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#1 Salsin

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 23:14

Reading various people asking for info. on all sorts of topics reminded me of something.

What has happened to this Archive? I recall that, after Martin Hadwen's death in 2010, I read that it was being moved to premises at the Snetterton circuit?

Is it still there? Has it been moved to another of MSV's locations? I don't see MSV promoting it as a historical research archive.

 

I would be sad to think it has just "vanished" as I was instrumental in organising the transportation of bulky collections from a number of donors over to Martin in Norfolk. After meeting Martin at a "do" at Snetterton, he told me that his big problem was physically moving "stuff" from A to B. The company I worked for at the time had a motor sport enthusiast MD and we had vans visiting private homes (as distinct from business premises) all over the country. The MD agreed that, providing it didn't involve a van going too far off its planned route, we could pick up from the donor, bring back to our HQ, store temporarily in our warehouse and then deliver to Martin when we next had a van going up the A11 towards Norwich. It worked well and I even recall persuading my wife a few times that she would like a day out when we had a donor who was keen to offload material quickly and before we had a van scheduled to visit that area. I recall everything from books, magazines, brochures, photos, entry lists etc. etc. Pretty well everything was donated by private individuals although I do recall us collecting from Thruxton on one occasion when they were having a clear-out.

Has anyone any knowledge about it?

Mike Dodman.



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#2 D-Type

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 19:00

I wondered what had happened - I didn't know about Martin Hadwen's death.



#3 Rupertlt1

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 17:58

The silence is ominous.

We had a bunch of incompetent do-gooders here in Canada. Due to improper storage the finest collection of Canadian motor sport memorabilia, much of it irreplaceable, was destroyed by some very stupid people.

You have to look to the USA to see how it can be done.

The International Motor Racing Research Center, in Watkins Glen, New York, is an exemplar. This grew as an offshoot of the public library. Rumour has it that they received a wedge of cash resulting from the McLaren fine in the Spygate affair. Another breathtaking document and photograph collection is at the Revs Library in Naples, Florida.

Silverstone are allegedly contemplating something similar. Can't these folks get together and offer an archive that is worthy of British motor sport?

 

RGDS RLT



#4 Tim Murray

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 18:06

There was an earlier thread asking the same question:

Motor Sport Archive

but again no real info was forthcoming.

#5 Salsin

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 19:37

Just a thought.

I wonder if anyone from MotorSportVision monitors this forum and whether MSV would like to give us an official response?

Mike Dodman



#6 john winfield

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Posted 16 October 2018 - 07:35

Just a thought.

I wonder if anyone from MotorSportVision monitors this forum and whether MSV would like to give us an official response?

Mike Dodman

Good question Mike.

I wonder whether space in the soon-to-be vacated Donington Collection buildings could be allocated for development of the Archive. Donington has reasonable transport links and, of course, a racing legacy.

Any thoughts, MSV?



#7 Garsted

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Posted 17 October 2018 - 15:49

I enquired of MSV in June 2015 and got this reply:-

 

"The Archive is not currently available for public use. It is our intention to bring back to use but the process is proving somewhat protracted.

 

I am sorry we cannot help at this time."

 

I will ask again

 

Steve



#8 Rupertlt1

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Posted 01 November 2018 - 23:18

There is a pattern that emerges in all this. Well-intentioned folk scoop up valuable material and then by a set of chances make it unavailable to everybody else. People that have donated material feel duped, researchers looking forward to better days, have been disappointed and deprived.

On a wider point TNF has been going for some while, but without any systematic output. My approach is to reinforce success, hence time spent contributing to the heroic efforts of Martin Krejci to document race results, captioning photographs at Revs and assisting single marque experts with research. Hill climb histories are also an interest (documenting Firle Hill Climb played a part in the Revival - it reminded folk of what they had lost). 

Much remains to be done. I think of UK racing where there are still large gaps in our knowledge of what took place at circuits in the fifties and sixties, on up to modern times. Some great researchers are thwarted simply because they do not have access to the right information.  We can do better. I want to reach the widest audience possible. 

What is happening at Silverstone?

