192 replies to this topic

[LH44Fan]

Evening Racefans,

 

So as a lot of us wind down after the days fun the argument is still raging on with Merc fans insisting the Fezza is the fastest and vice versa - Vettel is adamant he has the fastest car and Lewis agrees with him but what say you?

 

This poll would help get a general consensus and hopefully reduce a little of the bickering this year.

 

To help put things into perspective:

 

Ferrari Poles - 6

Mercedes Poles - 7

 

Ferrari Victories - 5

Mercedes Victories - 6

 

Ferrari Podiums - 17

Mercedes Podiums - 17

 

Ferrari Mechanical DNF - 0

Mercedes Mechanical DNF - 2

 

This isn't about Team or Drivers, please just focus on the car - imagine you have unlimited funds/connections as a driver and got offered both cars for this season, which would you want to be in (is probably a fair way to answer the poll question).

[jwill189]

Fairly equal on the chassis side, but Ferrari has a noticeable power advantage.  I'd definitely want the Ferrari.

[Trust]

I would take Lewis's car.

[engineblock1]

I would say over single lap, Ferrari is still faster than Merc (most of the times). However, it looks in race trim they are evenly matched.

Both cars in clean air have demonstrated they can post faster laptimes than the other.

It also appears Merc probably manages its tires better than Ferrari. Most of the times on radio, Hamilton is seldom heard saying they are gone.

[FullOppositeLock]

Fairly equal on the chassis side, but Ferrari has a noticeable power advantage.  I'd definitely want the Ferrari.

 

Agreed, although the power advantage seems mainly in qualifying mode. In race mode there's not much between them. I'm afraid for Ferrari where they are lacking is in the quality of their driver pairing. For me Vettel is no longer amongst the very top tier drivers in the field as strange as that sounds to say about a four times world champion. He should have won last year's title and failed to do so due to his own mistkes, and it's looking very much like history repeats this year. Here's hoping Leclerc steps up for them or they will end up regretting not taking Ricciardo or Alonso when they could, or pushing harder to get Max in.

[pit5bul]

Its circuit dependent but Ferrari is the overall faster car , take away driver errors or strategic errors and do the math.. Ferrari ends up way higher than they are now.

[cheekybru]

I just think when Kimi is on same laptime as Lewis and fighting him in races it's obvious

Ferrari/Seb should be 70 points clear not 40 behind

[THEWALL]

Whichever the rival of your fav driver has...

[monolulu]

Thought Lewis had won 7 races? 🤔

Edited by monolulu, 16 September 2018 - 21:17.

[Lights]

The Ferrari was the car to have at most tracks so far. But it's hard to say if that's because it's fundamentally better, or if they maximized their potential speed more often than Mercedes.

[romaincrouton]

It’s an interesting question, after testing and quali in Australia I thought merc looked locked in on its 5th championship in a row without question, but Ferrari have definitely been on top in the development race and at times this season have left Toto and Hamilton wondering what would bring them back in contention. Where as Ferrari look like they know they’re under delivering.

I don’t think Ferrari has an outright race pace advantage as Sunday’s have always looked closer, and I think if I had to chose a car I’d want it would be the fezza because on its day and dialed in, it looks untouchable.

[pacificquay]

Depends on the circuit and the circumstances

[JG]

Mercedes have the better car obviously.

[uraharakisuke]

It's close but clearly Ferrari.

[Massa_f1]

Its fairly even. and on some occasions Ferrari can be very fast.

 

How anyone can think this years Ferrari is dominant though. I think is laughable especially after 3 years of complete domination by Mercedes. 

