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Tv director not showing the action


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#1 haryantofan666

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 08:41

I found the last few races extremely frustrating to watch. On the left hand side of the screen, on the graphic, you see many cars withing DRS range and the tv director is not showing the fights and overtakes. Not even replays! Instead, we see some cruising Mercedes at the front or we follow a Ferrari lap after lap with nothing happening, just on his own, lapping around, probably saving rubber or trying not to spin.

 

Last race in China people called it a boring race with no overtaking. Well, it wasn't, there was overtaking, but we did not get to see it. In Baku the same. There were at least 2 double overtakes that were completely missed and a replay was never shown.

 

It's not like the last 2 races were full of excitement at the front that the midfield battles would not have added something to the show. I feel the quality of the tv directing has gone downhill, it's unacceptable and makes it very frustrating to watch.

 

Libery says they want a great 'show', but this is just presenting F1 as boring. What is this, do they have to show only Mercedes and Ferrari cars all race by contract? Or is it just pure incompetence? Seriously, how hard is it, that whenever a car is withing DRS range, just focus on that fight. 

 

I feel the quality of tv directing is at an all time low, what do you guys think?



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#2 F1matt

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 08:50

Same thing happening in Qualifying, they prefer to show a Mercedes or a Ferrari on their warm up lap driving excruciatingly slowly instead of showing a Haas or Red Bull on a quick lap.



#3 JeePee

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 08:51

I feel the quality of tv directing is at an all time low, what do you guys think?

I completely agree.

 

China not only missed the fights, the camera-work on it's own was very low standard also. WTF1 even joked "how nice to let the fans film the 1000th race", but it actually is unacceptable at this level.



#4 Heyli

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 08:53

Is it the same director every race, or is a local network responsible per country? 

 

I agree, direction has been awfull so far this year. From my memory worse than last year... 



#5 Rinehart

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 08:59

The dozen replays of the start during lap 2 always bothers me. Let the race settle down a bit before we get into that. I don't need to see the start from just about every driver cam, especially if nothing notable happened. 



#6 Christbiscuit

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 09:13

We're descending to tabloid-level presentation of sport, where the TV people think the viewers are only interested in the big names, not in the sport itself, and whatever racing might be taking place outside of the top few positions. Throw in some pointless crowd shots of people seeing themselves on a screen and going "wooooooo!!!!" and you've a really bad recepie.

 

What really got to me over the weekend was F2 being presented as "F2 - The stars of the future" as if decent racing wasn't enough justification of its own to get me to watch. There's a desperate need to turn it all into human-interest stories instead of just a presentation of a race. Every driver needs to be a celebrity which, in the era of drivers having less and less to say, is problematic. It's getting harder and harder to love.



#7 JeePee

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 09:16

What also bothers me for a long time, is that in Q1 and Q2 they show every lap of Ferrari and Mercedes. I actually want to see the Willams', Stroll, Gio's lap etc. They need to be perfect or they're out. Give them some screen time. Bottas or Lewis will be through even if they spin 2 times... I don't care about their Q1 lap.



#8 sportyskells

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 09:18

The dozen replays of the start during lap 2 always bothers me. Let the race settle down a bit before we get into that. I don't need to see the start from just about every driver cam, especially if nothing notable happened. 

I agree. But the only time I think replays of the start is ok if there is a lap one Safety Car. 



#9 Lights

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 09:30

This thread is full of gold. Running out of likes here.

It's a shame how compared to ~20 years ago the broadcasting possibilities seem endless, there's so much potential for delivering quality, and yet they tend to fail in simple areas. And worse, they don't seem to recognize this and it's likely just getting worse.

#10 Marklar

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 09:49

What puzzles me about this is that they did this pretty good in Melbourne. Why the change?

Is it the same director every race, or is a local network responsible per country? 
 
I agree, direction has been awfull so far this year. From my memory worse than last year...

It's FOM every race, except of Monaco

Edited by Marklar, 30 April 2019 - 09:52.


#11 P123

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 09:52

It's generally the same as it has always been, although I do agree that there seems to be a bit of creep back to showing just the lead cars, which was always an issue in the 90s and early noughties (admittedly not a great deal happened anywhere in the field back then). I'm sure that I read something pre-season as to how FOM were going to experiment with new camera angles and such..... haven't noticed too much of that, but I do think we get less of the endless head on shots at the end of straights.

#12 TomNokoe

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 09:54

You'd think a TV Director would understand F1 to some degree and the current stories/narratives. But obviously not.

Liberty !

#13 milestone 11

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 10:01

What puzzles me about this is that they did this pretty good in Melbourne. Why the change?It's FOM every race, except of Monaco


You've been watching on F1TV, is there a proliferation of split screen on there?

