85 replies to this topic

[Vitesse2]

My copy finally arrived about three hours ago - a previous delivery of both that and the new book about the Schells having gone astray. I've just put it down for the first time since then, having reached the end of 1936 ...

[Vitesse2]

Finished it this morning and can only endorse (most of) John Aston's comment. I had previously tried to unravel the background of Lilian Beattie-Seaman myself, but - as the book explains - there are deliberate obfuscations about her early life and I'm enormously impressed that Richard Williams managed to get to the bottom of it. She comes over very much as a scheming social climber - to echo John, at times repellently so - but she was also very much a woman of her times and (achieved/self-assumed) class. After the death of Dick's father her attitudes and behaviour seem to have become more erratic; William Beattie-Seaman had been anti-German and she had probably absorbed much of his attitude, but of course admiration of 'the new Germany' was very much in vogue in British 'society' circles in the 1930s and in some ways she seems to have mellowed a little in that regard. During her visit to Dick's home in Germany in 1938 some of the metaphorical scales - especially regarding anti-semitism, which was actually in vogue in much of Europe - seem to have fallen from her eyes and she went almost to opposite extremes; I'm sure this must have influenced her attitude to Erica. And although she seems to have realised that the world as she knew it was changing, she also appears to have resented and fought against (or simply ignored) that process; it baffles me why she didn't sell Pull Court after Dick's death for example.

 

For general background I'd recommend Julia Boyd's well-researched 2017 book 'Travellers in the Third Reich', which I've been reading recently and is also in the bibliography of the Seaman book, and Juliet Gardiner's 'The Thirties'.

 

Turning to Dick, he does come across as his mother's son, especially in the incident John highlights in his Speedreaders review - today I guess he'd be described as 'entitled' - but that's surely a product of his very privileged upbringing and education: private tutor, prep school, Rugby, Trinity Cambridge. He obviously wanted for nothing and was seldom if ever refused anything - he also seems to have been very adept at manipulating his mother to his will.

 

Dick's social circle came from that background too; I'd suggest that the likes of Charlie Martin and 'Mad Jack' Shuttleworth, both of whom feature in the book, might have had similar attitudes. Consider also Luis Fontes, Kaye Don and Freddie Dixon - none of them in the same social class, but all notorious in their day.

 

Equally, is it really surprising that he had the odd character flaw? He certainly wouldn't be alone in that among 1930s GP drivers; von Brauchitsch, Chiron, Nuvolari, Farina and Caracciola - to name but five - were hardly saints either. Nor were some other well-known 1930s sportsmen like Fred Perry, come to that. Let he who is without sin ...

[Eric Dunsdon]

Mr Williams has also written some nice pieces about cycle road racing including a very poignant item about the Vigorelli track in Milano. I have greatly enjoyed the Seaman book too. I reckon he's the man to tackle the first Achille Varzi book in English. (Some Hope!). .

[Regazzoni]

He's an avowed Italophile, I think he speaks, certainly reads, the language. He would make the perfect biographer for Varzi, in light of this book, Ferrari and Pescara. He would need to move in Lombardia for quite a while for the research, perhaps a bit too much to ask (beside the current situation).

[Tim Murray]

I reckon he's the man to tackle the first Achille Varzi book in English.

He's an avowed Italophile, I think he speaks, certainly reads, the language. He would make the perfect biographer for Varzi ...

Oh yes please. Wouldn’t that be wonderful.

[Eric Dunsdon]

Its nice to see such support for Achille. That looks like at least four potential buyers!.

[john aston]

One further point on the Seaman book - Richard Williams refers to a fan letter from a Cambridge schoolboy , one J Lowrey . I checked with Richard and my hunch was right - it was indeed the young Joe Lowrey, who went on to become the Technical Editor of Motor , and much else  besides , who died in 2010 ..  It's on p131 if you have the book

[hillsprint]

"Can anybody post a map of the old Spa circuit with the spot where Seaman had his fatal crash?"

 

As has been mentioned it was the left hand kink before the run to La Source, Paul Frere in his book Starting Grid to Chequered Flag states that in his opinion it was the memorial stone to Seaman placed at the site that played a part in  Archie Scott Brown's tragic accident at the same point, as the rear wheel of his Lister Jaguar clipped this stone as the car skidded along the grass verge, causing the car to veer into the trees. He said he had foreseen such an incident and had asked the organisers to move the stone, but it wasn't done.

[68targa]

He's an avowed Italophile, I think he speaks, certainly reads, the language. He would make the perfect biographer for Varzi, in light of this book, Ferrari and Pescara. He would need to move in Lombardia for quite a while for the research, perhaps a bit too much to ask (beside the current situation).