[JonnyJ]

For me:

Australia: Clear Merc (Q&R)
Bahrain: Clear Ferrari (Q), Ferrari Edge ®
China: Clear Ferrari (Q), Equal ®
Baku: Clear Ferrari (Q), Ferrari Edge ®
Spain: Clear Merc (Q&R)
Monaco: Ferrari Edge (Q&R)
Canada: Ferrari Edge (Q), Clear Ferrari ®
France: Clear Merc (Q), Merc Edge ®
Austria: Clear Merc (Q), Merc Edge ®
Silverstone: Ferrari Edge (Q), Clear Ferrari ®
Germany: Clear Ferrari (Q&R)
Hungary: Equal (Q), Ferrari Edge ®
Belgium: Equal (Q), Clear Ferrari ®
Italy: Ferrari Edge (Q), Equal ®
Singapore: Ferrari Edge (Q), Equal ®

Qualifying:

Ferrari outright - 4
Ferrari edge - 5
Merc outright - 4
Merc edge - 0
Equal - 2

Race:

Ferrari outright - 4
Ferrari edge - 4
Merc outright - 2
Merc edge - 2
Equal - 3

Overall:

Ferrari outright - 8/30
Ferrari edge - 9/30
Combined - 17/30
Merc outright - 6/30
Merc edge - 2/30
Combined - 8/30
Equal - 5/30

(scored out of 30 as 15 races, 2 sessions (Q&R))

So out of the 30 sessions, Ferrari has had an upper hand in 17, Merc 8 and equal in 5.

Outright means pretty much unchallengable, edge means tight enough that strategy/mistakes/brilliance can come into play.

Edit: Forum appears to turn ( R ) into a rights reserved icon you get the idea

Edited by JonnyJ, 16 September 2018 - 21:30.

[EndlessMotion]

It's been for the most part fairly equal over the season with different circuits playing to the strengths of each car. But for more of the season the Ferrari has been the quicker car. Not total domination by any stretch but it's most definitely had the edge over Mercedes for more races than Mercedes have been on top.

 

Looks like Merc are having a late resurgence after Ferrari began to establish itself as the quickest package for a number of races and it might just be enough to take all now. Last year it was the opposite, very close between the two but ultimately the Mercedes was the quicker car over the course of the season.

[RPM40]

Ferrari without question. Also had better reliability, Hamilton has had a failure in a race and a failure in qualifying (two failures in quali?). Plus a grid drop. 

 

Id say in terms of driving considering all factors Lewis is ahead by around 70-80 points this year if you equalised the hardware.

[THEWALL]

It doesn't matter: let's bash Vettel!

[Zilbert]

Kimi retired in Spain due to an engine issue.

[BuddyHolly]

a little pointless?

 

Merc fans will say Ferrari is better, Ferrari fans will say Merc is better and everyone else will say they are equal.

[TomNokoe]

Merc in their sweet spot is the class of the field.

[RacingGreen]

It looks to me that the Ferrari has more power in qualifying mode and perhaps slightly more in the race (although this isn't as apparent at some circuits as the chassis are both excellent) but any advantage is being lost through driver errors and some strange strategy calls. I've said it before but I honestly believe on this season's form Lewis would be leading the WDC in either car. 

[LH44Fan]

Thought Lewis had won 7 races?

 

Got it off the stats-f1 site, guess they haven't accounted for today yet 

 

Still, we're almost at season-end now, we have a large enough sample of races/qualifying sessions to assess the 2 leading cars this year.

[1Devil1]

It doesn't matter: let's bash Vettel!

 

But didn't you read the instructions. It's only a car vs car thread 

[RacingGreen]

Both are among the ugliest generation of cars I can remember (without penis / step noses that is). 

[THEWALL]

But didn't you read the instructions. It's only a car vs car thread 

Wrong, it's a religion thread...

[P123]

It's changes race by race with both involved in a fairly fierce development battle. Easy to forget that Ferrari had 3 poles in a row early in the season, and but for a bodge in the final turn at Baku it would have been three front row lockouts on the bounce too. The 'Ferrari faster' has been a thing lately, mainly due to their advances on the engine side, but it hasn't really come together for them for a variety of reasons despite having either matching or superior pace. But Mercedes aren't exactly mugs either, and Singapore may be another turning point. As to who will be faster in Russia... no idea.

[1Devil1]

It’s an interesting question, after testing and quali in Australia I thought merc looked locked in on its 5th championship in a row without question, but Ferrari have definitely been on top in the development race and at times this season have left Toto and Hamilton wondering what would bring them back in contention. Where as Ferrari look like they know they’re under delivering.

