73 replies to this topic

[Macca]

No Goodwood FoS thread this year - were any TNFers there, other than participating?

Good that was all streamed live, unlike the MM (ironically, since the FoS is open to all unlike the MM).

Paul M

[Vitesse2]

I watched some of the streamed coverage, but - and I suspect I'm not alone here - the increasing focus on the increasing number of 'exotic supercars' each of which costs several squillion quid leaves me cold. Ditto drifting. Ditto yet another attempt to get a car up the hill on two wheels. And when you get people apparently enthusing over the ability to drift a Lamborghini ...  

 

Apart from the Euro NASCARs I don't think there were many racing or record cars I hadn't seen before at the FoS.

 

Equally, I realise that from His Grace's point of view the event is all about getting people - especially families - through the gate. I guess I'm just not one of those people any more.

[sabrejet]

I went Thur/Fri but will probably just do one day next year: for me, too much showboating, too much NASCAR, drifting etc. Too many doughnuts (the burnt rubber variety) and fewer in the way of highlights. Also the first year I can recall with no Jaguar XJR and no Porsche 956/962. Ditto no current Le Mans winner (in any class).

 

It felt a bit low-key, which did mean that it was a tad more relaxed, but the lack of an AMR-1 (or AMR-One) in the Aston celebration was inexcusable. I will be writing to my MP.

 

Yes it's about bottoms on seats, but it's always going to be a sell-out, so why the apparent emphasis on style over substance?

Edited by sabrejet, 08 July 2019 - 11:58.

[ensign14]

I went Thur/Fri too, and, as usual, thought "not much new here, I'll get through it in no time", and, as usual, found too much to do...

 

One notable thing was the lack of book dealers in the supermarket bit.  Only noticed Porter Press.  I assume GFoS is too mainstream for the niche market.

[Jack-the-Lad]

I've been to seven Revivals and five MMs, but no FOS. It's just not the type of event that interests me. Even Revival has lost its attraction, and due to location (US) and finances (meager), I'm self-limited to one Goodwood event per year so it has to be MM.

[kayemod]

I went Thur/Fri too, and, as usual, thought "not much new here, I'll get through it in no time", and, as usual, found too much to do...

 

One notable thing was the lack of book dealers in the supermarket bit.  Only noticed Porter Press.  I assume GFoS is too mainstream for the niche market.

 

I've been ten or twelve times, and although I've enjoyed the event each time, it's heading ever so gradually into the Legoland/Alton Towers bracket, a fun day out for all the family. Nothing really wrong with that I suppose, but inevitably, these slight changes are starting to lose some of the interest from tech-nerds like most of us on TNF, a niche market as ensign says. Nobody would blame His Grace for trying to widen the event's appeal like this, he has to make a living after all, but as ticket sales are restricted, presumably by insurance etc, and it always seems to be a sell-out, it's a shame that the appeal of the FoS is being watered down ever so slightly. Today's emphasis on "supercars" is actually a turn-off for many like us I think, though the kids seem to like them. The lack of the usual "Who's going this year?" and "Is there a TNF get together on the Friday?" chat has been missing, so maybe some ennui is affecting more than just me. I'd been given a free ticket by Alfa, and even that wasn't enough to tempt me, upper body, eyes and brain said "Yes!" of course, but lower body, long suffering legs mainly, pleaded successfully for the respite of a year off.

 

Would it be possible for the mods to separate Festival 2019 posts into a thread of their own? That would make this year's photos and comments more prominent and accessible.

[Charlieman]

Yes it's about bottoms on seats, but it's always going to be a sell-out, so why the apparent emphasis on style over substance?

Ah well, it's rather like the watch adverts in Motor Sport magazine. The PR puff for auctions and "supercar" manufacturer displays pay for the stuff that interests people like us. As Kayemod suggested, FoS is more a motor sport flavoured fun day out than a motor sport event.

 

I watched the live stream off and on over the weekend, aiming for the historic car runs with varying success. There weren't many 1950s and 60s single seaters, or did I miss them? The timed run up the hill for the ex-Michael Schumacher FF1600 was impressive but completely without drama or spectacle. Real hill climb specials would be great, but car manufacturers like VW would be unimpressed if their multimillion pound creations were beaten by a home-brew built at a fraction of the cost.

