68 replies to this topic

[Beri]

In a Dutch article, which says its an exclusive story, its suggested that Wolff might follow up Carey after 2020.

What are your thoughts? Would Wolff be a good fit? What will happen to Mercedes once their laurelled teamboss runs off? What would it mean for the FOM and Liberty?

Article in question (Translated by Google):
https://translate.go...rmula-one-group

[Beri]

Now that I posed this thread, the title looks a bit suggestive. PAYR (or any other admin) could you alter the title to a better format? Maybe to add a question mark?

[babbel]

Now that I posed this thread, the title looks a bit suggestive. PAYR (or any other admin) could you alter the title to a better format? Maybe to add a question mark?

 

Done

[Beri]

Done

Fantastic! Faster than Williams' car ;)


Anywho, on topic:
To me it looks like there is a serious possibility that Mercedes could walk after 2020. Now with Zetsche leaving and the change in regulations that might not suit Mercedes too well, Toto looking on is a very real scenario. By the looks of it, something internally is cooking at Mercedes, and one only can hope it is the right thing for F1.

[Nonesuch]

 

" ... the recent series of world titles, which is likely to end as soon .. "

 

Did Wolff himself write this article?

 

On a more serious note, Wolff seems a pretty astute businessman. No reason he couldn't do a good job here. No guarantee that he will, but he seems passionate about motorsport and this could be a nice way to change up his game without leaving F1.

 

We'll see. I'm sure it'll be fun to see Wolff and Brawn team-up again.

Edited by Nonesuch, 08 May 2019 - 07:33.

[Marklar]

Article in question (Translated by Google):
https://translate.go...rmula-one-group

Might as well post the original

https://www.racefans...lff-after-2020/

I remember rumours about Horner replacing Bernie at some point in the past based on similar grounds. It may happen and it would make a lot of sense, but at this stage its nothing more than silly season material.

[TomNokoe]

More evidence that Liberty have bitten off more than they can chew?

[TheGoldenStoffel]

Fantastic! Faster than Williams' car ;)


Anywho, on topic:
To me it looks like there is a serious possibility that Mercedes could walk after 2020. Now with Zetsche leaving and the change in regulations that might not suit Mercedes too well, Toto looking on is a very real scenario. By the looks of it, something internally is cooking at Mercedes, and one only can hope it is the right thing for F1.

 

If Mercedes leaves it most certainly means Lewis will retire as well, losing one of the best teams ever from the sport would already be a nightmare but losing of the best ever drivers ever at the same time would be a disaster.

[PayasYouRace]

If Mercedes leaves it most certainly means Lewis will retire as well, losing one of the best teams ever from the sport would already be a nightmare but losing of the best ever drivers ever at the same time would be a disaster.

 

These things are never a disaster. There's plenty of big names in F1 right now to fill those shoes. It would just be seen as the start of a new era.

[Gemini]

Looking at Toto's previous advantures he will for sure take some shareholdership. And negotiate options to get more in the future. I would not be surprised if he ends up being 'new Bernie'

[SenorSjon]

No, Wolff is on a quest to replace Brawn everywhere he goes. 

[jonpollak]

Shirley they mean Susie.
Jp

[Beri]

These things are never a disaster. There's plenty of big names in F1 right now to fill those shoes. It would just be seen as the start of a new era.

Start of a new dawn it is certainly. Considering the new set of rulings and such. But should Mercedes quit as a team, I reckon it will be hard to find someone taking over the Brackley operation. The Brixworth operation could be retained by Mercedes as use for its high performance engines develpment and production.

I think it will be near impossible for Mercedes to find a suiting team boss on such short notice (within 2 years) should Toto leave.

[BiggestBuddyLazierFan]

If Mercedes leaves it most certainly means Lewis will retire as well, losing one of the best teams ever from the sport would already be a nightmare but losing of the best ever drivers ever at the same time would be a disaster.

Factory teams come and go as they please. Its always been like that.

Drivers grow old and retire. Its always been like that.

I do not see any disaster here

[Beri]

Factory teams come and go as they please. Its always been like that.

Drivers grow old and retire. Its always been like that.

I do not see any disaster here

Half a billion. Rounded up. That's what Mercedes spends this season (allegedly). Half a billion dollar company, whoosh, gone. I do see that as a bit worrying if no one is tempted to take over the assets and run the company by spending that much money.

[popolonx]

So merc will get another advantage, again...

[Clatter]

More evidence that Liberty have bitten off more than they can chew?

How so? Going by the article it's simply a case of contracts ending and speculation over who might take over the roles.

[Anderis]

But should Mercedes quit as a team, I reckon it will be hard to find someone taking over the Brackley operation.

