101 replies to this topic

[Borko]

After the recent "How good was Raikkonen in McLaren" thread, where a lot of posts were about Montoya, it gave the idea to open a thread about his F1 career (with Risil's permission).

 

Montoya was definitely very fast. He had a great resume before he became a Williams driver. He impressed everybody in what was just the third race of his career in Brazil, 2001. It's a massive shame he didn't win that race. Then he became known as somebody "who isn't affraid" of Michael Schumacher. While the overtaking move in Brazil 2001 was awesome, what he did in Austria was just silly. He had all the tools to win the 2003 WDC, except for one thing - right mindset. Remember that stupid mistake in Australia when he threw away a 100% certain victory? Or at the crucial race of the season, 2003 United States GP, when he hit Barrichello on lap 3? What the hell was he thinking? Then at McLaren, he injured himself while playing tennis or driving a motorcycle, whatever, he was still wearing a shoulder protection in Brazil, 6 months after the incident. Who knows, maybe his career would have been different if it wasn't for that self-inflicted injury, but is unlikey though, considering his past "habits" on the track. Incidents with backmarkers, crashing out of nowhere, not so good relationship with both teams he drove for...

 

Is he actually the most wasted talent of 21st century?

[ensign14]

The most wasted talent of the 21st century is the near-rookie who won the European F3 title, beating an experienced Nico Rosberg, an experienced Robert Kubica, and a rookie Lewis Hamilton.  Jamie Green. 

 

Montoya was a bit like Peterson.  Too free for the stifling atmosphere of F1 where F1 is everything.  Had he the dedication of a Schumacher he would have been a champion.  Even with all the other incidents. 

 

And even with all that he would have won the 2003 title had the FIA not continually stitched him and Williams up. 

[OO7]

Paging P123!  Paging P123!

[PayasYouRace]

He always struck me as the Mansell of his time, guts and determination, making him very exciting to watch. The grid was definitely missing something when he went away. Easily one of my favourite drivers of all time.

I don’t agree with you about 2003. I think he should have been champion that year and his car breaking down in Austria and Japan, while leading, did more damage to his challenge than his driving.

I don’t think he fitted in well at McLaren. The injury in early 2005 was neither here nor there. You can’t wrap drivers in cotton wool between races. He shouldn’t take any blame for that. He still took 3 wins that year. He wasn’t even doing that badly in 2006, but clearly the way McLaren works didn’t suit him. Had he stayed on as Alonso’s teammate in 2007 it would have been very exciting, and who knows how that would have affected Lewis Hamilton’s career?

Where else would he have gone after McLaren? Red Bull maybe? He could have got in early and reaped the rewards when 2009 came around, but he may have just been an alternative Webber to Vettel.

His talent was wasted in NASCAR. He should have done a Bourdais and built a relationship with a decent Indycar team, and could have had a lot of success there. By the time he returned in 2014 he’d lost his best years.

[Loosenut]

I thought hos talent was a bit wasted, yes. I also watched him in Indycar when he took over from Zanardi. It as as if Zanardi just handed over all his secrets. Quite often, they didn't see which way he went! And his overtaking moves were audacious and brave to the point of crazy at times, but he pulled them off (see game of chicken with M Andretti at the snake chicanes in Surfers Paradise).

He was very fast and exciing, the Williams suited him better than McLaren I thought. He didn't really seem happy at McLaren. He usually brought a lot of his family around with him as South Americans do, I remember he complained that it was a problem at McLaren. Not sure how that should really affect his driving tho. Binning it in quali at Hockenheim, when he was well up on Kimi looked like it was a turning point for him, toward the exit.

Shame, because I was a big fan, he brought a lot of colour and excitement to F1. A little too obsessed with trying to prove himself against Michael maybe?
I think if a team like Redbull would have been around then, he really would have thrived.

[AlexPrime]

Yes, I agree, a great talent, I think he achieved much, winning Indy 500 and Monaco GP, but could and should have won more. Still, he was fearless and I think he still drives endurance racing in IMSA, so maybe he can win something big before he retires for good. But F1 is very demanding and sadly talent is not enough.

[Loosenut]

Also, someone from McLaren mentioned on a grid interview as recently as a couple of years ago, that the team still uses some method that Montoya introduced to set up the car. Whatever that was, I have no idea.

[Diablobb81]

Yes

[Slowersofterdumber]

Big natural talent. As fast as anyone but way too hot headed and mistake prone to have good full seasons. Only had one shot at the title and he had a solid but not good enough season, too many mistakes. Never fitted at McLaren but still managed to show random flashes of speed, way less often than before anyway.

