103 replies to this topic

[SophieB]

@F1
 

Lap 1, Turn 1 - all the angles #BelgianGP #F1

 

https://twitter.com/...736082603425793

 

 

Following the incident reminiscent of the start crash that earned a race ban for Romain Grosjean in 2012, Alonso said he was baffled by what Hulkenberg did.

"Yet again a very big-time missed braking point," Alonso told BBC Radio 5 Live. "Last time Romain had a race ban. This time we'll see.

"It's hard to understand how you can miss a braking point that much. You arrive at a speed where it's impossible to negotiate the corner."

 

 

https://www.autospor...t-crash-driving

 

I suspect it will turn out that there is some mechanical failure on Hulk's car. Anyway, you can discuss the fallout from the start of the race here. You know, if you like.

 

 

[goldenboy]

Bottas drove into the back of someone as well didn't he?

[f1paul]

[SophieB]

Bottas drove into the back of someone as well didn't he?

 

There were a few! I can't remember who Bottas hit, though. One of the Williams?

[sergeym]

There were a few! I can't remember who Bottas hit, though. One of the Williams?

 

IIRC it was Sirotkin's Williams.

[tmekt]

Alonso's fault for not avoiding the Hulk. If he had been in the lead or even six tenths ahead this would've never happened.

Edited by tmekt, 26 August 2018 - 15:48.

[JHSingo]

Has Hulkenberg said anything yet? Ben Edwards was speculating a failure for the Renault, but has it been confirmed as driver error?

[Bleu]

There were a few! I can't remember who Bottas hit, though. One of the Williams?

 

Yes, Sirotkin.

[Sterzo]

Alonso's fault for not avoiding the Hulk. If he had been in the lead or even six tenths ahead this would've never happened.

Also Verstappen's fault of course; he was using up part of the tarmac. Meanwhile Leclerc's halo looks so ugly. These prima donna pampered drivers are so soft. A proper old school driver would have deflected Alonso's car with his head.

[Victor_RO]

Serious note, just looked at the onboard and, from rev lights and driver movement, it looked to me like Hulk started braking around the 100m mark (he's in 6th on the onboard, the shift lights go out but the gear doesn't change so it's clear he's on the brakes), but the car doesn't want to slow. Locking both fronts like that even in a first-corner messup is rather uncharacteristic even for a serious driver error. To me it looks like there was some kind of failure on the rear brakes.

 

EDIT: Well, with the penalty, that's me wrong I guess. 

[f1paul]

Hulkenberg with 10 grid place penalty and 3 penalty points.

[Seanspeed]

Braking point wasn't the problem, it was braking application.  Too heavy with the foot.

[f1paul]

Has Hulkenberg said anything yet? Ben Edwards was speculating a failure for the Renault, but has it been confirmed as driver error?

 

He said he "misjudged the grip level" and complained about this year's cars and how it's so easy to lock up when you're right behind a car.

[Jvr]

Hülkenberg: 10 place grid penalty for Monza,

 

Bottas summoned to the Stewards.

 

Ricciardo next?

[Eruobodo]

He said he "misjudged the grip level" and complained about this year's cars and how it's so easy to lock up when you're right behind a car.

Basically he messed up, good on him to accept responsibility.

[scheivlak]

Hülkenberg: 10 place grid penalty for Monza,

 

Bottas summoned to the Stewards.

 

Ricciardo ne

Difficult to blame Ricciardo, most of his rear wing was suddenly gone which could well changed the downforce level and the behavior of his car.

[Jvr]

[Jvr]

Difficult to blame Ricciardo, most of his rear wing was suddenly gone which could well changed the downforce level and the behavior of his car.

Do you have a video of did he lose the RW before or after ramming Kimi? Only thing I have seen is Ricciardo's onboard hitting directly Kimi's right rear and bouncing on the Ferrari rear wing when the T1 was already over.

Edited by Jvr, 26 August 2018 - 16:15.

[scheivlak]

Do you have a video of did he lose the RW before or after ramming Kimi? Only thing I have seen is Ricciardo's onboard hitting directly Kimi's right rear and bouncing on the Ferrari rear wing when the T1 was already over.

His rear wing was severely hit by debris from Alonso's car, you can see that on several clips.

[Victor_RO]

His rear wing was severely hit by debris from Alonso's car, you can see that on several clips.

 
It wasn't hit by debris, it was clipped by the front wing of Alonso's car while airborne. And 100% before the clash with Kimi.
 
