198 replies to this topic

[sopa]

Recent hot topic is obviously Vettel's championship campaign falling apart. Seemingly the opportunity to take Ferrari's first championship in 11 years and his first championship with Ferrari is getting to him at the moment. Maybe it will all turn around in the last 7 races, but at the moment it looks like that.

 

But the topic isn't just about Vettel. It's a much more general one to discuss pressures drivers face in F1.

 

Which drivers do you think in history couldn't handle pressure? And in which seasons specifically? Why was that? What happened?

 

It is said that whenever you are in F1, you are always under pressure. Because for starters you have to beat your team-mate and convince your worth in the series. However, which situations offer greater pressure than others? I think all F1 drivers can handle at least some pressure to an extent, otherwise they wouldn't be there. But when could it get too much for them?

 

In which situations do you detect that drop in driver's performance is directly caused by pressure, and not some other factors?

 

What are your answers/thoughts to these questions?

 

Discuss. 

[Retrofly]

Rosberg, he couldn't handle it even when he won

[CL16]

Massa 2008, similar to Vettel this season.

[FLB]

Carlos Reutemann.

 

 

Montreal 1981 was in large part created by the fact the rain Goodyears were atrocious compared to the Michelins, but Las Vegas was something else.

[Pentecost]

I don't know if pressure is really such a big factor in Vettel's case.

He's making the same mistakes I've always seen him make, but this time he can't get away with it because the Ferrari is not dominant.

During the Red Bull dominance he was usually ahead of everyone, but when he has to go wheel-to-wheel, he makes mistakes.

He will lose the title to Hamilton and he will only have himself to blame.

[goldenboy]

I really don't like vettel, but he has handled pressure before.

[statman]

I always think Buemi is in a state of panic when you listen to his radio messages, not sure if it affects his driving though

[Loosenut]

Michael Schumacher often fell at the last hurdle, having made a beastly fight of a championship all season.

[Lights]

There's no driver that specifically can't handle pressure well compared to other drivers. Any examples in here will be reaching.

[goldenboy]

There's no driver that specifically can't handle pressure well compared to other drivers. Any examples in here will be reaching.

Have to agree with you after thinking about it. Everyone is going to have their good and bad days. A better question would be who has dealt with the pressure the best.

[Kalmake]

Michael Schumacher often fell at the last hurdle, having made a beastly fight of a championship all season.

Yep.

• 1994 went off and DNFed the car
• 1997 failed to block rival
• 1998 stall on grid, not sure whose fault
• 1999 bad start from pole
• 2006 clash and puncture

[Rors]

Rosberg, he couldn't handle it even when he won

 

Nico is a family man - he quit to spend time with his family after achieving his long life goal. Not everyone is obsessed with Money, fame and winning.

[krapmeister]

Unfortunately, you *could* make an argument that Webber couldn't handle the pressure in 2010... 😥

[PayasYouRace]

<p>

Yep.

• 1994 went off and DNFed the car
• 1997 failed to block rival
• 1998 stall on grid, not sure whose fault
• 1999 bad start from pole
• 2006 clash and puncture

His Japan 2003 was a mess too.

[abc]

Im rather amazed how well all of them are driving in decisive moments. For me in the final seconds of Q3 it is sometimes difficult to put the spoon into the coffee. 

[JeePee]

Unfortunately, you *could* make an argument that Webber couldn't handle the pressure in 2010...

Webber couldn't handle the pressure of the start lights.

[w1Y]

I think this backlash on seb has gone way too far.If there was one driver on the grid to try and use the slight ferrari advantage to close the gap and win the wdc away from lewis it would be seb.

I think he will **** quite a few of you up at singapore

[messy]

His Japan 2003 was a mess too.

 

Yup, spent the whole race sat behind Sato and bashed his front wing didn't he? 

 

For all he was truly great, Schumacher in the final, championship deciding race, was often a bit of a mess. 

[sopa]

Yeah. Schumacher was indeed quite a strange case in the decisive race.

