175 replies to this topic

[Andrew Hope]

This has nothing to do with anything, other than that I am one of those people technically alive but too young to pay attention in the early 90s (April 1991 I came out of Mom like Zanardi on Herta, time travelling doctor's words), so I spend a lot of time on YT watching old timey racing from the Prost/Nuvolari days, because that's fun.

So I'm in a late 80s/early 90s mode recently and - knowing nothing - it seems Nigel Mansell was every bit the motherf****er Prost & Senna were. Is this true?

What is the consensus on his IndyCar adventure?

Was he really too fat to fit in a race car? (I hear that Nige)

I don't know anything about the moustache either. Please update me.

Edited by Andrew Hope, 18 November 2018 - 00:01.

[messy]

A few years ago this strange woman appeared from nowhere and latched herself onto my uncle. My uncle is a lovely man, too lovely really, and she began coming to family weddings, funerals, visiting us with my uncle, claiming to be some sort of long lost relative even though none of us knew who the actual **** she was. She constantly went on about herself, made increasingly ridiculous efforts to crowbar herself into family memories, and generally was really annoying until she just vanished as quick as she arrived.

The point? When she found out that I was into motor racing, she claimed she used to go out with Nigel Mansell. She told me loads and loads of stories about what a lovely man he was, all utterly vague and utterly untrue. But every time I think of Nigel Mansell, I think of this strange, self obsessed and annoying random crackpot who once tried to join my family. Memories.

[as65p]

A few years ago this strange woman appeared from nowhere and latched herself onto my uncle. My uncle is a lovely man, too lovely really, and she began coming to family weddings, funerals, visiting us with my uncle, claiming to be some sort of long lost relative even though none of us knew who the actual **** she was. She constantly went on about herself, made increasingly ridiculous efforts to crowbar herself into family memories, and generally was really annoying until she just vanished as quick as she arrived.

The point? When she found out that I was into motor racing, she claimed she used to go out with Nigel Mansell. She told me loads and loads of stories about what a lovely man he was, all utterly vague and utterly untrue. But every time I think of Nigel Mansell, I think of this strange, self obsessed and annoying random crackpot who once tried to join my family. Memories.

 

That piece as answer to the OP question has almost literary quality, Even more so if you made it up, which for that reason I can only hope. Great stuff!

[Collombin]

My father was a genuine bona fide Brummie.

Upon me telling him that Nigel Mansell identified as a Brummie, he threw me out. I was only the messenger.

[jonpollak]

Met him in Detroit back in 86 and again when I was the Lightning Director for the Goodyear F1 exhibit at the NEC in Birmingham in 95.

The man had the strongest handshake I have ever experienced.
Jp

[MrAerodynamicist]

Amazingly fast but only if his head was in the right place. You don't go from 12th on the grid at the Hungaroring to winning it, overtaking both Prost and Senna on-track, without a bucket-load of talent. But his two year Indycar career showed the issue; he won it the first year but in the second year, the Lola wasn't remotely as good as the Penske, he got in the wrong head-space and he ends up the third best Lola driver.

By all accounts not always easy to be around but I get the sense in a high-maintenance drama way rather than being an a-hole-with-malice.

Edited by MrAerodynamicist, 17 November 2018 - 22:38.

[DS27]

More high maintenance than my other half, but that first year in Indycar showed that he had bags full of talent and huge bravery. Shame Our Nige was such a drama queen, but I really rooted for him at the time.

 

Regarding the moustache, it is a historical fact that without it, certain small mammals from the UK would have gone extinct.

Edited by DS27, 17 November 2018 - 22:56.

[KnucklesAgain]

Met him in Detroit back in 86 and again when I was the Lightning Director for the Goodyear F1 exhibit at the NEC in Birmingham in 95.

The man had the strongest handshake I have ever experienced.
Jp

 

I am now even more in awe of you than I was anyway

[JtP2]

Has any top racing driver ever lugged as much baggage in his head?

[Fatgadget]

Met him in Detroit back in 86 and again when I was the Lightning Director for the Goodyear F1 exhibit at the NEC in Birmingham in 95.

The man had the strongest handshake I have ever experienced.
Jp

Lightning director?

[Cornholio]

Full disclosure - the man was my childhood hero.

 

However, I've always made a habit of taking people as I find them. And the only time I've met him person was at the 2000 Silverstone historic festival. I queued for his autograph, and when I got it, he asked my name, how I was, shook my hand (a proper handshake too), and of all the ex-drivers I met that day, one of the most approachable and down to earth.

