21 replies to this topic

[TerryS]

Autopics have just uploaded a pile of new photos to their site.

Amongst them is this photo of Max Stewart at Warwick Farm in 1968.

http://autopics.com....ting/#gallery-1

I attended most of the WF 1968 meetings but don't recall this incident. The timber fencing I can't place, or why at an angle here.

I can see the track has grid painting so must have been near the start.

Anyone have any ideas?

[Sash1]

The timber fencing is visible in this photo in pitlane, Graham Hill 1968.

 

 

And from that same site:

 

[Ray Bell]

I don't recall the incident, either...

Isn't that his first Rennmax? That might date it as very early.

[Wirra]

The first section of the fence was angled, one assumes to create a chicane and slow vehicles entering pit-lane.

 

[Ray Bell]

It looks like that was a late development in the fencing arrangement...

When did the Keith Royle crash happen? Msybe this changed after his crash?

[GreenMachine]

Would that have been private practice?  Considering the location, there are few people around.

 

Surmising, the car collected the end post (there is a big splinter at the likely impact site), and rotated around to face backwards.  If that was the sequence, it is strange that the LR appears undamaged - it suggests that the space between the two posts had no infill.  OTOH, I see a (replacement?) rail on the ground.

[Wirra]

A few things suggest to me it might not have been Max but John Christian. Ref: https://www.oldracin...om/rennmax/bn1/

 

The chap in racing suit, next to Alex Mildren, certainly isn't Max, nor is the helmet being carried by the woman Max's red colour.

 

By all means it's possible other drivers/pit crews hurried to the scene and might just have been there at the time of the photo.

Edited by Wirra, 15 July 2019 - 23:59.

[TerryS]

By coincidence I noticed a race car trailer for sale with a marvellous tribute to Max Stewart on its rear opening.

http://www.my105.com...06/id/21309/p/1

I believe this is from a Racing Car News cover.

[raceannouncer2003]

Maybe Clive Millis ?  There is reference to the BN2 crashing at Warwick Farm at this link:

 

https://www.oldracin...om/rennmax/bn2/

 

Vince H.

[Ray Bell]

Nor is the one wearing the driving suit Clive...

I would also suggest a private practice day.

[TerryS]

Could cooper 997 look up his programs and see who was in car #35 ?

[Paul Hamilton]

Nor is the one wearing the driving suit Clive...

I would also suggest a private practice day.

 

I suggest the following scenario:

• A private practice day as suggested by Ray;
• the driver was John Christian in the ex Max Stewart car;
• the planking on the angled section of the fence had been removed for some reason;  and
• the car arrived on the scene backwards and hit the end post of the fence section which ran alongside the grid making initial contact with its right rear wheel.  It then spun around part way through the unfenced gap with the left front of the car hitting the solitary end post of what would normally have been the angled section of fence.

[GreenMachine]

Paul, see post 6.
 
If 'the splinter' is a product of this incident, I don't see how your scenario would work.  But the splinter may be from some different incident, in which case your scenario is feasible.  I wonder about the RR though, looking at the damage I would have thought that if the RR wheel/suspension had taken the initial impact, it would have ripped the whole corner off?  I am reading that photo as the suspension is still connecting the chassis and wheel, maybe not quite the way the designer intended though
 
There are no real clues (none at all if the splinter is discarded).  No skid marks, no clear imagery of the location and extent of the crash damage.  For those who have driven there, would a tankslapper or simple spin out of Leger have likely ended here?  Those tyres look pretty fresh too, maybe cold tyres played a part if it was a spin or tankslapper?  Paul, would this be how you see the car arriving backwards here?

Or is it a misjudgement of pit entry?  The lack of skid marks may indicate this, in which case maybe the splinter is the initial impact point. I also wonder if this section of pit wall is still under construction, hence no infill? If it is new construction, and the driver was familiar with the pre-existing WF pit layout, it is possible that without infill the combination of seeing what the driver expected to see (no angled pit wall) and the small visual impact of the single post with a horizontal top rail may have caught him out.