[Loosenut]

Yes

Mika?

[Boing 2]

He was the last driver I followed with a passion and the only driver that really put the willies up Schumacher, in fact I recall a press conference where MS made a point of congratulating himself for passing Montoya, something I can't remember him ever doing with another driver.

 

I really thought he was a perfect fit at Williams and the fact that he was at my favourite team with my favourite car company building the engines felt like it was destined to succeed.

 

Devastatingly exciting to watch, without Ferrari and the FIA buggering about with Michelin at the end of 03 I reckon he could have taken it.  I was heartbroken to see him go but he would never have survived F1's cheese tyre period, driving to a delta was never his thing.

Edited by Boing 2, 05 July 2018 - 10:31.

[sopa]

Personally I think Montoya got a bit overrated in F1 due to his 'exciting' style. When JPM entered F1, everyone was looking for the next rival to M.Schumacher. And once Montoya raced wheel-to-wheel against him, already in Brazil 2001 as mentioned, the hype of the new battle got overboard - new Prost vs Senna, and all that.

 

But in the end Montoya only marginally bettered than R.Schumacher, and then got beaten by Raikkonen.

 

Still he was a very good and talented driver in his prime. But his prime period was short for whatever reason. And he got tired of F1 politics - both in general and inside teams. I remember there was a weird rumour that Montoya left Williams, because Frank called him fat?    Have never understood, whether there was any truth to it.

 

I agree with the claim above that Montoya would have been a great fit in IndyCar racing in late-00's and early-10's. JPM wanted to do NASCAR instead, where it was far harder for him to succeed, but if that's what he wanted to do, who can blame him.

Edited by sopa, 05 July 2018 - 10:48.

[P123]

Paging P123!  Paging P123!

Received.

No, he's not a wasted talent. He has a CV most racing drivers would love to have.

Did F1 see the best of him? Sometimes. With a bit of luck and reliability, he'd have a few more wins than he ended up with too and likely a WDC. JPM was never a cruise and collect sort- it's what made him so entertaining. The anti-DRS.

With regards 2003, he did spin away a handful of points in Oz and Canada, but that was nothing to those lost in Austria or Suzuka, or being mounted by Pizonnia in Malaysia, or from the dubious penalty at Indy. I don't think you can hold Brazil against him (which had a nice move around the outside of DC up on the kerb at the exit of T3) as half the grid went off on the river running across the track- it was pure chance.

He was unlucky with the injury at the start of his McLaren career, as he spent most of the season nursing that injury, and also missed out on McLaren's first big development push of the season at the 2005 San Marino GP. He liked a completely different setup to Kimi, which I always got the impression the team resented him for (well, Whitmarsh mentioned it enough, as if it was an inconvenience). Funnily enough, subsequent seasons have suggested that maybe Kimi was the one with quirky preferences..! But those missed races had him on the backfoot. The team screwed him over in Canada, but 2005 was a bit of a mess in addition to the injury- poor reliability, some errors (German quali) and some rotten luck, such as Pizzonia dive bombing him on slicks at a damp Spa, the drain cover in China, or JV shoving him off track in Suzuka as JV recovered from jumping the chicane...

I don't think he ever fitted in at McLaren. He had no allies within the team. Even DC had Haug fighting his corner. I think JPM was glad to be out of there. He was too much of a rough diamond, too outspoken for the F1 paddock, who largely were looking for a driver matching the Schumacher template. I wasn't too disappointed when JPM left, as he wasn't driving with any fire in his belly. His McLaren time had greyed him out. He stayed too long in NASCAR, but then again, US single seaters were a bit of a shambles so not at that time an reasonable alternative.

[Radion]

You know the BMW Williams of 2003 was a beast if even Ralf Schumacher could win back to back races. 

[phrank]

Still one of the biggest disgraces in F1 is the penalty that prevented Monoya to become World Champion in the Williams BMW. This hurt F1 in so many ways.

[IceSpeed]

Followed Montoya in Indy car after Zanardi and was super excited to watch him in F1 2001. What a move on Michael and should have won that race if it wasn't for a back marker I believe (Verstappen senior? I think) - anyway a huge fan but agree with all the comments here. Not sure if he had what I took for a word championship in F1. Didn't fit the mod at the time, a lot of mistakes and didn't have any outside help whether it be team bosses or the FIA. He did leave at the right time coz it seemed like everything was going downhill for him but definitely miss his driving.

