136 replies to this topic

[thefinalapex]

Ticktum out? brilliant, serves him right with his big mouth. Overtaking half the field and ignoring countless of yellow flag to crash a guy of on purpose.. the asia f3 wich was in his eyes below his level but then managed to not win it.. Priceless. I hope its the last we hear from this cocky boy. 

Edited by thefinalapex, 27 June 2019 - 23:53.

[Marklar]

So, apparently Ticktum is out of Super Formula and set to be replaced by…

Pato O’Ward.

Huh. I did not see that one coming.

https://t.co/NujjNrC0sn?amp=1

Now officially confirmed by Marko https://twitter.com/...3007125504?s=19

[statman]

does that mean he will stop doing Indycar or can he combine that for now?

[muramasa]

Ticktum dropping is strange, totally out of blue, they had been pushing and investing in him quite heavily for good duration and he tested F1 in RBR in Bahrain only recently, sure he's not doing too good in SF but it's the first year with brand-new chassis, new environment for Ticktum, only few races done for the category that has just 7 or 8 races per season, etc etc so you would give drivers full season no matter what I guess.  I wonder if the reason is not about performance itself but something else like couldnt or not willing to acclimatize to SF/Japan environment, personal issue b/w Marko or Red Bull program, or even showed some attitude that is not so good, sort of attitude that made RB trigger instant sacking.

[Anja]

does that mean he will stop doing Indycar or can he combine that for now?

 

I think his time in Indy is over for now, he didn't have any funding for more races anyway. 

[Silberpfeil]

Ticktum dropping is strange, totally out of blue, they had been pushing and investing in him quite heavily for good duration and he tested F1 in RBR in Bahrain only recently, sure he's not doing too good in SF but it's the first year with brand-new chassis, new environment for Ticktum, only few races done for the category that has just 7 or 8 races per season, etc etc so you would give drivers full season no matter what I guess. I wonder if the reason is not about performance itself but something else like couldnt or not willing to acclimatize to SF/Japan environment, personal issue b/w Marko or Red Bull program, or even showed some attitude that is not so good, sort of attitude that made RB trigger instant sacking.

I would not be surprised to learn Ticktum had been on shaky ground for some time now. His mediocre showings in Super Formula and the way he essentially blames the car and, by extension, the team for his latest disaster of a weekend might have been the straw(s) that broke the camel’s back.

Marko seems to have a rather severe reaction to drivers trying to shift the blame elsewhere at the moment – see also his recent comments on Gasly and Newey.

[SenorSjon]

His Asian F3 winter campaign was poor as well and he didn't even finish it, just like the 2nd half of 2018 in F3 was not great, hardly getting on the podium anymore. So bad year = out.

[DanardiF1]

I would not be surprised to learn Ticktum had been on shaky ground for some time now. His mediocre showings in Super Formula and the way he essentially blames the car and, by extension, the team for his latest disaster of a weekend might have been the straw(s) that broke the camel’s back.

Marko seems to have a rather severe reaction to drivers trying to shift the blame elsewhere at the moment – see also his recent comments on Gasly and Newey.

 

It could be a team issue... Mugen won the title last season with Yamamoto who is again bossing it this year in Dandelion's car as well, but the second car that Ticktum drove briefly but also had Nirei Fukuzumi with F2 experience driving it didn't score a single point last season. Maybe Team Mugen doesn't have the resources to run two top cars, even with Red Bull backing the second one?

 

Nojiri who replaced Yamamoto in the Mugen car scored a decent result in the first race but has been pretty rubbish in the last two, despite having a pretty decent recent history in Super GT with ARTA, so perhaps Mugen isn't the place to be right now for Super Formula?

 

I do think there must have been some other issues that made RB take the decision to drop Ticktum, but I don't see how parachuting Pato O'Ward into Super Formula in the same Mugen car is really going to make that much difference? He's talented sure but I don't know if taking him straight out of Indycar and moving him over to Japan is really going to achieve that much at least this year...

Edited by DanardiF1, 07 July 2019 - 14:45.

[muramasa]

It could be a team issue... Mugen won the title last season with Yamamoto who is again bossing it this year in Dandelion's car as well, but the second car that Ticktum drove briefly but also had Nirei Fukuzumi with F2 experience driving it didn't score a single point last season. Maybe Team Mugen doesn't have the resources to run two top cars, even with Red Bull backing the second one?

