2923 replies to this topic

[Mandzipop]

New thread

 

See old thread for previous comments

 

https://forums.autos...q-power/page-81

[kernel]

Thank you for the prompt thread. Hope this one coincidentally leads to a better performance from the team. 

[GrumpyYoungMan]

Thank you for the prompt thread. Hope this one coincidentally leads to a better performance from the team.

Here’s to hoping a Mercedes 1/2 would be nice... 🤔😂

[kernel]

Here’s to hoping a Mercedes 1/2 would be nice...

 

It would empty Mercedes' good luck reserves for the rest of the season... 

[Jordan44]

Makes that £40m a year look like a bargain when the other driver paid the same threw away the first race in wet conditions he has lead in the hybrid era.

[kernel]

Lewis you can thank me for this one mate  

[Andromeda]

Mercedes strategy has been really poor form recently but they nailed it correctly today 

[Jordan44]

Mercedes strategy has been really poor form recently but they nailed it correctly today 

They should thank Hamilton for the oppertunity, making the tyres last that long.

[f1paul]

A bit of luck, but a perfect strategy from the Mercedes team today even though it was more of a case of Ferrari losing it rather than Mercedes winning.

[kernel]

A bit of luck, but a perfect strategy from the Mercedes team today even though it was more of a case of Ferrari losing it rather than Mercedes winning.

 

Unclear to me. Lewis said he had pace for pole. He was probably a lot more bullish than Vallteri. Vettel seemed to be running away with it in the dry vs. Valtteri, but Lewis showed really good tyre wear/pace on the softs, and then on the ultras. It would have certainly been a lot closer had Lewis not stopped in Q1.

 

I'd say there is far less of a delta between Ferrari and Mercedes in the race than in qualifying.

[f1paul]

Unclear to me. Lewis said he had pace for pole. He was probably a lot more bullish than Vallteri. Vettel seemed to be running away with it in the dry vs. Valtteri, but Lewis showed really good tyre wear/pace on the softs, and then on the ultras. It would have certainly been a lot closer had Lewis not stopped in Q1.

 

I'd say there is far less of a delta between Ferrari and Mercedes in the race than in qualifying.

Definitely. It's like Ferrari have a better qualy "party mode" but then it's quite equal in race trim. 

 

Also weird to see Merc have better tyre deg today than Ferrari. It just changes each race. Impossible to spot any patterns.

[kernel]

Definitely. It's like Ferrari have a better qualy "party mode" but then it's quite equal in race trim. 

 

Also weird to see Merc have better tyre deg today than Ferrari. It just changes each race. Impossible to spot any patterns.

 

I think it's likely that Merc has better tyre wear, but worse thermal degradation than Ferrari. I think as long as temperatures aren't obscenely high (>45), Mercedes will probably have the upper hand in that respect.

[geralt]

Hamilton's win was phenomenal, that first stint alone was mighty in how he managed his tyres and then in the wet he was vintage Lewis. Sad for Bottas who lost another win when he could have easily had it and really really disappointed in Merc for the team orders 

[beachdrifter]

New thread

 

See old thread for previous comments

 

https://forums.autos...q-power/page-81

 

Thread title is wrong. It's "W09", not "WO9". 

[GoldenColt]

This victory buys Merc time more than anything else. They need a few super upgrades before we arrive at Spa and Monza. I have Hungary down as a write off, with both RB and the reds being ahead.

[Unicast]

A big congrats for your victory guys 

Merc made all the right calls today, drivers made no mistakes and Lewis drove a fantastic race and fully deserves the win.

Also it was clear that Ferrari didn't have a huge edge race wise and your team had better tire deg so it's a lot more balance than many people are saying.

Ultimately this championship will go down to the one making less mistakes and today your team made less mistake and took a deserved win.

[ferrarista]

Definitely. It's like Ferrari have a better qualy "party mode" but then it's quite equal in race trim.

Also weird to see Merc have better tyre deg today than Ferrari. It just changes each race. Impossible to spot any patterns.

Bottas surely hadn’t better tyre wear than Seb, as seen on US.
Lewis can’t be judged, he was on the opposite strategy, with the prime on full fuel load and the option in the second stint that is always a faster strategy than the “normal” one on a rear limited track.

