126 replies to this topic

[Atreiu]

Fake pit stops don't bother me. Not knowing what the stewards consider a dangerous release does bother me a lot more.

Edited by Atreiu, 06 August 2019 - 12:16.

[Jovanotti]

OP has a point. F1 goes out of its way to achieve more safety (including butchering tracks and cars), but has no problem with dozens of people standing a meter away from cars passing at 80 kph for no apparent reason.

Why not implement some kind of line on pit entry, similar to the SC line? Let's say teams can send the crews out from the time when their driver enters S3 up to this pit entry line. If the driver passes the line without entering the pits, the crew has to be withdrawn immediately. Less exposure time for the pit crew and would still allow for dummy stops.

Edited by Jovanotti, 06 August 2019 - 12:23.

[pdac]

Pit stop strategy is often changed on the fly, in reaction to what your competitors are doing. If you think teams won’t change their minds at the last minute, you’re not paying enough attention.

 

I guess it comes down to whether you consider pit stops to be part of the action or simply a necessity due to the limited life of a component.

[PayasYouRace]

I guess it comes down to whether you consider pit stops to be part of the action or simply a necessity due to the limited life of a component.

Why should it be either or? No matter why you’re making a pit stop it’ll be part of how a race develops and there might be reasons to change your strategy at a a moments notice.

[Nobody]

It came with the speed limit rule after 1994 Imola pit lane accident.

I thought that was only the pit lane speed limit

[redreni]

I think Alesi lost one of his X-wings in 1998 due to that kind of incident.

 

Ralf Schumacher tagged an airline and brought the whole gantry crashing down onto his crew in a DTM qualy session. It was rather a nasty incident.

[Sterzo]

Ralf Schumacher tagged an airline and brought the whole gantry crashing down onto his crew in a DTM qualy session. It was rather a nasty incident.

...and it seems amazingly crude in a sophisticated sport, and unsafe in  a highly regulated one, that a man from another team has to stand out in the pit road holding back the dangly bits so a car can drive past.

[Clatter]

Why should it be either or? No matter why you’re making a pit stop it’ll be part of how a race develops and there might be reasons to change your strategy at a a moments notice.

It still can be, but the teams will have to change the way they work. If they come out of the garage then they have to commit, other wise stay in the garage with everything ready until the driver commits to the pits.

[redreni]

...and it seems amazingly crude in a sophisticated sport, and unsafe in  a highly regulated one, that a man from another team has to stand out in the pit road holding back the dangly bits so a car can drive past.

 

Maybe. On the other hand, arguably it's a nice bit of etiquette.

 

I do quite like the "ghostbusters" look, though, that some teams have adopted for their pit crewmen in categories like Blancpain. Because they are limited to two people and one airgun for the wheel and tyre changes, the airgun man wears an airbottle on his back, like a rucksack, with a short airline from the bottle to the wheel gun. This gives them much better freedom of movement and makes it easier to keep the airline clear of the car.

 

Not suggesting F1 should limit teams to two people. Having an unlimited number is what makes an F1 pitstop such an education in coordination and teamwork - a gang of 14 or 15 people swarming around and descending on a car as one without getting in each other's way has to be choreographed to the nth degree.

 

I just wouldn't let them over the white line and into the slow lane until and unless their car was in its box and stopped, that's all. In that scenario, whatever preparations teams would normally make for an imminent pit stop, or any dummy preparations, would have to take place in their own garage and not in a place where it might interfere with the next door team's pit stop.

Edited by redreni, 06 August 2019 - 16:07.

[Kalmake]

I just wouldn't let them over the white line and into the slow lane until and unless their car was in its box and stopped, that's all. In that scenario, whatever preparations teams would normally make for an imminent pit stop, or any dummy preparations, would have to take place in their own garage and not in a place where it might interfere with the next door team's pit stop.

I'm not sure having 20 people rushing over the line would be safer than what they do now.

[ANF]

Ralf Schumacher tagged an airline and brought the whole gantry crashing down onto his crew in a DTM qualy session. It was rather a nasty incident.

[jimjimjeroo]

Teams know their various strategies just write them down place in sealed envelope hand to stewards. If there is an issue they can open open post race.

[MikeTekRacing]

Teams know their various strategies just write them down place in sealed envelope hand to stewards. If there is an issue they can open open post race.

great. that surely allows for flexibility...What if they say lap 17 and they decide it's 18. Is 17 callled a fake pitstop?