 

Nojiri who replaced Yamamoto in the Mugen car scored a decent result in the first race but has been pretty rubbish in the last two, despite having a pretty decent recent history in Super GT with ARTA, so perhaps Mugen isn't the place to be right now for Super Formula?

 

I do think there must have been some other issues that made RB take the decision to drop Ticktum, but I don't see how parachuting Pato O'Ward into Super Formula in the same Mugen car is really going to make that much difference? He's talented sure but I don't know if taking him straight out of Indycar and moving him over to Japan is really going to achieve that much at least this year...

"Team issue" is always there as teams forms ebb and flow, recent years Dandelion has been mediocre but this year relatively doing good, Nakajima Racing has been rather nearer to the bottom but this year seeing a bit of resurgence (could well be down to drivers), etc but Mugen is practically Honda works so in terms of resources they have no issue. SF has only 7-8 rounds per year so it's inherently harder to judge teams/drivers forms by just one season, plus this year is the first year of brand new chassis so things are not stable yet.

 

Ticktum hasnt been doing too good, but as stated above it's just too early to judge him, and it's not like he has been totally and hopelessly off the pace at all so it's rather strange to remove him from SF seat after only 3 races, even more so when/if he's dropped from Red Bull altogether.

[Danyy]

"Team issue" is always there as teams forms ebb and flow, recent years Dandelion has been mediocre but this year relatively doing good, Nakajima Racing has been rather nearer to the bottom but this year seeing a bit of resurgence (could well be down to drivers), etc but Mugen is practically Honda works so in terms of resources they have no issue. SF has only 7-8 rounds per year so it's inherently harder to judge teams/drivers forms by just one season, plus this year is the first year of brand new chassis so things are not stable yet.

 

Ticktum hasnt been doing too good, but as stated above it's just too early to judge him, and it's not like he has been totally and hopelessly off the pace at all so it's rather strange to remove him from SF seat after only 3 races, even more so when/if he's dropped from Red Bull altogether.

 

Red Bull have enough data by now to judge him, it’s not like they just took him on this year. They clearly saw he wasn’t progressing enough whether it’s in this series or the work he did for them outside of it.

Edited by Danyy, 07 July 2019 - 16:48.

[DanardiF1]

"Team issue" is always there as teams forms ebb and flow, recent years Dandelion has been mediocre but this year relatively doing good, Nakajima Racing has been rather nearer to the bottom but this year seeing a bit of resurgence (could well be down to drivers), etc but Mugen is practically Honda works so in terms of resources they have no issue. SF has only 7-8 rounds per year so it's inherently harder to judge teams/drivers forms by just one season, plus this year is the first year of brand new chassis so things are not stable yet.

 

Ticktum hasnt been doing too good, but as stated above it's just too early to judge him, and it's not like he has been totally and hopelessly off the pace at all so it's rather strange to remove him from SF seat after only 3 races, even more so when/if he's dropped from Red Bull altogether.

 

You would know more than I on the details of the domestic teams, but certainly in results and from what I've seen in watching Super Formula properly the last two years or so is that Mugen doesn't seem to be in too great a position now. You're right that the form of the teams does fluctuate somewhat, TOM's don't look as imperious in Super Formula as they have done before, Dandelion has got stronger in recent seasons up to now seemingly being near unbeatable in combination with Yamamoto, but I can't help but think that Ticktum had been put in a difficult position somewhat with the team he has been assigned to in SF and where they are in the pecking order right now.

[muramasa]

You would know more than I on the details of the domestic teams, but certainly in results and from what I've seen in watching Super Formula properly the last two years or so is that Mugen doesn't seem to be in too great a position now. You're right that the form of the teams does fluctuate somewhat, TOM's don't look as imperious in Super Formula as they have done before, Dandelion has got stronger in recent seasons up to now seemingly being near unbeatable in combination with Yamamoto, but I can't help but think that Ticktum had been put in a difficult position somewhat with the team he has been assigned to in SF and where they are in the pecking order right now.

It could be that at this very point Mugen may not be up to it yet relatively in understanding this brand new chassis, but M-TEC (Mugen) is the supplier commissioned by Honda to provide all the machinery (car, engine, parts) and services to all Honda teams (including themselves in Mugen) in SF and SGT, also manufactures custom parts for Honda's commercial cars, so M-TEC = Mugen is tech company while other teams are just racing team to receive and run the cars. So of all the possibilities lack of resource is least likely or quite impossible. They had been fielding only one car before Gasly, but actually that's because they themselves are provider. When Gasly entered in 2017 they expanded to run two cars, Gasly immediately delivered (while it took 3 rounds for him to be up there) and annihilated his teammate (Yamamoto). 

