95 replies to this topic

[Ben1445]

So I mean, this kind of thread happens seemingly at least yearly for Formula 1 during the off season and Formula E’s calendar received a relatively lukewarm reception for being fairly similar to last season with few new additions. Seeing as it’s FE’s off season and they’re on the threshold of the ‘Gen2’ era, maybe its a good time to try one!

 

This is the current expected calendar: 

 

1 - Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

2 - Marrakesh, Morocco

3 - TBA (expected to be a new Santiago layout)

4 - Mexico City, Mexico 

5 - Hong Kong

6 - Sanya, China 

7 - Rome, Italy 

8 - Paris, France

9 - Monaco, Monte Carlo

10 - Berlin, Germany

11 - Zürich, Switzerland

12 - New York, USA (1)

13 - New York, USA (2)

 

But what would your ideal calendar be? How many races? Where? Double headers? Use some more known iconic venues or find some new places? 

Edited by Ben1445, 27 July 2018 - 18:34.

[Ben1445]

Mine: 

 

Thinking about a very deliberately circumnavigational route of I think around 14-16 races and, for now, keeping the rough structure of the current calendar. Something a little like; 

 

1 - Adeleide, Australia 

2 - Japanese round, somewhere like Tokyo or Osaka

3 - Chinese round (maybe the new Sanya venue, if it's good, if not elsewhere) 

4 - India (perhaps New Dehli or Mumbai) 

5 - A middle eastern round somewhere. 

6 - Morocco 

7 - Santiago 

8 - Sao Paulo

9 - Mexico City

10 - New York

11 - Rome

12 - Paris 

13 - Monaco

14 - Zürich

15 - Berlin

16 - London 

[Kalmake]

Double header at Nordschleife and call it a season.

[balmybaldwin]

How about one with out a massive gap in the middle so we can remember the series is actually on?

[Vielleicht]

Interesting one!

I’d think further into the future, 15-20 rounds would be good. Keeping some of the cities they have already would be good, but some of the venues may need tweaking or moving. Pairs, Rome, Berlin and Zürich are all solid cities to have, but all will probably need venue tweaks in due course. A return to London would be good, but if they’re too tricky about it some other UK city could benefit. A Japanese, Australian and Indian round are all good shouts. I quite like the Mexico City stop but I can’t help but feel it sticks out as not a proper street circuit.

Perhaps something like:

1. Dubai
2. Mumbai/New Delhi
3. Hong Kong
4. Shanghai
5. Tokyo
6. Adeleide/Sydney
7. Santiago  
8. Sau Paulo
9. Cape Town
10. Marrakech
11. Barcelona (Montjuïc revival)
12. Rome
13. Paris

13a. possible UK round (I'm just skeptical that's all)
14. Berlin
15. Zürich
16. Mexico City
17. Vancouver
18. New York

Edited by Vielleicht, 27 July 2018 - 18:52.

[Ben1445]

Vielleicht, on 27 Jul 2018 - 18:51, said:

11. Barcelona (Montjuïc revival)

 

17. Vancouver
 

Great shouts. Especially Montjuic 

[Ben1445]

balmybaldwin, on 27 Jul 2018 - 18:45, said:

How about one with out a massive gap in the middle so we can remember the series is actually on?

Ha! Yeah would be nice. For both existing fans and fans-to-be. 

[pacificquay]

Certainly should be a UK round.

A world championship without one is not worthy of the name.

[Vielleicht]

The gaps between races were not as bad in Season 4 as they had been and thy will be roughly similar in Season 5. There's just one or two unfavorable gaps which can be plugged with the addition of a few more races.

 

Anyway, if you're having trouble remembering when a series is on, you can do what I do and put the race dates in your phone/PC calendar. Works a charm for me for multiple series.

[Ben1445]

pacificquay, on 27 Jul 2018 - 19:17, said:

Certainly should be a UK round.

A world championship without one is not worthy of the name.

Why? What other countries have a make-or-break hold on 'World Championship' worthiness? 

[maximilian]

Sill believe that all races should be double-headers, where ever they go.  Doesn't make sense to set up all that trouble in the middle of the city, and then for it to be over in 45 minutes.

 

Need to ADD races in Australia (Surfers, if IndyCar doesn't go there), Singapore, UK and Japan.

 

Great to have HK, Long Beach, Monaco, Mexico City.