 

Maybe I caught him on a good day, but the whole "never meet your heroes" thing didn't apply that day.

[red stick]

Lightning director?

Mere mortals do lighting. Explains the awe.


It would not shock me to find that Egypt bans JP from getting any nearer than ten miles to the Red Sea . . .

Edited by red stick, 18 November 2018 - 00:05.

[red stick]

Has any top racing driver ever lugged as much baggage in his head?

Judging from a recent Marshall Pruett podcast, Michael Andretti may be coming up fast . . .

[Widefoot2]

Judging from a recent Marshall Pruett podcast, Michael Andretti may be coming up fast . . .

Link?  Sounds interesting...

[red stick]

https://marshallprue...rmula-1-season/

[Loosenut]

They had to modify the cockpit of his 1995 McLaren to accomodate his balls..

If the internet had been around then, he probably would have remotely killed a lot of people with outrage. At the time tho, we only gave a s*** about what he did when his visor was down and his mouth was shut..

[Tim Murray]

Mansell’s problems in fitting into the 1995 McLaren were due to his very broad chest and shoulders. He was not ‘too fat to fit’.

[DarthWillie]

If memory serves me well, also a black belt karate. And reserve police officer Of the island of man.

As a driver, a teamboss once said: if you put prost and mansell in a car without testing Nigel will be quicker. Let them test and fine tune the car and prost is your man. I believe that. R

[kumo7]

well good luck boys, I am dead already. 

[skid solo]

An old fashioned hero with a bucket load of talent and raw courage in the car in an era where you needed big balls and huge strength to muscle those mad machines around a track. No one had bigger balls than Nigel according to his team mate Ricardo Patrese. He was plagued by bad luck throughout his career and should have had at least 3 championships. Outside of the car he was apparently a drama queen but it was the era of drama queens. Senna and Piquet weren’t much better. He was the kind of driver that always made something happen in a race. Greatest moments? Winning in Hungary from 14th on the grid? Clawing back 20+ seconds at silverstone on Piquet and overtaking him to win? Going round the outside of Berger in Mexico through Peraltada? Monaco 92? There were many

Edited by skid solo, 18 November 2018 - 09:06.

[midgrid]

Mansell dominates the 1992 Mexican Grand Prix. During the press conference:

Journalist: It looked fairly easy; was it?

Mansell: (tips head back) Ha ha ha, no, it wasn't!

[nmansellfan]

As you can judge from my username, I was a fan of the man with a 'tache, although I've never met him in person. I started watching GP racing in '86 and he was often the most exciting driver on track - this in an era of a lot of very quick drivers. He would quite often pull off a fantastic overtaking move or charge through the pack - but for him to be 'on it', the motivation had to come from the belief in his head that he'd been wronged and he was going to show them (whether that be his team, his team mate, another driver or even his own car) that he could overcome all odds to beat them. Many times you wouldn't even know that there was a reason, even when we won from pole in a healthy car - until the post race interview, where he revealed a car or tyre issue that he managed to overcome with great difficulty.

How much truth there was to the story of his race a lot of the time, I'm not really sure, and looking back at old races I am much more cynical than I was as a young fan! However it doesn't change the fact that he was as quick as Prost or Senna on his day, and brave beyond belief sometimes.

[F1matt]

He deserved more than one title. Seriously talented racing driver who was rarely in the right place at the right time apart from 1992. The 1994 season would have been very interesting if Williams/Rothmans/Renault could have got him out of the Indy car contract.

[PhantomRaspberryBlower]

So I'm in a late 80s/early 90s mode recently and - knowing nothing - it seems Nigel Mansell was every bit the motherf****er Prost & Senna were. Is this true?
 

 

Yes. Massive testicular fortitude, never took any crap from anyone on-track - least of all Senna - and the British public loved him for it. Should have had the 86 and 87 championships too. Here endeth the lesson.

[cpbell]

According to Newey in his autobigoraphy, Mansell had such upper-body strength that he routinely bent steering columns.  By all accounts, the engineers tested them on rigs to determine the safe maximum load they could withstand, and they couldn't work out how he deformed them, as the load required was massive.  It's probable that it was his broad, heavy physique that made him struggle with fatigue and with getting down to the requisite weight - he was more of a 100 metre sprinter than an endurance athlete.  He tended to give up later in his career when the car wasn't competitive, whereas, before he won the F1 and Indy championships, he was so driven to win that he put in several performances in which effort overcame any gap in talent to others (though he was, I think, more talented than we thought at the time).

[FW13]

Nigel was an absolute first rate F1 driver, 1987, 88 and 89 show that. The 87 and 88 Silverstone races are good examples.

