15036 replies to this topic

[NewMrMe]

7MGTEsup, on 25 Mar 2025 - 11:10, said:

Jacque Villeneuve has a ratio of 5.25 with all his wins coming in his first 31 races and taking part in 163. Is there anyone with a long career (More than 100 GP) that has a higher ratio than that?

 

Jo Bonnier too. He took part in 104 races. His only win was in his 16th. 5.5 ratio.

[PlatenGlass]

SenorSjon, on 25 Mar 2025 - 12:12, said:

Soon.

Soonoda?

[Brawn BGP 001]

Jacques Villeneuve never led a lap in F1 after winning his world title, a total of 130 GPs that's pretty wild mind you he was only in midfield cars from 98 onwards.

 

In his first 33 races, he led at least a lap in 20 of them.

Edited by Brawn BGP 001, 25 March 2025 - 15:20.

[DW46]

Didn’t lead a single lap post 97 but still had more wins to his name then all bar 3 of the current grid.

Underrated driver these days JV, largely due to poor career choices.

[Brawn BGP 001]

A big what if, is what if he joined McLaren back in 1999 like was rumoured, if only he didn't listen to Pollock. I think he drove very well in them early BAR days 1999-2001 argubally better than when he was at Williams.

 

DW46, on 25 Mar 2025 - 15:27, said:

Didn’t lead a single lap post 97 but still had more wins to his name then all bar 3 of the current grid.

Underrated driver these days JV, largely due to poor career choices.

Edited by Brawn BGP 001, 25 March 2025 - 17:54.

[KWSN - DSM]

Ronnie Peterson had 14 team mates.

[DW46]

Agreed, he could have won 99 with Schumacher out of the picture.

[PlatenGlass]

Villeneueve may have never led a lap in the lead post 97 but he did briefly lead at Canada in 1998. 25 minutes in.

[garoidb]

Nemo1965, on 25 Mar 2025 - 08:44, said:

By the way: I started wondering if Verstappen was not on his way to become the driver who had the most different teammates while he stayed at the same team? 

 

And the answer is: not by a long shot. Piquet had Lauda, Zunino, Rabaque, Patrese, Surer, Theo Fabi and Corrado Fabi. Seven of them in seven years. And only one won Grand Prix in those years...

 

Nelson also had Francois Hesnault for some races in 1985. Manfred Winkelhock drove alongside him in one of the last races of 1984 when the father of Teo and Corrado Fabi died. You could possibly also add John Watson as Nelson had a race or two as third driver for Brabham in 1978. 

[Nemo1965]

garoidb, on 25 Mar 2025 - 18:13, said:

Nelson also had Francois Hesnault for some races in 1985. Manfred Winkelhock drove alongside him in one of the last races of 1984 when the father of Teo and Corrado Fabi died. You could possibly also add John Watson as Nelson had a race or two as third driver for Brabham in 1978.

Oh wow. Totally forgot about Winkelhock and Hesnault!

[KWSN - DSM]

garoidb, on 25 Mar 2025 - 18:13, said:

Nelson also had Francois Hesnault for some races in 1985. Manfred Winkelhock drove alongside him in one of the last races of 1984 when the father of Teo and Corrado Fabi died. You could possibly also add John Watson as Nelson had a race or two as third driver for Brabham in 1978. 

 

Piquet 15.

 

John Watson

Niki Lauda

Ricardo Zunnino

Hector Rebaque

Ricardo Patrese

Teo Fabi

Corrado Fabi

Manfred Winkelhok

Francois Hesneault

Marc Surer

Nigel Mansell

Saturo Nakajima

Alessandro Nanini

Roberto Moreno

Michael Schumacher

[KWSN - DSM]

Who will count de Cesaris? He drove for 10 teams, must be a high number of team mates.

[KWSN - DSM]

Or maybe Chris Amon is way ahead of everyone?

 

[Risil]

I've heard of most of those drivers but I've never heard of Roelof Wunderink

[KWSN - DSM]

Risil, on 25 Mar 2025 - 18:38, said:

I've heard of most of those drivers but I've never heard of Roelof Wunderink

 

Me neither, yet he is legit.

