58 replies to this topic

[DigitalDave]

Hello,

 

My great grandfather was a participant in the 1st Indi 500 with the Case racing team ( one of 3 cars -  Larsonneur - in 1911 )

 

I found another family photo, with William Durant ?

 

https://photos.app.g...VejM7TWFK5Ehgm7

 

Can anyone confirm ?

 

I have done some image searching, and found no early photos of Durant.

He sure looks happy, and my grandfather looks rather stricken.

 

Also, another photo of my grandfather in race car 37.

( any info about this car would also be useful )

 

Thank you in advance.

Edited by DigitalDave, 02 April 2019 - 21:51.

[Ray Bell]

What fantastic photos!

I'm sure someone here (not me, unfortunately) would come up with some identification. Do you have more?

Incidentally, the first Indy 500 was in 1911. There were other races at Indy before that, however.

[DigitalDave]

.. added photo with my great grandfather and Louis Chevrolet.

... and a J.I Case car photo

 

 

[D-Type]

have you tried posting on https://www.trackfor...104-s-nostalgia  They are far more Indianapolis-centric than here.

[Tim Murray]

I’m assuming from his opening post that Dave’s ancestor is Louis Larsonneur, who I believe acted as relief driver for Joe Jagersberger’s Case during the 1911 Indy 500.

Dave, these are fascinating photos, and I do hope you’ll be able to tell us more about your ancestor and his racing career. Was he an employee of the J I Case Threshing Machine Co, and why did he only act as a relief driver in the 1911 Indy 500 when he had been named as one of the three main drivers in the run-up to the race?

[robert dick]

Car No. 16 is a 1908 Grand Prix Renault, with Louis (or Lewis) Strang at the wheel.

Strang with riding mechanic Leo Anderson in No. 16 Renault started in the first Grand Prize of the AC of America, Savannah, 26 November 1908:
https://digitalcolle...slandora:180004

Seems that Louis Larsonneur was a member of the Renault team during the 1908 American Grand Prize/Savannah and was involved in the preparation of Strang's car;
I think this mechanic working on the Renault engine is Larsonneur:
https://digitalcolle...slandora:179817

 

= = = =

Car No. 37 is a Buick as used in the 1909 and 1910 stock chassis races.
 

[Paul Taylor]

Another photo here of Louis Larsonneur (third from left): https://img.newspape...4324_1000_1000/

 

His words on the 1911 Indy 500: https://img.newspape...0_4461_700_700/

 

 

[DigitalDave]

My great grandfather full name - David Louis Larsonneur.

 

He was a deep diver for the French Navy.

( using the old brass diving bell suits )

 

He was a small man with strength, and obviously ... fearless.

 

Yes, He was relief driver in 1911 race.

I do not know anything about his entry into racing.

I can tell you his career ended when his wife saw a mechanic fall out of a race car on film footage.

 

The photos with my great grandfather in car 16 and 37, are new to me, as 3 days ago.

( Maybe my great grandfather was test driving the Buick 37 car, and it makes sense, since you can all see him in a Buick with Louis Chevorlet - with big smiles on their faces. )

 

I am glad someone else thinks that Durant is in the drivers seat of car 16.

( it sure looks like him )

 

As for the Renault car 16, ... Seems you have discovered new family history for me.

Can we get more evidence ? ... that photo has my grandfather hat - great photo resemblance. 

 

... Thanks to all for your enthusiasm, and curiosity, and time spent with my family history.

 

[ edit ] 

 

Paul ! ... wow ... thanks! 

Yes, that is him ! --- and with a quote of his analysis of the 1911 race -- has put a tear to my eye. (happiness)

Edited by DigitalDave, 03 April 2019 - 09:34.

[robert dick]

Two additional photos with the Grand Prix Renault, Savannah, November 1908:
https://digitalcolle...slandora:179499
https://digitalcolle...slandora:179120

Probably Larsonneur came to America in the Fall of 1908 in company of the Grand Prix Renaults driven by Szisz and Strang in the Savannah race;
or he came earlier in company of a Renault racer for the Vanderbilt Cup and worked for Renault importer Paul Lacroix.

= = = =
Louis Chevrolet drove No. 37 Buick in August 1909 in the 250-mile Prest-O-Lite Trophy, Indianapolis.

= = = =
Between Monday and Wednesday, 6 and 8 September 1909, in the stock chassis races held on the Merrimack Valley course, Lowell, Massachusetts,
Louis Larsonneur was riding mechanic for Louis Strang in the Buick,
in No. G Buick in the 212-mile Vesper Cup and in No. 1 Buick in the 318-mile stock chassis race.
(his name was spelled Louis Larsnauer - later, he appeared sometimes as Louis Larseneur)
 

[Ray Bell]

Robert...