In 1994 he basically filled Brands Hatch when TESTING the Williams!

None of the above though prevents him being a shallow, insecure bully. I think this is why he doesn’t get the credit his talent deserves.

[Boing 2]

He was immensely brave, he broke his neck in FFord yet kept on racing and won the championship, broke his back in F3 yet signed himself out of hospital to go test an F1 Lotus after being offered a test drive (this was during the zero suspension movement, ground effects era....). In I think his first F1 race his fuel tank leaked high octane, aviation fuel into his seat, he drove for 40 laps until his car retired with first degree burns to his backside. He injured his back again at Suzuka in 87. In 93 he crashed at the Pheonix oval hitting the wall at 170mph, hard enough to punch a hole through the concrete with his gearbox. He suffered concussion and required surgery on his back,  he was at the next race but his injury left a gap in his back muscle which had to be drained of fluid before a race by syringe and treated with painkillers. He led his next oval race and won the race after it.

 

In terms of skill some will say he was outclassed by the Prosts and Senna's of the grid, others point to his oval pace and wet weather speed as signs of inherent technical talent, there are stories of laziness in testing from many but also tales of him returning to Williams in 90 and finding a second a lap by altering Boutsens race setup. Hard to tell from the outside but when he was 'On' by Christ he was electrifying to watch, in a wheel to wheel battle I think he was one of the few drivers Senna never dominated psychologically. His Hungary charge and pass of Senna, his Silverstone pursuit and pass of Piquet, wheel to wheel down the Barcelona straight with Ayrton, a last lap round the outside pass of Berger at the Peraltada a 360 spin, flat out at Imola before rejoining, boot straight back to the board and back to a charge are all a part of F1 legend. He and Alesi scrapping at Suzuka in failing light and torrential rain in 94 with next to no visibility was sensational to watch, had the 95 McLaren been a race winner I think he still had a title fight left in him.

 

He could and arguably should have been a 2 times World Champion possibly even a three times but got unlucky, had he stayed on for 93 you could even argue the chance for four.

 

Weaknesses? he needed constant attention and praise, in his biography he spoke of his father as a huge figure in his life but of him being reluctant to offer warmth or praise, you don't need to be a shrink to figure out what drove the constant need for praise out of the car. He made silly mistakes at times and threw away results and was paranoid about being politically outmaneuvered by certain team mates. When he lost interest he dropped off, he was not a metronomic competitor like an Alonso or Schumacher.

 

Jackie Stewarts 003 Tyrrell was my first favourite toy F1 car but it was Mansell in 640 Ferrari that plunged F1's hooks into my heart, I wouldn't want to be stuck beside him on a long haul flight but nothing ever excited me more in F1 than hearing Murray declare ".....and Mansells on a charge!"

Edited by Boing 2, 18 November 2018 - 15:38.

[B Squared]

I wouldn't want to be stuck beside him on  along haul flight

Your post sums up many things to like about Mansell. I do disagree with this part; he was very friendly and gracious to me the few encounters I had with him when I worked for CART. Even more telling was him spending nearly 20 minutes with my brother and his wife in the driver area parking at Michigan in 1993 early in the day for the 500 miler, which he won despite vomiting in his helmet during the race. He signed a few fabulous F1 photos my brother had of him in Ferraris and Williams' and was more than happy to chat to a knowledgeable fan. Possibly going in with the pre-conceived attitude that the guy is a dick, or fat or lazy or a head case might make the actual experience of meeting him (or others) not so pleasant - simply because that is the experience you were in search of.

Jp - in regards to his handshake; if you want to re-experience a mammoth grip, go to an RM auto auction and introduce yourself to my ex-boss and good friend, Donnie Gould (also a vintage racecar owner/driver and huge fan of the sport), he'll give Nigel a run for his money on digital grip every time.

https://rmsothebys.c...ie-gould/238892

Edited by B Squared, 18 November 2018 - 15:40.

[OO7]

If memory serves me well, also a black belt karate. And reserve police officer Of the island of man.

As a driver, a teamboss once said: if you put prost and mansell in a car without testing Nigel will be quicker. Let them test and fine tune the car and prost is your man. I believe that. R

I think Mansell also carried quite a significant weight penalty over Prost.

[Fatgadget]

I think Mansell also carried quite a significant weight penalty over Prost.

Primarily due to size of his gonads!

[Collombin]

Primarily due to size of his gonads!

I think he had a particularly heavy moustache. Remember how surprisingly quick he was at Rio in 1988 just after losing it? It all makes sense now.

