148 replies to this topic

[Michael Ferner]

... for me, at least, was twenty years ago yesterday. There's still not a shred of a doubt in my mind that the decision to reinstate the Ferraris as 1-2 winners of the Malaysian Grand Prix the previous weekend was motivated purely by commercial considerations, to avoid a drop in viewing figures for the following Japanese Grand Prix. It wasn't the first strike in this war of commerce over sport, and quite possibly not the worst, but it was the final drop in the bucket, the straw that broke the camel's back. A lifelong passion ruined. I still watched most Grands Prix over the next couple of years, a hard habit to break, but my heart was no longer in it; then I made a full stop. It's over. Period. Thank you Messrs Eccle$tone & Mo$ley, I hope you choke on the truffels F1 ® bought you. At least I didn't contribute the last twenty years

Edited by Michael Ferner, 24 October 2019 - 17:24.

[uffen]

For me the slow death started with the semi-automatic gearbox. Then driver aids were added (and partially banned later). Then the data wars started, then the emasculation of circuits, the ever restrictive rules, the hybrid engines, and the constant talk of being "the pinnacle." The constant tinkering with the rules and procedures, the shunning of fans, the abandonment of much of Europe, the double points fracas, the list is too long. But, every blunder and the ongoing talk of reverse grids etc. all contributed to the water drip torture. Well, the halo was the straw that broke my back. The halo is all I can see when I glance at the cars now. 42 years, 44 races (live) in 11 countries and I was done.

I still follow on Autosport, but the sport sells me no more tickets, the televised races don't get my eyeballs, and Autocourse lost a loyal customer.

[BRG]

[Catalina Park]

F1 died in 1951. Everything after that is pure commercialism.

[sabrejet]

It died the day I discovered every other form of motorsport. Apart from drifting.

[Eric Dunsdon]

When Grand Prix racing became 'Eff Wun'!  (actually, it was at the end of 1958).

Edited by Eric Dunsdon, 25 October 2019 - 08:45.

[pacificquay]

It isn't dead.

[kayemod]

I never thought it would happen, but I've joined all the old miseries who've already posted on this thread, what little remains of the "sport" just doesn't grab my attention any more. This year I haven't bothered to record most of the races, and haven't watched most of those I did, I last attended an actual race in the early 1980s. What I hate more than anything else though is the, for want of a better word, relentless "popularisation" of everything, the endless celeb-based witter that wastes the first hour of most race broadcasts and more to come after the race has finished, mostly with posers with little understanding of what's really going on, and next to no grasp of technicalities, though of course, they're catering for today's "effwun" followers, who know and understand little more. We'll have to accept it fellow TNF old farts, what Grand Prix racing has been turned into just isn't for us or aimed at us any more.

 

Some specifics that whiten my knuckles of my TV armchair. Push to pass drag reduction, what happened to actual racing? tyres that only last a few laps unless the driver babies them, personality-free drivers, and the way almost everyone except Jake Humphries and Charles himself, willfully mispronounce "Leclerc".

[RCH]

I seem to remember DSJ asking the question, "when did you lose interest in F1" or something similar many years ago. 

 

For me a number of triggers: the day the works Lotus turned up looking like fag packets; the time it became obvious a certain Mr Ecclestone was taking charge; the time "F1" somehow became divorced from all other motorsport; the time pundits started talking about your team mate being the man you most wanted to beat..... and on and on.

[Ray Bell]

It's a horrible complicated mess, isn't it?

Yes, the DRS (are they the right letters?) setup is a complication and a menace, 'strategies' that can win or lose depending on whether or not you're going to win or lose, all of that.

But, to be honest, on those rare occasions I do watch a race on TV these days the team we have commentating don't do a real bad job. I don't know who they are, except that I think Martin Brundle might be one of them, but they do explain some of the technicalities and treat the viewer/listener as if they might actually know a thing or two.

But the races are shown here at ungodly hours, maybe they figure only the die-hards will sit up and wait for them?