Would loved to have seen him against a max or Lewis (earlier in his Lewis' career obviously - now he would probably just get out of the way "oh Deer"!)

Edited by IceSpeed, 05 July 2018 - 11:04.

[sopa]

Still one of the biggest disgraces in F1 is the penalty that prevented Monoya to become World Champion in the Williams BMW. This hurt F1 in so many ways.

 

IIRC Montoya wasn't particularly impressive in that US Grand Prix anyway in wet conditions. He went off the track a couple of times. Without penalty maybe he would have been a position or two higher, but that's all.

[P123]

You know the BMW Williams of 2003 was a beast if even Ralf Schumacher could win back to back races.

I think perception of Ralf is coloured by him not being Michael, by generally being a grumpy sod, and his late seasons for Toyota where he was just turning up to collect a hefty paycheque.

[P123]

IIRC Montoya wasn't particularly impressive in that US Grand Prix anyway in wet conditions. He went off the track a couple of times. Without penalty maybe he would have been a position or two higher, but that's all.

He was running in second.... the penalty meant he had to do his drive through whilst everybody else was in pitting for wets, so he then had to plod around on dry tyres and then do his pitstop the following lap. It put him down a lap.

[Spillage]

Hmm. I think he was an interesting driver. He was very unlucky in 2003, but his reputation was damaged quite a lot by his performances next to Raikkonen at Mclaren. Maybe 'better than Ralf, worse than Kimi' is all he ever was, maybe he just lacked the application - I know it's a bit of a meme to sneer at his weight, but was he ever really as fit as he could have been? Was he a bit too headstrong to succeed? At Mclaren, at least, that seems quite likely.

 

So I don't really know how best to sum up his career. You can't deny someone who can win the Monaco GP and also two Indy 500s, fifteen years apart. He was robbed of the Indycar title by the weird points system in 2015 as well. But I get the sense that he was one of the best drivers in an era of F1 not blessed with many great drivers. If he'd burst on the scene in 1991 or 2011, rather than 2001, I don't think he'd have looked nearly as good.

Edited by Spillage, 05 July 2018 - 11:29.

[Radoye]

Loads of talent, on his day very fast maybe the fastest out there (and that's going against the likes of Michael Schumacher at their prime), but lacking the discipline for F1 which hampered his career and prevented him to fulfill his potential. His character is much better suited for the more relaxed atmosphere on the North American racing scene than the uptighty corporate F1 world.

[Sterzo]

Remember Montoya appearing fast but erratic in Formula Vauxhall and then British F3. Was sceptical when he went into F1, then astonished by his sheer talent, excited by some of his performances, and frustrated by his lack of consistency.

 

Either Motor Sport or Autosport said Patrick Head was maddened by the Montoya/Ralph pairing, because at each meeting one of them would prove the car was a flier, while the other would underperform.  You never knew who would do which.

 

He just didn't have the intense commitment needed to succeed in F1. Perhaps the insouciant manner hid over-sensitivity. Basically he left first Williams and then McLaren because they were unpleasant to him.

 

Not a wasted talent, but an entertaining and exciting character who achieved plenty, but who was never going to be one of the all time top-liners.

[PlatenGlass]

I do wonder if Montoya was slightly overrated in F1 terms. He came with a reputation from America, and was clearly a flamboyant racer, but when it came down to it, he wasn't really convincingly better than Ralf Schumacher, and they were both very inconsistent, seemingly taking it in turns in having good and bad races.

In 2002, he got those 5 poles in a row and people were raving about him, but when he wasn't on pole, Ralf normally outqualified him. And then he just wasn't as good as Raikkonen at McLaren.

This may sound harsh, and I did want him to do better, but I do think people's romantic ideas of him and reality are not the same.

[sopa]

In 2002, he got those 5 poles in a row and people were raving about him, but when he wasn't on pole, Ralf normally outqualified him. And then he just wasn't as good as Raikkonen at McLaren.

 

Interesting to remember, but these 5 poles meant Montoya was rated as the best qualifier in the field during that time.

 

Also in 2002 Montoya was often rated as maybe even a match to M.Schumacher (or at least very close), and also he was rated at least as highly as Raikkonen, if not higher. It was only in the seasons afterwards, but especially since 2005, that Raikkonen's reputation went decisively higher.

 

Then again I guess it's normal that over time perceptions change. Alesi was rated as the next best thing in the Tyrrell, a future star to take over the mantle of Senna and Prost.

[maverick69]

I think he loved a burger too much for Rons liking. Then again - Kimi was no saint when he was on the pop.