[Maustinsj]

My missus’ dad bought a Land Rover off him.

That is all.

[Spillage]

Mansell was beaten pretty handily by Prost at Ferrari. He was definitely a fantastic driver, though I don't think he was on Prost and Senna's level.

[stewie]

Lightning director?

Jp probably just had a rig full of strobes 

[LBDN]

Mansell was beaten pretty handily by Prost at Ferrari. He was definitely a fantastic driver, though I don't think he was on Prost and Senna's level.

Yep.

He was good but definately not great.

Still, he created drama which made things interesting to watch.

[messy]

That piece as answer to the OP question has almost literary quality, Even more so if you made it up, which for that reason I can only hope. Great stuff!

Fraid it's actually 100% true story. I even asked my mum about it when I saw her today as it reminded me about her!

To give an actual answer to the OP, I grew up and got into F1 just as Mansell's career was ending. By the time I started getting into it, I knew Mansell was a big deal but never actually saw him race live (unless you count GP Masters!). Except once. The 1998 BTCC round at Donington Park where he was this massive celebrity presence in a Ford Mondeo, crashed on one race and if I remember right held his neck, face contorting in pain, and almost won the other in a deluge of rain. By the sounds of it, the full Mansell experience condensed into one afternoon really. I did however watch a vid of the 1987 (?) British GP around that same time, watching his battle with Piquet and found it awe inspiring the way he just rose to the occasion roared on by the fans. I wish I'd seen that live, but alas I was a baby so wouldn't remember even if I did because I was probably too busy trying to eat play dough.

Edited by messy, 18 November 2018 - 16:52.

[red stick]

. . .

Still, he created drama which made things interesting to watch.

 

There's good drama and bad drama.  In his late career it was too frequently the latter.

 

But I should definitely try to find 1993 CART races on You Tube.  There's no denying his talent.

[LBDN]

There's good drama and bad drama. In his late career it was too frequently the latter.

But I should definitely try to find 1993 CART races on You Tube. There's no denying his talent.

True.

I wasn't a fan of him when he was racing and nor was he particularly liked in the local area either when he had retired.

[jonpollak]

Damn Otto Korrect.
I meant ‘enlightening’

Jp

[absinthedude]

High maintenance, carried a lot of emotional baggage....not quite from the same top drawer as Prost and Senna....but on his day quicker than anyone else on the track including the aforementioned. Piquet even eventually admitted Mansell was faster than he, and that Nigel should have taken the 1987 title....that is something coming from one of the most big-headed characters ever to grace F1. 

 

Mansell was perhaps the "grittiest" driver in F1 in that he'd always race as hard as he could. I think a big part of the reason why he endeared himself to so many, including  myself is that he never gave up. I remember his first grand prix, soaked in petrol due to a leak in the cockpit...but he only gave up when the car gave out on him. Had to be helped out because his hamstrings had been shortened and he'd suffered chemical burns to his bum and undercarriage. Came from average beginnings and worked his way up to the very top. Suffered injuries and poor luck on his way to those magical 1992 and 1993 seasons.....during which he was perhaps the finest racing driver in the world bar none. 

 

However he could be difficult. Not in the bad tempered way, but he would often have a small accident and then sit in the car a while as if he was hurt. Prof Watkins, knowing Nigel had suffered neck/spine injuries in F3 would be concerned, rush over and find that Nige was just being Nige....and that second Indycar season he wasn't fun to be around according to Mario Andretti.

 

Was he too fat for the McLaren? Just look at footage at San Marino 1995 where he's in a circle with all the drivers remembering Senna and Ratzenberger. There are aerial shots that show it's his shoulders that are wider than any other driver's....not his belly. The man had a huge neck and huge shoulders which is why he could hustle a car around a track quite literally like nobody else. Watch Mexico 1990 and his "impossible" overtake of Berger outside the Peraltada. Probably no other driver on the grid that day had either the balls or the shoulder muscles to achieve that move. 

[noikeee]

Mansell was beaten pretty handily by Prost at Ferrari. He was definitely a fantastic driver, though I don't think he was on Prost and Senna's level.

Also by Elio, and Keke the first half of 85.

Results suggest there's a different Mansell pre his first win in 85 (Brands Hatch?) and after. One was a pretty mediocre driver, the other became a consistent front running star. Something clicked in terms of motivation with that first win, perhaps?

[Huffer]

Mansell’s problems in fitting into the 1995 McLaren were due to his very broad chest and shoulders. He was not ‘too fat to fit’.