 

Aaah!  So much speculation, so few facts!

[Paul Taylor]

If it was going to make a guess using the data we have, I would also say it was John Christian. His BN1 had this narrow rollbar design, whereas the BN2 had a wider, more triangular rollbar.

 

Also it looks like this here may be the ex-Max Stewart, Clive Mills BN2 crash: https://forums.autos...cuit/?p=8169171

[Paul Hamilton]

Paul, see post 6.
 
If 'the splinter' is a product of this incident, I don't see how your scenario would work.  But the splinter may be from some different incident, in which case your scenario is feasible.  I wonder about the RR though, looking at the damage I would have thought that if the RR wheel/suspension had taken the initial impact, it would have ripped the whole corner off?  I am reading that photo as the suspension is still connecting the chassis and wheel, maybe not quite the way the designer intended though
 
There are no real clues (none at all if the splinter is discarded).  No skid marks, no clear imagery of the location and extent of the crash damage.  For those who have driven there, would a tankslapper or simple spin out of Leger have likely ended here?  Those tyres look pretty fresh too, maybe cold tyres played a part if it was a spin or tankslapper?  Paul, would this be how you see the car arriving backwards here?

Or is it a misjudgement of pit entry?  The lack of skid marks may indicate this, in which case maybe the splinter is the initial impact point. I also wonder if this section of pit wall is still under construction, hence no infill? If it is new construction, and the driver was familiar with the pre-existing WF pit layout, it is possible that without infill the combination of seeing what the driver expected to see (no angled pit wall) and the small visual impact of the single post with a horizontal top rail may have caught him out.

 

Aaah!  So much speculation, so few facts!

 

I don't think the splinter should be seen as part of the crash.  Its more likely an indication of the general condition of the fence and the need for the repair work apparently in progress.  One of the planks  removed from the angled section of fencing has been left lying alongside the fence pending completion of whatever work was going on.  There was nothing new about that section of fence at the time of this incident  -  it had been there for years and was probably simply under repair.  The need for repair may well have been caused by a previous similar incident as I can confirm from personal experience that a big lose coming out of Leger could easily take you into that fence.  I took my Turner right through the fence some time in 1969 and I was certainly not the first nor the last to do so!!

 

I still think my scenario stands up well.  As you say an initial impact on the right rear could be expected to take the whole corner off altogether and it pretty much has done just that.  The impact might not necessarily have been at a very high speed as there was quite a lot of ground to cover between Leger and this fence so the car could have lost a lot of speed in a spin.  Unfortunately my own incident was at VERY high speed as I fought too hard to stay on top of it and went backwards right through the fence without losing much speed at all and Leger was quite a quick corner.

[Lee Nicolle]

How or who I have no idea, but the bolts that would hold the timber fence on are still there in the uprights. To me it seems that the car has come in forwards from the lane and I presume this would be the entry gate not exit so is quite weird

[lyntonh]

The area involved at the 1971 Tasman meeting.

[Catalina Park]

When did Bob Holden demolish that bit of fence with his Escort?

[Lee Nicolle]

When did Bob Holden demolish that bit of fence with his Escort?

That piece of footage is on You Tube somewhere,  I feel around 1970.

Vid is loaded by Super 100mph. Though it really shows very little if the incident, Mk1 Escort.

[TerryS]

I'll advise Autopics that the description should be changed to JOHN CHRISTIAN, but unfortunately based on previous experience I would be surprised if anything happens.

[Paul Taylor]

Someone from Autopics obviously reads this forum, because it has now been changed to say John Christian.

[TerryS]

Someone from Autopics obviously reads this forum, because it has now been changed to say John Christian.

My comment was based on actual experience.

In October 2018 (i.e. 10 months ago) it was identified that 7 new listings on Autopics had incorrect descriptions, as per this thread.

https://forums.autos...identification/

I notified Autopics then and of the 7 errors, 3 are still not corrected.

These are 63434, 65587 and 65589.