[Charlieman]

I'll start with a TNF truism: We each have a golden era, usually about the time we started to follow F1 closely. My golden era would be the mid to late 1970s and F1 has died for me many times since then.

 

The first demise would be in the early 1980s. I coped with the FICA/FOCA/CSI/FIA battles for control -- an extra dimension in some respects -- but became miffed when entry rules required two cars and banned customer cars. I got over it when new entrants emerged, often backed by flamboyant sponsors with unusual backgrounds. And the racing was pretty good.

 

I lost interest again when the Prost/Senna rivalry turned into irresponsible track collisions. I regained my interest watching F1 on TV with family members. I was never a Mansell maniac, but I admired his determination. And the racing was pretty good.

 

Benetton team cheating soured my enjoyment in the early 90s. And I never understood Michael Schumacher's first at any cost attitude -- he was a great driver but failed to learn how to be a great sportsman. I felt compelled to watch F1 to see Benetton and Schumacher being occasionally beaten. And the racing was pretty good.

 

The Schumacher/Ferrari domination years turned me off again. There are a few drivers of that era -- Mika Hakkinen, for example -- who I failed to appreciate from lack of attention. Some of the racing was good. But the US GP farce at Indianapolis 2005 almost killed my remaining interest.

 

A new bunch of drivers turned up. I'm too old to be a fan boy but Lewis Hamilton was a breath of fresh air for F1. He kicked over the applecart, use whatever cliche you like. And the racing was pretty good.

 

And so it goes on. Like any sport, F1 attracts chancers, wideboys, cheats, blowhards, money grabbers, nomarks and plain, simple idiots. I can cope with their presence as long as the racing is good. I can control my contempt for DRS if it doesn't distract from serious overtaking. I like reading how F1 has banned technology that was hypothesised in the 1980s.

 

I'll never again feel the excitement experienced during my personal golden era. I'll switch off if a race fails to appeal. But I'll keep an overview so that I don't miss the glorious unexpected moments.

[GeoffR]

Two things; for me it firstly died when they went from true F1 engines to the hybrid 'vacuum cleaner' ones we have now. The second one was the very sudden transition from FTW to pay TV (in Aus anyway). That really was the killer blow.

[2F-001]

Whilst it clearly isn’t dead, I do fear it is harbouring the seeds of a very serious illness - and whilst not ignoring the symptoms entirely, its self-diagnosis seems to be flawed and paying little heed to its broader well-being.

And true to its male-focused persona, it won’t visit the doctor for fear of intrusive examination - or, worse yet, surgery.

(By the way, I find the hybrid technology fascinating. Whether or not contributes to captivating racing is another matter.)

Edited by 2F-001, 25 October 2019 - 11:07.

[Lee Nicolle]

A death of many cuts. Sport has gone backwards for 30 years [and that in my time]

It has not been a sport for a long time, just reality TV. Quite real and less scripted than most. And then it became pay TV. Again to the detriment of motorsport world wide.

But all the flappy wings and gearlevers, junker hybrid 'things'  with fuel flow figures and then the handle. The final straw.

[Charlieman]

tyres that only last a few laps unless the driver babies them

Has there ever been a time when drivers haven't had to look after tyres in F1 or GP racing? Looking after tyres, creating a strategy, spoofing the opposition is part of the game.

 

In 1976, when tyre competition was open but only one firm* supplied tyres, drivers could go racing in the expectation that tyres would last 200 miles. Mostly the tyres went that far but some cars and drivers struggled. Some teams discretely used Goodyear tyres provided for private testing during practice sessions.

 

 

* Non-Goodyear tyres were used by Japanese teams at the Japanese GP 76.

[PhantomRaspberryBlower]

It isn't dead.

'Its pining for the Fords' -

 

(DFV, and with apologies to Cleese et al)

Edited by PhantomRaspberryBlower, 25 October 2019 - 11:23.

