80 replies to this topic

[HistoryFan]

There are some talks about how IndyCar will look like 2021 onwards.

 

http://racer.com/201...engine-formula/

http://racer.com/201...assis-timeline/

 

- new engine will debut in 2021.

- currently there is no sign of a third manufacture, what is very disappointing.

- it's very unlikely there will be electric hybrid or V8 engines.

- It's very likely the engine will be almost the same like now: 2.2 litres, V6 turbo charges

- But it could increase power to or above 900 horsepower (currently 750).

- the new chassis will debut in 2021 or 2022.

- if there is a third manufacture, it could be multiple chassis builders, not only Dallara

- it could also be possible IndyCar will do LMP2 style, multiple chassis suppliers, but a single engine supplier.

 

Michael Andretti is pushing for hybrid cars: http://www.autobild....n-12590179.html

 

[Risil]

- it could also be possible IndyCar will do LMP2 style, multiple chassis suppliers, but a single engine supplier.

 

I don't think Racer are implying that Indycar will go spec engine, just that they will take an active role in tendering the chassis suppliers and ensuring that costs/performance disparities don't get out of hand.

[HistoryFan]

I wouldn't be surprised if one of the current manufactures is leaving IndyCar if there will not be a third manufacture.

I can't really understand why there is no interest of a third manufacture.

[paulb]

Not surprised Andretti is pushing for hybrids, given his FE program.

 

As usual fro Indycar, it seems they are proceeding deliberately and wisely.

[HistoryFan]

I don't think that has something to do with his Formula E programme as there is no way BMW will enter IndyCar.

I just think he sees that with current engine rules, no manufactures are interested in joining the series.

[trickle]

I can't really understand why there is no interest of a third manufacture.

Perhaps nobody is watching the IndyCar series, so manufactures can't use it as a good marketing platform.

[HistoryFan]

I can't also understand why nobody is watching IndyCar...

[Myrvold]

Perhaps nobody is watching the IndyCar series, so manufactures can't use it as a good marketing platform.

Isn't IndyCar one of the few 4-wheeled racing series in the world that are actually gaining viewers these days?

[trickle]

Isn't IndyCar one of the few 4-wheeled racing series in the world that are actually gaining viewers these days?

St. Petersburg (-5% form last year, ~1.1Mio viewers in the US) and Phoenix (-26% form last year, ~0.25 Mio viewers in the US) were down in ratings. Long Beach had +11% form last year with ~0.35Mio viewers. Alabama was postboned due rain to monday(?) so there are no real numbers. These are just bad numbers. Only the Indy 500 really brings the audience back on the tv.

Edited by trickle, 01 May 2018 - 17:11.

[Myrvold]

St. Petersburg (-5% form last year, ~1.1Mio viewers in the US) and Phoenix (-26% form last year, ~0.25 Mio viewers in the US) were down in ratings. Long Beach had +11% form last year with ~0.35Mio viewers. Alabama was postboned due rain to monday(?) so there are no real numbers. These are just bad numbers. Only the Indy 500 really brings the audience back on the tv.

 

That's all US numbers though. I am under the impression that more people are watching now than just for some years ago.

With that being said, I know there are many in my situation, where there are no way to actually watch it in a way that gets picked up on any stats, sorry but it's just not broadcasted where I live, neither is it possible to actually watch it on any streaming site (that gets picked up on the stats)

[jonpollak]

Man in lab coat up there needs to look at more than Nielsen numbers.

Jp

[Loosenut]

It has won back 1 viewer here..

[trickle]

no no no...

 Indycar ist boolsheet.

all zay do is turn left, mit no brakes

ovals is boring.

 

yah.. boolshit ziz indycar.

IndyCar isn't just oval racing

 

 

That's all US numbers though. I am under the impression that more people are watching now than just for some years ago.

With that being said, I know there are many in my situation, where there are no way to actually watch it in a way that gets picked up on any stats, sorry but it's just not broadcasted where I live, neither is it possible to actually watch it on any streaming site (that gets picked up on the stats)

US is the biggest market for this series. And if the total viewers on average unter 1Mio then its not very attractive for new manufacturers or big sponsors.

 

I have no numbers for other countries, but I doubt that its really a big deal in Europe (beside UK perhaps), Asia or Australia. Maybe in South America its got also some attention.

Edited by trickle, 01 May 2018 - 17:40.

[jonpollak]

" NBCSN has seen its average viewership of INDYCAR races increase by 78 percent over the past four years."