 

A biography of Achille Varzi would, I imagine, have plenty of appeal. There must be so much to learn about this formidable driver. I  would make room on my bookshelf  for a copy,

 

Richard Williams has of course, written about the 1957 Pescara GP - "The Last Road Race" published in 2004.

[P0wderf1nger]

Well, make of this review what you will - especially the colour of Jim Clark's Lotus at Hockenheim, and Ayrton Senna's steering column...

 

Written by Michael Moritz, a partner at Sequoia Capital, it appears in the FT.

 

https://on.ft.com/2Ky3jfu

[Vitesse2]

I think Mr Moritz should stick to venture capitaling, because he obviously knows a lot less about motor racing than he thinks he does ...

 

 

Seaman spent less than three seasons in the top ranks of motor racing, which placed him in the uncomfortable position of competing in a car emblazoned with swastikas.

Hogwash. He competed precisely once in a car with a swastika on it. In the 1937 Vanderbilt Trophy. AT THE INSISTENCE OF THE AMERICANS, WHO DECREED THAT ALL CARS SHOULD CARRY THE NATIONAL FLAG OF THEIR ENTRANT.

 

The photo caption - by Getty - is also wrong in several ways. Let's look at that:

 

Richard Seaman test drives gives a private demonstration of his Mercedes Benz ahead of Britain’s first international car race at Crystal Palace in 1937, a couple of days before the London Grand Prix Imperial Trophy.

 

There are several other Getty photos of that demonstration run - all with erroneous captions!

[Pullman99]

Just wondered if anyone knows the present circumstances surrounding the recent announcement that Coys had gone into administration and what  the story is behind the "exact replica" 1937 Merecedes-Benz W125 that, I believe, Richard Williams visited at their premises a while ago.   The W125 was also exhibited at the London Classic Car Show at Olympia this year

[opplock]

Crossthwaite & Gardiner built several W125 toolroom replicas. I saw an incomplete one when I visited their premises in 2014. Price was £1.5m from memory. My recollection is that BCE commissioned the first one and that Mercedes Benz stipulated they must not use their name.   

[Charlieman]

Just starting the Richard Williams book. I'm already surprised that Richard Seaman attended prep school with Jo Grimond and John Profumo shortly after WWI. Profumo died in 2006, aged 91.

 

The past is sometimes very close.

[guiporsche]

Apologies for resurrecting this thread but now that we have Richard Williams' biography, is Nixon's Shooting Star still worth having as a good book on its own? 

[Doug Nye]

Yes of course it's worth having for the photo content alone (although it's rather poorly reproduced).

 

DCN

[P0wderf1nger]

I've re-read all three books on Dick Seaman recently. If your budget or book shelves can stretch to only one, it has to be Richard Williams'. He marshals his material exceedingly well, and tells one of the most interesting of inter-war racing stories superbly.

Chris Nixon's book is large format with many more photos, so I'd echo Doug's point. Nixon started his research long before his book was published in 2000, so he got to meet many of the players in Seaman's story, most notably Erica, and his introduction and final chapters make compelling reading. And he has has an appendix of Seaman's race results, all the way from Shelsley Walsh 1931 to Spa 1939. 

 

Price Chula's book, first published in 1941, has period flavour but is less rounded.

 

But while I'm doffing my hat to Richard Williams, his biography of Enzo really is outstanding.  

[Doug Nye]

Nixon, Chula, Williams - I hesitate to mention it but there is a fourth book on Dick Seaman which occupied me for quite some time...and which in part contributed to the Williams work - while also having acted as the spark which kicked Nixon into completing his.

 

DCN

[Roger Clark]

Please don't forget Doug's Dick and George.  Palawan prices but the quality you expect.

[P0wderf1nger]

Nixon, Chula, Williams - I hesitate to mention it but there is a fourth book on Dick Seaman which occupied me for quite some time...and which in part contributed to the Williams work - while also having acted as the spark which kicked Nixon into completing his.

 

DCN

 

I do apologise, Doug, sincerely. I wish I'd bought it at the time, but at Horton's price it's gone outside my budget.

I'll get my coat. 

[Doug Nye]

Absolutely no need - my pain is entirely synthetic... 

 

DCN

[P0wderf1nger]

Absolutely no need - my pain is entirely synthetic... 

 

DCN

 

But mine is entirely real!

[jtremlett]

I do apologise, Doug, sincerely. I wish I'd bought it at the time, but at Horton's price it's gone outside my budget.

I'll get my coat. 

It is still available direct from Palawan.  £135 for the standard (clothbound) edition.  Not cheap but cheaper than £750 for the leatherbound (and cheaper than Hortons for that matter...).

