53 replies to this topic

[GenJackRipper]

One thing that one realizes when following F1 and racing in general is how different tracks can be in terms of size.
Some tracks are sprawling and take up an enormous area, but others are truly efficient in their use of land.
I was reminded by this watching the fly over shots from Hockenheim. Especially with it being surrounded by forest, you see what a small area the circuit occupies.

Which got me thinking; which permanent circuit takes up the smallest amout of land? Is it Hockenheim? Or maybe Circuit Catalunya? The latter being built just outside of Barcelona, I imagine they had to carefully plan it to not having to buy too much expensive land.

(Permanent circuit means somewhere where there is racing year around. Otherwise Monaco would take the win quite easily )

[loki]

Martinsville...

[Currahee]

Knockhill

[LucaP]

Oschersleben makes very careful use of the available terrain

And in fact it's awful

[jee]

Adria Raceway

[NixxxoN]

I'll leave this here so everyone can see.

 

Catalunya is surprisingly small, Monza is surprisingly large. Of the F1 calendar, Catalunya is probably the smallest and Monza and Spa are the two largest

 

http://wordpress.car...-to-scale-2.jpg

 

Edited by NixxxoN, 29 July 2019 - 19:32.

[AustinF1]

COTA is pretty big. Not sure how it relates to the others though.

[MLC]

Very cool, thanks for sharing. I never realized that Avus was quite that long!

[Cornholio]

Probably not the answer but the old Interlagos always comes to mind at least in terms of space taken to track length ratio.

[chr1s]

Considering it is in the middle of nowhere, Magny-Cours takes up very little area.

[Risil]

Probably not the answer but the old Interlagos always comes to mind at least in terms of space taken to track length ratio.

 

I've found an area calculator that runs off Google Maps, if anyone's interested in doing this properly: https://www.calcmaps.com/map-area/

 

"Old" Interlagos was 4.893 miles, in a patch of land measuring about 0.262 sq miles. Giving us a "miles of track per square mile" ratio of 4.893 / 0.262 = 18.68.

 

 

Modern Interlagos by contrast is 2.677 miles divided by 0.183 sq miles, giving us a still pretty impressive ratio of 14.63.

 

[LucaP]

Adria Raceway

 

another "gem" ... 

[red stick]

Using that feature, Lime Rock runs to about 82 acres.

[AustinF1]

I've found an area calculator that runs off Google Maps, if anyone's interested in doing this properly: https://www.calcmaps.com/map-area/

 

"Old" Interlagos was 4.893 miles, in a patch of land measuring about 0.262 sq miles. Giving us a "miles of track per square mile" ratio of 4.893 / 0.262 = 18.68.

 

 

Modern Interlagos by contrast is 2.677 miles divided by 0.183 sq miles, giving us a still pretty impressive ratio of 14.63.

 

Using that feature on google maps and only taking into account the actual footprint of the track, COTA comes in with a similar number of square miles, which is surprising to me. 

Edited by AustinF1, 29 July 2019 - 20:45.

[Risil]

I'm not sure whether we should take into account the track's exact outline or make sure that it forms a natural shape without lots of squiggly bits. I think the latter but that might just be because I'm lazy and it's easier to draw right angles. See how quickly we get into academic disputes!

[AustinF1]

I'm not sure whether we should take into account the track's exact outline or make sure that it forms a natural shape without lots of squiggly bits. I think the latter but that might just be because I'm lazy and it's easier to draw right angles. See how quickly we get into academic disputes!

No I'm not disputing your result at all! I'm just surprised at the result for COTA, which seems huge to me. Maybe my perception is off re: what a large racing circuit is.

Edited by AustinF1, 29 July 2019 - 20:51.

[Risil]

No I'm not disputing your result at all! I'm just surprised at the result for COTA, which seems huge to me. Maybe my perception is off re: what a large racing circuit is.

I think long and narrow ones will have high ratios simply because there's not much unused land in the infield. I have a sneaking feeling that AVUS or Suzuka will win.

