1647 replies to this topic

[maximilian]

I’ve seen a lot of people disappointed that Müller hasn’t got the drive at Audi but I’m not convinced that he is any better than Abt anyway. He’s been the Daniel Abt of DTM where he is quite reliable and consistent but has never been the lead Audi driver or title challenger, although he’s been a lot closer this year. And as a single seater his record was nothing special. Keeping Abt in FE and Müller in DTM seems the logical choice.

I would however love to see René Rast given a go. He seems incredible whatever car he driver.

 

 

Thanks for that link, Rudo!

 

Seconded on Rene Rast - the guy keeps popping up in various places doing really well!

 

Maybe Müller could be placed into another team for now, before moving to the prestigious factory Audi team?  Although I couldn't say which... the Envision Virgin seats are all definitely taken.

 

Outside chance we might see him in the Porsche, if Lotterer stays at DS Techeetah?

[maximilian]

Cool pix, just saw this on the beeb - sorry if already posted before?

 

https://www.bbc.com/...ctures-48592892

[RSRally]

According to e-racing 365, if Marrakech doesn't happen there will not be another race in December.. which would mean a two month gap at the start of the season.

So i really hope Marrakech happens, don't want to go back to the bad old days of massive calendar gaps in FE.

[thegamer23]

Indeed. Fingers crossed for Marrakesh to happen

[Vielleicht]

Hmmm what could this be...

 

 

Popped up on an instagram tag I was following. There's a document with a title suggesting preliminary layouts for Jakarta and the text translates to (taking exceprts):

 

"Jakarta will be one of the hosts of the prestigious Formula E car race in mid-2020"

"[...] flew to New York to complete negotiations with the Formula E management agency."

"The team from Formula E has also come specifically to conduct field tests in Jakarta on July 8-9."

 

I wonder if that will amount to anything or is even how much of it is accurate.

 

Interesting.

[f1paul]

"Mid-2020" - if that means by calendar year then that surely means it will be one of the last races so unlikely to happen IMO. 

 

And also a FE team went to do a test last week? Or is that next year? 

[Vielleicht]

Yeah the timescales seem off. Either it's for another time in the season or for the season after. Or the ares dates all premature and nothing is set in stone.

 

I think by team from FE they mean a team from FE themselves to conduct a venue feasibility study?

[RSRally]

Race 7 is TBC although pencilled in for somewhere in China, a change to Jakarta sounds feasible?

[messy]

I’ve seen a lot of people disappointed that Müller hasn’t got the drive at Audi but I’m not convinced that he is any better than Abt anyway. He’s been the Daniel Abt of DTM where he is quite reliable and consistent but has never been the lead Audi driver or title challenger, although he’s been a lot closer this year. And as a single seater his record was nothing special. Keeping Abt in FE and Müller in DTM seems the logical choice.
I would however love to see René Rast given a go. He seems incredible whatever car he driver.

I think Abt gets a slightly raw deal, his place in the team has always been questioned due to his obvious family connections (and rightly so early on, when he wasn’t much use) but he’s steadily improved a lot and has always been a stronger #2 than, say, Nico Prost. I don’t really see why Audi would change. Di Grassi and Abt are a good, proven pairing both capable of winning.

But yeah, I’d love to see Rast because he's a real talent wherever he races. Just a proper, old fashioned fast racing driver who can turn his hand to anything and be competitive. I reckon you could stick him on a MotoGP bike and he’d get into Q2!

[PiperPa42]

Race 7 is TBC although pencilled in for somewhere in China, a change to Jakarta sounds feasible?

Close enough, it’s east of Suez ;)

[maximilian]

Jakarta would be a great venue, also because it's a city that is fighting tremendous pollution problems - so showcasing "emission-free" vehicles would seem appropriate there.

[Vielleicht]

Mainstream motorsport press have picked up on the Jakarta story now

https://www.autospor...-indonesia-race

 

FE Spokesperson: “We’re in advanced discussions but aren’t yet able to make any announcement.”

[Silberpfeil]

Despite the fact that I think they‘ve done a very good job with the hand they were dealt, I was a bit surprised to see that HWA was apparently the best-ever rookie team in FE.

I am very interested to see what they can do when they are finally freed of the difficult and unreliable Venturi package and with the full might of Mercedes behind them. Right now, Stoffel is definitely my choice of dark horse for next year.

Source: https://twitter.com/...8365542402?s=21

Edited by Silberpfeil, 15 July 2019 - 16:46.

