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John Goss on Queen's Honours List


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#1 TerryS

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 07:03

Aussie John Goss has been named in the Queen's Birthday Honours List as the recipient of a Medal of the Order of Australia.

He has been cited for "his services to motor sports".

His main claim to fame is winning the Bathurst 1000 in 1974 and 1985 and the Australian Grand Prix in 1976. He is the only driver to have achieved this double.
It will probably never be repeated now that the AGP is part of the World Championship.

So he had a great career in F5000 open wheelers and big touring cars.

It is strange that this award is 30 years after his last Bathurst win. They do seem take some time to catch up. Maybe the Royals have been busy with weddings.
I note also on this year's list were Dawn Fraser who was a swimmer at the 1956 and 1960 Olympic Games, and Neil Harvey an international cricketer who was in his peak in the 1950's.

For those who can't remember John Goss here is a great article on him including some marvellous photos:

https://primotipo.co...nd-prix-winner/

Amongst his achievements on the official citation list are two I am not sure of:

- "Winner, NSW Sports Car Championship, including Bathurst Easter Sports Car Trophy Race, Tornado Ford, 1966-68

- "Senior Engine Fitter and Test Mechanic, FIA F1 engines, Brabham and Rindt, sports car engines Matich, Repco Brabham Engines, Victoria, 1969"

To help my poor old brain I would greatly appreciate any views on these two points.

Edited by TerryS, 12 June 2018 - 07:04.


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#2 ensign14

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 07:22

I didn't know the Aussies still had honours promulgated in Her Majesty's honours list.  I thought they were meant to be a nasty reminder of subservience to colonialism, even though nobody's rushing to give the Aborigines their land back.



#3 Glengavel

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 08:26

I thought they were lobbed the odd batch of gongs to keep them onside and prevent descent into a Republican rabble. Hence Jack Brabham's knighthood (not that he didn't deserve it, but racing drivers tended to be grudgingly rewarded at that time).



#4 2F-001

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 08:34

I didn't know the Aussies still had honours promulgated in Her Majesty's honours list.  I thought they were meant to be a nasty reminder of subservience to colonialism...

Well, I think they've just had a long weekend "Bank Holiday" to mark the Queen's birthday... which is more 'Royal' than we do in the UK.

#5 king_crud

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 08:34

I thought they were lobbed the odd batch of gongs to keep them onside and prevent descent into a Republican rabble. Hence Jack Brabham's knighthood (not that he didn't deserve it, but racing drivers tended to be grudgingly rewarded at that time).


Knighthoods existed up to a point for Australians,I think around 1990 they were scrapped. Sir Jack received his before this time.

After that it was Order Of Australia,I didn't realise this was still approved by the queen

#6 Vitesse2

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 08:40

The Order of Australia has been in existence since 1975, established under Royal Letters Patent.

 

Knighthoods existed up to a point for Australians,I think around 1990 they were scrapped. Sir Jack received his before this time.

After that it was Order Of Australia,I didn't realise this was still approved by the queen

Knighthoods were briefly revived under Abbott - but have now been scrapped again.

 

But let's not get into Aussie politics, eh?  ;) Paddock Club territory.



#7 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 22:17

Originally posted by TerryS
.....Among his achievements on the official citation list are two I am not sure of:

- "Winner, NSW Sports Car Championship, including Bathurst Easter Sports Car Trophy Race, Tornado Ford, 1966-68

- "Senior Engine Fitter and Test Mechanic, FIA F1 engines, Brabham and Rindt, sports car engines Matich, Repco Brabham Engines, Victoria, 1969"

To help my poor old brain I would greatly appreciate any views on these two points.


Even Gossy must have winced at this stuff...

The '1966-68' period would have referred to the construction period of the Tornado Ford. It raced in Tasmania for a year or two and then came to "The Mainland".

He only raced it at Bathurst once and achieved no placings. He raced it at Catalina once and won two races, but neither were a NSW SCC event.

Helping him with the construction in Tassie was Tony Williams, I know Tony worked at Repco-Brabham Engines but I don't know if Gossy did.

I can see the story built by association, but it's at best said to be 'fanciful'.

#8 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 23:52

What is needed here now is that speccy pic of him crossed up in an XY at Amaroo Pk. Or the  Aunger add with all the girls and the XA. And a pic of the Tornado which is still around.

And ofcourse the Joan Goose special Falcon Coupes of the mid 70s. 


Edited by Lee Nicolle, 13 June 2018 - 00:06.


#9 TerryS

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 00:02

What is needed here now is that speccy pic of him crossed up in an XY at Amaroo Pk. Or the  Aunger add with all the girls and the XA. And a pic of the Tornado which is still around.