 

Again for sure it could be Mugen is not in good state, for now for short/temp term yeah, but in longer term no, they have always been Honda's front team and will always be. If you race in SF for Honda, Mugen is always the first definite team you might want to join, followed by Dandelion. But you cannot always expect to be in the team when they are on top/usual form, also again it's not like he has been totally hopeless so you cannot judge anything unless you fulfill one season at least. He might start to deliver from round 4 or 5 like Gasly/Vandoorne/etc did, who knows. So for me it looks strange and brutal even for Red Bull standard to drop him like this, but I dont know, it could really be performance reason, or attitude reason like generally said (seems quite a few fellow Brits fans see issues in his character/attitude, but something like that is hard to judge for me when you are not the same nationality).

[Danyy]

I would not be surprised to learn Ticktum had been on shaky ground for some time now. His mediocre showings in Super Formula and the way he essentially blames the car and, by extension, the team for his latest disaster of a weekend might have been the straw(s) that broke the camel’s back.
Marko seems to have a rather severe reaction to drivers trying to shift the blame elsewhere at the moment – see also his recent comments on Gasly and Newey.

Yes he was already on shaky ground for the Schumacher comments. Red Bull and Marko especially will not accept those kind of excuses for being beaten. Super Formula was his last chance saloon to put up or shut up. It felt more like a matter of when not if they would get rid of him.

[messy]

I’m not sure whether it was more about the Schumacher comments, or the fact that Schumacher actually beat him on track.

All due respect to Mick, his F2 performance so far does not suggest he’s the next Leclerc. So Ticktum being beaten and then venting his frustration with conspiracy theories, all point to that putting him under a lot of pressure. He needed to win F3 for them to take him seriously, but everything since (the superlicence winter series debacle onwards) has been a complete mess. Matter of time.

Interesting how in SF some of the rookies (Auer, Makino, Palou) have taken to it like a duck to water, while the two highest profile in Ticktum and Markelov, have been sh*te.

[muramasa]

　　

Palou clinched maiden win at Fuji the 4th round with superb performance throughout the weekend

He's defo impressive, very smart and mature too, he'll have bright future, hope opportunities beyond SF open up for him.

 

Cassidy had great race too, he just keeps impressing

 

Kamui surging from P19 to P6 was stunning

 

O'ward did well considering all the circumstances and difficult wet condition throughout the weekend

 

 

 

 

https://superformula...4/results-race/

 

[DanardiF1]

Rumours of Naoki being given FP1 time in a Toro Rosso at some point this year, Suzuka would make most sense.

[TF110]

　　

Palou clinched maiden win at Fuji the 4th round with superb performance throughout the weekend

He's defo impressive, very smart and mature too, he'll have bright future, hope opportunities beyond SF open up for him.

 

Cassidy had great race too, he just keeps impressing

 

Kamui surging from P19 to P6 was stunning

 

O'ward did well considering all the circumstances and difficult wet condition throughout the weekend

 

 

 

 

https://superformula...4/results-race/

Kamui passed so many cars, he was driver of the race for me.

[jonpollak]

Being a Pato fan I feel I should pay attention here.
When is the next race ?
Jp

[balage06]

Being a Pato fan I feel I should pay attention here.
When is the next race ?
Jp

 

Way too early in the morning.

[DanardiF1]

Being a Pato fan I feel I should pay attention here.
When is the next race ?
Jp

 

Motegi on the 18th August.

[HistoryFan]

Japanese Autosport magazine reports that Team Carlin might participate in Super Formula by introducing European made NRE engine in 2020.

[ANF]

From earlier today. Quite enjoyable strategy-wise.

[juicy sushi]

No idea what Sekiguchi was playing at with the last lap pitstop, but Kobayashi and Hirakawa put in excellent drives.

I realize Kobayashi is the main driver for Toyota’s WEC effort, but a Cassidy-Kobayashi pairing in Super GT would sure be something to see.

[Marklar]

Vips will replace O'ward for the final race https://twitter.com/...0477652992?s=19

[messy]

Strange this season to see all the Red Bull juniors passed around SF from pillar to post....Ticktum in, Ticktum out, O'Ward in, O'Ward out, Vips in...

 

Add Markelov and Charpentier (remember him?) to the 'here today gone tomorrow' group.

