no domestic car manufacturing to showcase and underwrite the series. We won't even have a series if the costs get out of hand so I would have thought it was in everyone's best interests to see that doesn't happen.

No bias towards any team in my comments.

[V8 Fireworks]

It’s just politics. Red Bull won both races at Adelaide last year too, let’s wait for tracks with longer corners before claiming they have an advantage

 

IF the Commodore bodyworks weighs 40kg less that is not mere politics, but a significant unfair advantage.

 

There should be a minimum weight for bodywork, just as there is for the engine and for the driver.

 

One Ford team got it right last year.. 

 

There is approximately 40kg of weight that the ZB has to play with down low. 

[teejay]

ZB is composite all over - that is needed to make it fit the sizing/shaping needed to be a race car in the series. 

 

Nothing wrong there. 

 

The FGX Falcon still retain a steel roof/bonnet/boot - all of that weight raises the centre of gravity. 

 

In a parity series any advantage is exploitable... 

[RPM40]

IF the Commodore bodyworks weighs 40kg less that is not mere politics, but a significant unfair advantage.

There should be a minimum weight for bodywork, just as there is for the engine and for the driver.

It’s not underweight, the issue is they are using ballast to increase the weight and have a weight distribution advantage

[Jazza]

ZB is composite all over - that is needed to make it fit the sizing/shaping needed to be a race car in the series.

Nothing wrong there.

The FGX Falcon still retain a steel roof/bonnet/boot - all of that weight raises the centre of gravity.

In a parity series any advantage is exploitable...

But why is it composite all over?

The series has had six cars;

Holden
Ford
Nissan
Volvo
Mercedes
Holden #2

Why does this second Holden need so much composite material to fit the shape when the other 5 aren’t exactly like their road car counterparts either? They have all had to make new panels to fit the base chassis, so how did Holden get to use lighter materials while others have been stuck with steel? (The race only panels certainly aren’t all steel, as we have seen in accidents and fires panels break and burn on all car models. So how did Holden get away with having so much less steel than the others when they have all had to make fake panels to fit the race car?)

[teejay]

Because the VF Commodore was built in Australia with tons of locally made panels to suit. 

 

The new ZB is basically an Opel that has been imported to Australia.

 

It is - 

 

1) Much smaller so panels needed to be tweaked/scaled/etc to fit the COTF chassis 

2) Much harder to source spares at short notice 

 

The FGX from Ford is basically a decade old for the most part now, even the FGX is a few years old, and bits are starting to become an issue. They will go all composite at some point whether it be through this parity drive or through needs to service spares. 

[RacingGreen]

And the Andretti ZB has more "tricky" (dare I say "Faux")  bits coming from the US.

 

http://www.supercars...-debut-at-agp/ 

[Jazza]

Because the VF Commodore was built in Australia with tons of locally made panels to suit.

The new ZB is basically an Opel that has been imported to Australia.

It is -

1) Much smaller so panels needed to be tweaked/scaled/etc to fit the COTF chassis
2) Much harder to source spares at short notice

The FGX from Ford is basically a decade old for the most part now, even the FGX is a few years old, and bits are starting to become an issue. They will go all composite at some point whether it be through this parity drive or through needs to service spares.

But surely the Nissan (as well as the Volvo and Mercedes) must have been mostly composite as well? None of them would fit the supercar chassis, so how was this dealt with in the past?

Also the VE and VF road cars are bigger than the race cars. The race cars didn’t have steel doors, bonnet, roof etc (accidents and fires prove that), for this reason, as they had to shorten the road cars to fit the specifications. So this isn’t a new problem, but it does seem that the ZB is taking the piss when it comes to needing new parts, as the other 5 models that have all needed new panels made to fit the supercar chassis but didn’t create controversy in doing so.

Edited by Jazza, 06 March 2018 - 06:05.

[teejay]

The Volvo and Merc no longer exist so hard including them. 

 

I don't disagree with you - but those two things were the arguments Holden bought to the table to allow the composite stuff to be used en mass. 

 

I have no doubt they could have worked out a way to make it work - but outsourcing panels to 888 made the argument even easier to make I guess. 

[Sardukar]

It's a controversy not because it's Holden but because it is likely to drive costs up when there has been a real effort in recent years to control costs. Australia has a population of only 24M and no domestic car manufacturing to showcase and underwrite the series. We won't even have a series if the costs get out of hand so I would have thought it was in everyone's best interests to see that doesn't happen.

No bias towards any team in my comments.

 

Don't we have an Indian manufacturer taking over in Adelaide or something? i get the costs argument, but ultimately the teams should be able to do whatever they want its up to Supercars and CAMS to make the rules tighter.

[DS27]

Scott and Frosty were both unlucky. I'm not sure what can be done, but the track limits rule sucks. Scott could have won race 2 if not for the puncture, so I won't give up hope after just one race.

 

Whincups first DNF in 136 races - hard to believe that stat can be true in a series like Supercars.

[RPM40]

Scott and Frosty were both unlucky. I'm not sure what can be done, but the track limits rule sucks. Scott could have won race 2 if not for the puncture, so I won't give up hope after just one race.