Try as I might, I cannot open those detroit library links.

[robert dick]

https://digitalcolle...ream/IMAGE/view
https://digitalcolle...ream/IMAGE/view
https://digitalcolle...ream/IMAGE/view
https://digitalcolle...ream/IMAGE/view

Additional photos:
Louis Chevrolet and Louis Larsonneur in the Buick
https://digitalcolle...ream/IMAGE/view
Louis Strang and Louis Larsonneur in No. G Buick, Lowell, 1909
https://digitalcolle...ream/IMAGE/view

Strang and Leo Anderson in the Grand Prix Renault, Savannah, 1908
https://digitalcolle...ream/IMAGE/view
https://digitalcolle...ream/IMAGE/view
https://digitalcolle...ream/IMAGE/view
https://digitalcolle...ream/IMAGE/view

Strang
https://digitalcolle...ream/IMAGE/view
 

[DigitalDave]

 

 

Probably Larsonneur came to America in the Fall of 1908 in company of the Grand Prix Renaults driven by Szisz and Strang in the Savannah race;
or he came earlier in company of a Renault racer for the Vanderbilt Cup and worked for Renault importer Paul Lacroix.

 

Port of entry - New York - May 5th 1908

 

 

 

https://digitalcolle...slandora:179499

 

My great grandfather - behind mechanic looking at engine !!!

 

 

 

Louis Strang and Louis Larsonneur in No. G Buick, Lowell, 1909
https://digitalcolle...ream/IMAGE/view

 

This is a fantastic photo.

I have not seen any of these before.

 

And, thank you for the information regarding the mis-spelling of my family name in the racing archives.

 

 

And, my OP is answered .. that is Strang in my family photo.

( not Durant )

 

wow .... 

Edited by DigitalDave, 03 April 2019 - 12:15.

[ReWind]

Port of entry - New York - May 5th 1908

That seems to be slightly wrong. David Louis Alphonse Larsonneur (b. 14 February 1875) from Billancourt in France arrived at Ellis Island on 04 May 1906 (source) with his wife Julia and two children (aged 5 and 6).
The family settled in Chicago, Illinois, and Louis became an American citizen in October 1916.
His wife passed away in January 1941 at age 59, and he himself died in August 1966 at age 91. His sons also had long lives, dying in April 1989 (Maxime Louis) resp. October 2000 (Maurice Charles).

[Ray Bell]

Does anyone have any suggestions as to why I can't open the photos from the Detroit library?

[DigitalDave]

 

 

That seems to be slightly wrong. David Louis Alphonse Larsonneur (b. 14 February 1875) from Billancourt in France arrived at Ellis Island on 04 May 1906 (source) with his wife Julia and two children (aged 5 and 6).

 

My notes come from an old hand typed document - that I did not read correctly. Yes, it says 1906. But, May 5th.

I have no access to my family archive on that site.

Thank you ,,, I have corrected the date on the letter

 

Thanks again to everyone.

The history you provided for me is greatly appreciated.

And, my OP is solved ...

Edited by DigitalDave, 03 April 2019 - 15:27.

[Vitesse2]

Ancestry has other naturalization documents - and also his WW1 draft card.

[Sterzo]

Does anyone have any suggestions as to why I can't open the photos from the Detroit library?

Most likely some feature of the file which your browser doesn't like. Is it Internet Explorer by any chance? Could try downloading Firefox (free and safe) and try viewing on that.

[Ray Bell]

I use Firefox...

I will try the other browser. That's 'Edge'

And it was futile as well. Can anyone please copy and paste the pics to an e.mail for me?

[B Squared]

I sent those off to you Ray.

[Ray Bell]

Thanks, Brian...

And what wonderful pics they are! Real treasures.

[robert dick]

In March 1906, a Renault agency was opened in Chicago, the Tileston-Picard Co. It was managed by Clarence Tileston and Paul Picard, with Charles Terhune as secretary. In September 1906, the company was closed, unable to renew an agreement with New York importer Paul Lacroix.
It seems that Louis Larsonneur, who was born in Billancourt, worked for Renault in France and came to Chicago in May 1906 to work for the Chicago Renault agency.

Beginning in the Fall of 1908, Larsonneur was always in some way connected with Louis Strang.
Strang came into the limelight in 1908 at the wheel of an 8-litre Isotta-Fraschini as used in the 1907 Kaiserpreis and Coppa Florio races. The Isotta had been purchased by 22-year old John Tyson. Strang won at Savannah, Briarcliff (in both races with Johnny Marquis as riding mechanic) and Lowell (with Leo Anderson). By the end of the 1908 season, Strang signed with Renault importer Paul Lacroix to drive Renaults and, at the same time, with Bill Pickens to drive Buicks.