[Charlieman]

(By the way, I find the hybrid technology fascinating. Whether or not contributes to captivating racing is another matter.)

Hybrid technology fascinates me. Plonking a generator on a turbocharger shaft to store surplus energy was an idea I read about 40 years ago. It was perceived as something for battle tanks. It now works in F1. The only problem is that it is too expensive and commercially irrelevant.

 

I love how the ground shakes when a Can Am or F5000 revs up, but I like my ear drums too much to indulge often. My preference has always been the extraction of performance from small cheap things. It wouldn't take a lot to make F1 cheaper and more relevant.

[uffen]

Has there ever been a time when drivers haven't had to look after tyres in F1 or GP racing? Looking after tyres, creating a strategy, spoofing the opposition is part of the game.

 

In 1976, when tyre competition was open but only one firm* supplied tyres, drivers could go racing in the expectation that tyres would last 200 miles. Mostly the tyres went that far but some cars and drivers struggled. Some teams discretely used Goodyear tyres provided for private testing during practice sessions.

 

 

* Non-Goodyear tyres were used by Japanese teams at the Japanese GP 76.

True, but earlier on the drivers had to avoid abusing the tires, now they have to come at it from the other side - avoid stressing the tires. Oh, and the age of delicate tires was mandated by the rules. Another of the thousand cuts.

[Gary Davies]

F1 died in 1951. Everything after that is pure commercialism.

A contribution fully in the tradition of this - 

 

 

       

[10kDA]

F1 is dead to me, though it seems to keep coming around year after year. To paraphrase Frank Zappa - "F1 isn't dead, it just smells funny." My interest faded as the regular F1 drivers stopped running outside of the WDC. It seems nonsensical that professional drivers racing something other than the self-styled "pinnacle" has become a News Item.

[10kDA]

 It wouldn't take a lot to make F1 cheaper and more relevant.

 

I'm very tired of hearing the bogus notion of "trickle-down technology" to our everyday drivers. How about eliminating the cadre of engineers in their backstage bunkers monitoring everything via telemetry?

[E1pix]

After witnessing and weeping over the death of Can-Am from turbos, I stood at the Glen in '77 and feared the same with the first Renault passing by. By '82, my dread came alive.

But wait! 1989 brought real hope. Those Godawful vacuums were gone and a new dawn of tones emerged. With it came beautiful chassis and the hills were alive with the right voices again.

Then came 1996. Though I continued to love it as self-expected, it's been a weedy path ever since.

Now I'd rather watch a good endurance or Formula Ford race.

Edited by E1pix, 25 October 2019 - 22:25.

[Bloggsworth]

It died the day I discovered every other form of motorsport. Apart from drifting.

 

Is drifting motorsport? I hadn't realised, I thought it was just showing off...

[chr1s]

Safety car for me, unnecessary and unfair. The virtual safety car system has gone some way to righting this wrong but the damage is done so far as I'm concerned.

[Jack-the-Lad]

'Its pining for the Fords' -
 
(DFV, and with apologies to Cleese et al)

....and no apologies necessary!

[funformula]

The day Formula 1 died...a question that comes up again and again in every decade..

In the late 60´s, early 70´s the "real" race fans moaned about the so called modern type of racing drivers which seemed so totally focussed on succeeding in the sport, keeping themselves fit and healthy.

They used crash helmets, safety belts and raised their voice for safer race tracks. No longer heroic men behind the wheel but boys anonymized under their helmets hidden in their sponsored cars 

 

Now, 50 years later these "boys" are seen as "heroes" whereas the current F1 state is getting critizied...wonder how it will be seen in 50 years

 

I think we all tend to glorify the decade we get hooked to the sport, mostly in our early teens.

For me I don´t have a special interest in the cigar shaped 60´s style cars nor the earlier ones, but from the 70´s onwards it´s the cars, the races, the drivers, the helmets...all the stuff that means "F1" to me.

That all fizzeled out during the early 2000 with the ongoing "Schumania" and all the politics and team orders during that time.