 

Drifting? Of no interest at all to me, but the ability to drift a Lamborghini deserves respect. Twice a year my local newspaper reports that somebody has stuffed one up on a straight stretch of road...

[Tim Murray]

Would it be possible for the mods to separate Festival 2019 posts into a thread of their own? That would make this year's photos and comments more prominent and accessible.

Certainly - now done.

[sabrejet]

Real hill climb specials would be great, but car manufacturers like VW would be unimpressed if their multimillion pound creations were beaten by a home-brew built at a fraction of the cost.

 

And usually omitted in conversation is that, until this year a certain Graeme Wight, jr was still second fastest up said hill for about as long as that F1 chappie. Too close for comfort and despite a number of protestations that UK hill climbers (used as they are to regularly threading their way successfully up courses half as wide as Lord March's front drive) would be overcome by the occasion and stuff their Gould/Force/OMS into the crowd. 

 

Tis a shame but clear that, yes, Mr VW/F1 etc wouldn't be too happy having spent gazillions to be so publicly humiliated by Trevor/Scott/Wallace/Alex/Will etc.

[jtremlett]

...One notable thing was the lack of book dealers in the supermarket bit.  Only noticed Porter Press.  I assume GFoS is too mainstream for the niche market.

One of the book and memorabilia dealers that I always chat to at events told me last time I went (a couple of years ago) that Goodwood kept putting the price of a pitch up and they weren't doing the business to cover it.  He wasn't there this year.  In fact, I hardly saw any of the usual dealers in books, models or memorabilia that used to always be there and found disappointingly little of interest in that area at all.  A lot of it wasn't car related and what was tended to be things like hefty sets of spanners - which I can't imagine too many people would be wanting to buy and then lug around for the rest of the day.  

[Nigel Beresford]

And usually omitted in conversation is that, until this year a certain Graeme Wight, jr was still second fastest up said hill for about as long as that F1 chappie. Too close for comfort and despite a number of protestations that UK hill climbers (used as they are to regularly threading their way successfully up courses half as wide as Lord March's front drive) would be overcome by the occasion and stuff their Gould/Force/OMS into the crowd.

Tis a shame but clear that, yes, Mr VW/F1 etc wouldn't be too happy having spent gazillions to be so publicly humiliated by Trevor/Scott/Wallace/Alex/Will etc.

Do you mean Romain Dumas in your reference to “Mr VW/F1”?

Research his career including his achievements at Pikes Peak. You might be pleasantly enlightened and gain a measure of respect for him. He earned it.

Edited by Nigel Beresford, 08 July 2019 - 19:57.

[Collombin]

Forgot all about the FoS this year, despite having been to 8 of the previous 9. From what I am reading on this thread, amnesia is underrated.

[Regazzoni]

[ensign14]

 

^ Judah's work is always stellar

 

 

^ what colour?

 

 

^ there was a roped-off Aston Martin "moment" where they brought a load of the Astons together under the sculpture.  I assumed that I was entitled to step over the rope and get a closer look.  After all, it is easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission, and the Bible has something about forgiving trespassers.   Had a word with Ray Mallock and one of the electric car engineers which perhaps added to my cover.

[dwh43scale]

Having been to most FoS since 1994, my last FoS until this year was 2015 (the Rossi year). Like many I was finding too many of the same cars (a certain Ferrari 166 for example), too much emphasis on Eff Wun doing donuts and not going up the hill with pace and a growing corporate / manufacturer motor show feel to the place. Oh and everything seemed to have become  wow ! amazing ! look at that !

 

I resolved to use my GRRC free ticket for Thursday this year and got up very early, still sat in heavy traffic on the M25 (I should know better by now) and was pleased with my forward parking slot just four rows from the entry gate.

 

Only decided to take a proper camera with a short zoom at the last moment but was really in snapping mode - either in the paddock of colourful close-ups - or some hill runs from the Kinrara forecourt. The results can be found here - https://www.flickr.c...os/dwh38/albums - and actually I am quite pleased !

 

The commentary really missed the knowledge of an MAWP (on Thursday when I was there at least) and suffered at the hands of what I think is a very enthusiastic R5 Live F1 commentator who was good at guessing.