[cjm321190]

Is this rule a hangover from the refuelling days and that is why it is one of F1’s many not enforced rules.

[Stephane]

OP has a point. F1 goes out of its way to achieve more safety (including butchering tracks and cars), but has no problem with dozens of people standing a meter away from cars passing at 80 kph for no apparent reason.

Why not implement some kind of line on pit entry, similar to the SC line? Let's say teams can send the crews out from the time when their driver enters S3 up to this pit entry line. If the driver passes the line without entering the pits, the crew has to be withdrawn immediately. Less exposure time for the pit crew and would still allow for dummy stops.

 

That's what's happening now, more or less.

[ANF]

Is this rule a hangover from the refuelling days and that is why it is one of F1’s many not enforced rules.

I'm pretty sure the rule was introduced immediately after Imola 1994 where four mechanics were injured by a wheel that came off Michele Alboreto's car.

As you can see, the pit lane was absolutely crowded with people https://youtu.be/-985kn-TW7o who were not expecting a stop – there were just standing there during the race.

After Imola, the FIA introduced a pit lane speed limit (speeds in the pit lane had been unrestricted during races) and team personnel were "only allowed in the pit lane immediately before they are required to work on a car and must withdraw as soon as the work is complete".

[redreni]

I'm not sure having 20 people rushing over the line would be safer than what they do now.

 

Well, they're not obliged to have 20 people working on the car.

 

Let's not forget that what they do now is kneel on the tarmac while somebody drives a car towards them at 50km/h. Even when it's raining and the approaching car might be on worn, cold slicks. Then the signal is given for the car to leave while the wheel guns are still attached.

[7MGTEsup]

I think the only way to effectively enforce such a ban would be to have a rule that other racing series have which is to not allow mechanics out of the garage until the car has come to a complete stop in the box.

 

That would definitely make the stops much more interesting and more room for errors.

[7MGTEsup]

...and it seems amazingly crude in a sophisticated sport, and unsafe in  a highly regulated one, that a man from another team has to stand out in the pit road holding back the dangly bits so a car can drive past.

 

With the power of electric impact guns I'm surprised they still use air driven impact guns. My dad has a 3/4 inch Milwaukee gun that I undoes anything you put it on.

[Kalmake]

Well, they're not obliged to have 20 people working on the car.

 

Let's not forget that what they do now is kneel on the tarmac while somebody drives a car towards them at 50km/h. Even when it's raining and the approaching car might be on worn, cold slicks. Then the signal is given for the car to leave while the wheel guns are still attached.

Well, the post I replied to didn't suggest reducing the number of people involved. As long as it's allowed they will use about that many.

[Kalmake]

With the power of electric impact guns I'm surprised they still use air driven impact guns. My dad has a 3/4 inch Milwaukee gun that I undoes anything you put it on.

Still weaker and heavier. F1 guns are like this https://www.demon-tw...nut-gun-552747/

[redreni]

Well, the post I replied to didn't suggest reducing the number of people involved. As long as it's allowed they will use about that many.

 

Not necessarily - the variable that I want to change is where the pit crew has to be when the car is arriving, and where they have to get to before it can leave (in both cases, out of the slow lane and on the garage side of the white line).

 

Under those conditions, it may turn out to be better to have a smaller pit crew, because the time taken for people to get to the car to do their work, and away from the car so that it can leave, will be a limiting factor. You don't want them getting in each other's way. It would be interesting to see how the teams dealt with it.

[Jerem]

Mercedes did it again today. I think they also call the director before faking a pitstop, because you see them ready in the pit lane for a long time, whereas when they're actually pitting you don't see it until the car has stopped.

[BuddyHolly]

Seems they do it almost every race now.

[Fatgadget]

With the power of electric impact guns I'm surprised they still use air driven impact guns. My dad has a 3/4 inch Milwaukee gun that I undoes anything you put it on.

 

Still weaker and heavier. F1 guns are like this https://www.demon-tw...nut-gun-552747/

How much?

Six grand??

[SenorSjon]

Seems they do it almost every race now.

 

Because they can get away with it...

[Frank Tuesday]

I'm not sure having 20 people rushing over the line would be safer than what they do now.

You could just make them stay in the garage.  Any work done on the car must be done in the garage. 

 

The teams could set it up to pull into one side and out the other.  Or they could build giant lazy susans that will turn the car (and mechanics) around while the team is working on it.