But that was Monty..... So I'd say he left some on the table. But what driver hasn't? (Apart from Jim Clark).

[CoolBreeze]

I personally think he was overrated. He's was lucky to be in top teams during his short stint in F1, so the wins and the poles weren't really out of reach.

[sopa]

 He's was lucky to be in top teams during his short stint in F1,

 

WCC positions of the teams he drove for: 3 - 2 - 2 - 4 - 2 - 3.

 

So yeah, unlike most drivers he didn't enter in a midfield team to prove himself, but got a "top driver reputation" from the States. I remember Williams was even prepared to loan out Button to Renault just to get Montoya. He was that highly rated.

 

Of course, that's not really different to how Villeneuve entered F1, also with top-notch reputation from the States. Back then top IndyCar/CART drivers were rated highly. Though Montoya had already previously made his mark in Europe with F3000 victory.

 

I remember there were rumours Red Bull had offered a contract to Montoya for 2007. But I guess he rejected, because -

1. he had truly got tired of F1 and its politics,
2. he didn't want to drive for a midfield team (which RBR was at the time) after having enjoyed the luxury of a top team drive all his career.

[HP]

Most wasted talent of the 21st century? Don't think so. Working with Head and later with Dennis however, was what probably was most difficult for him. So wasted at Williams and McLaren. Then he didn't want to go to Ferrari. Too bad, F1 lost an exciting albeit controversial driver. He certainly could have won a championship and most deservedly so. But in F1 talent alone is not everything that is required. Just ask Alonso.

[WilliamIV]

He was exciting and probably born in the wrong era, he has an onboard from Cart that rivals Senna's Monaco qualy:

 

 

It would be interesting to see him in the other McLaren during the Senna years for a mano-e-mano nuclear war between them, with less of the PR rubbish of modern times.

 

But he just didn't have the mindset of a Michael Schumacher to dedicate himself to excellence. He is of the Ronnie o' Sullivan, Nick Kyrgios or Paul Gascoigne mode of sportsman who loves the fun and flairy part of competition, whereas the Hendrys, Federers and Schumachers have a dedication and mental discipline towards all the 'boring' parts of the sport to ensure their performances are the utmost extraction of their full potential. This means Montoya wasn't good enough to be top level in F1, at least in the modern era. The '70s-'80s, who knows.

 

He was the last driver I followed with a passion and the only driver that really put the willies up Schumacher, in fact I recall a press conference where MS made a point of congratulating himself for passing Montoya, something I can't remember him ever doing with another driver.

 

I really thought he was a perfect fit at Williams and the fact that he was at my favourite team with my favourite car company building the engines felt like it was destined to succeed.

 

Devastatingly exciting to watch, without Ferrari and the FIA buggering about with Michelin at the end of 03 I reckon he could have taken it.  I was heartbroken to see him go but he would never have survived F1's cheese tyre period, driving to a delta was never his thing.

 

That's an interesting fact and I agree. I wonder if Montoya and Maldonado swapped eras with each other, if we'd have noticed any difference?

 

[P123]

I think he loved a burger too much for Rons liking. Then again - Kimi was no saint when he was on the pop.

But that was Monty..... So I'd say he left some on the table. But what driver hasn't? (Apart from Jim Clark).

Make your mind up!

[P123]

WCC positions of the teams he drove for: 3 - 2 - 2 - 4 - 2 - 3.
 
So yeah, unlike most drivers he didn't enter in a midfield team to prove himself, but got a "top driver reputation" from the States. I remember Williams was even prepared to loan out Button to Renault just to get Montoya. He was that highly rated.
 
Of course, that's not really different to how Villeneuve entered F1, also with top-notch reputation from the States. Back then top IndyCar/CART drivers were rated highly. Though Montoya had already previously made his mark in Europe with F3000 victory.
 
I remember there were rumours Red Bull had offered a contract to Montoya for 2007. But I guess he rejected, because -

• 
  
• he had truly got tired of F1 and its politics,
• he didn't want to drive for a midfield team (which RBR was at the time) after having enjoyed the luxury of a top team drive all his career.

Williams signed him off the back of his F3000 performances, and loaned him out to Ganassi. The "coming from the US" was often used as a snobbish sneer against him.

[Eff1]

Montoya fulfilled his potential. I think what we saw was pretty much the maximum. As entertaining as he was, he was too preoccupied (obsessed?) with Schumacher M than he was on bettering himself. Actually, he probably should have paid more attention to beating his team-mate Ralf Schumacher consistently.....Ralf was the less spectacular of the two but delivered around the same results. And pretty much nobody rated Ralf (which was unfair IMO).