[NorwegianRudo]

Despite the fact that I think they‘ve done a very good job with the hand they were dealt, I was a bit surprised to see that HWA was apparently the best-ever rookie team in FE.

I am very interested to see what they can do when they are finally freed of the difficult and unreliable Venturi package and with the full might of Mercedes behind them. Right now, Stoffel is definitely my choice of dark horse for next year.

Source: https://twitter.com/...8365542402?s=21

 

The Venturi package had it's problems. It was reasonably fast to start the season, but constantly breaking down. After the technical problems were sorted there were really only a couple of races before the top teams had developed themselves out of reach on racepace.

 

On the positive side, the team improved hugely from making making quite a few mistakes at the start of the season to seemingly running as smoothly as any team by the end. Will be very interesting to see if Porsche can avoid the teething problems next season.

[thegamer23]

Rio De Janeiro open to Season 6 debut!

https://it.motorspor...9-2020/4496262/

 

The Piquets (Nelson + Nelsinho) were attended by Rio's Major & got the green light & full support to organize an event in Copacabana. 

Rumors about Rio getting the empty December slot. 

Edited by thegamer23, 17 July 2019 - 07:45.

[Anja]

Gotta love the twitter drama. 

 

https://twitter.com/...075030815715329

[Silberpfeil]

I don‘t really mind the regular reminders that Di Grassi can be a huge dirk. He has absolutely earned them.

[Vielleicht]

What did we all think of the inaugural Jaguar I-Pace eTrophy by the way?

[thegamer23]

The Jaguar I-Pace needs more cars & more coverage. 
Why not streaming the races on the FE's YouTube channel instead of some Jaguar Facebook Pages?

[Ben1445]

I was not massively impressed with the I-Pace's actual racing to be honest. It was really quite processional for the most part. Maybe the possibility of following FE's lead and adding Attack Mode might help them get a bit of strategic thinking into the racing. 

 

Think it would help to have more cars definitely and that is easier now it is an established thing. Also to have any sort of support series is good for FE and fills the gaps in track action for spectators at the track. So that's great. 

[Silberpfeil]

The Jaguar I-Pace needs more cars & more coverage.
Why not streaming the races on the FE's YouTube channel instead of some Jaguar Facebook Pages?

Hold on, the I-Pace races were streamed?

(And that, I believe, tells you all you need to know about that.)

[Anja]

I watched the first race and didn't feel any desire to tune in ever again. 

[OvDrone]

Maybe Jakarta can foreshadow one impending future timeline:

 

[Vielleicht]

What have FE's manufacturers been gaining from FE? Well, you answer is here...

https://www.wired.co...-tech-transfer/

 

Audi

- Weight savings of 10% on EV powertrain components - will be fed back to road car design

 

BMW

- Testing use of modern materials and manufacturing techniques to lighten electric motors and improve their efficiency

- Brake by Wire system already transferred to the X5, X7 and 8-Series models

- BMW's FE powertrain and the i3 and Mini Cooper EV road models share common coding on the electric motor control software

- Team that developed the FE powertrain also worked on the road car powertrains as well, so the transfer of knowledge is direct

 

Mahindra

- Knowledge from FE program has fed into the now Mahindra owned Pinninfarina on their EV hypercar, the Battista

- Exposed the company to supply chains neccesary to improve their EV manufcaturing operation

 

Nissan

- Relative newcomer but starting to set up links between race and road program to transfer lessons to their road cars a la other manufacturers

 

Porsche

- using their electric Taycan as a simultanious test bed for their EV components, so both their FE program and their first road EV will have a shared development process.

 

Not in the article but

Mercedes

- FE powertrain will be developed at Mercedes HPP in Brixworth, alongside the F1 Hybrids. Collaboration between F1 hybrid powertrain team and the FE powertrain team will support both programs and use the existsing kowledge transfer set up between HPP's racing operations and their road models.

 

Jaguar

Think is was mentioned somehwere that the I-Pace uses knowledge from the FE operation, particualarly in the cooling systems.

Edited by Vielleicht, 23 July 2019 - 11:25.

[Vielleicht]

Feel like this belongs ina Season 6 thread but

 

[thegamer23]

Feel like this belongs ina Season 6 thread but

https://www.youtube....h?v=uCsDfUVqb9E

Weirdest track in FE history.

But it could turn out good

[M66R]

That track is so strange. Some of the track is definitely single file... Even narrower than the straight in Monaco up to the hairpin. I have severe doubts but I hope it works out.

[Ben1445]

It sounds completely mad. 