#14 Retrofly

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 10:05

I lost my rag when they were showing Danny Ric retiring right when the race was hotting up at the front.

 

I honestly dont give a **** people going into the pits, turning off the engine, being revered into a garage and sitting their in their car, I've seen it a million times I know what it looks like, get back to the ****ing action!

 

Drives me mad and is a source of rage almost every race.

 

Why oh why are we watching a car roll down pitlane again! At least they've stopped showing Massa's brother now.



#15 Marklar

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 10:11

You've been watching on F1TV, is there a proliferation of split screen on there?

You can opt use a split screen with the world feed and two more cameras (usually two onboards), but I mean the world feed in Melbourne was focusing a lot on the midfield IMO, we even speculated back then whether it's the impact Netflix had, but somehow it turned to the opposite in the last few races....


Edited by Marklar, 30 April 2019 - 10:11.


#16 TomNokoe

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 10:14

I always thought it was funny that TV Comms was insistent "STAY ON THIS" when Vettel binned it Germany 2018, almost as if the rest of the TV Gallery did not understand its significance.

#17 Ben1445

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 10:24

Before I complain about a race director, I think I should like to try being a race director so I understand the job I am criticising...

#18 JeePee

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 10:27

Before I complain about a race director, I think I should like to try being a race director so I understand the job I am criticising...

You don't need to be a race director first, to complain about an endless start-replay sequence (where nothing happened) when the whole field is about to enter a 2km long straight in lap 2 of the race.



#19 Marklar

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 10:28

Before I complain about a race director, I think I should like to try being a race director so I understand the job I am criticising...

By that logic this forum shouldnt exist, because none of us ever was a Formula 1 driver.



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#20 Baddoer

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 10:32

Habit of showing infinite repeats of start thankfully is gone, but otherwise... It's pathetic really.



#21 JeePee

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 10:33

Habit of showing infinite repeats of start thankfully is gone, but otherwise... It's pathetic really.

They did it last race in Baku... After the start replays they started with overtaking replays which happened in lap 2/3, which we didn't get to see because of the ... start replays.



#22 Peat

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 10:36

With the DRS activations about to start here on lap 3, let's look at replays of the start from every angle. You'll see here from the Space Station Cam, that Hulkenberg got some wheelspin, dropping him from 16th to 17th at T1. And from this onboard of the inside of the front wheel of Stroll, you'll see that Lance had slight locking in T1 AND T2. 

Now, here's a replay of LeClerc overtaking 4 cars in 3 corners that happened while you were looking at the previous replays. 

Ad infinitum.



#23 robefc

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 10:36

Funnily enough I have the opposite frustration to a lot of those mentioned here in that I hate it when the second driver is getting close to the lead car but they don't move the focus back to that until they're already in DRS or wait a lap or two etc...

 

Although I get why people want to focus on the battles further down the field etc and I'm completely biased about what I want to see as a Lewis fan.

 

The absolute worst thing is the constant off track focus (people in the pit garages etc) or the switching away from the action to see a midfield pit stop, drives me nuts.



#24 MirNyet

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 10:41

Yes, I noticed this at the last race, plenty going on in the midfield, yet they were just watching a Ferrari in clear air.  I found myself watching the side panel, monitoring the gaps to actually see what was going on.



#25 robefc

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 10:43

Yes, I noticed this at the last race, plenty going on in the midfield, yet they were just watching a Ferrari in clear air.  I found myself watching the side panel, monitoring the gaps to actually see what was going on.

 

If you get live timing you may find you barely look up to watch the TV at all!



#26 jules153

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 10:43

Completely agree with the OP.

 

I must spend 50% of the time saying "Norris is 0.7 behind Grosjean... now he's 0.2 behind.... now he's passed" :mad: :mad: :mad:

 

It's even more frustrating since the graphic on the left of screen showing the car positions and gaps is displayed permanently so you realise what you're missing. In the past perhaps we missed the action but we didn't know what we were missing if you understand  ;)



#27 Muppetmad

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 10:50

Perhaps I'm being cynical, but after the Netflix series focussed so much on the midfield teams last year (owing to Mercedes and Ferrari's refusal to participate in the series), I wonder if the director is keeping the focus at the front so that some "exclusive, never-seen-before footage" can be thrown into the mix of the Netflix series.



#28 messy

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 10:50

Compared with what it was like ten years ago it's dreadful. And people moaned about it then too. 

 

They literally just focus on the non-existent lead 'battle' while other stuff is going on, unseen, behind. It's no wonder people are turning off if they don't see the actual racing!

 

And don't even get me started on the replays of the start coming on lap two. 