 

https://en.wikipedia...oelof_Wunderink

[garoidb]

KWSN - DSM, on 25 Mar 2025 - 18:30, said:

Who will count de Cesaris? He drove for 10 teams, must be a high number of team mates.

 

The initial thought from Nemo1965 was about the number of team-mates while a driver stays at the same team (because of Max's high throughput of team-mates while at Red Bull). The overall number is an interesting statistic too but a different one and probably with different drivers at the top of the rankings. Even without thinking about it too much, the Chris Amon list looks difficult to beat! I'm not familiar with the website that generated it so I might have to generate Andrea's list the hard way! I wonder if he had many repeat partners along the way.

[KWSN - DSM]

garoidb, on 25 Mar 2025 - 18:46, said:

The initial thought from Nemo1965 was about the number of team-mates while a driver stays at the same team (because of Max's high throughput of team-mates while at Red Bull). The overall number is an interesting statistic too but a different one and probably with different drivers at the top of the rankings. Even without thinking about it too much, the Chris Amon list looks difficult to beat! I'm not familiar with the website that generated it so I might have to generate Andrea's list the hard way! I wonder if he had many repeat partners along the way.

 

Ahhh... I got caught up in the high numbers.

 

And now that I figured out where to find it, de Cesaris only 19.

 

[Collombin]

garoidb, on 25 Mar 2025 - 18:46, said:

the Chris Amon list looks difficult to beat! I'm not familiar with the website that generated it so I might have to generate Andrea's list the hard way!

That might be safer, the same website lists Prost and Bellof as teammates. My memory isn't what it was.

[Tim Murray]

We’re moving away from the original question set by Nemo1965, which was highest number of team-mates with one team. So Amon, Peterson, de Cesaris etc don’t fit the bill.

Nemo1965, on 25 Mar 2025 - 08:44, said:

By the way: I started wondering if Verstappen was not on his way to become the driver who had the most different teammates while he stayed at the same team?

[KWSN - DSM]

Tim Murray, on 25 Mar 2025 - 18:49, said:

We’re moving away from the original question set by Nemo1965, which was highest number of team-mates with one team. So Amon, Peterson, de Cesaris etc don’t fit the bill.
 

 

Is it  not ok to have the other discussion as well?

[Tim Murray]

Of course. But perhaps it should be made clear that this is a new, different discussion. 😁

Edit: I’ve only just spotted that Garoidb made the same point a couple of minutes before I did, so apologies for raising it again.

[KWSN - DSM]

Collombin, on 25 Mar 2025 - 18:48, said:

That might be safer, the same website lists Prost and Bellof as teammates. My memory isn't what it was.

 

We have talked about that before.

 

https://forums.autos...aren/?p=7277399

[ensign14]

Risil, on 25 Mar 2025 - 18:38, said:

I've heard of most of those drivers but I've never heard of Roelof Wunderink

To give you an idea of Mr Wunderink's talents, he was ditched by Ensign after he failed to qualify for the British Grand Prix, and replaced by Gijs van Lennep.  Who promptly scored Ensign's first-ever point in the next race (Germany).

[Collombin]

KWSN - DSM, on 25 Mar 2025 - 19:11, said:

We have talked about that before.

Interesting, but a different occasion to the one on that website, it connected them at Estoril 1984.

[JimmyClark]

In the last 20 grand Prix, Max has scored 337 points and his teammates have scored 49.

[KWSN - DSM]

Collombin, on 25 Mar 2025 - 20:03, said:

Interesting, but a different occasion to the one on that website, it connected them at Estoril 1984.

 

Somehow it is out there, here is a link more, a fandom one so likely form the same incorrect source the article had, the old information from the 2015 post does not hold it anymore - ChatGPT just told me Bellof was initially entered for Monaco 1984, then withdrawn. 

 

Think that does it for Bellof and me today.