[beachdrifter]

A big congrats for your victory guys 

Merc made all the right calls today, drivers made no mistakes and Lewis drove a fantastic race and fully deserves the win.

Also it was clear that Ferrari didn't have a huge edge race wise and your team had better tire deg so it's a lot more balance than many people are saying.

Ultimately this championship will go down to the one making less mistakes and today your team made less mistake and took a deserved win.

 

Appreciate the comments, but it's not as close as you think. Vettel managed his pace, pulled out a gap when he needed to, was never in danger of losing it. Merc get predictably beaten at their worst tracks, but also at their best. The WDC shouldn't look close much longer. Vettel isn't going to make another mistake like this, and Merc's cars are failing now at an alarming rate, while Vettel's remains bullet-proof. 

 

Just a matter of time.

Edited by beachdrifter, 22 July 2018 - 15:37.

[kernel]

Appreciate the comments, but it's not as close as you think. Vettel managed his pace, pulled out a gap when he needed to, was never in danger of losing it. Merc get predictably beaten at their worst tracks, but also at their best. The WDC shouldn't look close much longer. Vettel isn't going to make another mistake like this, and Merc's cars are failing now at an alarming rate, while Vettel's remains bullet-proof. 

 

Just a matter of time.

 

He's been a brutal run since Baku (Baku, Austria, France, Germany)...

 

I agree though that this is just buying Merc some time. RBR has to be on point at the next race, or otherwise we need rain. 

 

EDIT: Early forecasts show 40-50% chance of rain on Sunday in Mogyorod (city hosting the race).

Edited by kernel, 22 July 2018 - 15:39.

[NateF]

Mercedes seem to be on top of the tyres, Hamilton in both this race and the last has seemed to keep life in these tyres despite cutting through traffic with them.

[beachdrifter]

Mercedes seem to be on top of the tyres, Hamilton in both this race and the last has seemed to keep life in these tyres despite cutting through traffic with them.

 

Yes, they seem to have a better grip (pun not intended) on them. Unfortunately they're now massively lagging in the engine and reliability department to make up for it.

[beachdrifter]

Someone please explain this to me: 

 

Edited by beachdrifter, 22 July 2018 - 15:57.

[beachdrifter]

I've never come across that chart feature before (ok, only have a subscription for a few races). 

 

But why does it not show Lewis, for example? 

Edited by beachdrifter, 22 July 2018 - 15:59.

[MasterOfCoin]

Mercedes seem to be on top of the tyres, Hamilton in both this race and the last has seemed to keep life in these tyres despite cutting through traffic with them.

I'll wait a bit longer to see if they really made some strides with these tires.....

[cheekybru]

Lazenby (sorry for spelling) said on sky that it was Lewis that made the call to stay out while the team were still saying in, is this confirmed?

[kernel]

Lazenby (sorry for spelling) said on sky that it was Lewis that made the call to stay out while the team were still saying in, is this confirmed?

 

Yes, Toto confirmed with on Sky.

[kernel]

I'll wait a bit longer to see if they really made some strides with these tires.....

 

I think they really have. They don't expect to challenge at Hungary or Singapore, though. 

 

Hungary could be at play here if forecasts showing thunderstorms/cooler temps do materialise, though.

[rog]

Lazenby (sorry for spelling) said on sky that it was Lewis that made the call to stay out while the team were still saying in, is this confirmed?

 

 

Another poor pit call from Mercedes and as a result this might cost Hamilton the win if he gets a penalty.

[SCUDmissile]

Congrats, Lewis again doing it in the wet.

Don't know what you guys have to worry about when it's raining with this guy, no matter where he starts it's an almost guaranteed win.

Seb was almost as quick too, but he binned it didn't he?

Deserved championship lead.

Also, I think it's now time to be done with the lazy analysis of Ferrari being better in the tyres than Mercedes, Lewis's impressive softshell stint proved that completely untrue today.

Mercedes are better on their tyres than the Ferraris.

Edited by SCUDmissile, 22 July 2018 - 19:55.