[Augurk]

I've found an area calculator that runs off Google Maps, if anyone's interested in doing this properly: https://www.calcmaps.com/map-area/

 

"Old" Interlagos was 4.893 miles, in a patch of land measuring about 0.262 sq miles. Giving us a "miles of track per square mile" ratio of 4.893 / 0.262 = 18.68.

 

 

Modern Interlagos by contrast is 2.677 miles divided by 0.183 sq miles, giving us a still pretty impressive ratio of 14.63.

 

Sweet. Zandvoort seems to have a ratio of about 15.9.

[GenJackRipper]

I'm not sure whether we should take into account the track's exact outline or make sure that it forms a natural shape without lots of squiggly bits. I think the latter but that might just be because I'm lazy and it's easier to draw right angles. See how quickly we get into academic disputes!

I take in the track and the area around it. Meaning anything inside the fences; pits, grandstands etc.

[azza200]

Lime Rock Park

Virginia Raceway

Laguna Seca

Canadian Tire Motorsport Park (Mosport)

Road Atlanta 

Oulton Park

Brands Hatch 

[Bleu]

Valencia (Ricardo Tormo) is also very tightly built track

[Rodaknee]

Buckmore Park

[f1paul]

Nordschleife is quite big isn't it.

[scheivlak]

I think long and narrow ones will have high ratios simply because there's not much unused land in the infield. I have a sneaking feeling that AVUS or Suzuka will win.

Salzburgring wouldn't be far off too then.

[Sterzo]

Lydden Hill would be my guess.

 

Buckmore Park

You obviously didn't go to the indoor kart circuit at Maidstone which was in a rather small shed. However, if the question was "excitement per square metre" I think I'd vote for your nomination of Buckmore.

[LucaP]

Some Tilke tracks seem big, but they can squeeze into a smallest area if needed. Some even curl up to fit in a toilet bottom.

[r4mses]

I'll leave this here so everyone can see.

 

Catalunya is surprisingly small, Monza is surprisingly large. Of the F1 calendar, Catalunya is probably the smallest and Monza and Spa are the two largest

 

http://wordpress.car...-to-scale-2.jpg

 

 

 

this is plain awesome           

[Cynic2]

I think long and narrow ones will have high ratios simply because there's not much unused land in the infield. I have a sneaking feeling that AVUS or Suzuka will win.

 

 

You may well be right, at least for the original Avus track as built in the late 1920s (although at least one reference says it was begun in 1907).  It’s a curious track,  probably the longest at just over 12 miles, but given that the total width is that of a four-lane freeway it might be a contender for using the least space.  (It was built as a race track, but later incorporated into Germany’s freeway/autobahn system.)

 

In some ways it was a very easy track:  six miles down one side of a freeway, a banked 45 degree U-turn, six miles back on the other side of the freeway to another banked U-turn which takes you onto the front straight.  Two straights and two banked turns surfaced in brick, probably the steepest banking of any track.  (For comparison, Daytona is banked at 31 degrees.)

 

Mercedes and Auto Union used the track for various speed record attempts.

 

If you  calculate only the surface of the track and the space (a few feet) between the two straights it might well be a contender for the least land used.

 

Much of the track still exists in Berlin, but with little to explain its original use.

Edited by Cynic2, 29 July 2019 - 23:40.

[NixxxoN]

Nordschleife is quite big isn't it.

 

No ****.   But still gets dwarfed by Isle of Man's Snaefell track

[Risil]

In some ways it was a very easy track:  six miles down one side of a freeway, a banked 45 degree U-turn, six miles back on the other side of the freeway to another banked U-turn which takes you onto the front straight.  Two straights and two banked turns surfaced in brick, probably the steepest banking of any track.  (For comparison, Daytona is banked at 31 degrees.)

 
45 degrees is very high (more than the old Monza, Fuji or Brooklands) but Montlhery circuit outside Paris had higher, and I believe the less well-remembered Meadowdale circuit near Chicago did too. I bet there were some old pre-war board tracks in America with greater than 45 degree banking, and the little-used but still surviving Sitges track near Barcelona apparently went to 60 degrees. Terrifying.