 

https://www.indycar....rts-rights-deal.

 

Jp

[Pete_f1]

Will the new TV contract help?

[Muppetmad]

I hope there isn't too radical a change going forward; it's pretty damn awesome as it is now.

[ArrowsLivery]

IndyCar is by far the best open wheel series out there right now. Don’t need to make any change. Keep that hybrid crap in Europe. I would try to get Ford, Merc, Toyota, and maybe Nissan to join but only if they play by our rules.

[juicy sushi]

I think Indycar are taking the smart approach to all of this.  Racing is no longer a huge sport, so things need to be sustainable, and the approach they're taking will be.  I hope the 2021 chassis rules are able to take the classic "Indycar" style that they've re-embraced this year, and take it forward into a future.  The guy who styled the current update had some interesting ideas he's posted online, but I think his idea on the nose is wrong.  In any event, I think they're taking the correct approach, even if it is frustrating for those who want it all.

 

Edit - found Chris Beatty's suggestion:  https://twitter.com/...182459994324992

Edited by juicy sushi, 01 May 2018 - 18:27.

[maximilian]

Beatty's design looks quite nice... would like to see the road course config as well.  Front wing doesn't quite look right, but otherwise not bad at all.

[djparky]

Not surprised Andretti is pushing for hybrids, given his FE program.

As usual fro Indycar, it seems they are proceeding deliberately and wisely.

Well Indy Car proceeding deliberately and wisely is something of a recent occurrence.. from 1995 through 2015 ish Indy Car ( in either series) did pretty much the opposite at every opportunity!! Still it's great to see the series making real progress

[juicy sushi]

Max, I think that is the road course config.  With proper tunnels, you really only need the wings for pitch adjustment.

[king_crud]

I like the sound of the proposals

[Vielleicht]

There is nothing wrong with IndyCar making a decisive choice not to persue hybrids or electrification, and probably even makes sense for them. But the cost of that decision is more than likely to be difficulty in gaining new manufactures or adopting any engine rules that require significant investment. If they can make it work then hats off to them.

Edited by Vielleicht, 01 May 2018 - 21:10.

[Vettelari]

Is Lotus interested in making a comeback?

[maximilian]

 

Beatty's design is quite nice, and I like the "edgy-ness" as well as the well-integrated deflector shield.  Not crazy about the front wing... would prefer that to be more perpendicular to the nose.  Not everything has to be sheared to look cool. 

Edited by maximilian, 02 May 2018 - 14:17.

[Cornholio]

It'd be really fun to see different chassis suppliers involved again, although I'm filing that one under "believe it when I see it" category, in terms of making the costs work and that everyone would migrate to the best available one anyway.

[maximilian]

It'd be really fun to see different chassis suppliers involved again, although I'm filing that one under "believe it when I see it" category, in terms of making the costs work and that everyone would migrate to the best available one anyway.

 

Fun yes, but we'd probably get back to where one chassis turns out to be the dominant one again, and/or costs skyrocketing and the "look" of the cars and the quality of racing again suffering (even the different aerokits on the DW12 did all that), because different aero solutions will take precedence over sheer sexy look.  As much as I'd like to see someone else come in, I am not sure it's the best way forward...

[Pete_f1]

I like the idea of a 1997 style nose.

[maximilian]

http://racer.com/201...n-wheel-future/

 

How about THEM apples?  Turbine car... honestly, it's really time we start thinking beyond the ICE and ridiculous "hybrid" systems, and go for a longer term solution that really makes sense in terms of technology...

 

 

 

“A turbine would last 10-plus seasons before even a major overall [SIC - I guess it's supposed to be "overhaul"] is required,” he said. “Engine costs should be reduced by 70 percent. [And] it’s a much simpler installation in that its air cooled.”

 

Edited by maximilian, 03 May 2018 - 02:04.

[teejay]

KISS principle imho.

 

Keep it simple stupid. 

 

At a time where Nascar viewing is taking a battering, the best thing indycar can do is continue to grow a product with good racing and affordable costs to teams. 

 

A third manufacturer would be great, adds to rivalries etc. 

 

I miss ford/toyota like the old days, but alas, they are the old days. 

[Peat]

It's running on Pirelli's. 

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111111oneoneone

[Kalmake]

Going with turbines would be like shooting themselves in the foot with a hair dryer.

[king_crud]

I like the idea of a 1997 style nose.