I don’t think Ferrari has an outright race pace advantage as Sunday’s have always looked closer, and I think if I had to chose a car I’d want it would be the fezza because on its day and dialed in, it looks untouchable.

 

Can't underline that at all. When Mercedes was 'on' like the last years the gap was massive to Ferrari. Ferrari had the clearly better car at some races, but the gap was never that huge. In the end the discussion is tiresome and driven by fans from one or the other driver. If you just look at the drivers and see the mistakes Vettel made this year. Lewis was better that's all we need to know. Nobodys needs those narratives that people change even decades later. Like the Ferrari vs. McLaren 2007/2008 debate - people talked about tight matchup back then, but here you can read how much superior Ferrari was those years. 

[P123]

Both are among the ugliest generation of cars I can remember (without penis / step noses that is).

The Ferrari still has the thumb tip and lego block nose, which doesn't help it's looks. The Merc would likely look great without the halo, although it's still a bit of a limo.

[AlexFone]

It looks to me that the Ferrari has more power in qualifying mode and perhaps slightly more in the race (although this isn't as apparent at some circuits as the chassis are both excellent) but any advantage is being lost through driver errors and some strange strategy calls. I've said it before but I honestly believe on this season's form Lewis would be leading the WDC in either car.

I think if you offered Ferrari the choice between Hamilton and Seb they would bite your hand off and choose Hamilton.

When the pressure is on he consistently delivers where as Seb has a bit of a self destruct mode but I do think he is trying to manage the politics within Ferrari where as at RB he just turned up and drove.

[sabjit]

I think so far this season Ferrari have been quicker but I think Merc will be faster from here on out.

[geralt]

Australia - Merc

Bahrain - Ferrari

China - Ferrari

Baku  - Ferrari

Spain - Merc

Monaco - Ferrari

Canada - Ferrari

France - Merc

Austria - Merc

Silverstone - Merc

Germany - Ferrari

Hungary - Ferrari

Spa - Ferrari

Monza - Ferrari

Singapore - Merc

 

By my count, Ferrari's been faster than Mercedes in 9 out of the 15 tracks we've been to. If we take reliability into account on which was the best package, though, Austria also goes to Ferrari

[Poz85]

Let's be honest here, put your hands up if you forgive the halo because of the blistering speed of these machines. 🕺

[cheekybru]

Ever since they added the graphic overlay I forgot the halo

The noise I will never forget

[l2k2]

For me:

Singapore: Ferrari Edge (Q), Equal ®

 

Just looking at the last row, I wonder based on what data. I would say: Singapore: Mercedes, clearly both Q&R.

 

Basically, Hamilton could pull a gap at wish in the race. Like almost a second a lap in reserve, or maybe even more.

 

And, in the Q. We had multiple Ferrari laps withing a few tenths... usually this is a sign of being quite close to the limits of the car. (And, even the slow Bottas could make it to that speed.)

 

Basically, Ferrari could not extract as much pace from the HS as the two other big teams. There must have been a reason why they had so different warm-up laps... and not just the drivers not knowing how to drive slowly to preserve rubber for the hot lap...

[NixxxoN]

To make it short and simple - I'd say about equal and Hamilton is better than Vettel thats why he's ahead in the championship

[P123]

For me:

-----
So out of the 30 sessions, Ferrari has had an upper hand in 17, Merc 8 and equal in 5.

Outright means pretty much unchallengable, edge means tight enough that strategy/mistakes/brilliance can come into play.

Edit: Forum appears to turn ( R ) into a rights reserved icon you get the idea

Broadly agree with your list, although Spain quali was quite close (did Ferrari not use a harder compound?) so equal; in Silverstone they had an edge only IMO, and Singapore will likely prove contentious!

[JonnyJ]

Just looking at the last row, I wonder based on what data. I would say: Singapore: Mercedes, clearly both Q&R.