 

New York looked( and was indeed considered) terrible at first visit. Now it's matured a bit and is I think accepted as a pretty decent venue with more room for improvement. 

 

Perhaps a few iterations down he line and Excel could establish itself as a decent venue? From what we can see it looks like it may be a bit clunky/weird on first visit... 

[Muppetmad]

Battersea Park was always a peculiar venue (although one which I liked a great deal - which apparently put me in the minority); I think this will be a step up in terms of peculiarity 

[Ben1445]

Thing is you have rigid 'feature' sections in the loading ramps and the cavernous concrete chicane. There's the narrow run past the DLR station. But the rest of it in the tarmac expanse to the north and the area outside at the east entrance and the large halls inside... they're essentially a blank canvas. Those sections can change. 

 

That's something Battersea couldn't really have done even if the local public didn't wholesale object - it was all rigid feature and no room for improvement. As fun and interesting as it was, it never really had a long term future as FE evolved. ExCeL can adapt and evolve, which presents an interesting possibility. 

[PiperPa42]

A downhill ascent?

Could be interesting, but it looks a bit tight.

[thegamer23]

END OF SEASON THREAD STATS

 

Formula E Season 5 Thread (2018/2019) - 33 Pages, 1631 posts

 

Formula E Season 4 Thread (2017/2018) - 18 Pages, 874 posts

 

Formula E Season 3 Thread (2016/2017) - 23 Pages, 1102 posts

 

Formula E Season 2 Thread (2015/2016) - 23 Pages, 1129 posts

 

Formula E Season 1 Thread (2014/2015) - 39 Pages, 1931 posts

 

 

Worth considering that the 2014/2015 thread started back in DECEMBER 2012, so it had many (20+ pages) of discussion around the FE concept before it even started. 

So, with Gen 2, interest around FE has boosted on record levels. 

And it's going to get even better next season with the arrival of Porsche & Mercedes .

 

 

Season 6 thread coming next week!

Edited by thegamer23, 27 July 2019 - 08:58.

[Silberpfeil]

That‘s great to see. Do we have any numbers on the average length for the race threads? I seem to recall anything from 2 to 6 pages, but I‘m not quite certain.

Edit: Of course the NYC thread on the front page alone is already seven pages long…

Edited by Silberpfeil, 27 July 2019 - 09:51.

[Vielleicht]

Going through the Season 1 thread right from the get go is very interesting reading.

 

That we've got from there to FE having regular dedicated race threads, a season thread and silly season threads is actually very impressive, I think.

[f1paul]

Absolutely only F1 (obviously) and IndyCar gets more usage on this forum. 

[Vielleicht]

Ha, I was going through some of the 2011/12 dated FE threads and there was one predicting they would never get people getting up in the middle of the night to watch races because it would be too boring... and yet here I am having lost whole nights of sleep in the last few seasons just so I wouldn't miss the practice sessions!

 

Absolutely only F1 (obviously) and IndyCar gets more usage on this forum. 

I think that's a pretty big achievement. The caliblre of some of the racing out there which doesn't get this level of treatment on here can be suprising at times.

 

All appropriate credit to those who make this happen, I say.     _{You know who you are...}  

[Ben1445]

Where does FE sit now in the grand scheme of motorsports then? When it started it was a bit of a curious side-show with an uncertain future. Not so much anymore. 

[thegamer23]

Where does FE sit now in the grand scheme of motorsports then? When it started it was a bit of a curious side-show with an uncertain future. Not so much anymore. 

 

 

Let's put it this way.

If you're a professional single seater racing driver and you can't realistically buy or reach a seat in F1..

What are your most appealing alternatives?

Indycar, Formula E, Superformula

 

Indycar racing is great and i love it... the serie it's huge in America but....not so much everywhere else... in Europe the buzz is mainly only around the Indy 500, then you'll probably never hear about it for the rest of the year.

For example, in Italy the serie is not even shown anymore, while FE has plenty of coverage.

Superformula...the same. Big in Japan, but hardly any media exposure. 

 

Let's talk about Formula E. 

Formula E drivers salaries are said to be pretty damn high, a huge numbers of official manufacturers is involved so you can get a chance to be involved in other racing programmes too outside Formula E. (and you can do both given 1-2 races/month average calendar!).
Also, FE is worth Superlicence points, so promising young drivers can even debut in FE and grant themselves a chance in F1 in the future. 

 

I'd say FE is maybe the best alternative to F1 at the moment for a single seater driver, considering a number of factors combined.