For me the cars weren´t "sexy" anymore, the helmet designs getting duller, the drivers all so political correct, money rules over talent…...and hey, now i`m going to sound like the "real" race fans from 50 years ago 

 

But life is a constant change and development as is the Sport and the enthusiasm of the youth is getting softened by age and experience and the look back may be falsified by rose tinted sunglasses.

In every decade there were dull races, drivers earning their seat not by talent but money, team orders, politics…

 

I watched F1 this year live in Hockenheim on Saturday and was REALLY impressed by the sheer cornering speed of the current F1 cars although they are nowhere near as "sexy" as my favorite cars from the 90´s

But current F1 has and will find their "real" fans...and I bet they will also moan in 50 years 

Edited by funformula, 26 October 2019 - 10:37.

[Sterzo]

Is anyone able to cite the first known instance of anyone saying motor racing had gone to pot and was not worth it any more? The earliest I can think of was Charles Jarrott in 1906.

[E1pix]

Looks like he was right! ;-)

[Lee Nicolle]

Is drifting motorsport? I hadn't realised, I thought it was just showing off...

Motorsports version of synchronised swimming. Some skill involved but judged not won.

[ensign14]

Can I suggest a few other moments when motor racing died?

 

The Paris-Bordeaux-Paris when they disqualified the winner for not being a four seater.

 

The 1902 Gordon-Bennett which Britain won even though there were about six French cars ahead that simply had not been nominated for the sub-race.

 

The 1908 Grand Prix decided on team orders.

 

The 1926 French Grand Prix which had one finisher out of three starters.

 

The 1930 Belgian Grand Prix when Bouriat had to sit still for 150 seconds on the last lap waiting to be overtaken by his team leader.

 

Loads of GPs when a team plugged a fresh driver into a car at the expense of other drivers who had to go the whole distance themselves.

 

1966 Le Mans when Ford killed Ken Miles' one shot at immortality.

 

The scrutineers disqualifying Mini and Tyrrell for fake reasons because they were in the way of their favourites.

 

And I haven't even mentioned NASCAR point systems.

[john aston]

The clue is in the title - its the time when,back in the late 90s , your colleagues who had zero knowledge of the sport would ask on Monday  mornings  - 'Did you see the Eff One ? I think....' As if I cared what the idiot thought .

 

That was also the time when real fandom took off , with Eddie Jordan playing his man of the people role , and hordes of hysterical photocopier salesmen and their odious brats would sport yellow Jordan plumage .

 

 It's still Grand Prix racing to me , and it is contested by Formula One cars ..   

[Charlieman]

...and hordes of hysterical photocopier salesmen and their odious brats would sport yellow Jordan plumage .

Fading memory, John?  The photocopier salesmen would have been guests of Williams during the Canon sponsorship days.

 

Let's not get too snotty about "the sort of people" who become F1 fans. If new spectators are enjoying high profile motorsport live or on TV, the next step is to encourage them to attend a clubby or low key national event.

[Doug Nye]

From around 1951 to 2002 I was truly absorbed by motor racing in general, and by Grand Prix racing in particular.

 

On May 12, 2002, that level evaporated - due to Ferrari's cynical manipulation of the Austrian GP result - and that so early in the series.  It was to me totally indefensible. Something certainly died - or had just been killed - inside me...

 

I still follow every race, but not with the level of rapt absorption which had developed since I was a kid of six... Then there had only been one World Champion. I assumed he must be some kind of God. By the time I got involved, front line, there'd been eight World Champions, plus Moss of course, so my world had nine Gods.  By the time my faith was broken, there'd been 28 of them.  Today there have been 33 of the buggers, commonplace.  Not as special... 

 

But keep the faith fellers.  Despite the current crop of F1 cars being such vast great gormless devices - malformed by the combined efforts of lawmakers and soulless advising engineers - they are beneath the skin still magnificently crafted, intricate and exotic celebrations of human ingenuity, talent and craftsmanship. They are still admirably interesting machines, conceived, constructed, deployed and driven by interesting (if sometimes far from admirable or even likeable) people.  