Basically, Hamilton could pull a gap at wish in the race. Like almost a second a lap in reserve, or maybe even more.

And, in the Q. We had multiple Ferrari laps withing a few tenths... usually this is a sign of being quite close to the limits of the car. (And, even the slow Bottas could make it to that speed.)

Basically, Ferrari could not extract as much pace from the HS as the two other big teams. There must have been a reason why they had so different warm-up laps... and not just the drivers not knowing how to drive slowly to preserve rubber for the hot lap...

Vettel certainly thought they could've got pole and he did out qualify VB, who is no slouch in Q. If you watch the lap comparison Vettel was neck and neck with Lewis until a lock up before the esplanade bridge that cost him loads, in that corner and the full straight. In the race we only really got to see the first stint then Ferrari made a bad call going for the US that Vettel had to nurse. Raikkonen was all over VB and on a different circuit would have finished in front.

Happy to say its contentious though. Just my opinion on things.

Edited by JonnyJ, 16 September 2018 - 22:03.

[Poz85]

I think the importance of track position is massive here, if Vettel jumped Hamilton at the start he would have won the race comfortably IMO.

[MasterOfCoin]

Its fairly even. and on some occasions Ferrari can be very fast.

 

How anyone can think this years Ferrari is dominant though. I think is laughable especially after 3 years of complete domination by Mercedes. 

I think the OP asked who has the faster car........not which car is dominant....  

[AustinF1]

I voted equal on average, but I think the Merc is quicker right now. They seem to have figured out a lot re: the rear tire temp problems that have been slowing them all year.

[Mercstar]

Ferrari have had the better overall package for the most part this season.

Edited by Mercstar, 16 September 2018 - 22:34.

[peggle]

Ferrari have the better package by a fraction now however Mercedes have Hamilton, 

[SonGoku]

Vettel could have won the first three races if China didn't go wrong for him, Hamilton's first win was in Baku. I think that says it all. Ferrari has the better engine and had the better car the most races and even Vettel says that.

[BalanceUT]

After initially the Mercedes having a slight power advantage, but tire management problems (couldn't get them to good operating temperature and keep them there), Ferrari came roaring back with much better single lap power advantage and generally a race day power advantage. BUT, Mercedes has fixed their tire management problems and Ferrari's tire issues seem to be getting worse. Therefore, I vote the cars are essentially equal. At this point, I doubt Ferrari can find any advantage to put on the machine that could lead to a challenge to Mercedes for either championship. 

[Marklar]

Car: Ferrari
Everything else: Mercedes

[Ben24]

Vettel could have won the first three races if China didn't go wrong for him, Hamilton's first win was in Baku. I think that says it all. Ferrari has the better engine and had the better car the most races and even Vettel says that.

Except that Mercedes would have won both Australia and China without a safety car (Bottas would have won China) and possibly should have won Bahrain too. 

[Atreiu]

The Ferrari seems faster. I don't recall a single weekend in which it seemed unsettled and no set up worked. On the contrary, on paper, Vettel is always there and has always been a favourite. The Mercedes still had some diva weekends and those where they were saved by a combination of dumb luck, happenstance and incredible driving. Like Hockenheimm or the Q3 shower at Hungaroring, or Monza. How many things had to go right for Lewis to simply have a chance to win?

 

It's not a huge difference, but it's noticeable.

Edited by Atreiu, 17 September 2018 - 12:49.

[TheFlyingFinn]

 

Australia - Merc

Bahrain - Ferrari

China - Ferrari

Baku  - Ferrari

Spain - Merc

Monaco - Ferrari

Canada - Ferrari

France - Merc

Austria - Merc

Silverstone - Merc

Germany - Ferrari

Hungary - Ferrari

Spa - Ferrari

Monza - Ferrari

Singapore - Merc

 

By my count, Ferrari's been faster than Mercedes in 9 out of the 15 tracks we've been to. If we take reliability into account on which was the best package, though, Austria also goes to Ferrari

 

How was Ferrari faster at Monza exactly? Did you even watch that race? Hamilton had clearly much better pace all race than either of the Ferraris.