 

RGDS RLT


Edited by Rupertlt1, 01 November 2018 - 23:26.


#9 Vitesse2

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 07:42

And just to lay down another marker, when the Haynes Motor Museum in Sparkford was redeveloped a few years ago, an archive was promised there too.



#10 Rupertlt1

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 12:28

Before we get too fed up it is worth remarking on a couple of good sources in England:

 

- the museum at Gaydon has Motor and Autocar in their archive which are easily accessible.

 

- the B.A.R.C. at Thruxton has programmes, some B.A.R.C. Gazettes (plus some random rare photographs which needed digitising when I was there). Make an appointment.

 

RGDS RLT

 

P.S. Prescott very good source. Also try Shelsley Walsh..


Edited by Rupertlt1, 02 November 2018 - 12:56.


#11 DCapps

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 12:59

There is a pattern that emerges in all this. Well-intentioned folk scoop up valuable material and then by a set of chances make it unavailable to everybody else. People that have donated material feel duped, researchers looking forward to better days, have been disappointed and deprived.

On a wider point TNF has been going for some while, but without any systematic output. My approach is to reinforce success, hence time spent contributing to the heroic efforts of Martin Krejci to document race results, captioning photographs at Revs and assisting single marque experts with research. Hill climb histories are also an interest (documenting Firle Hill Climb played a part in the Revival - it reminded folk of what they had lost). 

Much remains to be done. I think of UK racing where there are still large gaps in our knowledge of what took place at circuits in the fifties and sixties, on up to modern times. Some great researchers are thwarted simply because they do not have access to the right information.  We can do better. I want to reach the widest audience possible. 

What is happening at Silverstone?

 

RGDS RLT

 

Rupert,

 

You make some very pointed, valid points that span many of the long litany of issues that plagues the study of motor sport history. I, for one, certainly appreciate the yeoman's work you are doing to help a wide variety of people and organizations with their research.

 

As you suggest, with the information available, it is somewhat difficult to develop knowledge of the topic....

 

HDC



#12 RobMk2a

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 14:05

Rupert, 

 

The VSCC library in Chipping Norton has copies of Autosport, Motor, Motor Sport, Autocar and a number of early publications and various books.

 

The volunteer librarians will do a search but its probably best to visit. 

 

I understand that the Beaulieu archive has more info / photos but I've not visited yet. 

 

Rob 


Edited by RobMk2a, 02 November 2018 - 14:05.


#13 Vitesse2

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 15:40

I haven't been to Beaulieu for some years, but they have Autocar, Motor and Light Car (the last only up to 1940 and post-1945; Gaydon has the wartime issues). However, their copies of the earlier years are in awful condition, due to heavy use. And their reading room charges are eye-watering!

 

For anyone wishing to consult good quality pre-1948 issues of Autocar and Motor, I'd recommend the Library of the Institute of Mechanical Engineers in London. Lovely people, very helpful! And free to use - they do charge for photocopies, but raised no objection to me using my own scanner. Do book what you want in advance as the stuff has to be retrieved from the basement. The library's catalogue is online - they have lots of interesting stuff!



#14 RS2000

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 16:31

There is a pattern that emerges in all this. Well-intentioned folk scoop up valuable material and then by a set of chances make it unavailable to everybody else. People that have donated material feel duped, researchers looking forward to better days, have been disappointed and deprived.
RGDS RLT


Yes. There is an element of distrust and concern that some archives held by key figures who are no longer in the first flush of youth (including some major figures from works competition history) may get into the hands of the wrong people. "Wrong" includes some supposedly reputable "one make" clubs, who guard data unnecessarily closely (claiming to be protecting against "replicas" but in reality concealing known replicas passed off as original vehicles).
The problem for anyone holding unique data is where to gift it prior to their demise.

Can we please change the thread title to motorsport rather than racing?

Edited by RS2000, 02 November 2018 - 16:33.


#15 Doug Nye

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 23:20

When I was researching the history of the British GP for a book project I was young, naive (Doug Naive) and felt confident that the RAC would have preserved all of its original race documentation, copies of the duplicated in-race press bulletins, practice times, race results, the whole kaboolah.   I asked the friendly RAC Press Office people in Pall Mall and was assured that oh yes, their library held everything I could possibly want to know.  

