91 replies to this topic

[ensign14]

Fisher built a rounded-off rectangle that was more Narrangansett Park in form than Brooklands.  It was the way things had been going though ever since the Circuit des Ardennes.  But of the literal thousands of circuits built over the period, I don't think any copied Brooklands. 

[ernestomodena]

What is the definition of iconic is it the corners, the history or simply people could name the track by a pict.

 

Corners:

Suzuka first part is iconic.

Laguna sega corkscrew

Bathurst the part down hill between the walls.

Spa eau rouge

 

History

Indianapolis

Daytona

Assen

Le Mans

Nurnbergring

Monaco

 

There are just to many iconic tracks out there. I get the naming of silverstone still not my favorite track to drive on a sim. That in oposition of the above that I really love to drive on sims. Or in in the case of daytona in real life.

[Ivanhoe]

ernestomodena, on 04 Feb 2019 - 16:27, said:

What is the definition of iconic is it the corners, the history or simply people could name the track by a pict.
 
Corners:
Suzuka first part is iconic.
Laguna sega corkscrew
Bathurst the part down hill between the walls.
Spa eau rouge

I’d add Istanbul turn 8

[ClubmanGT]

Beri, on 04 Feb 2019 - 10:47, said:

In no particular order:

Spa Francorchamps
Nordschleife
Indianapolis
Circuit de la Sarthe
Mount Panorama
Potrero de los Funes Circuit
Clemond Ferrand
Silverstone
Monte Carlo
Monza

 

This is going to sound weird but swap Clemont Ferrand with Circuit Gilles Villeneuve and that's basically my list. 

[Beri]

ClubmanGT, on 04 Feb 2019 - 18:30, said:

This is going to sound weird but swap Clemont Ferrand with Circuit Gilles Villeneuve and that's basically my list.

I can understand that. Quite surprised to see you choosing Potrero de los Funes Circuit as well.

[CoolBreeze]

In no particular order:

 

Suzuka, Spa, Nurburgring...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the rest...

[absinthedude]

ensign14, on 04 Feb 2019 - 15:39, said:

Fisher built a rounded-off rectangle that was more Narrangansett Park in form than Brooklands.  It was the way things had been going though ever since the Circuit des Ardennes.  But of the literal thousands of circuits built over the period, I don't think any copied Brooklands. 

 

He is on record as saying that it was visiting Brooklands which made up his mind to build a banked oval. That is incontrovertible. 

[MattK9]

ernestomodena, on 04 Feb 2019 - 16:27, said:

Corners:
Suzuka first part is iconic.
Laguna sega corkscrew
Bathurst the part down hill between the walls.
Spa eau rouge

I would add maggots beckets and chapel. The modern day 5 corner version is more iconic than the old 3 corner layout.

[Konsta]

RacingGreen, on 03 Feb 2019 - 07:31, said:

Speaking as an Australian I'll go alone with Doohan and assure you that here at least Bathurst is number 1 on the list by a very long way. I'd go as far as saying that for many equate motor racing with Bathurst and that the average man in the street has never heard of Indianapolis, Suzuka, Spa, Monza, Le Mans etc.

 

That is somewhat liberal translation of Mount Panorama IMHO

Bathurst is just about the only Australian track I know or can name. It is also very iconic and difficult - or at least difficult to me playing GT Sport ;)

Others in the list would be (in no order)

- Spa

- Monaco

- Le Mans

- Daytona

- Laguna Seca

- Nurburgring Nordschleife

- Suzuka

- Pikes Peak

- Imola

[RacingGreen]

Konsta, on 05 Feb 2019 - 08:00, said:

That is somewhat liberal translation of Mount Panorama IMHO

Bathurst is just about the only Australian track I know or can name. It is also very iconic and difficult - or at least difficult to me playing GT Sport ;)

 

 

Phillip Island is also a beautiful track with the sea as a backdrop and it can be challenging particularly when the wind is blowing in off Bass Straight but I guess that doesn't really work on a computer console.

[Sterzo]

ClubmanGT, on 04 Feb 2019 - 18:30, said:

This is going to sound weird but swap Clemont Ferrand with Circuit Gilles Villeneuve... 

How very true.

[stewie]

Suzuka is definitely an iconic track, the figure of 8 layout is pretty unique. Led to any 1990s scaletrix set that could be figure of 8ed being recognised as suzuka to my childhood friends.

[Ben1445]

absinthedude, on 04 Feb 2019 - 14:22, said:

Silks and numbers notwithstanding, it is a matter of recorded fact that Mr. Fisher decided on building a banked oval near Indianapolis after visiting Brooklands. He stated that seeing French racing on streets in 1905 and Brooklands in 1907 convinced him to build a banked oval. In the opinion of the gentleman who was most responsible for the designing and building of IMS....Brooklands was his biggest influence. Brooklands begat IMS? Even if that is taking things too far, to suggest that Brooklands had no influence or lasting legacy seems.....less than factual?