Most of the time, when a team leaves F1, there's no problem to find someone who buys the operation. Don't forget that Brackley had belonged to Honda and they left F1 as one of the biggest spenders in 2008, in the middle of world's financial crisis, yet Brackley survived and have even become the most successful F1 team since then. BMW left the same year yet Hinwil also carried on.

 

If we get budget cap and more fair share of prize money from 2021 onwards, it will be even more likely that someone will want to take over than it was in the past and in the past there were very few instances when facilities and entry of a competitive team weren't taken by someone else when their previous owner had decided to leave F1.

Edited by Anderis, 08 May 2019 - 09:51.

[Jovanotti]

Another, bigger platform to sprout his bullshit about allegedly close competition in the sport.

[Counterbalance]

I can see lots of irate Ferrari fans storming into this thread. But let's not forget that Jean Todt took over the FIA and has shown 0% bias towards his former team.

So if Wolff does take over, then I'd expect he would act in the same way as Todt does, that of being extremely professional.

[BiggestBuddyLazierFan]

Half a billion. Rounded up. That's what Mercedes spends this season (allegedly). Half a billion dollar company, whoosh, gone. I do see that as a bit worrying if no one is tempted to take over the assets and run the company by spending that much money.

Perfectly normal. Perfectly normal.

People die. Companies fold.

New people are born. New companies emerge.

Fangio died. Brabham died. Vanvall folded. Lotus folded. Brabham folded. Several times. All of them were once great drivers and great companies. Today, nobody hardly even notices their absence.

[DeKnyff]

What surprises me is that Mercedes is still in Formula 1.

 

They have already won absolutely everything in the last five years, they have nothing more to prove. Every goal that could have been imagined in terms of image boost has, for sure, already been reached. Still, they are spending several hundreds of million €uros every year. It can't last for ever and it can't last long. Even, in case they wanted to remain associated with F1, they could keep a lower (and cheaper!) profile as engine manufacturers, like they did for 15 years with McLaren.

 

Well, maybe their problem is to find a buyer who is ready to pay a hefty price for the team?

[7MGTEsup]

What surprises me is that Mercedes is still in Formula 1.

 

They have already won absolutely everything in the last five years, they have nothing more to prove. Every goal that could have been imagined in terms of image boost has, for sure, already been reached. Still, they are spending several hundreds of million €uros every year. It can't last for ever and it can't last long. Even, in case they wanted to remain associated with F1, they could keep a lower (and cheaper!) profile as engine manufacturers, like they did for 15 years with McLaren.

 

Well, maybe their problem is to find a buyer who is ready to pay a hefty price for the team?

 

From what I understand Mercedes hardly have to put their hand in their pocket as most of the money comes from winning and sponsors. I seem to remember reading they only back the team to the tune of $50 million a year.

[Hela]

What surprises me is that Mercedes is still in Formula 1.

 

They have already won absolutely everything in the last five years, they have nothing more to prove. Every goal that could have been imagined in terms of image boost has, for sure, already been reached. Still, they are spending several hundreds of million €uros every year. It can't last for ever and it can't last long. Even, in case they wanted to remain associated with F1, they could keep a lower (and cheaper!) profile as engine manufacturers, like they did for 15 years with McLaren.

 

Well, maybe their problem is to find a buyer who is ready to pay a hefty price for the team?

 

One could say the same about Ferrari, they have won multiple championships (Driver and constructors) set most records and achieved all they could yet they remain in F1

[Beri]

One could say the same about Ferrari, they have won multiple championships (Driver and constructors) set most records and achieved all they could yet they remain in F1

Ferrari's reason to remain in F1 is totally different compared to Mercedes' reasoning.

[krapmeister]

Half a billion. Rounded up. That's what Mercedes spends this season (allegedly). Half a billion dollar company, whoosh, gone. I do see that as a bit worrying if no one is tempted to take over the assets and run the company by spending that much money.

 

AllisonGP? 

 

 

Well... if he doesn't want to take the team over ala Brawn, then hopefully he'll head back to Renault to lead them to glory 

Edited by krapmeister, 08 May 2019 - 11:41.

[MasterOfCoin]

Ferrari's reason to remain in F1 is totally different compared to Mercedes' reasoning.

You sure about that?.....In these times cash seems to be the reason.....

[kosmos]

If Mercedes leaves it most certainly means Lewis will retire as well, losing one of the best teams ever from the sport would already be a nightmare but losing of the best ever drivers ever at the same time would be a disaster.

 

 

The sport is bigger than any team or driver, are you one of those that predicted the death of F1 after Senna dies too?.

[SilverArrow31]

What surprises me is that Mercedes is still in Formula 1.