 

This was terrific news so I reported to the RAC in Pall Mall and was directed to the library.  There I was shown...shelves containing bound volumes of...'Autosport', 'Motor' and 'Autocar'.  There you are, I was told triumphantly, there is everything you could possibly want in there...

 

My goodness me - I actually had at home more published reference than they had there.  When I asked about original documentation, entry forms, scrutineering and timing records etc, i was just greeted with blank looks.  The concept alone seemed to mystify them completely.  "Ooh no", I was told, "We never keep any of that stuff...".

 

I told them that they should start keeping it, right then.

 

But I suspect my entreaty fell upon deaf ears.

 

However - the BRDC does have quite a good archive and library in the old Abbey farmhouse at Silverstone, and it has grown and been pretty well re-organised in recent years.  The picture is not all uncomprehending indifference...or at least...not quite.

 

DCN



#16 RobMk2a

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 08:55

When I was researching the history of the British GP for a book project I was young, naive (Doug Naive) and felt confident that the RAC would have preserved all of its original race documentation, copies of the duplicated in-race press bulletins, practice times, race results, the whole kaboolah.   I asked the friendly RAC Press Office people in Pall Mall and was assured that oh yes, their library held everything I could possibly want to know.  

 

This was terrific news so I reported to the RAC in Pall Mall and was directed to the library.  There I was shown...shelves containing bound volumes of...'Autosport', 'Motor' and 'Autocar'.  There you are, I was told triumphantly, there is everything you could possibly want in there...

 

My goodness me - I actually had at home more published reference than they had there.  When I asked about original documentation, entry forms, scrutineering and timing records etc, i was just greeted with blank looks.  The concept alone seemed to mystify them completely.  "Ooh no", I was told, "We never keep any of that stuff...".

 

I told them that they should start keeping it, right then.

 

But I suspect my entreaty fell upon deaf ears.

 

However - the BRDC does have quite a good archive and library in the old Abbey farmhouse at Silverstone, and it has grown and been pretty well re-organised in recent years.  The picture is not all uncomprehending indifference...or at least...not quite.

 

DCN

Doug,

 

I visited the RAC Club in London about 2 years ago and received the same response, as again they seemed to believe they had everything either in the library or searchable online. When I pointed out this was not the case ( I was looking for RAC Rally entry documents) and asked more questions the librarian finally admitted that there is a 'store' somewhere in Victoria. However, it appears that this is not accessible. Maybe you could speak to Ben Cussons to see if he can make the information available to researchers? 

 

Rob 



#17 Allan Lupton

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 09:33

Can it be that the store "somewhere in Victoria" is in the Belgrave Square premises where the RAC Comps. Dept. once was?

 

Anent Silverstone, a few years/decades ago BRDC was assembling a complete set of race programmes (and probably other documents). I seem to recall being contacted by someone (Martin Grant-Peterkin I think) who had been hired to do the work to see if I had some of the Eight Clubs programmes he was short of. I had and donated them on the understanding that they would give me photocopies for my records which I duly received. I assume that whatever was collected at that time hasn't been thrown out but I've no idea what sort of access there is.


Edited by Allan Lupton, 07 November 2018 - 09:40.


#18 Kvadrat

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 09:57

This was terrific news so I reported to the RAC in Pall Mall and was directed to the library.  There I was shown...shelves containing bound volumes of...'Autosport', 'Motor' and 'Autocar'.  There you are, I was told triumphantly, there is everything you could possibly want in there...

 

My goodness me - I actually had at home more published reference than they had there.  When I asked about original documentation, entry forms, scrutineering and timing records etc, i was just greeted with blank looks.  The concept alone seemed to mystify them completely.  "Ooh no", I was told, "We never keep any of that stuff...".

 

 

Someone here at TNF also told a story of how he tried to access FIA archives ringing at the door of their Paris office and was told that's impoossible and advised to make a request at their Swss office.