[beachdrifter]

I don't really have an excel sheet ready here, but did I get this right: 

 

Lewis was outscored by Vettel 4 out of the last 6 races, yet Lewis has equalled the biggest points lead either driver has had this season so far? And that's despite technical problems causing Lewis a DNF in a race and a quali? 

 

Granted, the lead itself is tiny and utterly meaningless with Ferrari having the car they have, but still fun to ponder this!

Edited by beachdrifter, 22 July 2018 - 18:49.

[SonGoku]

Well that engine in the Ferrari is clearly the strongest, so Lewis needs a few more miracles this season...

[GrumpyYoungMan]

Are both PUs being ran at maximum or is Mercedes holding any back given the initial reliability concerns with PU2 v2/v2 revision 1

[EndlessMotion]

I think the track temperatures helped Mercedes with tyre life today. i can't believe they've come up with a magic fix for tyre deg but maybe they're getting on top of it with setup and upgrades introduced a few races back coming together. I still worry for them when it's super hot track temperatures on a Sunday though, relative to Ferrari at least.

Still think the Ferrari PU gives them the advantage but it's by no means done and dusted. Today proves that and there will surely be even more twists and turns for both Hamilton and Vettel in the second half of the year.

[HermannH]

While Merc is leading the WCC and Hamilton is leading the WDC, those have much more to do with Ferrari's drivers messing up far too often. Their car has clearly been the car to have this season, except Spain where it was clearly the fastest. So the prospects are not that good, IMO. Any news on updates for next races? The most worrying thing is that Ferrari was destroying Merc on the straights, so Monza and Spa are looking very suspect. 

[beachdrifter]

I think the track temperatures helped Mercedes with tyre life today. i can't believe they've come up with a magic fix for tyre deg but maybe they're getting on top of it with setup and upgrades introduced a few races back coming together. I still worry for them when it's super hot track temperatures on a Sunday though, relative to Ferrari at least.

Still think the Ferrari PU gives them the advantage but it's by no means done and dusted. Today proves that and there will surely be even more twists and turns for both Hamilton and Vettel in the second half of the year.

 

Merc has so many issues to fix. 

 

First, there is reliability. Lewis was hit by technical problems in the last 2 out of 3 races! That's alarming to an extreme.

 

Then, there's race starts vs. Ferrari. 

 

Then, there's falling behind further and further on the engine front. 

 

Then.... the list goes on and on.

[beachdrifter]

Are both PUs being ran at maximum or is Mercedes holding any back given the initial reliability concerns with PU2 v2/v2 revision 1

 

I don't think there is any reliability concern about the power unit at all. It's the rest of the car that keeps falling apart.

[SonGoku]

Merc has so many issues to fix. 

 

First, there is reliability. Lewis was hit by technical problems in the last 2 out of 3 races! That's alarming to an extreme.

 

Then, there's race starts vs. Ferrari. 

 

Then, there's falling behind further and further on the engine front. 

 

Then.... the list goes on and on.

 

They really have to find something magical during the summer break or else...

Edited by SonGoku, 22 July 2018 - 19:00.

[GrumpyYoungMan]

I don't think there is any reliability concern about the power unit at all. It's the rest of the car that keeps falling apart.

I didn’t know given the delayed introduction of PU version 2 due to the crank and the alleged upgrade revision? Or was it staged? As they knew they had an upgrade already they wanted to fit?

Edited by GrumpyYoungMan, 22 July 2018 - 19:01.

[OO7]

Merc has so many issues to fix. 

 

First, there is reliability. Lewis was hit by technical problems in the last 2 out of 3 races! That's alarming to an extreme.

 

Then, there's race starts vs. Ferrari. 

 

Then, there's falling behind further and further on the engine front. 

 

Then.... the list goes on and on.

beach I agree, with the exception of race starts.  I think race starts between Ferrari and Merc have been pretty even.  The two races where Ferrari started on the softer tyres skews the image a little, as does Hamilton's bad start in Silverstone.

[EndlessMotion]

There's much work to do for everyone at Brackley there's no doubt. But I don't think we're going to have our arses handed to us by Ferrari at every race for the remainder of the season. Their deployment is frankly a little scary and of obvious concern right now and along with reliability they should be top of the list of things to do.