 

Aye - oddly enough, my father in law has the exact same issue and this has nothing to do with him being a chubby German. Or so he claims. 

[Grippy]

'Red 5', 'Mansell Mania', 'El Leone' - good times.

I remember him as a brave racer who had bad reliability and huge crashes. but was very fast in a decent car.

He did it the hard way working multiple jobs and re-mortgaging his house to get to F1 and eventually break the 16 years British WDC drought.

I see him as a self-confident introvert without a management team that allowed his team-mates to take advantage (tales of Prost getting their Ferraris swapped, Honda engines swapped, etc), once he put his foot down at Williams and got No.1 driver status he got a WDC.

The heartbreak of Murray's commentary with the tyre blow-out when he only needed fourth for the WDC, collapsing while pushing his out-of-fuel car over the line, chasing Senna at Monaco,  stalling while waving to the crowd while cruising to a win, a fight with Senna in the pits and then in another race giving him a lift back to the pits.

Held the CART and F1 championships at the same time and still has a few records in F1.

 

Murray poking him on his bruised forehead

Trying to get his sponsor's cap on screen when interviewed on the BBC (no adverts).

Not fitting in an early 'size '0'' McLaren.

Crashed his quad bike off a cliff but jumped clear just before it plummeted.

The Red Arrows stayed at his place in Woodbury so we'd get a fly-past.

 

A steering wheel so small his team-mates found it unusable, and a 'tache that acted as a second front wing!

[boillot]

Aye - oddly enough, my father in law has the exact same issue and this has nothing to do with him being a chubby German. Or so he claims.

He also does not fit in the 1995 McLaren?

[Thursday]

Mansell should have been my boyhood hero. British television certainly tried to make him that but I never warmed to him.

He wasn't as good as Prost or Senna and even as a child I tired of his drama queen interviews and treating to retire if he didn't get a good car,  but over the years I have realised that he was better than I gave him credit for at the time.

There can be little doubt that he was a fast and hard racer but he has always seemed to have an inflated view of his own talent, he was good but not the best.

People forget talk about his F1 and Indycar careers but forget about his (rather poor) BTCC entry.

 

I've heard it said that when things were going well he was a very nice person to be around, when things aren't going well he was a complete arse and things often don't go well in motor sport so he must have been a complete arse a lot of the time.

In an interview Patrick Head said that he wished he could just helicopter Mansell into the car, let him drive, and then helicopter him back out again. It was also clear that Head preferred Mansell over Prost and Claire Williams chose him as her favourite Williams driver.

 

An ex-colleagues sister lives in Jersey and used to work for the Mansell foundation. If Nige was asked to do an event such as an after dinner speech he would charge the going rate but the payment would go straight to charity.

It's hard to dislike someone that does that. 

[PayasYouRace]

Like messy above, I just missed his career live. It was Murray’s Magic Moments on VHS that gave me an appreciation for what Nigel was all about. I think Murray Walker summed it up rather well when he described Mansell as never being short of “guts and determination” and “a fearless racer”.

Now everyone remembers obvious stuff like Silverstone 87, Hungary 89 or Mexico 90. But there are others that showed his quality too. The unreliability of the Williams in 88 robbed him of many good results but those two second places he did grab were quality drives too. That is, Silverstone in the wet and Jerez holding back the faster McLaren.

When Montoya came along later I felt he was the closest thing to Nigel in modern F1 at the time.

[PlatenGlass]

I think Mansell also carried quite a significant weight penalty over Prost.

I think this is an important point, and I think it's often overlooked that before 1995 (I think) the minimum weight limit was just for the car. The driver was just an extra, so the lighter the driver, the faster he went.

And when you consider the effect of a few laps of fuel (in the refuelling era) and how much it slowed you down, the penalty of being a heavier driver would have been significant, and the benefit of being light also. I think if someone did the calculations, then drivers like Mansell (in one direction) and Prost (in the other) might be looked at in a different light. What if I said to you good people that Mansell might actually have been better than Prost? I won't go as far as Senna though.

[chr1s]

I think Mansell also carried quite a significant weight penalty over Prost.

yes, that was the enormous chip on his shoulder!

[Collombin]

We don't adjust for physical advantages/disadvantages in other sports, so why should we in F1? I could argue that I would be a Pro Bowl calibre offensive lineman if only I weighed twice as much.

[LBDN]

We don't adjust for physical advantages/disadvantages in other sports, so why should we in F1? I could argue that I would be a Pro Bowl calibre offensive lineman if only I weighed twice as much.

Removed. I see what you meant. Apologies

Edited by LBDN, 18 November 2018 - 21:45.