 

But then for me anything's more interesting than politicians, soccer...oh, and golf ...and then of course there's also rap, and country music...and... custard...and...  

 

DCN

[Ian G]

My interest in F1 goes back to the 1960's as a Primary School kid and a member AARC(Warwick Farm,Sydney) as a High School kid in the late 1960's.I started to drift away when the F1 cars stopped coming for the Tasman Series around 1970 and we moved to F5000.A lot of purists did not like the Formula,including Geoff Sykes(ex BARC) who ran the AARC, and that was the start of the demise of the Circuit as he lost his interest/passion for it.

I regained my interest when Alan Jones started to emerge in the late 1970's and again with Webber in the 2000's,having trouble connecting with Riccardo but that may change when he starts winning again.

F-1 management has to be careful,in life you do not stand still for long,you are either going forward or going backwards and in MPO F1 is not going anywhere at the moment. Big Tobacco is close to being out,Multinational Oil only has a token commitment and major Car  manufacturers are moving to Electric vehicles over the coming decades.Throw in climate change and it will be an interesting few years for F1,they should study Can-Am's demise to see how easy it is to kill the 'Golden Goose' with bad executive decisions and lack of foresight.

My 2c as a lifetime Motor Sport enthusiast.

Edited by Ian G, 27 October 2019 - 22:29.

[Boniver]

The Day Formula One Died was 27 mei 2001

Grand Prix Monaco

 

Coulthard PP       1.17'430

Bernoldi   temp    1.21'336   (+ 3'906)

 

and Coulthard stay 42 tours after Bernoldi "Orange car".

 

 

But the end is near

 

with the help of Chase Cary, Ross Brawn, Jean Todt , Michael Masi  and Ferrari

 

 

[ceesvdelst]

I watched F1 until fairly recently, probably still followed it properly until the hybrid cars came in, tried to like them, but they simply look ridiculous and it failed to keep me interested.

 

I have always watched other types of motorsport, and very varied stuff too, off road and I follow bike racing heavily, so F1 really just left me at this time, despite being happy to watch it for 30 odd years before. 

 

I find it fascinating what people still see in it, how they still get wrapped up in it.

 

I hope it is not because I am getting older, but I fear it might be, a lot of motorsport now seems so over sanitised and fake, F1 especially, so many penalty systems, it is so complicated to follow and you simply lose the will, and then you talk about pricing, the woeful tv coverage the utter goon of a commentator on SKY and wonder why it still has a following.

 

I am happy I managed to see the late 80's and much of the 90's. Some awful years in there but I got to see proper cars, real gearboxes, aero becoming a thing more and more and the results of it, good rivalries, friendships, great drivers and also villains. Never forget being at Silverstone one Friday and EVERYONE booing Schumacher on an out lap, was wonderful fun!

[Charlieman]

...so many penalty systems, it is so complicated to follow and you simply lose the will...

On the road in the UK, we have three sets of rules:

* Law

* The highway code, which explains the law but also provides guidelines which are not necessarily laws. They're sensible practice or advisory.

* Informal convention and manners which never made it into the highway code but ease navigation.

 

All three also exist in motorsport. The problem over the years -- and it is a problem rather than just change -- is that drivers have chosen to ignore the less explicit rules and often treat the formal laws with contempt. When F1 introduced a law prohibiting blocking (second moves under braking), it suggested a problem with driver education and comprehension rather than anything wrong with previous convention and practice.

[Sterzo]

...I find it fascinating what people still see in it, how they still get wrapped up in it...

When I was nine I went to a racing circuit and gawped at cars racing past without knowing what was going on, and loved it. Today I was at the Formula Ford Festival and gawped at cars racing past, partly knowing what was going on, and loved it. Later I shall put on the TV recording of the Mexican GP and gawp at cars racing and I shall love it.