EDIT:
 
https://twitter.com/...750777804808193
 

Not official yet but looks like @ValtteriBottas has a 5s pen and 2 points for hitting SIR at start. Won’t impact his fourth place

[Bomsb]

Sky sports after the race also showed Kimi coming out of T1 had to jab the brakes cos he got pinched. Ricciardo in his post-race interview said he felt the shunt from the back, looked in his mirrors coming out of the corner and all of a sudden was up Kimis rear wing. You dont expect to rear end someone accelerating out of a corner so dont know how you can assign blame to Dan for that incident with Kimi.

[Marklar]

Bottas penalty makes no sense, why not applying this during the race when it can have an impact (as in the competition can actually react to it). And if you give him a meaningless penalty why dont you give him a reprimand which is more likely to hurt in the long run?

[dweller23]

Yeah no idea why Bottas wasn't penalized during the race, clearly his fault there. How many points does he have now? Crash today, trying to crash Vandoorne yesterday, torpedoing into Ricciardo at Hungaroring, surely he's got a handful?

[Victor_RO]

Yeah no idea why Bottas wasn't penalized during the race, clearly his fault there. How many points does he have now? Crash today, trying to crash Vandoorne yesterday, torpedoing into Ricciardo at Hungaroring, surely he's got a handful?

 

Stewards' document says he's on 4 points over the last 12 months after this penalty.

[pdac]

He said he "misjudged the grip level" and complained about this year's cars and how it's so easy to lock up when you're right behind a car.

 

Guess he should leave a safe distance between him and the car in front, just like the highway code says.

[Mian30]

Hulkenberg "Once again most unsporting driver of the race"

[KnucklesAgain]

He said he "misjudged the grip level" and complained about this year's cars and how it's so easy to lock up when you're right behind a car.

 
 

Basically he messed up, good on him to accept responsibility.

 
What? He was not right behind a car, at least not when braking started. How is this accepting responsibility? (Or was this sarcasm?)

Edit: Oh I see that he did it in the stewards' meeting. OK then

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 26 August 2018 - 17:07.

[LeClerc]

 

 

I don't rate Hülkenberg as much as some here, but thumbs up for him owning his mistake.

[Jvr]

 
It wasn't hit by debris, it was clipped by the front wing of Alonso's car while airborne. And 100% before the clash with Kimi.
 

 

Yes, that seems to be the case now that FOM footage has been released on YouTube.

 

But from the same footage: Leclerc was saved by the halo. Alonso's right front wheel was directly going towards his head and Halo deflected that, broke the suspension and flipped Alonso's car in the other direction.

 

I posted some screenshot images on the Halo thread.

 

https://forums.autos...opic/?p=8494866

Edited by Jvr, 26 August 2018 - 17:23.

[Kucki]

Why didnt Hulkenberg lift off the brakes to be able to steer away from the car infront.

 

To just skid along for tens of meters waiting for an impact is an incredible driving nooby mistake. Lift off the brakes if you cant make it to be able to steer away from the thing infront of you if you dont have a chance to make it. You learn this in even regular driving school.

 

Hulkenberg just skids and skids and ploughs into the car infront. That was the worst driving reaction in years.

[SophieB]

Renault Sport F1‏Verified account @RenaultSportF1 44s44 seconds ago

More

“It was probably a misjudgement from my side as I was a bit late on the brakes, so it’s frustrating for me, the team, and the other drivers caught up in the incident.” Read Nico's full quote Full report http://rsport.me/e25e73  #RSspirit #BelgianGP

[PistolPete]

Serious note, just looked at the onboard and, from rev lights and driver movement, it looked to me like Hulk started braking around the 100m mark (he's in 6th on the onboard, the shift lights go out but the gear doesn't change so it's clear he's on the brakes), but the car doesn't want to slow. Locking both fronts like that even in a first-corner messup is rather uncharacteristic even for a serious driver error. To me it looks like there was some kind of failure on the rear brakes.

 

EDIT: Well, with the penalty, that's me wrong I guess. 

 

Of course the brakes doesn't work as well when he is at the back of the field with no downforce. He should know that.

[BuddyHolly]

Any penalty for Bottas for hitting a Williams up the arse?

[Jvr]

Any penalty for Bottas for hitting a Williams up the arse?

5 seconds and 2 penalty points.