 

Whincups first DNF in 136 races - hard to believe that stat can be true in a series like Supercars.

 

He would have won only if Whincup's car failed. He wouldn't have won on pace.

[statman]

Finally came around to watch the races in Melbourne, during the F1 weekend. Great races, certainly compared to the F1 race 

 

4 different winners, Pye's first!

 

That rain race was incredible.

[f1paul]

Cracking opening to the season. It just keeps on delivering.

 

6 races, 5 different winners.

 

Tazzie this weekend - shortest circuit of the year at just 2.41KM http://www.supercars...ns-with-tander/

 

New knockout qualifying as well. This series gets the formats right nearly every time.

 

2 races. One on Saturday - 120KM and one on Sunday - 200KM

Edited by f1paul, 05 April 2018 - 20:31.

[f1paul]

​Remember last year and the massive pile up

 

[f1paul]

Holden get rid of the V6 Turbo engine plan!   https://www.autospor...an-indefinitely

 

Long live the V8s!   

[teejay]

Lowndes back on form.. hopefully.

[ezequiel]

Simona performing in FP2 it seems. Best of the Nissans.

[Jazza]

The commentators have really been making a big issue of left foot vs right foot braking. Ingall started to talk about it last year as a way to explain Coulthard’s (left) lack of speed compared to McLaughlin (right). This round it has been the hot topic, with the explanation being the left creates a lack of brake pressure, as well as less control modulating the brakes and controlling the balance and pitch.

Personally I find this a lot of crap. I see no reason why the left leg can’t push the pedal as hard as the right. I see no reason why brake modulation with the left can’t be done as precisely as the right. And as for controlling the balance and pitch, that has always been the big advantage of left foot braking, hence why everyone in open wheel racing moved to it once they went to paddle shifting.

The only reason why I could see left foot braking being an issue in these cars in the inability to slightly disengage the clutch during downshifts, allowing for a bit of slip and stopping the harsh engine hold back on down shits. Apart from that (a reason that no one has mentioned so far) I find all the other explanations given to be unconvincing.

Anyone got any other explanations as to why right foot would be better than left foot in supercars?

Edited by Jazza, 08 April 2018 - 00:38.

[RPM40]

The commentators have really been making a big issue of left foot vs right foot braking. Ingall started to talk about it last year as a way to explain Coulthard’s (left) lack of speed compared to McLaughlin (right). This round it has been the hot topic, with the explanation being the left creates a lack of brake pressure, as well as less control modulating the brakes and controlling the balance and pitch.

Personally I find this a lot of crap. I see no reason why the left leg can’t push the pedal as hard as the right. I see no reason why brake modulation with the left can’t be done as precisely as the right. And as for controlling the balance and pitch, that has always been the big advantage of left foot braking, hence why everyone in open wheel racing moved to it once they went to paddle shifting.

The only reason why I could see left foot braking being an issue in these cars in the inability to slightly disengage the clutch during downshifts, allowing for a bit of slip and stopping the harsh engine hold back on down shits. Apart from that (a reason that no one has mentioned so far) I find all the other explanations given to be unconvincing.

Anyone got any other explanations as to why right foot would be better than left foot in supercars?

 

Seems odd to me, as left foot braking is usually an advantage in most cars, it enables you to manipulate both the brake and throttle mid corner to make small adjustments.

 

Unless they're using the clutch at all, that is the only reason I could think to not left foot brake.

[Yhamm]

https://www.autospor...rt-with-mustang

 

 

Ford Australia will revive its factory Supercars programme in 2019 and bring the Mustang bodyshape to the series.

Edited by Yhamm, 17 April 2018 - 11:11.

[f1paul]

It's just brilliant news! 8 Mustangs on the grid with the Holden Zbs in 2019 is just gonna be great. Wonder what Nissan will do? I would like them to stay but I can see them pulling out. Will Chevy come along to join the party?   

 

Meanwhile, there is a race this weekend at Phillip Island. 

 

2X250KM races, one on Saturday, one on Sunday. Back to normal qualifying with one 20 minute session in each day.

 

Looks like it will be dry, should be cracking.   

[Yhamm]

 Will Chevy come along to join the party? 

Why would they? they already have Holden there

[f1paul]

Why would they? they already have Holden there

Dunno. Just hoping that another name joins the grid.

[krapmeister]

Nissan withdraws from Supercars...

 

https://www.speedcaf...timas-continue/

[Jazza]

Wow. So after all the work with Gen 1 and now Gen 2 turbo cars over the last half decade, we are back to just Ford and Holden as the only two factory supported programs.

It would be unfair to say it was a failure, but in the end it didn’t really get far from where it started.

[Alfisti]

So predictable. 

 

They underestimate the talent the big teams have an especially underestimate the engines, only the Volvo had any clue with the engine. 

[f1paul]

​Yeah it was always coming. I was desperately hoping that they would surprise everyone with a GTR next year but it wasn't to be.