 

F1 is just motor racing; but it's also the world championship, featuring the best drivers in the world. The formula has lots of problems and deficiencies but it's still racing, and the last few GPs have been very good too.

[ceesvdelst]

I guess the more variety you watch, perhaps you appreciate other skills over and equal to simply driving fast round a perfectly smooth race track.

 

I would rate someone like Ott Tanak has more of a challenge on his plate, or a WEC driver has more pressure in races at say Le Mans than any F1 driver faces for a decade.

 

But it is all in the eye of the beholder I guess?

[john aston]

Fading memory, John?  The photocopier salesmen would have been guests of Williams during the Canon sponsorship days.

 

Let's not get too snotty about "the sort of people" who become F1 fans. If new spectators are enjoying high profile motorsport live or on TV, the next step is to encourage them to attend a clubby or low key national event.

 I used photocopier salesmen (now conveniently extinct ) as shorthand for the new fan, And if only you were right . But there is no next step,  as the typical F1 fan watches every race on telly,  but has no interest in nor even awareness of club racing or speed events . Believe me,  I've tried converting a few , and with only  one success for a dozen  failures .

 

I'm just back from a CSCC meeting at Donington with 400 entries . And I reckon there'd be 150 cars in the public car park  . The sad reality is that if it ain't on telly - F1, BTCC , Goodwood - in the eyes of Joe Public it can't be much good .

[mistakenplane]

I'm just back from a CSCC meeting at Donington with 400 entries . And I reckon there'd be 150 cars in the public car park  . The sad reality is that if it ain't on telly - F1, BTCC , Goodwood - in the eyes of Joe Public it can't be much good .

 

A little unfair perhaps? People only have so much free time and so much spare cash, and I find no matter what the level of meeting I attend there will be people in F1, BTCC, BSB, WRC merchandise, which shows they watch the top level and trickle down to clubbies.

 

And I've just opened some meetings from the CSCC at Donington and seen the following race results:

 

P1, P2 +1:26.799, P3 +7.105

P1, P2 +20.199, P3 +15.670

P1, P2 +3.972, P3 +42.188

P1, P2 +27.871, P3 +43.565

P1, P2 +58.499, P3 +26.361

 

So it was hardly chock full of great action either!

 

Incidentally the dullest contest I have ever suffered being at a circuit for was a 90 min Radical race with nine entries on the Snetteton 300 circuit. That one was pretty tough on the eyes! Then there was the sad sight of a three-car LMP3 Cup race as well. Shame, because the cars were great, but the spectacle was somewhat lacking!

[john aston]

You illustrate the point perfectly - there were some big gaps , but there was some brilliant dicing in nearly every race .Lots of great action , but you won't extract that from TSL numbers alone .   And being at a race meeting is far more than worrying about the gap between P 1 and P2  , it's about the sound of a V6 Cosworth Exige audible a mile away , the sight of a train of Sevens two and three abreast into the chicane and chatting to some diehard 911 drivers in the pits about their cars' history. You don't get any of that on a 40 inch  screen with crap sound and  an infuriating commentary .. 

 

   Time , money ? I've watched live motorsport when both were in short supply. If you are interested enough , it's what you do . 

[ceesvdelst]

John

 

You illustrate the issue perfectly.  You are clearly someone that likes motorsport, you can watch it anywhere and endure things most people can and will not to do so.

 

It seems the newer F1 fans need something more, either a driver to love or hate, a team to love or hate, a national element. Racing is never enough.

 

hence it is immensely popular.

 

You also get the corporate crowd, I know plenty, they work in business and get invited despite having no interest whatsoever, it's a day out, free lunches etc, but they will never go again, it was about business and networking.

What I can't understand is why people pay hundreds of pounds to go with little interest, that's a lot of money, almost a thing to be seen at.  To experience "atmosphere", all the things advertising tell you are what F1 live is all about.