 

Though at least for once, at Suzuka 2000, he managed pressure masterfully in somewhat damp and tricky conditions to win the race and bring Ferrari their first WDC in 21 years.

[Marklar]

Every driver on this level can handle pressure otherwise they wouldnt have reached this level in the first place.Some can handle it better than others most of the time and others even thrive under pressure sometimes.

[PayasYouRace]

Maybe at Suzuka 2000 he didn’t have the pressure of it being the final race. He didn’t seem to have problems when he could wrap up the title early.

[cpbell]

Carlos Reutemann.

 

 

Montreal 1981 was in large part created by the fact the rain Goodyears were atrocious compared to the Michelins, but Las Vegas was something else.

I was about to mention Reutemann!  He must be the archetype of a driver throwing a chmpionship away due to pressure.

[BillBald]

I think this backlash on seb has gone way too far.If there was one driver on the grid to try and use the slight ferrari advantage to close the gap and win the wdc away from lewis it would be seb.

I think he will **** quite a few of you up at singapore

 

Given the struggles Merc have often had at Singapore, I don't think many would be betting against Seb.

 

But last year...

[beachdrifter]

Vettel is doing fine. He knows he can easily afford these mistakes/take these risks and still end up comfortably on top, with his car expected to be fastest in all of the remaining 7 races. 

 

And you can see it in his statements, too.

[beachdrifter]

Max Verstappen. The more competitive his car is (and thus with the higher expectations), the more he falls apart. I don't know how many points that has cost him this season already, it's hard to keep up with all the incidents. And his radio messages were fun again in Italy, where he threw away points again.

Edited by beachdrifter, 04 September 2018 - 11:59.

[sopa]

Rosberg, he couldn't handle it even when he won

 

Always remember, how exhausted Rosberg looked after the Abu Dhabi season finale. After he had to overtake Verstappen and deal with Hamilton's tricks in the final laps. Shows you that championship deciding race really is something else! But despite mental exhaustion Nico managed that pressure fine.

 

Im rather amazed how well all of them are driving in decisive moments. For me in the final seconds of Q3 it is sometimes difficult to put the spoon into the coffee. 

 

Qualifying indeed is a good example of handling pressures well. Dying seconds to get either through Q1 or Q2 or set your lap in Q3. You know you need to get in a perfect lap just to improve your time by a couple of tenths and get the result needed. And it's your last and only chance. Impressive. Though it has to be said they don't always manage it. Sometimes some drivers fluff up their laps, either in Q1, Q2 or Q3.

[Dratini]

I always think Buemi is in a state of panic when you listen to his radio messages, not sure if it affects his driving though

No one sounds more frantic on the radio than Hartley though, it has to be said.

[Dratini]

Vettel is doing fine. He knows he can easily afford these mistakes/take these risks and still end up comfortably on top, with his car expected to be fastest in all of the remaining 7 races. 

 

And you can see it in his statements, too.

Indeed he made a comment after Italy about the pace of the car and that if Ferrari continue to do what they are doing then the 30 point gap is not really that big.

[klyster]

No one sounds more frantic on the radio than Hartley though, it has to be said.

 

Button could sound a bit frantic at times...

[NorthEast]

I think this backlash on seb has gone way too far.If there was one driver on the grid to try and use the slight ferrari advantage to close the gap and win the wdc away from lewis it would be seb.

I think he will **** quite a few of you up at singapore

 

surprise? why star it out? 

[screamingV16]

His Japan 2003 was a mess too.

 

 

Yep.

• 1994 went off and DNFed the car
• 1997 failed to block rival
• 1998 stall on grid, not sure whose fault
• 1999 bad start from pole
• 2006 clash and puncture

 

 

Not championship finale, but in the thick of the championship battle whilst leading in Canada 1999 he binned it badly under pressure from Hakkinen throwing away his championship lead in the process.

[beachdrifter]

Indeed he made a comment after Italy about the pace of the car and that if Ferrari continue to do what they are doing then the 30 point gap is not really that big.