 

Nice European core races in Moscow, Rome, Berlin and Paris.  Zürich turned out good, too.

 

Really like the idea of the Southern "winter series" races to bridge the gap in the off-season - love the Punta setting.  Buenos Aires or Santiago.

 

Morocco is nice to get an "African" round in.

 

Definitely MORE races... almost don't really care that much where, as long as they have more, and reduce the gaps.  Also a real opportunity to capitalize on the winter months that's still being missed quite a bit.

[BRG]

Ben1445, on 27 Jul 2018 - 19:25, said:

Why? What other countries have a make-or-break hold on 'World Championship' worthiness? 

The ones that have a tradition of motorsport, have a viable motorsports industry, have some credible motorpsort activities, you know, countires that actually 'do' motorsport?

 

Or you can go down the politically correct route that says that we have to help out the poor deprived non-motorsport countries and reward them for their previous complete lack of interest.  Then we have a calendar with races in Bhutan, the Maldives, Equatorial Guinea, Brunei, Laos, Gabon and Fiji.

 

Or you take the Bernie approach and sell your soul to the highest bidder and then cash out while the going is good.

[jonpollak]

My back garden. Your back garden. Oxford Circus. Putin's dacha bathroom.

[Ben1445]

BRG, on 27 Jul 2018 - 19:54, said:

The ones that have a tradition of motorsport, have a viable motorsports industry, have some credible motorpsort activities, you know, countires that actually 'do' motorsport?

Well ok, fair point. Makes an awful lot of sense to go to prioritise going to places where the fans already are.

 

But that's a slightly different issue - I'm wondering why the UK specifically is apparently held as a place where a world championship simply must visit over anywhere else or it can't be a 'real' world championship - it kind of follows on from the similar reaction to Silverstone briefly being missed off the WEC super-season whilst no one seemed to mind too much that Italy has never held a WEC round since it started in 2012. Surely that's as equally important? 

 

It's not like FE is just visiting all the 'poor deprived non-motorsport countries' because it goes to countries like Germany, France and Italy... It's had racing in the US and/or Canada in every season so far.. Mexico and the Latin Americas are big on their motorsport and have been represented in every season. It visits China, the largest producer of the automobile in the world. These are all traditional motorsport and/or automotive manufacturing centres - and yet somehow it's the lack of a UK round that is the deal breaker? 

Edited by Ben1445, 27 July 2018 - 20:51.

[Vielleicht]

maximilian, on 27 Jul 2018 - 19:45, said:

Need to ADD races in Australia (Surfers, if IndyCar doesn't go there)

YES

[scheivlak]

Add a Pikes Peak time trial and/or Mont Ventoux or something like that

[Vielleicht]

scheivlak, on 27 Jul 2018 - 21:25, said:

Add a Pikes Peak time trial and/or Mont Ventoux or something like that

Not a ridiculous idea actually. Likely not that feasible but an interesting thought - and who cares when this is an idealised calendar!

 

I mean it was mentioned somewhere that FE were planning possible 'roadshow' demo visits like F1 does occasionally. Add a random hill-climb or something on this 'world tour' might be fun.

[THEWALL]

Have one race a year with computer drivers to see how the technology is advancing, could be at Comic-Con...

[Vielleicht]

There was an enterprising person who, for a while, had fun thinking about possible Formula E layouts. Appear to have stopped now, but there's a few interesting ideas in there. https://schalensys.wordpress.com/

[PayasYouRace]

One where the season starts and finishes in the same calendar year.

[Collombin]

Ben1445, on 27 Jul 2018 - 19:25, said:

Why? What other countries have a make-or-break hold on 'World Championship' worthiness?

The British invented electricity.

[Vielleicht]

I don't especially mind the FE season starting and ending in different calendar years, what bothers me is having to say 'the 2014-15 season' for example. Would be easier to refer to them officially, if they continue this route, as Season 1, Season 2 etc. Which we/they kind of are already, but they could really make a feature of it.

 

But then you could also alleviate that issue by having seasons held within in the same calendar year...

[PayasYouRace]

Vielleicht, on 28 Jul 2018 - 07:48, said:

I don't especially mind the FE season starting and ending in different calendar years, what bothers me is having to say 'the 2014-15 season' for example. Would be easier to refer to them officially, if they continue this route, as Season 1, Season 2 etc. Which we/they kind of are already, but they could really make a feature of it.