Did he? I was always under the impression that he was somewhat annoyed Brooklands had beat him to it, having supposedly come up with the idea for a wide banked track earlier. 

 

But then I'm not disputing that that may indeed be recorded somehwhere, I think it's always been inevitable with national pride at stake we'd get different accounts and interpretations over the last century, making the truth somewhat obscure to say the least. 

 

Either way, It's pretty clear that many purpose built race tracks at the time took inspiration from horse and cycle racing as that was their main reference. Also, Brooklands is not by any means an insignificant part of the history of early motor racing and does indeed find itself weaved into the history of IMS. Definitely iconic to some, myself included. 

Edited by Ben1445, 05 February 2019 - 19:19.

[Zmeej]

1. Spa
2. Monza
3. Nürburgring-Nordschliefe
4. Monaco
5. Indy
6. Estoril, Suzuka (tied)
7. Circuit Gilles Villeneuve
8. Watkins Glen
9. Laguna Seca
10. LeMans (more out of blind respect than knowledge )

Edited by Zmeej, 06 February 2019 - 00:35.

[John B]

Based on general public name recognition Indy and Daytona are the clear top ones in the US. Talladega is also pretty well known, if it comes up most people associate with the track, aided by the guaranteed close finishes and highlight film crashes plate racing produces.

 

From a competition standpoint not a fan of those 3 and a few others mentioned above...would go with Darlington for NASCAR, the old Austria, maybe even the lost Riverside road course.

[aportinga]

Not sure it needs to be said but these are all original configurations... Also my personal favorites.

 

1. Nurburgring (Germany)

2. SPA (Belgium)

3. Meadowdale Raceway (US)

4. Road America (US)

5. Osterreichring (Austria)

6. Watkins Glen (US - for the off track shenanigans just as much as the race course)

7. Hockenheim (Germany)

8. Jose Carlos Pace (Brazil)

9. Mt Tremblant (Canada)

10. Burke Lakefront (US - airport course, not pretty but man the racing was good!)

 

[7MGTEsup]

I'm surprised it took till post #36 for Road America to be mentioned but then again most people outside of America who haven't watched any American racing wouldn't know it existed.

[Sterzo]

7MGTEsup, on 07 Feb 2019 - 16:16, said:

I'm surprised it took till post #36 for Road America to be mentioned but then again most people outside of America who haven't watched any American racing wouldn't know it existed.

There are quite a few excellent US circuits; the problem is how many to fit in a top 10. I'd certainly rank it as a more interesting track than Daytona, for example, but then others are taking into account the events that take place there. It all depends what one means by "iconic."

[PayasYouRace]

I guess the problem with Road America is that it doesn't have an iconic race to go with it so you have to be a serious enthusiast to know about it. I'd put it more in the hidden gem category.

[Beri]

Road America is one hell of a track tho. Raced it many times in racing games. Always in awe of the sheer speed after the Carousel. That first corner after the Carousel can make or break you. Literally.

[stenovitz]

With historic perspective (edited)
1. old Nürburgring with Zielstrecke/ older with Gesamtstrecke (Südschleife + Nordschleife)

2. Monaco Grand Prix Circuit

3. Autodromo Nazionale Monza

4. Linas-Montlhéry.

5. Targa Florio

6. Circuit de la Sarthe

7. Daytona Beach
8. Old Spa-Franchorchamps
9. Indianapolis
10. Old Hockenheimring
Could enter the list as well:

Brooklands

AVUS

Rouen Les-Essarts

Watkins Glenn (public road course with finish line in town).

Snaefell Mountain Course
Oh, could continue...

Nowadays tracks
1. Nürburgring, both Touristschleife, VLN Strecke and 24H Strecke.
2. Snaefell Mountain Course/Isle of Man TT
3. Circuit de la Sarthe/Le Mans
4. Indianapolis
5. Daytona + RC (24H) Course
6. Monaco Grand Prix Circuit

7. Suzuka
8. Spa-Franchorchamps
9. Monza
10. Sears Point/Sonoma Race Track.....or Laguna Seca...or Mount Panorama..or Portimāo...or Road America....or Road Atlanta...can't decide.

Those were my immediate thoughts. However, they could change in 30 secs. Difficult when you've been a simracer for 34 years, last 20 with purpose to learn new and historic tracks, pin out, buy books about the tracks, history and everything.

Edited by stenovitz, 11 February 2019 - 19:10.