 

They have already won absolutely everything in the last five years, they have nothing more to prove. Every goal that could have been imagined in terms of image boost has, for sure, already been reached. Still, they are spending several hundreds of million €uros every year. It can't last for ever and it can't last long. Even, in case they wanted to remain associated with F1, they could keep a lower (and cheaper!) profile as engine manufacturers, like they did for 15 years with McLaren.

 

Well, maybe their problem is to find a buyer who is ready to pay a hefty price for the team?

 

 

They could beat Ferrari's record for most consecutive constructor championships they haven't done that yet. They are on five, Ferrari got six.

[Hela]

Ferrari's reason to remain in F1 is totally different compared to Mercedes' reasoning.

 

I thought the underlying and main reason is to use F1 as marketing tool in the quest for more car sales, is that not what both Mercedes and Ferrari are doing ?

[Beri]

You sure about that?.....In these times cash seems to be the reason.....

If Ferrari leaves, it wouldnt have any racing class it officially will compete in to boost sales numbers.
If Mercedes would leave F1, they will still have FE and will sell cars by the millions. They have a wider market to sell cars in.
Yes in the end it is all about the dun dun di di di dun. Mercedes is quite replacable with any other team (question is who woul want to fill its void). But Ferrari needs F1 more than F1 needs Ferrari. People tend to forget such things.

Edited by Beri, 08 May 2019 - 12:38.

[Marklar]

Mercedes can *easily* surivive without F1 (though as long as it's profitable they will certainly be around in some kind of form), Ferrari's mythos is very connected to F1 and a exit will probably cause for both far more harm than good.

[JHSingo]

I think it would be a mistake for someone who's been in a prominent position in one of the three leading teams for so long to end up in a position like that so soon. Ideally, I think the CEO and chairman of the sport should have no affiliation (or, at least, no recent affiliation) to one of the competitors.

[Beri]

I think it would be a mistake for someone who's been in a prominent position in one of the three leading teams for so long to end up in a position like that so soon. Ideally, I think the CEO and chairman of the sport should have no affiliation (or, at least, no recent affiliation) to one of the competitors.

So Todt is such a person you wouldnt applaud? Is Todt doing his job well according to you?

[krapmeister]

Todt as FIA President doesn't really seem to have that much to do with F1 itself though these days.

 

Toto in Carey's role on the other hand would...

Edited by krapmeister, 08 May 2019 - 13:03.

[sgtkate]

If Mercedes leaves it most certainly means Lewis will retire as well, losing one of the best teams ever from the sport would already be a nightmare but losing of the best ever drivers ever at the same time would be a disaster.

Losing Mercedes would be a shame I agree, but Lewis is much nearer the end of his F1 than the start. Each generation will have their own stars and Verstappen, Leclerc and to a lesser extent Norris and Russell look potentially capable of filling those shoes.

[beachdrifter]

In a Dutch article, which says its an exclusive story, its suggested that Wolff might follow up Carey after 2020.

 

For years, Horner has been touted as Ecclestone's successor. Now that no one believes that lame story anymore, they're moving on to the next team principal. Boring.

 

At least make it fun: "Binotto to take over Carey's responsibilities in addition to his current roles at Ferrari. Believes he needs "more variety" in his day job."

Edited by beachdrifter, 08 May 2019 - 13:25.

[JHSingo]

So Todt is such a person you wouldnt applaud? Is Todt doing his job well according to you?

 

He didn't go straight from Ferrari to the FIA though. There was a gap.

 

But yes, as krapmeister says, Todt doesn't really seem to do anything on the sporting side. I wonder how the last few years would have been different if Ari Vatanen had become president instead.

[Berner]

Are we not simply discussing who is Captain of the Titanic? To me the bigger issues are boredom (in the minds of teenage gamers) and paywalls (in the minds of prospective sponsors). Whether it's Toto or Chase, someone has to improve the product. Wonder if that "New Coke" guy is available?

[Nonesuch]

If Ferrari leaves, it wouldnt have any racing class it officially will compete in to boost sales numbers.

 

True, but Ferrari can easily strengthen the already very strong ties with AF Corse and re-cast their existing GT programs as a factory effort akin to Ford's.

 

[Cornholio]

Ferrari's reason to remain in F1 is totally different compared to Mercedes' reasoning.

 

One thing I realise when I sit and think about it, while yes Mercedes don't have the same unbroken longevity as Ferrari (or some independent teams), they haven't had the same frequency of coming and going as others such as Renault, BMW, Honda etc.

 

In the past 80 years they've quit Grand Prix racing twice - once because of WW2, and once in the wake of the Le Mans disaster. Okay there was quite a long gap after the latter, but they've had an unbroken run as a works F1 engine supplier since 1994, not including 1993 when they weren't officially Sauber's engine partner but were clearly involved in their entry.