Lee. Have a look at the Primotipo article I mentioned in the first post.

I think you will find there all the photos there that you mentioned

#10 TerryS

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 00:21

Even Gossy must have winced at this stuff...

The '1966-68' period would have referred to the construction period of the Tornado Ford. It raced in Tasmania for a year or two and then came to "The Mainland".

He only raced it at Bathurst once and achieved no placings. He raced it at Catalina once and won two races, but neither were a NSW SCC event.

Helping him with the construction in Tassie was Tony Williams, I know Tony worked at Repco-Brabham Engines but I don't know if Gossy did.

I can see the story built by association, but it's at best said to be 'fanciful'.


Ray thanks for bringing the thread back on topic after the Poms had their "fun".

In relation to the Tornado sports the last line of the citation states:

"Designed and constructed the Tornado Ford 2.8l sorts prototype, 1964 - 1966"

For the full citation see here. Scroll down to Goss:
https://www.gg.gov.a...OAM (F - L).pdf

#11 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 02:03

Gossy was still racing the Customline in '66, IIRC...

The first appearance of the Tornado seems to have been at Baskerville in February, 1968.

#12 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 07:27

Just as a matter of interest. The Tornado had Webers on it and never ran any good in Ray Rowlands hands. 90s? What did it have in Gossys days? From what I have been told it was a very good thing in the day,, except for the fragile VeeDub transaxle.

I have seen the car a lot of times but never going very fast.

Ford 170 was a hard way of doing things, a lot easier with a red Holden. There is a smattering of such cars around, the Tornado probably with the best history early on.

It seems John was a Ford tragic.

The Boss 302 in the 5000 as well. Though actually that should have been very strong. Moffats Mustang was never short of grunt.

Chevs though even then were cheaper, as was the Repco.


Edited by Lee Nicolle, 13 June 2018 - 07:30.


#13 KBY191

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 09:34

John Goss was at Muscle car Masters last weekend in probably the worlds loudest Falcon hardtop.

 

https://www.australi...-dep-taken.html



#14 ellrosso

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 10:36

Having seen the car race at Baskerville in 1967 I can vouch that it raced before 1968. Pics from 1967 Tas Sports Car Championship are attached plus another Syms 1967 meeting with Jim Barrett (Rod's dad - ex Ford). David Keep (who took the photos) was a mate of Goss and did help with the build of the Tornado. The Autosportsman article on the car (March '69) has Goss saying the build started in mid 1966. The Bask 1966 shot , sans bodywork, was from late 1966, most probably the Dec meeting judging by the t-shirt Goss is wearing. The article doesn't mention when it received the 40mm Webers but Goss mentions the car is probably under carburated. He fabricated the extractors. He mentions the car started with a VW 36hp casing but had constant problems with casing distortion and lost final drives, so they changed to a 40hp with Elfin c/r gearset. Cortina universals are mated to drastically shortened Customline driveshafts. The Tony Hamilton Turnham VW (built by Peter Turnbull) and the Vic Butler Bunyip Ford (also Falcon engined) were built using the same mould as the Tornado. Bob Wright also used it for his Tasma sports car. Bit like Harold Atherton's Lotus which provided the body for Brian Bowe's HEA special (onto Derek Holden) and Kerry Cox's Paramount Jaguar.https://s15.postimg...._Goss-67-lo.jpg819-_K-_Goss-67-lo.jpg3512-_K-_Goss-67-lo.jpg3509-_K-_Spor-67-lo.jpg1372-_H-_Spl-69-lo.jpg1333-_H-_Butl-69-lo.jpg



#15 ellrosso

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 11:48

This shot of the Tornado's first outing was taken in 1966 as Geoff Harrisson was meticulous with his filing and dates etc. The other shot is from Fred Cherry's collection and I've no idea whether the Falcon is connected to Goss or not - maybe Ellis French might have an idea. Could be Alan Ling in the FC and maybe John Pooley in the Mini?997-_H-_Goss-66-lo.jpg6309_K_Falc_64-lo.jpg



#16 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 11:58

Thanks for the additional information, Lindsay...

That shot ahead of Barrett shows the car before he fitted the Lotus wheels purchased from John Roxburgh. And before the stud pattern was changed to the Lotus 6-stud arrangement.

Still using a Herald rack and pinion while he used the Hillman Super Minx uprights was the reason the car was built left hand drive. And it looks to me like the front wheels are Super Minx ones which have been widened, which is not nearly as surprising as seeing the VW-based wheels at the rear. Surely this means it had swing axles at this stage?

Anyway, it's very different there to when I drove it.

#17 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 23:27

John Goss was at Muscle car Masters last weekend in probably the worlds loudest Falcon hardtop.