 

But don't forget we took pole off of them at Silverstone and Austria, tracks where their PU should in theory have destroyed us. There are more variables than the PU alone and this car and team have some strengths that can be called upon and even improved on between now and the rest of the season. Lewis is obviously one of them and traditionally he goes into beast mode after a summer holiday.

 

Ferrari could have won the WDC last year when Mercedes had the slightly better car but Vettel didn't maximise his points. It'll take some luck and a real push from the entire team but with Lewis at the wheel I still reckon the WDC is achievable, if not the WCC also. It's going to be a hell of a battle that's for sure. It was apparently WDC over (not for the first time this season I might add) according to some after qualifying yesterday and just have a look at the points standing now. Races like today won't happen every race weekend but when the opportunities are seized upon it can buy you a few weekends buffer when Ferrari are winning.

Edited by EndlessMotion, 22 July 2018 - 19:13.

[piszkosfred]

Mercedes seem to be on top of the tyres, Hamilton in both this race and the last has seemed to keep life in these tyres despite cutting through traffic with them.

It's interesting that they used to have big problems coming back from the back because of dirty air and now in the last two races no problems at all. He basically pushed all the way, in traffic and tyre performance stayed consintent. 

[beachdrifter]

It's interesting that they used to have big problems coming back from the back because of dirty air and now in the last two races no problems at all. He basically pushed all the way, in traffic and tyre performance stayed consintent. 

 

So can we expect him to be consistently slow next race? 

[Jordan44]

It's interesting that they used to have big problems coming back from the back because of dirty air and now in the last two races no problems at all. He basically pushed all the way, in traffic and tyre performance stayed consintent.

Mercedes have never suffered with passing midfield cars, the problem has always been Red Bull and Ferrari. In the last two races we didn't see any of that

Edited by Jordan44, 22 July 2018 - 19:58.

[beachdrifter]

beach I agree, with the exception of race starts.  I think race starts between Ferrari and Merc have been pretty even.  The two races where Ferrari started on the softer tyres skews the image a little, as does Hamilton's bad start in Silverstone.

 

Let's hope that at least that problem isn't as bad as it looked. Toto commented that they fell behind in that regard since Canada. And in Silverstone they apparently misjudged track conditions, leading to the wheelspin we saw. 

 

I think a statistic of Vettel vs. Hamilton (lost places at the start) would still look pretty one-sided...

[Mercstar]

Let's hope that at least that problem isn't as bad as it looked. Toto commented that they fell behind in that regard since Canada. And in Silverstone they apparently misjudged track conditions, leading to the wheelspin we saw. 

 

I think a statistic of Vettel vs. Hamilton (lost places at the start) would still look pretty one-sided...

 

Today Bottas had a marginally better getaway then Seb, so its not really a big issue for them. 

[beachdrifter]

Today Bottas had a marginally better getaway then Seb, so its not really a big issue for them. 

 

Let's see if that can become the rule, rather than an exception before concluding anything. They kept stressing how much time they spent working on that problem over the last few weeks, so it definitely was a big issue based on their analysis. 

[robefc]

Let's see if that can become the rule, rather than an exception before concluding anything. They kept stressing how much time they spent working on that problem over the last few weeks, so it definitely was a big issue based on their analysis. 

 

Lewis's start was good too.

 

And Max's was better than Kimi's if we're comparing to the red cars.

 

All good signs! 

[beachdrifter]

Lewis's start was good too.

 

And Max's was better than Kimi's if we're comparing to the red cars.

 

All good signs! 

 

Thanks, I haven't seen a good angle of Lewis start in Hockenheim yet. However he was surrounded by much less capable cars there of course!

[beachdrifter]

Hamilton telling it like it is again: 

 

"Ferrari are faster and more reliable. We can't just rely on their drivers making mistakes."

 

 

But to be honest I have no idea what they can do from here. They have no way of matching Ferrari's engine advantage (don't even understand what it is), and it seems like they can't fix their reliability issues either (otherwise, Hamilton should have never had the same problem Bottas had a little while ago). 

 

But after this race, at least there's some hope things could look exciting for a while longer!

[teejay]

I think the fight is going to drive the best out of the engineers, and drivers. 

 

Look forward to seeing what Merc can do in the second half of the season.