 

But then you could also alleviate that issue by having seasons held within in the same calendar year...

 

Calling them "Season x" means you have to remember which years each season was held. Whenever a series uses winter seasons I tend to use the year it finished as the year of the season, and certainly for the year of the champion.

 

However, where I'm coming from is that, for one, they start the season at the end of the year with only one or two races and then have a long break before finishing the season, and also that winter series are out of sync with the rest of the motor racing world when it comes to contracts and such.

[CL16]

I’d like them to start in January so it’s all in one year and have a year by year champion.

[pdac]

No one putting forward a 30-race calendar, then?

[Vielleicht]

PayasYouRace, on 28 Jul 2018 - 08:16, said:

Calling them "Season x" means you have to remember which years each season was held. Whenever a series uses winter seasons I tend to use the year it finished as the year of the season, and certainly for the year of the champion.

True enough.

 

PayasYouRace, on 28 Jul 2018 - 08:16, said:

However, where I'm coming from is that, for one, they start the season at the end of the year with only one or two races and then have a long break before finishing the season, and also that winter series are out of sync with the rest of the motor racing world when it comes to contracts and such.

I would certainly like to see more of that December-March gap used more by FE. And on the contracts front, the WEC is moving to a similar format - could be said it's better to have two series out of step as opposed to only one. Also drivers end up being dropped/replaced/out of a job because the team collapsed mid-season quite often. If you're only half way into a 'traditional' racing season, you can look for a drive in the winter season championships and be driving again later that year, else you may be waiting until the following March. So it's all pros and cons to me.

[maximilian]

pdac, on 28 Jul 2018 - 10:32, said:

No one putting forward a 30-race calendar, then?

 

I did. 

[maximilian]

Vielleicht, on 28 Jul 2018 - 07:34, said:

There was an enterprising person who, for a while, had fun thinking about possible Formula E layouts. Appear to have stopped now, but there's a few interesting ideas in there. https://schalensys.wordpress.com/

 

Fun for a while, yeah... sure sounds bitter in his farewell message, though.  Like someone owed him something for coming up with fantasy street circuits?

 

FWIW, my New Delhi track proposal was much better than his!

[GodHimself]

I would like to see them race on proper circuits more. Currently, whenever I watch a Formula E race, what puts me off the most is not how slow the cars are (relative to F1) or the noise. It's the mickey mouse, uninteresting and frankly fake street circuits that do. I get the reasons why they prefer to race in such places, but this is prioritizing short-term marketing over long term popularity and health of the series in my opinion. If you are going to race mostly on street circuits then at least try to make them into proper street circuits, that do not feel like an awkward, soulless, temporary circuit, hastily put together in some random post-industrial complex, straight from Need For Speed.

 

^^^ really? Is this the best you can do Formula E? 

[Ben1445]

GodHimself, on 28 Jul 2018 - 17:12, said:

...put together in some random post-industrial complex, straight from Need For Speed.

You say that like it's a bad thing?!

There's a whole set of people who grew up on (and are growing up on) films and games like that, so that temporary layout street racer aesthetic is really, I have always felt, part of FE's strategy. The only thing is they still have to comply with FIA safety standards, which games and films do not.

I don't know, the thread was indeed set as 'your ideal' calendar and if that's 'proper' circuits then that's ok. I just don't personally think not choosing to go to permanent venues is going to be a problem long term, as you suggest.

[BRG]

I would personally prefer 'proper' venues, but if there is some FE marketing issue that favours street tracks, so be it.  But please, can't they be decent street tracks, with out the almost compulsory stupidly slow hairpin and pointless chicanes?  (Some have claimed that these help with conserving energy through regeneration but that is nonsense.  You use more energy accelerating back up to speed after these corners than you ever gain regenerating under braking for them.  Simple physics.  Newton told us that.) The world's cities and minor seaside towns surely contain enough roads that could make up reasonable circuit layouts. 

[Sterzo]

I have no objection to a preponderance of street circuits, but it would be good to see some permanent tracks in there too. How about a British round at Cadwell Park? And how about taking advantage of the lower speeds, and setting up road circuits in the countryside?