 

Offence Doc40 - V.Bottas

[dweller23]

For anyone wondering about Ricciardo's wing, here's an F1TV shot from Hartley's onboard that I just grabbed:

[FLB]

Of course the brakes doesn't work as well when he is at the back of the field with no downforce. He should know that.

And especially when everything is still cold. Fisichella crashed on cold brakes in 2007.

[Trust]

Bottas penalty is disgraceful. 

[anyeis]

How does it take 30s to call a obvious safety car? Merc must wonder if that would have happened with red car in front

[ANF]

How does it take 30s to call a obvious safety car? Merc must wonder if that would have happened with red car in front

I used to get upset about that, but then I realised that they wait with the SC boards until the cars have reached a place where it's safe for them to bunch up. For example, you want to avoid sudden deceleration up the hill from Eau Rouge...

[Bleu]

How does it take 30s to call a obvious safety car? Merc must wonder if that would have happened with red car in front

 

I think what they did was better for other drivers' safety. Going over 250 km/h and still battling on the first lap - if drivers react to safety car signal at different times it could lead to even further accidents. Two examples from junior formulae.

 

 

[A3]

Ricciardo ended Kimi's race, he hit him some time after he himself was hit. I get that he might have been occupied with his mirrors, but he still drove into the back of Kimi under acceleration.
https://streamable.com/k07iw

[P123]

Ricciardo ended Kimi's race, he hit him some time after he himself was hit. I get that he might have been occupied with his mirrors, but he still drove into the back of Kimi under acceleration.
https://streamable.com/k07iw

I wonder if the sudden lack of rear downforce gave him an unexpected boost in acceleration... It was quite a hit on Kimi with what appeared a large disparity in pace.

[A3]

I wonder if the sudden lack of rear downforce gave him an unexpected boost in acceleration... It was quite a hit on Kimi with what appeared a large disparity in pace.

No, not at that speed I presume. Kimi had to back off and RIC was busy looking in his mirrors and ploughed into him.

[Francesc]

What a farce this is becoming.

 

Bottas hits another driver at the start and not only they wait until after the race to give him a penalty, they curiously give him 5 seconds penalty that, oh surprise, doesn't affect his final race result.

[Gareth]

Congrats to Vettel and Ferrari, super race today

Loved Arrivabienne's interview with Sky (again), complete class.

Congrats also to the FIA for holding firm on the halo.

On the timing of the SC, with a near 2 min lap no need to rush it. Throw it at a safe spot. Nothing for Merc, Hamilton or their fans to complain about today. Beaten fair and square.

Unlucky for Kimi, Riccardo and the other guys caught up in T1. A poor error from the Hulk, but uncharacteristic and some harsh consequences for all concerned.

Delighted for Racing Point nagging a great haul of points in their first race

EDIT: Whoops, sorry, thought I was in the race thread ...

[PistolPete]

What a farce this is becoming.

Bottas hits another driver at the start and not only they wait until after the race to give him a penalty, they curiously give him 5 seconds penalty that, oh surprise, doesn't affect his final race result.

It would have been a lot more difficult for him to score points had he been punished harder.

[zanquis]

Renault Sport F1‏Verified account @RenaultSportF1 44s44 seconds ago


More

“It was probably a misjudgement from my side as I was a bit late on the brakes, so it’s frustrating for me, the team, and the other drivers caught up in the incident.” Read Nico's full quote Full report http://rsport.me/e25e73 #RSspirit #BelgianGP

I think multiple drivers can testify to cars losing massive downforce when following others cars. Maybe the F1 solution will be to make them even bigger

[Ze Bum]

What a farce this is becoming.

 

Bottas hits another driver at the start and not only they wait until after the race to give him a penalty, they curiously give him 5 seconds penalty that, oh surprise, doesn't affect his final race result.

 

Bottas only harms himself in the first corner and gets a penalty. It is indeed a farce.

 

They used to have all kinds of collisions in the first corner without any penalties.

[engineblock1]

What a farce this is becoming.

 

Bottas hits another driver at the start and not only they wait until after the race to give him a penalty, they curiously give him 5 seconds penalty that, oh surprise, doesn't affect his final race result.

 

While it's not really a 'penalty' when you dont lose anything, fair play to Bottas and Merc that they have built a car, where they can ram into others, fall behind, climb up the field and finish with a gap that even 5s, 10s does not hurt them. It's more to do with F1's concept of fixed penalties rather than anything else.

[Clatter]

How does it take 30s to call a obvious safety car? Merc must wonder if that would have happened with red car in front

 

Did delaying the call cause a safety issue?