And that's a huge achievement, considering where it all started.   



 

Edited by thegamer23, 27 July 2019 - 19:20.

[balage06]

Well, if you only factor in global recognition and salaries, then you're probably right, but in terms of pure driving experience and speed, Formula E is miles off the other alternatives you've just mentioned. I think the Super Formula car is the second fastest formula after F1 currently, that machine has incredible cornering speed, IndyCar's delta was actually closer to F2 than Super Formula in COTA compared to F1. And the "chance to be involved in other racing programmes" also feels like a stretch to me, because in reality, factory drivers get the chance to do FE programmes as a side job.

Edited by balage06, 27 July 2019 - 18:31.

[Vielleicht]

Season 1 was, as mentioned, a bit of a curious side-show. Full of hope and promise but no one really knew if it would last the season let alone multiple. I wasn't really a part of the motorsport scene, just an sort of experiement and some fairly well established teams and drivers.

Season 2 was I think fairly similar to season 1 in that respect, only we had the variation of individual powertrain designs which added a new element. I think it was Jaguar annoucing that they would enter a factory team for the following season that set the trajectory in a tangible direction away from an experiemnt and towards serious busniess.

Season 3 had an inrecible and continual run of announcements that other manufacturers would commit to FE. Audi, BMW and then that amazing week when Merc and Porsche decided to announce their entry. There were big name sponsors jumping ship as well. I think it was probably during Season 3 that we knew it was going to actually be something.

Season 4 I think was then similar to Season 3, only we had the looming promise and hope of Gen 2 to think about. Most of it was waiting for the transition, and sort of saying goodbye to Gen 1in the process.

Season 5 is an obvious step change I think. Of course Gen 2 arrived and ended the need for the car swap. There's been a stronger influx of drivers looking to potentially make it their home rather than just passing through on the way to better things, like Vergne has managed to do. We've had a dramitic season with varied winners. Again we've had the looming preparations of Porsche and Mercedes for Season 6.

If we follow the pattern, Season 6 will feel like a solidifying of Season 5. Season 7 with the chassis update may well then bring another little stop forward.

I think where it sits in motorsport will depend on who you ask and their viewpoint. It is solidly a part of the professional motorsport scene now. That's for sure. Depending on your criteria it is somewhere in the IndyCar/Superformula/old LMP1-H league now.

Edited by Vielleicht, 27 July 2019 - 18:52.

[thegamer23]

Well, if you only factor in global recognition and salaries, then you're probably right, but in terms of pure driving experience and speed, Formula E is miles off the other alternatives you've just mentioned. I think the Super Formula car is the second fastest formula after F1 currently, that machine has incredible cornering speed, IndyCar's delta was actually closer to F2 than Super Formula in COTA compared to F1. And the "chance to be involved in other racing programmes" also feels like a stretch to me, because in reality, factory drivers get the chance to do FE programmes as a side job.

 

I think the point raised by Ben was not about the outright speed of the car, but where Formula E stands in the overall Motorsport scheme. 
 

Edited by thegamer23, 27 July 2019 - 18:46.

[Anja]

Rationally, I'd say it's pretty important by now. As the others said - right up there with the top non-F1 single seaters, a very attractive option for drivers. But for some reason I just don't feel like it carries that sort of weight yet, not really. It's weird, I can't really pinpoint that feel to any specific factor. Maybe the races are too short - not giving me enough of a "big event" feel. Maybe it's the lack of heritage and history behind it. Maybe it's about relatively slow cars. I just don't know. I really like FE, I've been watching since the very first race and missed only a few since then but when I watch any particular race I don't feel like it means as much as let's say another IndyCar round. 

[Vielleicht]

Rationally, I'd say it's pretty important by now. As the others said - right up there with the top non-F1 single seaters, a very attractive option for drivers. But for some reason I just don't feel like it carries that sort of weight yet, not really. It's weird, I can't really pinpoint that feel to any specific factor. Maybe the races are too short - not giving me enough of a "big event" feel. Maybe it's the lack of heritage and history behind it. Maybe it's about relatively slow cars. I just don't know. I really like FE, I've been watching since the very first race and missed only a few since then but when I watch any particular race I don't feel like it means as much as let's say another IndyCar round.

I know what you mean. And personally I think it is simply that FE doesn’t have a long storied history yet. So much of what makes other races and series feel important for me is the history of it all. FE has worked hard to try carve its own history for the most part (aside from going to Monaco) and that’s cool and all but it does come with the drawback of lacking a certain provenance to winning at a certain venue or even the championship titles.