[maximilian]

Using CITY street racing is exactly one of the biggest points and strategies of FE.  Everybody and their grandma races on proper circuits, their aim is to bring racing to where the people are, with (arguably) city-relevant "clean" e-technology.  As long as the circuits are wide enough and provide plenty of action and overtaking, I would MUCH rather see the FE street courses - where a mistake actually MEANS something - than those wide open asphalt hell runoff zone "proper" race tracks that tend to bore the crap out of me in F1. 

[Vielleicht]

BRG, on 28 Jul 2018 - 20:33, said:

I would personally prefer 'proper' venues, but if there is some FE marketing issue that favours street tracks, so be it.  But please, can't they be decent street tracks, with out the almost compulsory stupidly slow hairpin and pointless chicanes?  (Some have claimed that these help with conserving energy through regeneration but that is nonsense.  You use more energy accelerating back up to speed after these corners than you ever gain regenerating under braking for them.  Simple physics.  Newton told us that.) The world's cities and minor seaside towns surely contain enough roads that could make up reasonable circuit layouts. 

I'm sure they can be.

 

I'd be lying if I thought all of the FE venues were perfect, but I do think the overall strategy and marketing direction of city/street/urban venues is the right one. We know good street circuits are possible if you're willing/able to foot the bill for the required infrastructure, and I think it's fair to say FE have, at times, put the prestige of the city ahead of the quality of the venue and it's infrastructure.

 

But... my feeling is that having those relatively low investment (for a street venue) circuits is what has allowed them to gain those big name cities, which has allowed them to grow and attract investment faster which should allow them to pay for better circuit infrastructure in the cities they want and in which they already have established races in. In short I still think they're playing the long game with this and I predict in a decade the circuits will be of much higher quality then they are now. With any luck.

[PeterScandlyn]

My ideal Formula E calendar would be like the latest A1 GP calendar, non existent......

[Kalmake]

BRG, on 28 Jul 2018 - 20:33, said:

I would personally prefer 'proper' venues, but if there is some FE marketing issue that favours street tracks, so be it.  But please, can't they be decent street tracks, with out the almost compulsory stupidly slow hairpin and pointless chicanes?  (Some have claimed that these help with conserving energy through regeneration but that is nonsense.  You use more energy accelerating back up to speed after these corners than you ever gain regenerating under braking for them.  Simple physics.  Newton told us that.) The world's cities and minor seaside towns surely contain enough roads that could make up reasonable circuit layouts. 

Add air resistance to your calculations and you see why they can't have high speed circuits.

[Lights]

Most of the current circuits are simply ****. I would like it if they would run on non-street circuits. Even something like Albert Park would be nice, or Brands Hatch. Something that actually looks like a circuit, with some nature around it.

[Rob29]

Lights, on 29 Jul 2018 - 18:58, said:

Most of the current circuits are simply ****. I would like it if they would run on non-street circuits. Even something like Albert Park would be nice, or Brands Hatch. Something that actually looks like a circuit, with some nature around it.

 

Sorry-a real circuit is one with buildings around it? nature should be left to the cattle & agriculture?
 

[ClubmanGT]

PeterScandlyn, on 29 Jul 2018 - 04:08, said:

My ideal Formula E calendar would be like the latest A1 GP calendar, non existent......

 

Nah let them race, just underwater. 

[Vielleicht]

I can feel a 'Best to worst: Formula E circuits ranked' thread vibe creeping into this one

[Vielleicht]

I mean I've always thought they should be aiming for Long Beach, Toronto, St. Pete and Surfers Paradise standard of circuit. The first of which they did indeed visit in Seasons 1 and 2.

 

Still think the best they've managed, and closest to those, from an FE original standpoint was Puerto Madero, in Buenos Aires. It's just a shame there's civil road infrastructure work (as I understand it) that has prevented them going back as of yet.

[Ben1445]

Vielleicht, on 30 Jul 2018 - 08:08, said:

I can feel a 'Best to worst: Formula E circuits ranked' thread vibe creeping into this one

I thought I was pushing the boat out a bit with this one! Maybe another time 

[Vielleicht]

Vielleicht's Ideal Near-ish Future Formula E Calendar - 2019 Edition
 
Went a bit mad, been putting together some of these over the course of the season. Some most likely unrealistic, but assuming everything were to magically work out, this would be my modified FE calendar for a few years time. Because why not.
 
Starting in October/November and running through to July:
 
Round 1 - Dubai
Warm start to the season, wildly ideal in it's placement. But hey ho anything could happen.