 

The gap could be gone after the next 2 races already even without something extraordinary happening. We're going from Merc's best track relative to Ferrari (where Lewis just managed to eke out the win), to their worst, to another one that doesn't suit them. I'd be highly surprised if Vettel is not in the lead after the next 3 races.

Edited by beachdrifter, 04 September 2018 - 11:58.

[Sterzo]

No-one can rival Reuteman in 1981. I'd also put forward Phil Hill as an example of a massively talented driver who declined drastically when he found himself under pressure to perform in a lesser car. It wasn't just that his machinery was hopeless after 1961; he seemed to have lost the plot.

[messy]

The ultimate example in recent motor racing must be Danny Kent in his Moto3 World Championship year. 

 

He absolutely fell apart, somehow still managed to drag himself over the line. 

 

I suppose it's like those dreams? The ones where you're in a running race, then suddenly you're so heavy and you can't move. 

[Rors]

Season is not even over - We saw how Vettel kept it going and  won his first WDC in 2010 while the likes of Alonso, Lewis, Webber and Button collapsed. 

[sopa]

The ultimate example in recent motor racing must be Danny Kent in his Moto3 World Championship year. 

 

He absolutely fell apart, somehow still managed to drag himself over the line. 

 

I suppose it's like those dreams? The ones where you're in a running race, then suddenly you're so heavy and you can't move. 

 

Haha, yeah nice one.

 

Wonder, if Button felt himself a "bit heavy" in the second half of 2009 too? He was flying in the beginning.

[TomNokoe]

Hamilton outbraked himself Korea and Brazil 2010 and on both occasions let Alonso through.

[GiorgioF1]

Not a single mention of Kvyat yet? 

[Blackmamba]

For a 4 time world champion Vettel seems to make a lot of mistakes though. You would think after his championships he would be able to relax and enjoy himself. But no 11 years into his career he is still making some of the most baffling errors you expect from a still maturing Verstappen or a too eager to impress Grosjean. It must be the pressure of having to lead Ferrari to their first title in over a decade. That must weigh heavy on his shoulders. Add to that he has to win that title against Hamilton, a driver who is surely going to be remembered as one of the All Time Greats of Formula 1. Perhaps even top 5. That must bring a lot of pressure so that when in traffic he tries too hard when executing manoeuvres even when patience would better serve him. In Baku and in France and in Italy he could have waited for better opportunities later in the race but somehow the close proximity of Hamilton sends his heart into a frenzy every time.

[Jordan44]

I think this backlash on seb has gone way too far.If there was one driver on the grid to try and use the slight ferrari advantage to close the gap and win the wdc away from lewis it would be seb.

I think he will **** quite a few of you up at singapore

 

I can think of a driver in a McLaren I'd much rather have.

[beachdrifter]

Not a single mention of Kvyat yet? 

 

I thought about him too, but my memory is fuzzy what exactly he did where. He seemed to melt down all season.

[Blackmamba]

Season is not even over - We saw how Vettel kept it going and  won his first WDC in 2010 while the likes of Alonso, Lewis, Webber and Button collapsed.

The red bull was by far the best car in 2010. It’s remarkable how close the championship was really. They had 15 out of 19 pole positions. Vettel did his level best to lose that championship. Not unlike what we are seeing now, making a hash of it with the best package.

[Jordan44]

The red bull was by far the best car in 2010. It’s remarkable how close the championship was really. They had 15 out of 19 pole positions. Vettel did his level best to lose that championship. Not unlike what we are seeing now, making a hash of it with the best package.

 

The 2010 Ferrari was more than 3 tenths slower than the Red Bull on average in qualifying. The others didn't collapse, Vettel did, but got bailed out by the brilliance of his car.

[sopa]

Have to agree with you after thinking about it. Everyone is going to have their good and bad days. A better question would be who has dealt with the pressure the best.

 

Drivers indeed have good and bad days. Especially inconsistent drivers you always expect to be inconsistent, whatever the reason for inconsistency may be.