#29 MirNyet

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 11:00

If you get live timing you may find you barely look up to watch the TV at all!

 

I seem to recall there's an app for this?  Might have to look into that as the TV coverage is getting to be annoying - and I'm stuck with Sky as I'm in the UK.



#30 Silberpfeil

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 11:03

I fondly remember the days when each broadcaster could produce their own feed. German broadcaster Premiere’s work was often very good, capturing the action where it happened. I still think their cut of Malaysia 2001 is far superior to the official English-speaking version from the F1TV archive. Maybe it’s nostalgia from my first F1-related memories, but nothing could beat Jacques Schulz and Marc Surer back in the late 90s and early 2000s, not even Walker and Brundle.

Unfortunately, Bernie put a stop to that at some point, and all we got from that point forward was the world feed.

#31 Vesuvius

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 11:05

It actually hasn't changed all that much. Why are we offered such is another question. Already back in early 2000 we had canal digital, that offered 11-12 different program channels, were you could choose what you want to follow with lap chart etc, also tv graphics were 100% better and all the onboard cameras, like helmet view that has now made comeback.

Also 2003 shortly at France gp we had lap comparing between pole and 2nd, where cars were in top of each other and we could clearly see all the differences they made in that lap, now we have quite poor side by side comparison.

Edited by Vesuvius, 30 April 2019 - 11:12.


#32 robefc

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 11:08

I seem to recall there's an app for this?  Might have to look into that as the TV coverage is getting to be annoying - and I'm stuck with Sky as I'm in the UK.

 

There is, I haven't watched a race without live timing on my phone or iPad for years...even have it at Silverstone.

 

https://www.formula1...timing-app.html

 

I reckon if you had to choose between live timing an TV you would probably have a better understanding of the race with the former.

 

Top tip - live timing tends to be ahead of the TV, you can pause it to synch it up, more important in quali than the race. 


Edited by robefc, 30 April 2019 - 11:09.


#33 Heyli

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 11:51

Before I complain about a race director, I think I should like to try being a race director so I understand the job I am criticising...

It´s not like we are the fans/viewers who have an opinion on what they want to see and they find interesting...

 

Obviously the director knows exactly what you like, better than you do!



#34 SenorSjon

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 11:55

It actually hasn't changed all that much. Why are we offered such is another question. Already back in early 2000 we had canal digital, that offered 11-12 different program channels, were you could choose what you want to follow with lap chart etc, also tv graphics were 100% better and all the onboard cameras, like helmet view that has now made comeback.

Also 2003 shortly at France gp we had lap comparing between pole and 2nd, where cars were in top of each other and we could clearly see all the differences they made in that lap, now we have quite poor side by side comparison.

 

Don't start on the graphics.  :mad:

 

Why oh why

- do they remove laptimes on out-laps? The number box becoming white instead of gray should be enough. Or bring the P-symbol back

- isn't the laptime syncrhonised with S/F? You see the time ticking on before dropping back half a second and suddenly he has pole.

- intervals in race could really use tires+age behind the interval time.

- when a battle is 'highlighted', intervals are suddenly gone.

- micro-intervals were dropped after one FP last year.

- synch between onboards and feed is off. You saw it last race when Grosjean got passed on the rearview cam, but on the main feed the pass was long over.

- are there max 3 laptimes followed at the same time?

- aren't there sector markers. F-E, MotoGP, almost every class does that.



#35 Vesuvius

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 12:00

Don't start on the graphics. :mad:

Why oh why
- do they remove laptimes on out-laps? The number box becoming white instead of gray should be enough. Or bring the P-symbol back
- isn't the laptime syncrhonised with S/F? You see the time ticking on before dropping back half a second and suddenly he has pole.
- intervals in race could really use tires+age behind the interval time.
- when a battle is 'highlighted', intervals are suddenly gone.
- micro-intervals were dropped after one FP last year.
- synch between onboards and feed is off. You saw it last race when Grosjean got passed on the rearview cam, but on the main feed the pass was long over.
- are there max 3 laptimes followed at the same time?
- aren't there sector markers. F-E, MotoGP, almost every class does that.


Indeed. And now we don't even see longrun laptimes during friday, that we saw few seasons ago, they should have further improve that but instead they dropped it completely.

#36 Clatter

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 12:05

There is, I haven't watched a race without live timing on my phone or iPad for years...even have it at Silverstone.

 

https://www.formula1...timing-app.html

 

I reckon if you had to choose between live timing an TV you would probably have a better understanding of the race with the former.

 

Top tip - live timing tends to be ahead of the TV, you can pause it to synch it up, more important in quali than the race. 

 


I always used to use it until Bernie hid all the useful stuff unless you paid.