[Kucki]

https://youtu.be/sZQZ6MjtGPQ

[r4mses]

JPM was pretty much what Max VER is today - just way more entertaining off-track.

[Borko]

About his McLaren days - I think Ron really disliked him - after his 3 wins, the most ITV guys got from him was "A great drive from Juan Pablo" and the next sentence was always about how great Raikkonen's race was. He never went to collect trophy on the podium when Montoya won - Newey was on the podium when Montoya won British GP, Whitmarsh in Monza, Haug in Brazil. But every time that Kimi won thr race, Ron was on the podium with him (except in Belgium, where for some reason no McLaren representative showed up, so Raikkonen had to take both trophies).

[messy]

JPM has had a fantastic career. I don't think he wasted anything. He drove for two of the (at the time!) best teams in the sport, he won for both of them, he was instantly competitive as a rookie, he stood up well his his team-mates, he came close to a proper title tilt in 2003 and was unlucky not to win it in all honesty. Even in his McLaren year(s) he had good results and sometimes outperformed a peak form Kimi. I don't buy that him and Ralf held Williams from fulfilling their potential at all. Both of them, circa 2001-04 were at the peak of their powers. They worked quite well together, they represented a far more balanced partnership than Schumi-Barrichello or Raikkonen-Coulthard. They had very different strengths and weaknesses so often on the days Ralf struggled a bit JPM was right on it and vice versa. Any grumbling from Patrick Head and co in hindsight is just making excuses.

Out of F1 he's probably the most exciting Indycar/CART driver I've ever seen, ahead even of Zanardi and Moore. The way he just jumped straight into the car in 1999 and started winning was amazing. CART at that time was again, right at its peak and full of talent. The circuits do varied, the skillset required so different from his F3000 background. And he just turned up and kicked arse, made a very classy driver in Jimmy Vasser look completely average. It was astonishing really. Vasser was a great Indycar driver. He was before JPM rocked up, he went back to being very strong again in 2000 and beyond (and actually much closer to Montoya in year two), but in 99 Montoya came in and destroyed him.

Then obviously going off and winning NASCAR races, returning to Indycar and coming close to the title in year two....I wish he was still there. People comment on his fitness but he's strong as a bull. He wouldn't have been winning Indycar races in his 40s otherwise.

Thinking of his F1 career, bottom line for me is that he was unfortunate enough to come into the sport at the start of the Schumacher dominance years, he wasn't in F1 for that many years and in those years he did as much as anyone else (arguably bar Alonso, fine) to take the fight to the Schumi-Ferrari juggernaut.

Also to say Juan Pablo Montoya vs Gonzalo Rodriguez in F3000 was great.

Edited by messy, 05 July 2018 - 18:49.

[FNG]

Still remember the move he put on MS into the bus stop chicane. Was fantastic.

 

Loved Montoya and he gets a bad wrap for his F1 career. Most people could only dream of what he did in F1. The 2003 US GP penalty was a travesty.

 

Let's not forget that he is also the only active driver with a shot at the triple crown. How many times has he won the Indy 500? At least two that I know of. The man was a beast. I think the fact that he "came from America" route, get the F1 snobs in a tissy.

 

I will tell you one thing, Montoya was more talented and a far better race car driver than JV, he just had some bad luck. Some his own doing and some not his own doing. He could have easily been a WDC

 

if I had one complaint about JPM. I don't think he was fully dedicated to F1. relied totally on natural talent and didn't work on the fitness discipline.

 

F1 was far less without him. Love him or hate him, how could you not want JPM in F1?!?!?!?

[Nonesuch]

Let's not forget that he is also the only active driver with a shot at the triple crown.

 

How so? Perhaps that should read 'only other active driver', but:

 

Montoya has won the Indy 500, but not Le Mans and not the F1 World Championship, though he did win the Monaco GP. Which makes him either 1/3 or 2/3.

 

Alonso has won Le Mans, won the F1 World Championship, won the Monaco GP, and has also participated in an Indy 500. Also 2/3 and 2/3.

 

It's a real shame Montoya never followed up that Porsche LMP1 test with a proper drive. That would have been cool.

[Ramon69]

Overrated, hotheaded and a bit flattered by a weak team mate (Ralf) and a car with a very powerful engine (Williams-BMW). He was better than the likes of Coulthard & Fisichella for example, but not on the level of Schumacher or Alonso.