 

Which isn't to say the modern day board won't decide to pull the plug any time soon, but it does seem to me they occupy a category of their own between Ferrari's ever-presence and the more frequent come and go nature associated with other manufacturers.

[RedRabbit]

One thing I realise when I sit and think about it, while yes Mercedes don't have the same unbroken longevity as Ferrari (or some independent teams), they haven't had the same frequency of coming and going as others such as Renault, BMW, Honda etc.

 

In the past 80 years they've quit Grand Prix racing twice - once because of WW2, and once in the wake of the Le Mans disaster. Okay there was quite a long gap after the latter, but they've had an unbroken run as a works F1 engine supplier since 1994, not including 1993 when they weren't officially Sauber's engine partner but were clearly involved in their entry.

 

Which isn't to say the modern day board won't decide to pull the plug any time soon, but it does seem to me they occupy a category of their own between Ferrari's ever-presence and the more frequent come and go nature associated with other manufacturers.

 

I see this "come and go" associated to factory teams so much, but is that really true compared to independants? Which nobody really wants to watch, unless those independants are Williams or McLaren. You just need to look at the post counts on the team topics on here to get a good idea of how popular the independants aren't! Most manufacturers have actually stuck around for about a decade, either as full factory teams or at least as a works partner to teams like McLaren, Williams or BAR.

 

I don't believe Mercedes are about to pull the plug on the F1 program any time soon, nor any other top team, simply because there is no other marketing "vehicle" for them to use that has the reach and impact of F1. Using F1 in your marketing strategy goes way beyond motorsport enthusiasts, even for companies like Red Bull. And if the parent company isn't using F1 to market, many of the other sponsors will be. ROI for top teams is huge when you think that the marketing effort is similar to a pyramid scheme, where the biggest winners are the ones in at the top (the actual team or manufacturer) and every single sponsor / company signed up to them is simply expanding the reach on the teams behalf.

 

Where does this put Wolff in 2021? Hard to say. He's a very effective motorsport boss, and it would have been interesting to see how he handled Williams if the Merc opportunity never came along. He comes across to me as someone who recognises he doesn't have the skills to micromanage every bit of the operation, but he will eventually appoint the best possible person he can for each role to assist him. If he were to take on a role at Liberty Media, I genuinely don't see him having any bias towards a Merc operation, and his interest would be solely about F1 as a whole. He already talks up the other teams and how close they are.

[GrumpyYoungMan]

These things are never a disaster. There's plenty of big names in F1 right now to fill those shoes. It would just be seen as the start of a new era.

Yes but none have the crowd drawing power of LewLew...

[Clatter]

Yes but none have the crowd drawing power of LewLew...

 

Drivers come, drivers go.

[thefinalapex]

Yes but none have the crowd drawing power of LewLew...

Really? Verstappen draws major crowds already..

[Ramon69]

Yes but none have the crowd drawing power of LewLew...

   

[Sterzo]

If Mercedes pulled out, they would no doubt organise it to enable the team to continue, as BMW did with Sauber, and Honda with BAR. Toto Wolff's background is as an investor and an organiser of businesses, including raising funds. He owns 30% of the team and Lauda owns 10%. Assumptions that the team would close and leave Wolff out of a job are wide of the mark.

[Marklar]

F1 survived Mansell, Prost and Senna leaving in the space of a bit more than a year, it can survive every driver's departure, even if a little short term drop can happen of course.

[sopa]

What surprises me is that Mercedes is still in Formula 1.

 

They have already won absolutely everything in the last five years, they have nothing more to prove. Every goal that could have been imagined in terms of image boost has, for sure, already been reached. 

 

That is of course a good question. In one form or another Mercedes has been part of F1 already since 1993. No other car manufacturer has had such consistent longevity for a good while, apart from Ferrari.

 

Mercedes has nothing left to prove and they may also see that domination is affecting F1 negatively on the long-term (i.e Renault pulled out, because they dominated too much and their engine failure at Monaco 1996 was considered as exciting news, lol).

 

But then again Mercedes may consider that their consistent presence in the news is good enough, they don't want to take this way of exposure away. Each time there is an F1 race, all important media outlets will write that Mercedes won. While it gets boring for fans, the ordinary Joes, who don't follow F1, don't care that much. They just see from headlines that Mercedes is great. And it gets proven again and again each year, confirming their strength.

 

So Mercedes HQ may decide that this consistent exposure has proven to be a positive thing for them, and they decide to carry on. But I think they would like it to be affordable. Especially with dwindling audiences. So I think even Merc HQ would greet budget cap.

[jjcale]

I bet that Brawn is regretting his .... "I felt I was dealing with people I could not trust" statement from a couple of years ago.