 
Round 2 - Surfers Paradise
An absolute classic, deserves a single seater return. A popular choice, I'd imagine.

 
Round 3 - Santiago de Chile
The country will play a major part in the EV supply chain so an ePrix should be on the cards for a while. Slight modifications to the O'Higgens Park circuit which debuted this season.
 

Round 4 - Sao Paulo
Brazil has supposed to have had a race ever since Rio was listed on the preliminary calendar for the inaugural season. Two Brazilian champions later and no such race has materialized. A shorter version of the IndyCar layout was expected for season 5 and may make a return yet.
 

Round 5 - Mexico City
That crowd. Formula E shouldn't abandon Mexico if it can help it. Perhaps a medium version of the famous autodrome would offer the best of both worlds.
 

Round 6 - Long Beach
The full layout this time. One of the best street circuits in the world, in my opinion. Not sure how this would tie in with the IndyCar Grand Prix, but this is an idealised calendar so I'm going with it. 
 

Round 7 - Tokyo
Seems like a logical addition to the calendar if it can be done. Here's a possible layout around the Olympic Park.
 

Round 8 - Beijing
Don't panic, I would want a new layout. But the scene of the first ever ePrix deserves a second chance. Using some of the sweeping sections of the original circuit, something like this maybe.
 

 

Round 9 - Marrakesh
Continuity is always welcome in a calendar, and keeping Marrakesh wouldn't be such a bad plan. Maybe one or two circuit modifications wouldn't go unmissed, such as this one.
 

 

Round 10 - Barcelona
The return of Monjuïc to the world of motorsport. A near direct revival of the original with an added chicane around the roundabout. The city that is slowly detoxing of cars and embracing walking and cycling may benefit from an FE race.
 

 

Round 11 - Rome
The current venue was one of the best attended of all in it's first season. FE should build on that and go back. I think the layout could do with a but of streamlining from all those twisty sections, so here's my proposal.
 

 

Round 12 - Monaco
The full layout at last.
 

 

Round 13 - Berlin
Tempelhof would be the last remaining Season 1 venue, assuming some expansion could happen in due course to fit with increasing pace of FE cars, perhaps this would suffice for an old friend of FE.
 

 

Round 14 - Bern
I'm assuming this layout will be good. It looks spectacular but time will tell when they get on track later this season. So I have included it here anyway. Bringing racing back to Switzerland is among FE's most impressive achievements to date.
 

 

Round 15 - London
Unfinished business. A return to London is a known target for FE. Here's my idea of how an Olympic Park circuit may look.
 

 

Round 16 - New York
Hear me out! Now it's established FE should hold on to this world famous city. Take as much time as it needs to expand, improve or move the circuit. The city has too much prestige to leave it. Perhaps future track changes could reconcile some doubters. 
 

 

Round 17 - Vancouver
A revival from CART history this time in the form of the 1990s layout in Vancouver. In my opinion this would be a great end to the season.

Edited by Vielleicht, 19 February 2019 - 18:47.

[f1paul]

^Love it. 16-17 races is the right number as well for any world championship. 

[Ben1445]

   That's brilliant. 

 

Impressive commitment there! I also think 16-17 is perfect - not too many not too few. 

[Bob Riebe]

All races on February 29.

[Vielleicht]

The only bad thing about a 16-17 race hypothetical calendar is streaming out 13 of your 30 shortlisted hypothetical venues.

[Vielleicht]

Was thinking whilst I was doing this that a 'Design Your Own Formula E Circuit' competition akin to the livery competitions might be fun. Maybe for the off season or something, not sure. Thoughts anyone?

[PayasYouRace]

While I get Formula E's idea of taking racing to cities, I'd like to see a couple more permanent circuits now that the cars are a bit faster. There's some lovely circuits out there that might suit the sill relatively slow FE cars.

 

Vielleicht, on 22 Feb 2019 - 18:05, said:

Was thinking whilst I was doing this that a 'Design Your Own Formula E Circuit' competition akin to the livery competitions might be fun. Maybe for the off season or something, not sure. Thoughts anyone?

 

 

Yeah sounds fun. I guess all you need is to map out a route on google maps (or other online map of your choice).

[Ben1445]

Yeah I think that would be cool. Good street circuit design is a bit of an art if you ask me.