 

It has got very corporate / the place to be seen and isn't what it was in the early days - and of course was never going to stay the same.  Of course there are some unique, touching moments, but just not enough.  Me, well having discovered proper hillclimbing of late I will stick to the boys and girls driving up narrow tracks in 600bhp single seaters.

 

All IMHO and FWIW - I am sure other views are available !

 

 

PS - apart from catching up with my friends at Jarrotts and MotorsportClassics there was precious little of interest in the exhibitors.

Edited by dwh43scale, 08 July 2019 - 19:08.

[sabrejet]

Do you mean Romain Dumas in your reference to “Mr VW/F1”?

Research his career including his achievements at Pikes Peak. You might be pleasantly enlightened and gain a measure of respect for him. He earned it.

 

'Mr VW/F1' would be [insert manufacturer here]. No issues whatever with Mr Dumas (though I didn't realise he'd done any F1. I shall forgive him that).

Edited by sabrejet, 08 July 2019 - 20:32.

[Nigel Beresford]

Romain is a proper racer / rally driver / hillclimber - an all-rounder of the type often lamented on TNF as being no longer extant. He bucks that trend. My own experience of working with him on the RS Spyder made me a massive fan, so I am bound to be defensive on his behalf but he is one of us - an addict.

Edited by Nigel Beresford, 08 July 2019 - 21:28.

[Lee Nicolle]

Having watched the live stream as well again from here in Oz to me it is getting way too commercial, though to pay I suspect it has to be. 

I have little interest in expensive automotive toys. 

I have no real ambition of going, though the revival would be excellent.

I have been to the track in June 17 with a classic ride day happening and that is a lovely venue. 

Not looking for it, saw the sign so there I went.

If and when I go back,, 3 weeks was not long enough to see the country I suspect I will go back and visit, though I have fairly much done the 'bottom' of the country. London. the midland towns and Wales as well as Scotland I want to go back for. And the troubled place west of Liverpool.

[Lee Nicolle]

Romain is a proper racer / rally driver / hillclimber - an all-rounder of the type often lamented on TNF as being no longer extant. He bucks that trend. My own experience of working with him on the RS Spyder made me a massive fan, so I am bound to be defensive on his behalf but he is one of us - an addict.

The car is a specialised hillclimb car, built for Pikes Peak. Mega dollars so it should be both quick as well as reliable.

And the driver fairly well versed in most aspects of motorsport.

Though the specialised hillclimbers in the UK would possibly still be faster. 

Though too me no burnouts to get some heat in the tyres would simply stop me. 

Though the specialised hillclimb tyres really do not need heat.

[Lee Nicolle]

Oh and for Mad Mikes Lambo,, a lemon. The Mazda based vehicles are a far better deal.

[sabrejet]

...like a 787B or an RX-792P.

 

And apologies if it sounded like I was criticising Romain Dumas: I was in fact trying to contrast manufacturer gazillion budgets versus folks who manage to get up Shelsley in 25 seconds aboard a car they built themselves.

 

And I do like the iD-R very much, so it's a bit of an ambivalent approach I have to these things. Manufacturer gazillion budgets (by contemporary standards) after all brought us fantastic machines from Porsche 917 to Audi R18.

[john aston]

It has got very corporate / the place to be seen and isn't what it was in the early days - and of course was never going to stay the same. Of course there are some unique, touching moments, but just not enough. Me, well having discovered proper hillclimbing of late I will stick to the boys and girls driving up narrow tracks in 600bhp single seaters.

It was reassuringly un - corporate at the Barbon or Harewood RAC rounds last weekend . Barbon is a rubbish hill but possibly the prettiest location of any hillclimb , and watching Will Hall's Force pull 129mph was something . At Harewood he managed 138mph and I doubt any racing car - VW included - could have cornered faster than Richard Spedding's staggeringly fast GWR Raptor

[raceannouncer2003]

 

Is that Sir Jackie giving a rose to Helen ?

 

Vince H.

Edited by raceannouncer2003, 09 July 2019 - 06:04.

[Giraffe]

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

 

I attended on Friday along with a chap from South Elmham........

 

I found the whole experience pretty horrendous but I was there on a mission. Arriving as the gates opened at 7.30am, I was immediately is a queue for the first footbridge. The first hour or two that I used to find precious have been wiped out and it was a seething mass of humanity from the get-go. Nice to see Rob Walton's double Le Mans winning GT40 with it's hand scratched id plate showing a Mirage chassis number! Other than that, it was same old for the most part. Sad that there was no TNF meet-up, missed that. 