[Fatgadget]

Lydden Hill would be my guess.

 

You obviously didn't go to the indoor kart circuit at Maidstone which was in a rather small shed. However, if the question was "excitement per square metre" I think I'd vote for your nomination of Buckmore.

Yep. Lydden's layout makes it possible to view the circuit in it's entirety no matter where you might be as a spectator.

[Collombin]

I bet there were some old pre-war board tracks in America with greater than 45 degree banking

Correct.

[Berner]

How about Montreal? Skinny enough to throw a rock over. Deduct the rowing basin, municipal land at east end, sheds for rowing sculls and the Mercier Bridge at the west end, and you're left with maybe a large football field! 

[Imperial]

Circuit of Wales...? :-)

[muramasa]

　

Hungaroring is surprisingly huge, Monaco is surprisingly big and Sepang is surprisingly tiny

Edited by muramasa, 30 July 2019 - 16:31.

[Peat]

Martinsville...

 

I see your Martinsville, I raise you a Bowman Grey

[Peat]

Tsukuba is dinky.

 

About a 58 acre site, including 3x separate circuits and the carpark!

 

Edited by Peat, 30 July 2019 - 16:45.

[Rinehart]

I've found an area calculator that runs off Google Maps, if anyone's interested in doing this properly: https://www.calcmaps.com/map-area/

 

"Old" Interlagos was 4.893 miles, in a patch of land measuring about 0.262 sq miles. Giving us a "miles of track per square mile" ratio of 4.893 / 0.262 = 18.68.

 

 

Modern Interlagos by contrast is 2.677 miles divided by 0.183 sq miles, giving us a still pretty impressive ratio of 14.63.

 

Bristol Motor Speedway comes in at Perimeter: 1272 Meters | 4173 Feet | 0.790 Miles | 1.272 Km

 

Brands Hatch Indy Perimeter: 1947 Meters | 6386 Feet | 1.210 Miles | 1.947 Km

[muramasa]

It's funny that Tsukuba is even included there lol coz it's very local track not even used for domestic major series, but I heard before that it's kinda well known because it's included on whatever popular racing game.

[LucaP]

Yes, but if I remember correctly it did at least host national F3 and JGTC? (Or the national touring car series)

[Risil]

Sounds like Anglesey or Castle Combe in the UK. I wouldn't complain if people were constantly talking about them, they're lovely tracks.

[Retrofly]

Lydden Hill surely?

 

 

Used all year for national series on both 2 wheels and 4, also rally cross and I event raced a moped around there once

Edited by Retrofly, 31 July 2019 - 15:43.

[PayasYouRace]

Wondering if Lydden is smaller or bigger than Mallory...

[JeePee]

It's funny that Tsukuba is even included there lol coz it's very local track not even used for domestic major series, but I heard before that it's kinda well known because it's included on whatever popular racing game.

Yes. It is featured in both the Gran Turismo and Forza Motorsport series (most populair racing titles on Playstation and Xbox), which means millions and millions of people now this little track.

[BRG]

I propose Croix-en-Ternois in France which is slightly smaller than your pocket hankerchief.

[GenJackRipper]

Again; I'm taking into account all the area within the fencing/gates.
Meaning, pits, stands etc.

[ensign14]

 

The minuscule Roskilde.  This hosted Formula 1. Twice.

[ensign14]

 

This is Roskilde today.  Judging by the scale it's no more than 300 yards square.

[Rodaknee]

This is the site that Joe Saward claims will be used for a London Docklands F1 race.  It's appox 700 x 160 yards.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Rodaknee, 01 August 2019 - 01:26.

[taz]

Current F1 calendar:

Spa, Albert Park and Silverstone are all approx. 1.1 km²

then Monza and Baku, 0.9km²

the other tracks somewhere between 0.4 and 0.8km²

Japan/suzuka only is 0.34km²

But Monaco surely is the most compact with only 0.110km²

 

i used the map area calculator mentioned above, and followed mostly the natural shapes of the tracks.

Edited by taz, 02 August 2019 - 12:52.