 

PS: I'm strictly talking about him as an F1 drivers, don't care to discuss other categories.

Edited by Ramon69, 05 July 2018 - 18:55.

[Lights]

I don't understand the move to McLaren, it was like fire and ice.

 

For the rest he's been lucky to drive a fast car all the years he's been in F1. Who else can say that?

[FNG]

How so? Perhaps that should read 'only other active driver', but:

 

Montoya has won the Indy 500, but not Le Mans and not the F1 World Championship, though he did win the Monaco GP. Which makes him either 1/3 or 2/3.

 

Alonso has won Le Mans, won the F1 World Championship, won the Monaco GP, and has also participated in an Indy 500. Also 2/3 and 2/3.

 

It's a real shame Montoya never followed up that Porsche LMP1 test with a proper drive. That would have been cool.

 

Yes I meant the only OTHER driver aside from Alonso. Triple crown has nothing to do with the F1 WDC. It's Monaco, 500 and LeMans

 

I may get ridiculed for this remark but Alonso has it harder if they both want to complete it. It's easier to win LeMans if you have the right team than it is to win the 500 with the right team. No slag on Alonso's win, love the guy, wasn't referring to that.

Edited by FNG, 05 July 2018 - 19:02.

[FNG]

Overrated, hotheaded and a bit flattered by a weak team mate (Ralf) and a car with a very powerful engine (Williams-BMW). He was better than the likes of Coulthard & Fisichella for example, but not on the level of Schumacher or Alonso.

 

PS: I'm strictly talking about him as an F1 drivers, don't care to discuss other categories.

 

Overrated? Complete and utter bullshit.

CART Champ

2x Indy 500 winner

Nascar winner

multiple race winner in F1 within a sniff of the WDC. I get you don't like the guy but overrated is laughable

 

 

EDIT: missed the bit about other categories....

Edited by FNG, 05 July 2018 - 18:59.

[Collombin]

Yes I meant the only OTHER driver aside from Alonso. Triple crown has nothing to do with the F1 WDC. It's Monaco, 500 and LeMans

Wrong, as much as you can be wrong about something that doesn't really exist anyway.

It was always the WDC until recent revisionists decided to use Monaco instead.

[P123]

Overrated, hotheaded and a bit flattered by a weak team mate

Ha! Yeah....

[Jvr]

Wrong, as much as you can be wrong about something that doesn't really exist anyway.

It was always the WDC until recent revisionists decided to use Monaco instead.

[garoidb]

Wrong, as much as you can be wrong about something that doesn't really exist anyway.

It was always the WDC until recent revisionists decided to use Monaco instead.

 

Yes, there was a thread with some highly convincing posts about it over on The Nostalgia Forum. It makes sense - the F1 WDC (including it's predecessors) has been the key career defining accolade in F1 over the decades. Ditto the Indy 500 for US open wheel racing and Le Mans for sports car racing.

Edited by garoidb, 05 July 2018 - 19:15.

[Jvr]

Maybe it should be made quadruple crown with F1 WDC, F1 Monaco win, Lemans win, and Indy 500 win.

 

Graham Hill still qualifies as the one and only.

Edited by Jvr, 05 July 2018 - 19:17.

[FNG]

Wrong, as much as you can be wrong about something that doesn't really exist anyway.

It was always the WDC until recent revisionists decided to use Monaco instead.

So why isn't the Champcar/ Indy championship ever factored into it? The 500 was part of those championships. Why no Sportscar or endurance championships? I only ever heard of the triple crown being three races. Not two races and a championship Kinda smacks of F1 bias there

 

It's supposed to be the three most prestigious races in the world, the triple crown of races

Edited by FNG, 05 July 2018 - 19:18.

[jstrains]

Cheeky like Fernando ALonso!

[ArrowsLivery]

About his McLaren days - I think Ron really disliked him - after his 3 wins, the most ITV guys got from him was "A great drive from Juan Pablo" and the next sentence was always about how great Raikkonen's race was. He never went to collect trophy on the podium when Montoya won - Newey was on the podium when Montoya won British GP, Whitmarsh in Monza, Haug in Brazil. But every time that Kimi won thr race, Ron was on the podium with him (except in Belgium, where for some reason no McLaren representative showed up, so Raikkonen had to take both trophies).

McLaren had the same dynamic when Whitmarsh was the TP and Hamilton and Button were the drivers. Whitmarsh wouldn’t stop gushing about how great Button’s drives were from 12th to 5th while Hamilton got zilch for dragging the car to where it doesn’t belong. Team has always been odd in the modern times.