As soon as my business was finished, I scarpered....says it all really, or maybe I'm just getting old? Roll on Chateau Impney.

Edited by Giraffe, 09 July 2019 - 08:45.

[john aston]

I wouldn't buy a Grand Prix from the bearded chap,even if Vladimir Putin would . In The Times Beardie said Putin should run Europe , amongst other insane ramblings. How much did he charge for the picture ,and are all your fingers still in situ  ? 

[Bikr7549]

Did you check that you still had your wallet after that shot was taken?

Edited by Bikr7549, 09 July 2019 - 15:46.

[kayemod]

A man may be judged by the company he keeps...

[Mallory Dan]

I'm not interested at all I'm afraid, never have been. I watched a bit on telly, and liked the too long but quite nice bit about the Stewart family. After that, the Idiot Kravitz pointed out Schumacher's FF, noting it as a Formula 3 car.... Given that he's on telly as an expert, that was crass. 

[sabrejet]

The commentary was indeed dire at times; not sure who he was, but one of them insisted on talking about 'fastest lap' each time there was a timed run and of how the 'circuit' was dry/fast/wet/slow/narrow etc. Target audience now seems to be the Barry Boys.

[condor]

I didn't go this year - first year I've missed for at least 15 years..might even be 20.
I've been quite happy watching bits on youtube/SkyF1 and about to watch the special on ITV4

eta Just watched the ITV4 prog and in an hours programme, more than 3/4 was a travelogue using supercars.
Barely saw anything of what was at FoS.

Edited by condor, 09 July 2019 - 21:02.

[Flemming]

I do enjoy the free livestream that you can wind forward, backward and pause at ones own will. That is great.

 

I really liked the performance of that little whizz kid Oliver Solberg! The way he wrangled that DS3 over the hill climb course was a joy.

 

I was attending FOS from 1999 to 2014. The early noughties were the best years. The crowds were managable and it was possible to find accomodation relatively close to the event at a fair price. The 2010's were increasingly awful. LOTS of people. Way too many. Long ques getting in and getting out - and every hotel in the vicinity winding prices up like it was the bloody Monaco GP.

 

And as others have noted - the small shops with books and models gradually evaporated replaced by this corporate image of big manufacturers constructions in glass and steel.

 

As I come from Denmark the price of spending a weekend in the gardens of Goodwood sadly became way larger than the enjoyment - anyway the cars I am interested in appear every year more or less anyway - so no need to get more pictures of those! ;-)

 

Not any racing involved - but a trip to Retromobile in Paris in february is way cheaper - less hassle to get there - but still many people though! Recommended.

 

Flemming

[sabrejet]

Flemming: agree on all but the queues. I get there at 6.30am, walk slowly to the gate, wait 15 minutes for the gate to open and chat to like-minded folks and then leave about 4.30 with no bothers. If you have lunch and loo breaks when the Red Arrows/F1 bits are on, you don't miss the interesting stuff.

 

I'll still give it a go next year, but you are right - the best years are behind us for FoS. But for the new audience I'm sure they'll love it.

 

So. Is there now room for an enthusiasts' historic event? Silverstone won't cut it due to the circuit/infrastructure being complete @rse; and sadly Chateau Impney won't be including slots for Can-Am, Group 5 or Group C anytime soon. Ditto the Revival Fancy Dress Competition. I already do Goodwood MM but a warm-weather event would be nice.

Edited by sabrejet, 10 July 2019 - 10:03.

[Steve L]

I always think Donington Park is an ideal place for a big historic event. I went to the VSCC meeting a couple of weeks ago and was impressed with how money has been spent to improve the place. A large paddock for the racers and support, and a nicely restored grassy infield which can be used for displays and a trading village. Large grassy banks with great views for spectators too.

And the whole place is centrally located and easy to get to with plenty of accomodation in Nottingham and Derby.

[ktrhe]

I attended the FoS since 1995 every Year. But I feel 2019 was my last one. To much focused on modern F1, Drift cars, Driving experiences, Euro NASCAR and to less Track Action. Good photo position taken by Grandstands. The prices for Accommodation is rising to a level that I´m not will pay anymore even in Portsmouth. I think a new crowd will love the Rubber burning shows, but it is not my kind of Motorsport. The last piece of the old Festival of Speed is, for me, the Rallye Stage.