 

There will still be 4 Nissans on the grid, just without manufacturer support. Just like Ford now but I think they'll struggle a lot and we won't even Nissans at all in 2020.

[Alfisti]

I was all for going to V6 turbos but TBH, with so many turbo cars on the road and ever shrinking engines, a 5 litre NA V8 going real hard up mountain straight is a thing of beauty. My next car may well be a V8, just to get it done before the go the way of the dinosaur. 

[f1paul]

I was and still am the kind of person who just loves the history and the noise of the V8 and I'm glad to see it stay for a little longer.

 

Things will surely change but you can't beat a V8!

[RacingGreen]

Sad to see Supercars' lose a factory team, even an under-performing one. We need to be asking ourselves what could have been done in terms of the series rules and marketing to convince them to stay around given that new car sales continue to be strong.

 

 

 

Perhaps Supercars' are just adverts for the wrong vehicles. Quoting from the FCAI "The 2017 record year also marked a continued shift in buyer preference and market dynamics with the Toyota Hilux topping the national vehicle sales charts over a 12-month period for the second consecutive year .

It also marked the first full year in which SUV (Sports Utility Vehicle) sales exceeded those of passenger cars. Australians bought 465,646 SUVs during 2017 for a 39.2 per cent share of the total market, compared with 450,012 passenger cars with a 37.8 per cent share."

In short given the shift in buyer preferences maybe we need to ditch these gen 2 cars completely for a category racing Utes and SUV's.

[boomn]

In short given the shift in buyer preferences maybe we need to ditch these gen 2 cars completely for a category racing Utes and SUV's.

SuperUtes is launching for 2018... I think the first race is this weekend!  Turbo diesel, RWD, dual cab trucks.  It's a lower tier support race.  They had a previous version that launched in 2001 but folded a year or two ago

 

[RacingGreen]

SuperUtes is launching for 2018... I think the first race is this weekend!  Turbo diesel, RWD, dual cab trucks.  It's a lower tier support race.  They had a previous version that launched in 2001 but folded a year or two ago

 

 

 

I'm tossing up going to Winton this weekend. (I've got a bit of a looming crisis so may not be able to get there.) If I can I'll go early to see these new utes but the last time I saw a ute race it was pretty craptacular.

[FPV GTHO]

So predictable.

They underestimate the talent the big teams have an especially underestimate the engines, only the Volvo had any clue with the engine.

GRM was arguably a much stronger team than either the Kellys or Erebus. The former were always reliant on Walkinshaw when they were at their peak, the latter swept a rather large broom through the place when they took over SBR.

Had 888, Prodrive or Walkinshaw switched to a new manufacturer i dont think it would have been the embarrasment it has been for Nissan and Erebus/Mercedes Benz.

[teejay]

I'm tossing up going to Winton this weekend. (I've got a bit of a looming crisis so may not be able to get there.) If I can I'll go early to see these new utes but the last time I saw a ute race it was pretty craptacular.

 

Those things.... 

 

Slow

Hideous

Slow

 

They look so so so so bad around the track. 

[teejay]

Shame about Nissan - so we've had 

 

Merc - where they went out of their way to deny official involvement in the series 

Vovlo - in and out, took their cars home leaving GRM in the creek somewhat

Nissan - who knows how much money down the drain... 

 

Back to where we started... 

 

Holden - in trouble in Aus. Selling NOTHING atm compared to previous. 

Ford - back in with some factory support. 

 

Would be great to convince Toyota maybe? A Camry supercar?

[statman]

^ ^ ironically a great weekend for Nissan last time out! Well done to Rick Kelly.

 

We've now had 8 different winners in 14 races.

[f1paul]

It was indeed. 

 

Mclaughlin will be very tough to beat in the championship. He'll probably need a DNF at Sandown or Bathurst (again) to be caught because he's on great form. That said, I hope SVG can close him down so we get a battle of the Kiwis!

 

Darwin next on the Le Mans weekend.

[f1paul]

Well into the second half of the season and there's some talk of making this championship a winter series from as early as 2020/21...

 

https://www.autospor...calendar-switch

 

The reason - to avoid clashes with AFL and the National Rugby League 

[DS27]

I missed this when it was announced a week or two ago, but Craig Lowndes has announced his retirement from full time racing at the end of this year. 

 

Sad day as a fan, but he has had a great career and I think he is doing the right thing as time waits for no man, and that has become increasingly clear over the last few years. 

 

The one positive is he will join the tv commentary team - his personality will be great for that.

[NorwegianRudo]

I missed this when it was announced a week or two ago, but Craig Lowndes has announced his retirement from full time racing at the end of this year. 

 

Sad day as a fan, but he has had a great career and I think he is doing the right thing as time waits for no man, and that has become increasingly clear over the last few years. 

 

The one positive is he will join the tv commentary team - his personality will be great for that.

God I hope he isn't put into the actual commentary booth. He sat in last year during a practice session after crashing his car and it was painfully awful. Hopefully they put him with Ingall as a pre/post session expert. 

Edited by NorwegianRudo, 17 July 2018 - 15:08.