[Gemini]

Iconic:

 

Nurburgring

Monaco

Monza

Spa

Indy 

Le Mans 

Isle of Man

Macau

Sebring

Daytona

 

From different perpective - the list of 10 if these were the only iconic tracks I were able to use for my simracing

 

Nurburgring

Targa Florio

Le Mans

Mount Panorama

Road America

Suzuka

Spa current day

Spa 60s

Macau

Monza

Edited by Gemini, 08 February 2019 - 10:18.

[Spillage]

1. Indianapolis
2. Monaco
3. Nordschleife
4. Monza
5. Le Mans
6. Spa-Francorchamps
7. Silverstone
8. Bathurst
9. Pikes Peak
10. Long Beach

I think probably only the top three will be known to people who aren't Motorsport fans.

[Bloggsworth]

I think iconic tracks have to be universally recognised - I'm not sure that the French, Turks, Brazilians and Americans are too aware of tracks like Bathurst, and to those less than 60 years old, the Nurburgring was that awful place where they couldn't decide just how tight the chicane should be...

[John B]

aportinga, on 07 Feb 2019 - 13:59, said:

Not sure it needs to be said but these are all original configurations... Also my personal favorites.

 

1. Nurburgring (Germany)

2. SPA (Belgium)

3. Meadowdale Raceway (US)

4. Road America (US)

5. Osterreichring (Austria)

6. Watkins Glen (US - for the off track shenanigans just as much as the race course)

7. Hockenheim (Germany)

8. Jose Carlos Pace (Brazil)

9. Mt Tremblant (Canada)

10. Burke Lakefront (US - airport course, not pretty but man the racing was good!)

 

Agree about Cleveland - always enjoyed the racing there and disappointed when it dropped off the schedule.

 

 IIRC in the early 1980s Hockenheim wasn't that highly regarded because the schedule featured tracks like Austria, Zandvoort, Kyalami, Brands, but it picked up support as these venues were cycled out.

[noikeee]

Bloggsworth, on 08 Feb 2019 - 17:48, said:

I think iconic tracks have to be universally recognised - I'm not sure that the French, Turks, Brazilians and Americans are too aware of tracks like Bathurst, and to those less than 60 years old, the Nurburgring was that awful place where they couldn't decide just how tight the chicane should be...

 

The Nordschleiffe is very very famous even among just casual car fans who don't really follow motorsport. Things like constant mentions on Top Gear and the inclusion on games like Gran Turismo made it a very big thing for the general public in recent years. It's not just for old dudes who remember F1 in the 1970s.

[Sterzo]

noikeee, on 08 Feb 2019 - 20:50, said:

The Nordschleiffe is very very famous even among just casual car fans who don't really follow motorsport. Things like constant mentions on Top Gear and the inclusion on games like Gran Turismo made it a very big thing for the general public in recent years. It's not just for old dudes who remember F1 in the 1970s.

...and stickers on the back ends of road cars.

[azza200]

noikeee, on 08 Feb 2019 - 20:50, said:

The Nordschleiffe is very very famous even among just casual car fans who don't really follow motorsport. Things like constant mentions on Top Gear and the inclusion on games like Gran Turismo made it a very big thing for the general public in recent years. It's not just for old dudes who remember F1 in the 1970s.

 

I didn't know about Nurburgring until it was in Gran Turismo 4 and seeing it on Top Gear (uk here) last year i finally watched my first N24 race and loved it for how insane it is and great racing. 

Edited by azza200, 08 February 2019 - 21:37.

[Bob Riebe]

From the middle of the U.S. of A. using non-gear heads or, nowadays even gear-heads, would even know/knew existed:

Indianapolis

Daytona

LeMans

Talledega

Monza 

Watkins Glen

Isle of Man

 

from there it gets real iffy

 

Road America

Milwaukee

Nurburgring

Knoxville

Ontario

Edited by Bob Riebe, 08 February 2019 - 21:38.

[RacingGreen]

John B, on 08 Feb 2019 - 19:39, said:

 

 IIRC in the early 1980s Hockenheim wasn't that highly regarded because the schedule featured tracks like Austria, Zandvoort, Kyalami, Brands, but it picked up support as these venues were cycled out.

 

I always liked the old Hockenheim but back in the 70's when 80%+ of the field were using Cosworth engines many of the teams hated it because it was full throttle for so much of the time that their engines blew up and being held at the end July/ start of August it meant that they couldn't get them rebuilt in time for the next races as the English engine re-builders were all short staffed with people on their summer holidays. This often resulted in the smaller teams having to put up with old or detuned engines for a race or two, or having to nurse their engines at lower revs at  Hockenheim rather than really go for it there. IIRC Jackie Stewart (for one) talks about this in his book Faster (Sorry but I can't find my copy to check the reference.)

 

Hockenheim's other drawback was that it was in Germany and not as good as the Nürburgring (because nowhere is) so it was always going to lose out in any comparison rather than being judged on its own merit. Maybe it grew in popularity in the 80's because the Nordschleife wasn't as fresh in the memory.