Just use 1997 chassis' and be done with it

[B Squared]

Are you wanting the 1997 IRL cars, or the CART version? One sentiment I'd understand...the other, not so much.

[Risil]

Just use 1997 chassis' and be done with it

 

That's what Pacwest said in 1998 and look what happened to them.

[Ali_G]

It never ceases to amaze me why so many spec series go with ugly cars. It’s a spec series. Design the bloody cars to be good looking.

[juicy sushi]

I think the issue is that Indycar can't go retro forever.  And if we're going to seriously have some form of proper head protection (and it looks like we are), it can't be a stop-gap solution pasted on an old idea.  We need something that both respects the past, but takes it into the future.

 

And like Ali G said, it needs to be bloody good looking.  We all recognize that, and it seems like Indycar does too.

[king_crud]

It never ceases to amaze me why so many spec series go with ugly cars. It’s a spec series. Design the bloody cars to be good looking.

Dallara seems to be a common theme

[juicy sushi]

They certainly seem to have a serious problem when being left to their own devices.  When others have had input into the stuff they design, it looks decent, but yeah, on their own... (looking at the difference between the Cadillac DPi and the Dallara LMP2 for another example).

 

On the other hand, the guys at Swift seemed to really know how to match form and function.  Their Atlantic chassis looked great, the Formula Nippon chassis they did was way more beautiful than the Dallara that's come after it, and their Indycar proposal that lost to the Dallara was basically what Indycar has gone back to this year.

[PayasYouRace]

Dallara’s 2003 Indycar also brought in that ugly stepped nose that we had to live with until 2011. The Panoz/G-Force of the time looked a lot nicer.

[Ali_G]

Dallara seems to be a common theme

Here, here. A belief I share. The old car from World Series by Nissan was one of the very few good looking Dallara’s.

[OO7]

 

Beatty's design is quite nice, and I like the "edgy-ness" as well as the well-integrated deflector shield.  Not crazy about the front wing... would prefer that to be more perpendicular to the nose.  Not everything has to be sheared to look cool. 

I wish he'd post pure profile and pure head-on images of his designs though.

[juicy sushi]

Well, I'm sure if someone would pay him to do the work, he would. 

[OO7]

Well, I'm sure if someone would pay him to do the work, he would. 

[juicy sushi]

Mr. Bond, I think he only did the one drawing as sort of an advertisement for his services.  He did a bunch of different perspectives of the new Indycar, but Indycar also paid him to help them with that update.  I think he won't be doing more than that one perspective unless either Indycar or maybe Liberty paid him to.

[sblick]

It is most likely a CAD drawing and all he has to do is switch perspective and voila a new picture.  But maybe it is hand drawn

[OO7]

Mr. Bond, I think he only did the one drawing as sort of an advertisement for his services.  He did a bunch of different perspectives of the new Indycar, but Indycar also paid him to help them with that update.  I think he won't be doing more than that one perspective unless either Indycar or maybe Liberty paid him to.

 

 

It is most likely a CAD drawing and all he has to do is switch perspective and voila a new picture.  But maybe it is hand drawn

Exactly, that was my thinking.

[sblick]

Where do you go with new engines to push technology and make sure it isn't expensive?  Push Charge Combustion on gas engine, how F1 is going?  Do you push efficiencies so manufacturers get something out of it?  Do you go to Cosworth and say give me 900 HP engine and we don't care about technology and go single supplier?  Can get some ugly answers out of that.  

[Atreiu]

http://racer.com/201...n-wheel-future/

 

How about THEM apples?  Turbine car... honestly, it's really time we start thinking beyond the ICE and ridiculous "hybrid" systems, and go for a longer term solution that really makes sense in terms of technology...

 

 

 

 

They could have that car run on donuts and I'd still like it.

 

Sexy beast. 

 

edit: disclaimer, I dont really care about turbines though. Not even enough to know how they work. I just hope this design would be possible with a more conventional engine.

Edited by Atreiu, 03 May 2018 - 15:29.

[Ali_G]

http://racer.com/201...n-wheel-future/

How about THEM apples? Turbine car... honestly, it's really time we start thinking beyond the ICE and ridiculous "hybrid" systems, and go for a longer term solution that really makes sense in terms of technology...

EDIT.





Very nice. Why don’t any series go for this kind of radical design. It wouldn’t cost anymore than a plain design.

If I was the glick I’d be building cars like those.

Edited by Ali_G, 03 May 2018 - 17:01.