[Dan333SP]

JimmyClark, on 25 Mar 2025 - 20:20, said:

In the last 20 grand Prix, Max has scored 337 points and his teammates have scored 49.

 

This is absolutely crazy IMO. What's the next closest teammate points ratio over that time horizon? Probably something skewed by one freak result for a low points total team. 

[GrzegorzChyla]

ensign14, on 25 Mar 2025 - 09:20, said:

Fangio had 8 in 1956 alone...

 

Farina had three in 1955 Argentina alone, and not just teammates bud driving the same car (or 2 cars to be exact)

[Collombin]

Dan333SP, on 25 Mar 2025 - 21:07, said:

This is absolutely crazy IMO. What's the next closest teammate points ratio over that time horizon? Probably something skewed by one freak result for a low points total team.

Is it that crazy? Ottomh Piquet must have done that to Rebaque and Zunino over a couple of seasons.

Edit - sorry, maybe you literally mean the last 20 races, rather than any 20. But in case you didn't I'll leave the post.

Edited by Collombin, 25 March 2025 - 21:27.

[Rob G]

Bleu, on 25 Mar 2025 - 09:30, said:

In his two stints at Ligier, Jacques Laffite had 10 team-mates:
Jarier, Depailler, Ickx, Pironi, Jabouille, Tambay, Cheever, de Cesaris, Streiff and Arnoux.

 

And Piercarlo Ghinzani had nine teammates in three stints at Osella: Gabbiani, Jarier, Corrado Fabi, Gartner, Danner, Berg, Caffi, Larini, and Bertaggia. But a key part of the question was "while he stayed at the same team". 

[JL14]

Lawson is replaced without ever having started a GP for RBR from the grid.

[7MGTEsup]

JL14, on 26 Mar 2025 - 06:36, said:

Lawson is replaced without ever having started a GP for RBR from the grid.

 

Lawson must also have the shortest stint for a contracted driver (main driver) at a top team. Not sure anyone has done less than 2 race weekends as one of the main drivers.

[Anderis]

JL14, on 26 Mar 2025 - 06:36, said:

Lawson is replaced without ever having started a GP for RBR from the grid.

The same happened to Markus Winkelhock at Spyker. What makes it even more outrageous is that Winkelhock led every GP he's ever participated in!

Edited by Anderis, 26 March 2025 - 10:48.

[Hrco42]

I was waiting for a last few races last year for this to happen so I could write about it, and then when it happened I forgot...

Norris' win in Australia in the first race of this season ended the streak of 15 races without the same winner in consecutive races (no driver won two races in a row).

I thought it might be a record, but it's not even close

 

Length of streak / seasons when it happened:

 

28 during 1982-83

23 during 1973-75

19 during 1977-78

18 during 1958-59 (minus 2 if you don't count Indy 500, but the streak would still stand at 16)

17 during 2011-12

16 during 2009-10

15 during 2012-13 and 2024

 

What's funny is that the previous 15 race streak in 2012-13 was followed by a 9 race Vettel win streak

[Spillage]

JL14, on 26 Mar 2025 - 06:36, said:

Lawson is replaced without ever having started a GP for RBR from the grid.

I believe he is also the first driver to be dropped after two races since Luca Badoer in 2009.

[SpaceHorseParty]

I checked to see if Tsunoda had driven the most races for Red Bull-era Minardi.

 

Tsunoda has 92 races (89 starts) in 2021–2025, but Gasly did 96 races for Toro Rosso/AlphaTauri in 2017–2022.

 

The only Minardi driver to drive more races for the team was Pierluigi Martini (117 races/102 starts).

[JimmyClark]

It's slightly mad to think that this summer Yuki will surpass Jackie Stewart's starts in F1. 

[Collombin]

Without wanting to take away from your underlying point, Stewart did have 23 non-championship F1 starts (30 including heats).

[PlatenGlass]

I think Red Bull-era Minardi is a good descriptor.

[JimmyClark]

Collombin, on 27 Mar 2025 - 14:55, said:

Without wanting to take away from your underlying point, Stewart did have 23 non-championship F1 starts (30 including heats).