 

All the while, the series regulars have just got on with it. 

[KWSN - DSM]

Red Bull is fumbling for the next one who can step up to F1, Ticktum did not have it, which were obvious to most before it dawned on Red Bull, O'Ward does not have it which was clear before he raced a single meter. Yips makes so much more sense than the two of them.

 

[messy]

Red Bull is fumbling for the next one who can step up to F1, Ticktum did not have it, which were obvious to most before it dawned on Red Bull, O'Ward does not have it which was clear before he raced a single meter. Yips makes so much more sense than the two of them.

 

 

I think that's pretty harsh on both Ticktum (dominant Macau GP win last year, reportedly mainly dumped for personality and attitude reasons) and O'Ward who's looked highly promising in America. 

 

Vips, he started very well in F3 this year but did fade somewhat and has never convinced me as a 'racer' - quick yes, but not seen much else yet.

[noikeee]

I think that's pretty harsh on both Ticktum (dominant Macau GP win last year, reportedly mainly dumped for personality and attitude reasons) and O'Ward who's looked highly promising in America. 

 

Vips, he started very well in F3 this year but did fade somewhat and has never convinced me as a 'racer' - quick yes, but not seen much else yet.

Idk, I've not seen as much F3 this season as I wanted to, but the bits I saw Vips struck me as pretty much the opposite, not super outstandingly quick but can consistently get to the finish in high positions through survival. I watched the blunder in one of the final few races running into the back of Lundgaard though.

[HistoryFan]

It's too difficult to jump into Super Formula.More difficult than Formula 2 for example.

[messy]

Idk, I've not seen as much F3 this season as I wanted to, but the bits I saw Vips struck me as pretty much the opposite, not super outstandingly quick but can consistently get to the finish in high positions through survival. I watched the blunder in one of the final few races running into the back of Lundgaard though.

 

I think when he's started in the pack he's often struggled to make much headway. That's the impression I've had of him, anyway. 

 

Assessing young drivers on TV isn't an exact science I guess.

[BRG]

Seems the most consistent 'Red Bull' driver in Superformula is RB ace designer Adrian Newey's son, Harrison.

 

Except he isn't a Red Bull driver.  

Edited by BRG, 18 October 2019 - 15:47.

[KWSN - DSM]

I think that's pretty harsh on both Ticktum (dominant Macau GP win last year, reportedly mainly dumped for personality and attitude reasons) and O'Ward who's looked highly promising in America. 

 

Vips, he started very well in F3 this year but did fade somewhat and has never convinced me as a 'racer' - quick yes, but not seen much else yet.

 

Macau is a stand alone race, the myth of which makes it indicative of more than it really is. Ticktum failed in F3, not by being a poor driver, merely by not being as good as he was once thought. O'Ward I am sure is a good driver, he is however not as good as his reputation make him out to be, and there is nothing about him sayin 'F1 for Red Bull'.

 

And looking at Vip's career now... he does not really seem that special either...

 

[ANF]

Here is the season finale from earlier today.

Spoiler

Congrats to Nick Cassidy for a well deserved title!

[BRG]

Some odd stuff going on at Suzuka.  Why was Kobayashi sent to the grid on wets when the sun was out and the track was bone-dry?  Rookie Vips looked OK but it is Red Bull's Lucas Auer who has shown the way home all season to RB's juniors.  

 

You have to admire the Japanese.  A 20 car grid completes a long race without a single collision, safety car, disregard of a flag signal, cynical closing of the door, or any of the antics we so love in F1, F2, F3 etc.  No wonder these drivers are being overlooked for the big time.  Cassidy was quoted as saying that what he had learnt form racing in Japan was to respect the rules and be honest.  So he wouldn't fit in at Red Bull F1.

[pacificquay]

Some odd stuff going on at Suzuka.  Why was Kobayashi sent to the grid on wets when the sun was out and the track was bone-dry? 

 

It was to get round a rule requiring the use of a particular compound in the race which doesn't apply if you run wets

[ANF]

According to this report, "the reason for Palou's dramatic loss of pace was traced to an intercooler tube that had become loose and tangled up inside the car's right-rear suspension" which was "blocking airflow to the diffuser, costing Palou an estimated 70kg of downforce - causing his laptimes to plummet and his tyres to wear out faster".
https://www.motorspo...lained/4589109/

[messy]

Cassidy is a driver I’d love to see at some stage benefit from a quirky situation within Red Bull a la Hartley.