[PaulButler58]

Nixon, Chula, Williams - I hesitate to mention it but there is a fourth book on Dick Seaman which occupied me for quite some time...and which in part contributed to the Williams work - while also having acted as the spark which kicked Nixon into completing his.

 

DCN

It sits on my bookshelf alongside others from yourself Doug. A fascinating book and , if you can afford it, well worth the outlay

[bradbury west]

Dick Seamans salute looks a half hearted one, something that had to be done at that time though especially with team mates like Lang and Von Brauchitsch from what I have read. His seat at Mercedes was well earned by his remarkable drives in Delage, ERA, Alfa Romeo and Maserati, the latter being a Works drive I believe.

Some time ago a newspaper was covering a similar topic, IIRC, and they showed a photograph of the England football team in 1936 standing in line on the pitch prior to the start of their match in Berlin against the national team and they were all giving a far more demonstrative salute than that for which Seaman is censured. Probably team orders and common courtesy. I have a copy here somewhere, but probably googleable.
Roger Lund.

edit. I have just done a search and it was the game in 1938. The site The Conversation gives the story, and it appears that the FA and the organisers agreed prior to the match starting that this would be a good idea. Apparently the players were not happy about it.

https://theconversat...otorious-127071

[Doug Nye]

Those round-ball players appear much more enthusiastic about presenting their hosts' salute than did Seaman at the Nürburgring.  But a fraction of a second's still photography can always present an inaccurate impression.  This is where movie tells a more accurate tale.

 

DCN

[Vitesse2]

During the Olympic opening ceremony two years earlier - in the same venue - only a very few teams had given the salute as they passed the dais. The British had agreed beforehand that their acknowledgement would be a simple 'eyes right'.

 

Ode to Peace or Prelude to War?

 

The Nazi salute was also very similar to the Olympic salute.

 

And it's not generally remembered (or conveniently forgotten?) that until 1942 US protocols mandated the Bellamy Salute.

 

As Doug says, the newsreel tells us more; at seven seconds in you can see that while the English players are - as per the UK's protocols - standing to attention during 'God Save the King', the Germans are actually saluting, just as they would have done for any other foreign anthem being played before the match. Here's the Irish Times report of when the Germans played the Free State in Dublin in 1936: https://www.irishtim...-park-1.3678273 And that also includes a photo of the Irish team saluting before the return fixture in Bremen in 1939 - although I would guess not during the playing of 'Amhrán na bhFiann' (if that was actually played - it's complicated!)

 

 

Since the German football team played quite a few home games between 1933 and 1939 I have little doubt that other foreign teams were presented with the same dilemma. In 1938 alone, by the time England arrived in May, Germany had already played home games against the Swiss, Portuguese, Hungarian and Luxembourg national sides. The Home Office's advice should be seen in that light, in a world still adjusting to the Anschluss of just two months earlier ...

 

This was taken at Roosevelt Raceway in 1937. I assume this is during the playing of the German anthem. Caracciola, Rosemeyer and others are giving the German salute, Nuvolari the Italian Fascist (Roman) salute, in which the arm is held nearer the vertical, very much like the Bellamy Salute. Equally it could be during 'The Star Spangled Banner', although as Farina and Seaman seem to be 'present but not involved' it most probably isn't, as both of them would surely have acknowledged the home country's anthem more formally. And Pete de Paolo Ralph de Palma has merely removed his hat.

 

 

The past is a foreign country. They do things differently there. (LP Hartley)

[Collombin]

Isn't that Ralph de Palma rather than Pete de Paolo?

[Vitesse2]

Isn't that Ralph de Palma rather than Pete de Paolo?

Indeed. Fixed.

[jimtimperley]

Some interesting information, and views, here on the various Dick Seaman books.

FWIW my personal favourites are Richard Williams’ book, which can hardly be bettered for a rounded biography, and ‘Dick and George’ for the fascinating insights via the letters.

 

During the Olympic opening ceremony two years earlier - in the same venue - only a very few teams had given the salute as they passed the dais. The British had agreed beforehand that their acknowledgement would be a simple 'eyes right'.

Ode to Peace or Prelude to War?

The Nazi salute was also very similar to the Olympic salute.

And it's not generally remembered (or conveniently forgotten?) that until 1942 US protocols mandated the Bellamy Salute.

As Doug says, the newsreel tells us more; at seven seconds in you can see that while the English players are - as per the UK's protocols - standing to attention during 'God Save the King', the Germans are actually saluting, just as they would have done for any other foreign anthem being played before the match. Here's the Irish Times report of when the Germans played the Free State in Dublin in 1936: https://www.irishtim...-park-1.3678273 And that also includes a photo of the Irish team saluting before the return fixture in Bremen in 1939 - although I would guess not during the playing of 'Amhrán na bhFiann' (if that was actually played - it's complicated!)