[Rob Ryder]

I always think Donington Park is an ideal place for a big historic event. I went to the VSCC meeting a couple of weeks ago and was impressed with how money has been spent to improve the place. A large paddock for the racers and support, and a nicely restored grassy infield which can be used for displays and a trading village. Large grassy banks with great views for spectators too.

And the whole place is centrally located and easy to get to with plenty of accomodation in Nottingham and Derby.

... and rumour has it soon to become a housing estate.

[john aston]

Really?Tell us more ?

[Stephen W]

Having watched ITV4s Goodwood programme last night I am really glad I went to a proper hillclimb. Whenever David Green was waffling on about cars I lost count of the numbers of factual errors that he made. I doubt that it was his fault as he would be reading a script but it was woeful.

 

 

[sabrejet]

I wish that I too had gone to a proper hill climb. I really should know better.

[Alan Baker]

... and rumour has it soon to become a housing estate.

Good luck getting planning permission for a housing estate directly under short finals to East Midlands Airport.

[Rob Ryder]

Apoligies John & Alan as I can't remember the source , but I read that Wheatcroft Jr was selling Donington and this would be the final year of racing.

I'll see if I can dig up the article again...
Rob

[Geoff E]

I read that Wheatcroft Jr was selling Donington  ...

 

He sold it over 2 years ago apparently http://www.thebusine...ark-sold-to-msv

[GazChed]

There is a large amount of development going on in that area with 660 homes being built to the west of Castle Donington and a Freight Railway being built to service the East Midlands Gateway distribution centre next to East Midlands Airport .

[dwh43scale]

He sold it over 2 years ago apparently http://www.thebusine...ark-sold-to-msv

“MSV will take over the Donington Park circuit business and lease it to the Donington Park Estate for an initial 21 year term."

Or is that - lease it from ? I have assumed that DPE is KW.

[Alan Baker]

There is a large amount of development going on in that area with 660 homes being built to the west of Castle Donington and a Freight Railway being built to service the East Midlands Gateway distribution centre next to East Midlands Airport .

Both north of East Midlands Airport, there is no way anybody is going to build homes directly under the approach to the runway, which is where the circuit is.

[Tim Murray]

“MSV will take over the Donington Park circuit business and lease it to the Donington Park Estate for an initial 21 year term."

Or is that - lease it from ? I have assumed that DPE is KW.

According to MSV themselves in 2017 they leased the circuit from Kevin Wheatcroft for an initial period of 21 years:

In early 2017, MSV reached agreement with Kevin Wheatcroft, owner and operator of Donington Park, for MSV to take over the circuit business and to lease the Donington Park Estate for an initial 21 year term.

[dwh43scale]

Good to see the business press have a handle on how leases work ...

 

On the wider question of the future of the circuit - one assumes JP would not have entered into the lease, invested in the place (very effectively I might add) and then relinquish the lease early.

 

Although of course, I am reminded that everything has its price !

[dwh43scale]

Now back to FoS. Elsewhere, there are suggestions it might not many more years ...

[Lee Nicolle]

Good luck getting planning permission for a housing estate directly under short finals to East Midlands Airport.

World wide there is homes under flight paths. Generally up to the fence.

All 3 airports [1 International, 1 light aircraft and one military] here in Adelaide have homes around them. And more coming.

I had a business premises under planes coming in. I was sure they were trying to land on the workshop roof at times.

[Alan Baker]

World wide there is homes under flight paths. Generally up to the fence.

All 3 airports [1 International, 1 light aircraft and one military] here in Adelaide have homes around them. And more coming.

I had a business premises under planes coming in. I was sure they were trying to land on the workshop roof at times.

I suspect that in Adelaide (and many other places) it was a case of the airport extending toward the housing. Building homes 1000 metres from the runway threshold would be a non starter for many reasons.

[Stephen W]

I watched ITV4's second programme from the FoS and it was marginally better in content than the first however, David Green was again making stuff up as he went along and the dolly bird didn't appear to know that it is W.O. Bentley not W.A.! As for the "shoot-out", God give me strength! What an appallingly poor display, no wonder the FoS may be coming to an end after all "You can fool some of the people some of the time …………"