Gaining that quality can only come with time I think.

[M66R]

Where does FE sit now in the grand scheme of motorsports then? When it started it was a bit of a curious side-show with an uncertain future. Not so much anymore.

For me Formula e is top of the pile for me, over the season it has the best % of entertaining racing with the most potential winners. Although JEV won the championship comfortably it was very tight at the top for so long. It isn't perfect, some of the tracks are too tight width wise and some of the corners are ridiculous (the chicanes that Fe seems to love)

Second is now Indycar. I've followed it on and off over the years but this year I've watched each race and again similar to FE, good racing, multiple winners.

[Ben1445]

I think the point raised by Ben was not about the outright speed of the car, but where Formula E stands in the overall Motorsport scheme. 

Yes indeed. The speed/pace of the cars is only one way to measure a series. I agree that FE has worked its way into the Indy-SuperFormula-WEC(Pro classes) level of things now, which I have to say is damn respectable. 

 

That would imply that FE, in the grand scheme of things, is above the likes of WTCR, V8 Supercars and various GT3 series to name a few. Comparing to multi class endurance racing is tricky when you have a Pro-Am mix, but there's definitely aspects of WEC/IMSA that I think FE is above. It's been eating at DTM for a bit, especially on the manufacturers side, along with a few drivers.Having seen a few young drivers plotting and even making a shift from F2 to FE when F1 has closed its doors to them indicates it is seen as a feasible post F2 option, indicating that it is above F2 on the progression ladder. Of course, that isn't taking anything away from the other series mentioned - they are all respectable and enjoyable in their own right. It is just that FE is now a fully professional global series with high manufacturer presence, which is not a claim that many can make and it carries a certain weight. 

 

Well, if you only factor in global recognition and salaries, then you're probably right, but in terms of pure driving experience and speed, Formula E is miles off the other alternatives you've just mentioned. I think the Super Formula car is the second fastest formula after F1 currently, that machine has incredible cornering speed, IndyCar's delta was actually closer to F2 than Super Formula in COTA compared to F1. And the "chance to be involved in other racing programmes" also feels like a stretch to me, because in reality, factory drivers get the chance to do FE programmes as a side job.

I think that was true of the first handful of seasons. Buemi has had his Toyota WEC drive the whole time and FE was a side job to that to begin with. Di Grassi also had the Audi P1 and Ferrari GT drives in WEC but he's dropped those  programs and is focussing on FE now. Vergne drives LMP2 but I am sure he going to be remembered more for his FE double championship more so than any of LMP2 class exploits. Lotterer has dropped SuperFormula to focus on FE and Jani is dropping WEC to focus on FE - becoming their primary jobs, not their side jobs.

 

Basically I don't think FE is a side job anymore. I think it is a professional racing drive that you may or may not be able to pair up with another program depending on contracts and calendars. 

 

I know what you mean. And personally I think it is simply that FE doesn’t have a long storied history yet. So much of what makes other races and series feel important for me is the history of it all. FE has worked hard to try carve its own history for the most part (aside from going to Monaco) and that’s cool and all but it does come with the drawback of lacking a certain provenance to winning at a certain venue or even the championship titles.

Gaining that quality can only come with time I think.

 

Yes, this is what it is missing to cement its long term place in motorsport - long history and stand out, blue-riband events. As you say they mainly come with time, but if I was head of FE now, I would be trying to find a way to organically sow the seeds for that to happen. 

Edited by Ben1445, 28 July 2019 - 10:24.

[Vielleicht]

Yes, this is what it is missing to cement its long term place in motorsport - long history and stand out, blue-riband events. As you say they mainly come with time, but if I was head of FE now, I would be trying to find a way to organically sow the seeds for that to happen. 

This is why getting the calandar stabilty and establishing long-term venues/cities is important. If it keeps hopping about and overhauling things every year then nowherewill feel established and have the history of tradition associated with it.

[Vielleicht]

Some Gen2.5 news

https://www.autospor...unishing-design

 

"Autosport understands that the cosmetic change to the look of the Gen2 car is set to be a drastically different 'Gen2.5' design.

The changes are set to be significantly bigger than the additional front wing elements made to the Gen1 car after its first two seasons."

[maximilian]

Hopefully it also won't cause a great deal more material falling off the cars, possibly necessitating a FCY with too much debris on the track...

 

VERY interested to see the updated look.  There was definitely room for improvement, to the 2.5 could be massively sexy if they get rid of some of the poorer parts of the 2.0 design.