 

I could counter that with Yuki's 18 sprint starts, but yes my underlying point is that I still see him as one of the youngsters in F1 yet this year he will surpass legends such as the likes of Stewart.

 

It just shows how many more races there are these days (and how much longer careers last).  

[PayasYouRace]

How many races in total, across all categories, did Jackie start in that period?

[Collombin]

PayasYouRace, on 27 Mar 2025 - 15:56, said:

How many races in total, across all categories, did Jackie start in that period?

Bearing in mind the possibility of omissions, I have 210 starts (238 including heats) from his 1964 Lotus F1 debut to the 1973 Canadian GP.

Edited by Collombin, 27 March 2025 - 16:08.

[Dan333SP]

Brawn BGP 001, on 25 Mar 2025 - 17:48, said:

A big what if, is what if he joined McLaren back in 1999 like was rumoured, if only he didn't listen to Pollock. I think he drove very well in them early BAR days 1999-2001 argubally better than when he was at Williams.

 

There's a new bring back V10s pod talking about what the 90s F1 landscape would have been like without Schumacher, I bet Glenn Freeman would wet himself if this scenario comes up as their resident JV fanclub president.  

[Dan333SP]

JimmyClark, on 27 Mar 2025 - 14:39, said:

It's slightly mad to think that this summer Yuki will surpass Jackie Stewart's starts in F1. 

 

Unless he's also kicked off the merry go round by RB and doesn't make it to the summer! 

[Dan333SP]

7MGTEsup, on 26 Mar 2025 - 10:28, said:

Lawson must also have the shortest stint for a contracted driver (main driver) at a top team. Not sure anyone has done less than 2 race weekends as one of the main drivers.

 

Senna only did ~62 racing laps for Williams before his accident in the 3rd GP of the season after DNF'ing the 1st 2 races, so in a racing miles driven sense Lawson actually lasted longer with a top team than Senna. 

[LiJu914]

Between November 2nd 1991 (Adelaide) and August 26th 1995 (Belgium) the amount of times Michael Schumacher was beaten by a teammate in qualifying is zero - that´s 56 GP-weekends in a row.

Which made me wonder: Are there any drivers with longer unbeaten streaks? I couldn´t find one for now, but i just randomly checked some "suspects".

Edited by LiJu914, 31 March 2025 - 09:56.

[Anderis]

LiJu914, on 31 Mar 2025 - 09:55, said:

Between November 2nd 1991 (Adelaide) and August 26th 1995 (Belgium) the amount of times Michael Schumacher was beaten by a teammate in qualifying is zero - that´s 56 GP-weekends in a row.

Which made me wonder: Are there any drivers with longer unbeaten streaks? I couldn´t find one for now, but i just randomly checked some "suspects".

Russell has 56 as well if I counted correctly- from his 1st GP in Australia in 2019 to Mexico 2021, his streak ended in Sao Paulo 2021 where Latifi was 16th and Russell was 17th.

[7MGTEsup]

Dan333SP, on 28 Mar 2025 - 14:51, said:

Senna only did ~62 racing laps for Williams before his accident in the 3rd GP of the season after DNF'ing the 1st 2 races, so in a racing miles driven sense Lawson actually lasted longer with a top team than Senna. 

 

I thought about that situation but didn't want to go down the route of drivers who were unable to fulfill their contract for terminal reasons.

[SenorSjon]

Anderis, on 31 Mar 2025 - 10:00, said:

Russell has 56 as well if I counted correctly- from his 1st GP in Australia in 2019 to Mexico 2021, his streak ended in Sao Paulo 2021 where Latifi was 16th and Russell was 17th.

 

We had a lot of race fuel and single lap qualy mess that really made that stat hard to keep in the noughties.

[DW46]

Anderis, on 31 Mar 2025 - 10:00, said:

Russell has 56 as well if I counted correctly- from his 1st GP in Australia in 2019 to Mexico 2021, his streak ended in Sao Paulo 2021 where Latifi was 16th and Russell was 17th.

Beaten by Bottas in Sakhir?