 

https://www.australi...-dep-taken.html

Engine is much the same as I use in my XE IP car.

I presume this is the same replica car that John has presented before painted up differently and has became an XB?



#18 Ray Bell

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 00:53

I just got the '66 Baskerville chassis shot through...

What has he done to those front hubs? He must have had the VW-based wheels (or are they pre-war Ford?) on hand to go to that much trouble.

Clearly there was a lot of changes made to the car over the years.

#19 GMACKIE

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 02:19

Not much trouble, it's a VW front beam...



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#20 Ray Bell

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 02:46

So it is...

It still had a long way to go then. And that's one of those strange disc conversions, I guess.

#21 GMACKIE

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 05:11

Maico, and - compared to modern discs - quite strange. They did work though.


Edited by GMACKIE, 14 June 2018 - 06:04.


#22 ellrosso

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 09:14

Here is Autosportsman article. Hopefully will answer any queries.Tornado1-lo.jpgTornado2-lo.jpgTornado3-lo.jpg



#23 Wirra

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 09:49

A couple of schoolboy Instamatic shots:

 

IMG_0040_c.jpg

 

IMG_0202_b.jpg



#24 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 12:39

Here is Autosportsman article. Hopefully will answer any queries.Tornado1-lo.jpgTornado2-lo.jpgTornado3-lo.jpg

Interesting article. When cars were fabricated with what came to hand. Especially since it was 50 years ago



#25 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 12:44

A couple of schoolboy Instamatic shots:

 

IMG_0040_c.jpg

 

IMG_0202_b.jpg

There is a few pics of that car with the tyres alight! But do you notice,, it does not have the GT 12 slot rims but standard Falcon 6" rims. Gossy was cheating as they are a good deal lighter and surprisingly dont seem to crack either like the 12 slots do.

It is a wonder that the scrutineers allowed the speedway style numbers,,, with no backgrounds. And the signs too are to close to the numbers.



#26 Librules

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 17:51

Engine is much the same as I use in my XE IP car.

I presume this is the same replica car that John has presented before painted up differently and has became an XB?

A different car I think, Lee.    The car mentioned here belongs to a collector and JG assisted in producing a car with the specs he would have liked to have run way back then.   To the best of my knowledge John still owns his own replica of the '74 Bathurst winning Falcon.



#27 ellrosso

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 05:02

One of my favourite Goss shots - taken by Peter Schell. 6548_T_Goss_72.jpg



#28 TerryS

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 05:54

One of my favourite Goss shots - taken by Peter Schell. 6548_T_Goss_72.jpg


Yes Lindsay, a great shot.

I also like the shot of him spinning the Tornado under the Longford viaduct. Perhaps you could put that up also.

#29 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 06:33

There does seem to be quite a few pics of that car crossed up with the tyres alight.

I have one in a magazine of John doing that in front of the field over the hill at Amaroo.

And since PostImage wont work for me any more I cannot put it up. Mag is very daggy anyway!



#30 ellrosso

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 08:35

Here is the Viaduct shot plus one of him giving Chris Amon something to think about in the P4 Ferrari. Also I've put in one of John's younger brother Paul in an early Cooper - not sure if I've told this story before, but Paul was a top speedway driver at Richmond when it first

started in 1968. CAMS licence holders could not compete at the speedway back then because they were not affiliated but I can recall John having a go in Paul's FJ at one meeting. Did pretty well too as you would expect and a bit of921-_H-_Goss-68-lo.jpg627_K_Goss_68-lo.jpg1473-_H-_Coop-69-lo.jpg sliding on dirt was not beyond him!



#31 TerryS

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 08:45

Here is the Viaduct shot plus one of him giving Chris Amon something to think about in the P4 Ferrari. Also I've put in one of John's younger brother Paul in an early Cooper - not sure if I've told this story before, but Paul was a top speedway driver at Richmond when it first
started in 1968. CAMS licence holders could not compete at the speedway back then because they were not affiliated but I can recall John having a go in Paul's FJ at one meeting. Did pretty well too as you would expect and a bit of921-_H-_Goss-68-lo.jpg627_K_Goss_68-lo.jpg1473-_H-_Coop-69-lo.jpg sliding on dirt was not beyond him!


Thanks Lindsay, those two sports car photos sure are “atmospheric”.

#32 Ray Bell

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 09:18

Peugeot front wheels on the open-wheeler...

Plenty of variety.

#33 MarkBisset

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 12:58

Wow, thanks all, what a wonderful few days of posts. Fascinating photos Lindsay, intrigued to know the history of the Cooper, Autosportsman article a beauty, I wonder who wrote it? JG's hands-on engineering skills pretty impressive, I love the improvisation- it may look a bit rough but it was obviously effective.