#37 krapmeister

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 12:19

Yes, I noticed this at the last race, plenty going on in the midfield, yet they were just watching a Ferrari in clear air. I found myself watching the side panel, monitoring the gaps to actually see what was going on.


The Kvyat/Ricciardo battle in Baku was a prime example of this. It was plain to see even from the time gaps on the TV screen (let alone needing access to live timing) that there was something juicy going on between those two, yet all we get is a yellow in sector 1 come up on screen while watching the leaders, then replays of what happened in T3. No footage of the lead-up to it at all, even post-race.

#38 Ben1445

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 12:26

Been torn to shreds a bit for my comment. Which is fair. Of course I don’t want to be a race director and I don’t *need* to be one to have criticism.

What I really mean is that an awful lot of time is spent on race thread getting very angry at the individual race directors as though they’re simply incompetent. Less so on the challenges and reasons why. I hope that isn’t so in this thread as well.

#39 Heyli

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 12:37

Been torn to shreds a bit for my comment. Which is fair. Of course I don’t want to be a race director and I don’t *need* to be one to have criticism.

What I really mean is that an awful lot of time is spent on race thread getting very angry at the individual race directors as though they’re simply incompetent. Less so on the challenges and reasons why. I hope that isn’t so in this thread as well.

I think the general request (as I understand it from most people) is just to see more of the midfield battles/cars... Dont think that´s an unfair request :). It´s also a rather straight forward one I would say. 



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#40 Ivanhoe

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 12:43

It’s not only about a lack of midfield battles, have also been watching midfield DRS trains, whilst one of the top 3 drivers was coming into DRS range of another. They just seem to completely miss where the action is.

Edited by Ivanhoe, 30 April 2019 - 12:44.


#41 SenorSjon

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 12:55

And yet they also see the intervals dropping between drivers. Focus on those. 



#42 Stephane

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 13:00

They said they were getting spotters along the track to warn the director about ongoing actions,  no ?



#43 TomNokoe

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 13:01

Ah... The destruction of Live Timing and TV Graphics. We should rename the thread "The Liberty Media Fan Experience".

Timing and Graphics both utterly ruined. I don't notice the TV direction as much.

#44 Mosquito

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 13:01

It’s not only about a lack of midfield battles, have also been watching midfield DRS trains, whilst one of the top 3 drivers was coming into DRS range of another. They just seem to completely miss where the action is.

it could be worse, they could reintroduce the Erja cam, 30 second super slowmos of cars bouncing over a kerb, tire flex (from 3 different angles, consecutively), a 'Horner's feet wiggle-o-meter' PIP covering 30% of the screen action, and more 'random zoom into pretty racer girl in the audience's naughty bits (F1 glamor!)

#45 ensign14

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 13:25

And in a way this thread shows up the appalling state of journalism.

 

For seemingly a decade people have been loudly complaining about the automatic reversion to start replays on lap 3, regardless of what is happening on track.

 

Has one single reporter ever asked one person in charge of the coverage why they are such cretinous ****stains to do this every ****ing time? 

 

No.  Because they're too scared of losing their paddock pass and access to thrilling interviews with grown-up billionaire sperm or Munchhausen-by-proxy Frenchmen.

 

About the best one can say about the coverage is that you don't get the overly nationalist coverage in the past, e.g. the Ukyo Katayama Grand Prix.



#46 SenorSjon

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 13:29

it could be worse, they could reintroduce the Erja cam, 30 second super slowmos of cars bouncing over a kerb, tire flex (from 3 different angles, consecutively), a 'Horner's feet wiggle-o-meter' PIP covering 30% of the screen action, and more 'random zoom into pretty racer girl in the audience's naughty bits (F1 glamor!)

 

Nooo, not the Erja cam! If we add those together, you could fill a whole season.



#47 robefc

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 13:38

I always used to use it until Bernie hid all the useful stuff unless you paid.


Unable to splash out or unwilling?

Live timing would be quite far down the list of things I would go without for financial reasons (obviously this highly individual according to circumstances).

#48 Clatter

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 13:42

Unable to splash out or unwilling?

Live timing would be quite far down the list of things I would go without for financial reasons (obviously this highly individual according to circumstances).

Unwilling.

#49 robefc

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 13:53

Unwilling.


Careful you’re not cutting off your nose to spite FOM! :p

#50 ANF

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 14:43

I always thought it was funny that TV Comms was insistent "STAY ON THIS" when Vettel binned it Germany 2018, almost as if the rest of the TV Gallery did not understand its significance.

To no avail, because as soon as Bottas pitted (at 1:13) they stayed on his pit stop for 30 seconds as if there was a minimum pit stop time. When they got back to Vettel he had already gotten out of the car.