 

Renault branch advertisement, 1906:

 

[DigitalDave]

Robert,

 

I can't thank you enough for your research / knowledge.

Some of the stories at the dinner table during the holidays as a child are no longer stories.

I only saw a few photos.

( that I provided )

We had 2 family albums, one of which was lost during the liquidation of the estate.

( that had many of the old mercury photos ) 

Unfortunately, I am on my own to capture the history now.

 

 

 

[Tim Murray]

What is the correct way to spell Mr Strang’s first name - Lewis or Louis?

[ReWind]

The 1900 census and his gravestone say Lewis.

[Tim Murray]

Thanks Reinhard.

[ReWind]

You are welcome.

 

BTW: How about renaming this thread?

 

"William C Durant ? vintage race car photo" has become a bit misleading, hasn't it?

[Tim Murray]

I PMed DigitalDave a little while ago suggesting a rename; awaiting his response.

ETA: Now sorted in line with Dave’s suggestion.

[robert dick]

Louis or Lewis Strang?
For the eontemporary press it was Louis Strang or Lewis Strang, depending on the report.
After Strang's victory in April 1908 in the Briarcliff race, there was a preference for Louis Strang
during a few months.
But by the end of 1909 and until his death in 1911 it was Lewis Strang most of the time.

Strang's early career in The Automobile, 30 April 1908, page 604:


Emil Stricker was killed in November 1908, when driving the Renault shared with Strang in the 24-hour race at Birmingham, Alabama.
When the Renault skidded on a turn, Stricker's long coat caught in the rear wheel and pulled him from the seat.
 

[robert dick]

On Saturday, 16 July 1910, the Buick team held a series of exhibition races on the Grosse Pointe track, Detroit, Michigan.
Louis Larsonneur took the wheel of a Buick in a 2-mile match against Bob Evans,

probably the first time he took the wheel in a competitive event.


From Automobile Topics, 23 July 1910, pages 1059 and 1060

(last line page 1059):


 

[Paul Parker]

Wow!

 

The faces and the cars, especially when taken head on, how brave were these people, very, can you just imagine racing on period roads with these machines,heroes one and all. 

[DigitalDave]

Why does the reply delete my original replies here ... ... ok  I type it all over again.

 

Robert,

 

Thanks again !

I'm saving everything with care, with your conversation.

( free admission to the race .. nice )

 

Paul,

 

Ever get hit in the face with a bug or a rock ..? at high speed ... ow

Or, picking rocks out of your skin, after a fall.

One memory I will never forget, chewing up a wasp that went in my mouth while riding my motorcycle.

( my face was like a balloon after )

My motorcycle racing history, is another topic.

 

Thanks for reading.

Edited by DigitalDave, 10 April 2019 - 14:11.

[robert dick]

It was in September 1910 that the Case Co. announced a racing team for 1911, managed by Lewis Strang.
One of the drivers was to be Louis Larsonneur.

 

From The Horseless Age, September 1910:

 

[DigitalDave]

" speed monster " 

 

what a great name to put on a car 

 

thx Robert

[robert dick]

Castor oil as engine lubricant was used in Europe in the Coupe des Voiturettes, beginning in 1907.
Lewis Strang was one of the first to use castor oil in America, initially in his Case racing car during the Florida meeting, Jacksonville, March 1911, maybe at Louis Larsonneur's recommendation
(from The Horseless Age, 1911):




This happened a long time before burned castor oil became the enthusiasts' favourite fragrance.
 

[robert dick]

Louis Larsonneur and the Case team did not start in one of the main events ( ) in the Spring of 1911, the International Spaghetti Grand Prix run at the Bridge Club, Manhattan, on Tuesday evening, 11 April. One of the promoters was Andrew Cuneo, the husband of Joan Cuneo and owner of the Atlantic Macaroni Co.
(Automobile Topics, 1911)


 

[robert dick]

A team of three Cases was to make its début in the Mardi Gras meeting at New Orleans during the last weekend of February 1911. The cars were entered for Lewis Strang, Louis Larsonneur and Wil Jones, with lots of promotion before the event (Automobile Topics, 1911):





But the three Cases did not appear. Strang and the Case cars were suspended for one year for failing to put in appearance. Two weeks later, the AAA racing board reduced the penalty to 30 days (up to 26 March so that Strang could start on the beach at Jacksonville) since Strang had been ill and unable to complete the cars in time:


 

[ZigZagZ]

On Saturday, 16 July 1910, the Buick team held a series of exhibition races on the Grosse Pointe track, Detroit, Michigan.
Louis Larsonneur took the wheel of a Buick in a 2-mile match against Bob Evans,

probably the first time he took the wheel in a competitive event.
 