Since the German football team played quite a few home games between 1933 and 1939 I have little doubt that other foreign teams were presented with the same dilemma. In 1938 alone, by the time England arrived in May, Germany had already played home games against the Swiss, Portuguese, Hungarian and Luxembourg national sides. The Home Office's advice should be seen in that light, in a world still adjusting to the Anschluss of just two months earlier ...

This was taken at Roosevelt Raceway in 1937. I assume this is during the playing of the German anthem. Caracciola, Rosemeyer and others are giving the German salute, Nuvolari the Italian Fascist (Roman) salute, in which the arm is held nearer the vertical, very much like the Bellamy Salute. Equally it could be during 'The Star Spangled Banner', although as Farina and Seaman seem to be 'present but not involved' it most probably isn't, as both of them would surely have acknowledged the home country's anthem more formally. And Pete de Paolo Ralph de Palma has merely removed his hat.

The past is a foreign country. They do things differently there. (LP Hartley)

What a strange subject to have expertise in - Nazi salutes…

Reminds me rather of Father Seamus Fitzpatrick in the TV Series ‘Father Ted’
https://www.youtube....h?v=-u28C3dF3Kc

Edited by jimtimperley, 18 February 2022 - 10:42.

[Doug Nye]

Richard Willams has just pointed out to me that today is the 110th anniversary of Dick Seaman's birth, at Aldingbourne House, West Sussex.

 

Since 1948 the House has been within earshot of the Goodwood Motor Circuit, created in part by the motor racing enthusiasm that his exploits fostered in so many...

 

DCN

[ensign14]

Since the German football team played quite a few home games between 1933 and 1939 I have little doubt that other foreign teams were presented with the same dilemma. In 1938 alone, by the time England arrived in May, Germany had already played home games against the Swiss, Portuguese, Hungarian and Luxembourg national sides. The Home Office's advice should be seen in that light, in a world still adjusting to the Anschluss of just two months earlier ...

V***a did a tour of Germany in 1938 and the players in the years after were proud to say they refused to give the salute.

 

Problem is, photographic evidence proves that they did give it...

[sabrejet]

V***a did a tour of Germany in 1938...

 

Nino would have been 5. That's some tricycle.

[MichaelJP]

A bit late to this thread, but the life and times of Richard Seaman, and the associated history of late 30's GP racing has long been a fascination of mine. I live around the corner from 3, Ennismore Gardens in South Kensington and often think of the man as I pass the house and also next to the nearby church (now Russian Orthodox) where the famous photo of Hitler's wreath was taken.

 

One local question which I don't know if anyone can answer - it intrigued me, this sentence in Richard Williams' book: "The Seaman family’s double-fronted garage in Ennismore Gardens Mews was being transformed into a racing team’s workshop..." now the mews garages (now all residential) are just around the corner from the big house, not behind the house like most in the area. Anyone know which one was the one Dick used?

 

I have all the Seaman books, I would say my favourite (and not just saying this because he is on the forum!) is Doug's Dick and George. These days virtually all my reading is done on Kindle devices for convenience, but just occasionally a volume merits a physical book for the quality of its typesetting and photographs. This is one of them.

 

Like others, I could see with the right screenplay and director, the Williams book could make a really good movie with its themes of daredevil high speed racing, family feuding, disapproved-of romance, and all the while the build up to WW2. With modern computer graphics such as we saw in the recent Ford v. Ferrari movie the racing could be highly realistic. I hope it happens one day.

[MichaelJP]

A bit late to this thread, but the life and times of Richard Seaman, and the associated history of late 30's GP racing has long been a fascination of mine. I live around the corner from 3, Ennismore Gardens in South Kensington and often think of the man as I pass the house and also next to the nearby church (now Russian Orthodox) where the famous photo of Hitler's wreath was taken.

 

One local question which I don't know if anyone can answer - it intrigued me, this sentence in Richard Williams' book: "The Seaman family’s double-fronted garage in Ennismore Gardens Mews was being transformed into a racing team’s workshop..." now the mews garages (now all residential) are just around the corner from the big house, not behind the house like most in the area. Anyone know which one was the one Dick used?

 

Just to answer my own question I had a walk out earlier today and found the mews garage, took a photo, all the garages are now luxury houses.. here's a 'then and now' if anyone's interested:-

Edited by MichaelJP, 02 April 2023 - 16:30.

[Vitesse2]

Today is the 85th anniversary of the marriage of Richard John Beattie Seaman and Erika Elfriede Popp.