 

Though if there are clearly visible better and worse periods in a career, you start to wonder about the reasons. Some of them are natural - i.e inexperience early in career, losing your edge later on.

 

But sometimes it's not so clear-cut. For example it did seem like Frentzen couldn't handle being at Williams, especially in the beginning. It may have been a cultural shock for him. But there might have been other reasons for his sudden loss of performance.

 

Also if we look at Grosjean. He was a crashaholic in 2012. He improved a lot into 2013 - obviously he learnt with experience and improved his racecraft. But now in the beginning of 2018 his crashrate increased again. Why was that? Did he feel unexpectedly much pressure all of a sudden? Something else?

[Lights]

Season is not even over - We saw how Vettel kept it going and  won his first WDC in 2010 while the likes of Alonso, Lewis, Webber and Button collapsed. 

 

This is such nonsense. Had Vettel for example not stupidly crashed into his teammate in Turkey (more an entitlement issue than anything quality related) the story would've been how Vettel was leading the championship practically the whole season. Nothing to do with collapsing or pressure.

Edited by Lights, 04 September 2018 - 13:56.

[sopa]

This is such nonsense. Nobody made as many costly mistakes as Vettel did that year. Had Vettel for example not stupidly crashed into his teammate in Turkey (more an entitlement issue than anything quality related) the story would've been how Vettel was leading the championship practically the whole season. Nothing to do with collapsing or pressure.

 

Alonso's costly mistakes in 2010: China, Monaco, UK, Belgium. Maybe Australia start accident.

Vettel: Turkey, Hungary, Belgium. Maybe UK start accident.

 

Vettel doesn't really count as more here.

[LH44Fan]

I don't know if pressure is really such a big factor in Vettel's case.

He's making the same mistakes I've always seen him make, but this time he can't get away with it because the Ferrari is not dominant.

During the Red Bull dominance he was usually ahead of everyone, but when he has to go wheel-to-wheel, he makes mistakes.

He will lose the title to Hamilton and he will only have himself to blame.

 

I was on my way in here to post the exact same thing (apart from the last line) - I don't believe it's pressure related, Vettel has a ridiculous amount of experience with pressure. This is just the way he is. I haven't seen his driving improve (or worsen), just this is what i've observed he does since 2009.

 

He has amazing speed (like Nico) but lacks a tad when it comes to wheel-to-wheel and pace in non-standard conditions - i.e wet, damp, changing track, etc.

 

He also has a very very short temper which really hampers him and I hope he learns to control as it will help him eliminate a lot of errors (like ramming Lewis under the safety car - I literally could NOT believe my eyes).

[beachdrifter]

Also if we look at Grosjean. He was a crashaholic in 2012. He improved a lot into 2013 - obviously he learnt with experience and improved his racecraft. But now in the beginning of 2018 his crashrate increased again. Why was that? Did he feel unexpectedly much pressure all of a sudden?

 

The plan was to audition for the Ferrari seat.

[henke1972]

Somehow I think of Mansell...

[Eff1]

I think most WDC deal with pressure fine. Some make more errors than others, but then all of them have demonstrated tremendous resilience under pressure in the past.

Most of them have made errors during what we as an audience perceive as a critical moment in a championship - all of the recent champions have done it (Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, Rosberg, etc.)

All of them have equally put to bed the notion that they crack under pressure by performing under the most stressful of situations, take Hamilton Brazil 08/Fuji 07, Alonso Brazil 2012/Singapore&Korea 2010, Rosberg Abu Dhabi 2016, and Vettel Abu Dhabi 2010/Brazil 2012.

We have the habit of jumping on every driver mistake and attributing it to the pressure of the championship situation.....instead of taking it for what it is.....a driver error in a racing situation. **** happens when you are on the limit sometimes. Generally speaking these guys are driving from a very young age and have won many categories, I think they all generally carry themselves fine and I don’t think one driver deals with pressure significantly better than the other.