 

 

Dear Robert,

 

Thank you for the results of the Gross Pointe exhibition races.  I had known about the event for some time, but wasn't aware of the outcomes.  "The Automobile" mentions the races (with no results), and the micro film from the Detroit Free Press is illegible.

 

By the way I need to pick up a copy of your new book.  I've read some passages in Google books, and you have compiled a lot of research in this manuscript.  Looks like a fun book, thank you sir.

 

Billy

Jefferson, Louisiana 

[ZigZagZ]

Hello,

 

My great grandfather was a participant in the 1st Indi 500 with the Case racing team ( one of 3 cars -  Larsonneur - in 1911 )

 

Thank you for sharing these wonderful photographs.  Just amazing!

 

Billy

[Michael Ferner]

Welcome to TNF, Billy! About time you joined this group, don't you think?

[robert dick]

The accident (during the Wisconsin State Automobile Association's endurance run) in which Lewis Strang lost his life (Motor Age, July 1911):


 

[DigitalDave]

This is my last photo contribution.

Found this in my fathers estate recently.

Original has a big fold ( crack ) in the paper.

However I spot healed, and tone adjusted.

 

Feel free to verify the facts written on the back. ( only 1909 )

 

 

Edited by DigitalDave, 05 December 2019 - 08:23.

[Ray Bell]

That would be if their 'extension' is wrong... .jpg and .gif are okay...

If you upload the pictures to Postimage having saved them as .jpgs you will be able to post them

As it stands, we can't even use the links.

[Tim Murray]

The links work OK for me, so here are the photos for Ray and others who may not be able to view them otherwise:

[robert dick]

The photo shows Louis Larsonneur at the wheel of No. 12 Renault, with Arthur Greiner in the mechanic's seat.
No. 12 Renault was to be driven by Greiner in the 1909 Indiana Cup.
The Indiana Cup was a stock chassis race open for 300-cubic inch cars, held on Friday, 18 June 1909 at Crown Point (ca. 50 miles southeast of Chicago).
Probably Larsonneur had just driven the Renault from Renault importer Paul Lacroix's shop in New York to Greiner's home in Chicago.

Greiner had fixed up a deal with Renault importer Paul Lacroix as entrant and driver of No. 12 Renault.
The Renault was a 4,4-litre stock chassis (bore x stroke = 100 x 140 mm).

According to the contemporary press, Greiner did not start because of malaria.
According to the remarks on the backside of the photo, the Renault could not be prepared in time for the start.

On Saturday, 19 June, on the same course, Louis Chevrolet in a Buick won the Cobe Cup which was open for 525-inch cars, finishing on three cylinders.
George Robertson in a Locomobile had a lead of twenty minutes after twelve laps, then fell back because of magneto trouble.
 

[DigitalDave]

Had to login to give a " like " to Robert.

Thanks again.

[robert dick]

Two photos (from the Detroit Public Library) showing No. 12 Renault which appeared in practice for the Indiana Cup, the 300-inch stock chassis race held at Crown Point, Indiana, on 18 June 1909. The Renault did not start in the race.
Arthur Greiner at the wheel and - I think - Louis Larsonneur as riding mechanic.





 

[robert dick]

Two additional photos of Arthur Greiner's No. 12 Renault, 1909 Indiana Cup (from the Chicago History Museum).
http://chsmedia.org/.../SDN-055251.jpg
http://chsmedia.org/.../SDN-055208.jpg

Louis Larsonneur can be identified as Greiner's riding mechanic:






btw:
Lewis Strang drove a Buick in the Cobe Cup (the 525-inch stock chassis race held the day after the Indiana Cup/Saturday, 19 June 1909).
http://chsmedia.org/.../SDN-055182.jpg
http://chsmedia.org/.../SDN-055185.jpg
 

[DigitalDave]

Hi Robert,

 

Nice to see new perspectives of number 12.

( inside the chassis and the attempt at aerodynamics )

 

You can see the camber on the passenger side front wheel is not good !

( the Monogram Oils photo )

 

Thanks ... 

Edited by DigitalDave, 21 June 2020 - 22:48.

[DigitalDave]

1908 Buick

 

 

 

Found this in an unusual place in my dad's stuff.

Not sure about the race info. Maybe Robert can.

I just scanned this one. No edits.

Edited by DigitalDave, 21 June 2020 - 23:18.

[Vitesse2]

Butler Ames Trophy, Lowell, MA, September 7th 1908. Strang won - by the proverbial street (and then some!) - on an Itala 60. However, if that is indeed a Buick, then it's presumably Bob Burman, who was disqualified.

 

Result on p464 here: http://www.dlg.speed...e/book/1909.pdf