[BMWTeamBigazzi]

I would have put Knockhill, but as Scotland's only permanent racing circuit! that would have been a bit biased 

[stenovitz]

BMWTeamBigazzi, on 09 Feb 2019 - 05:17, said:

I would have put Knockhill, but as Scotland's only permanent racing circuit! that would have been a bit biased 

 

Knockhill should be at every simracers top 10, driven in 80ies unreliable standard cars - greets from Denmark 

[ExEd]

Not all of them produced great racing at all times but since we are talking about iconic : 

 

Monaco 

Suzuka 

Laguna Seca 

Long Beach

Spa-Francorchamps

Silverstone (old )

Macau 

Nurburgring

Bathurst

Indianapolis 

[Sterzo]

BMWTeamBigazzi, on 09 Feb 2019 - 05:17, said:

I would have put Knockhill, but as Scotland's only permanent racing circuit! that would have been a bit biased 

You'd be OK until a Chilean proposed his local Autodromo La Pampilla Coquimbo, then we'd vote for him because of the better weather.

[Anderis]

Before I became a racing fan, I had been aware of circuits like Monaco and Monza. Can't recall any others. I think Monza is underrated in this thread.

[ixnay]

Bathurst is my number 1 for variety. It may be bias. It may be privilege to get to see it and drive it myself. But a track like Bathurst would never make it as a new track ever again. Sure, it can't host f1 or Indy or any major open wheel event. But this is a track that defeats every other with altitude, micro climates, danger, and skill required. Coming down from the top is bloody hard at speed. It's beautiful. It's a shame it's so restricted in what runs on it, but that alone can prove my point. My only negative is the 1 case of beer per day per person restriction.

Edit: and I'd never agree with any plan to change it to allow more types to run on it.

Edited by ixnay, 10 February 2019 - 04:28.

[Sterzo]

Actually, I'm beginning to see the case for Bathurst. I always have a problem with the over-used word "iconic", but if we define it as representing the greatest in a particular category of art, sport or whatever, then it leads us in a slightly different direction from our "these are the best tracks" lists. Let's home in on that word "representing."

 

Grand Prix Racing: Spa, Monaco, Monza

Indycar Racing: Indianapolis, Road America

Endurance Racing: Le Mans

GT Racing: Nurburgring Nordschleife

Touring Car Racing: Bathurst

Junior Single Seaters: Macau

Historic Racing: Brands Hatch

 

And it comes to precisely ten. Don't know how that happened.

[PayasYouRace]

I like it. But surely for historic racing it cannot be anything but Goodwood?

[Sterzo]

PayasYouRace, on 10 Feb 2019 - 11:39, said:

I like it. But surely for historic racing it cannot be anything but Goodwood?

Pah. Fancy dress and brand new cars. One litre screamers through Dingle Dell please. [Var=grumpyoldman: true]

Edited by Sterzo, 10 February 2019 - 12:17.

[LB]

Forgot I posted this lol. People are asking what I mean by Iconic. Well, think if you stop the average person in the street to name 10 motor racing circuits which ten would they come up with - anywhere in the world. Of course it would be different everywhere (ie most people in Scotland would probably include Knockhill) but which ten would pop up everywhere the 10 best known. Not the ten best, that is a massively different list. I didn't think how well known the IOM TT would be known outside the UK as now its just a local event really. Assen I can see a case for if they know bikes. I do think that racing games would influence this slightly but how many know Laguna Seca is real and Trial Mountain isn't (a lot probably, but you know what I mean). 

Edited by LB, 14 February 2019 - 16:25.

[7MGTEsup]

LB, on 14 Feb 2019 - 16:24, said:

Forgot I posted this lol. People are asking what I mean by Iconic. Well, think if you stop the average person in the street to name 10 motor racing circuits which ten would they come up with - anywhere in the world. Of course it would be different everywhere (ie most people in Scotland would probably include Knockhill) but which ten would pop up everywhere the 10 best known. Not the ten best, that is a massively different list. I didn't think how well known the IOM TT would be known outside the UK as now its just a local event really. Assen I can see a case for if they know bikes. I do think that racing games would influence this slightly but how many know Laguna Seca is real and Trial Mountain isn't (a lot probably, but you know what I mean). 

 

I would think if you stopped the average person in the street they couldn't name 10 circuits.

[Zmeej]

Agree.

Methinks the single circuit the average person could name would depend on the country you posed the question in.

In Canada, it would also depend on which decade. In the 1960s to 70s, many people could name Mosport because lotsa other stuff happened there too. In the 70s until 1982, the number of circuits they could name would have gone up because of Gilles, and then in the 90s because of Jacques.

Meantime, glad somebody mentioned Mt. Tremblant.