 

I think there is simply a split in fans, like there is in most sports, rugby, football, tennis, there are those that enjoy the pure sport of it, and far more that simply watch it out of habit, style, leisure activity reasons. A crowd at Bath is very different to a crowd at Twickenham for instance. 

 

That is what Liberty want, and that is what they so far are getting, and more importantly like FIFA, Olympics etc to take it to places it has never been or where it is relatively unknown, and then either tap into that non existent India,Korea,Turkey audience, or the massive Mexico,China,Singapore one.

 

They are not paying after all, so why not try!

[blueprint2002]

Funny how the same thing affects different people differently.

F1 never really died for me, just went into suspended animation, around the time the rules started converging towards one make/spec engine/spec ECU/spec tyres. And when I also realised that weekends were alternating between F1 boredom and MotoGP action. So that there wasn’t any interest left, neither sporting nor technical.

In a way, the hybrid rules have revived the technical aspect, now there is new technology to be explored and hopefully understood, new ground for the builders to exercise innovative thinking, which we all can participate in, vicariously, to the extent that it is revealed. Though the dreary processions remain, despite the efforts of the commentators to talk some excitement into it all.

[moffspeed]

..the day when Formula Ford ceased to be a stepping stone into the upper echelons of the sport, F1 in particular.   These days you are more likely to end up in GT3 or whatever by sitting on your butt and excelling on your Play Station rather than cracking 50 secs. in your FF around Brands Indy.

 

FF Festival ** enjoyed a healthier entry than of-late yesterday and the weather was good. Stood alone at Paddock Hill until a funny little man in a day-glo jacket handed me a set of keys and asked me to lock the place up when I'd had enough...

 

 

** Incidentally I was assuming that none of the current crop of F1 drivers would have raced in Formula Ford - but believe it or not it is 20 years and a couple of days since Kimi Raikkonen competed in the 1999 FF Festival at Brands.

Edited by moffspeed, 28 October 2019 - 11:41.

[mistakenplane]

..the day when Formula Ford ceased to be a stepping stone into the upper echelons of the sport, F1 in particular.   These days you are more likely to end up in GT3 or whatever by sitting on your butt and excelling on your Play Station rather than cracking 50 secs. in your FF around Brands Indy.

 

FF Festival ** enjoyed a healthier entry than of-late yesterday and the weather was good. Stood alone at Paddock Hill until a funny little man in a day-glo jacket handed me a set of keys and asked me to lock the place up when I'd had enough...

 

 

** Incidentally I was assuming that none of the current crop of F1 drivers would have raced in Formula Ford - but believe it or not it is 20 years and a couple of days since Kimi Raikkonen competed in the 1999 FF Festival at Brands.

 

Sadly that is more to do with FF not being what it was isn't it? A lot of the current F1 grid will have raced in Formula Renault or Formula 4 since it became a replacement for FF.

Kevin Magnussen did race FF in Denmark though!

[jj2728]

It won't die for yours truly until or IF Ferrari ever decides to leave. IIRC wasn't it HNM III that said 'A race without Ferrari is like and egg without salt?

Edited by jj2728, 28 October 2019 - 11:54.

[F1matt]

I always differentiate between F1 fans and Motorsport fans in the same way music fans are different to pop music fans. F1 is the promotional/ entertainment arm of motorsport, the gladiators, the best of the best, the pinnacle etc, if people choose to believe in the rubbish that Sky Sports spout then that is up to them, but if they are then inspired to look deeper into Motorsport and start visiting events and delving into the countless other forms of the sport then the sport and the individual are the winners.

 

 

From a personal point of view I have always tormented myself with F1, I loved the mid 80’s when I could tell the cars and drivers apart, I enjoyed watching Senna in his pomp but his actions at Suzuka were unforgivable and put me off the sport for a while, Schumacher looked to be on another level until Adelaide, and interest has peaked and troughed since then, the sport has evolved to a point where the engineers have won and the drivers are just process operators in charge of complex machines which cant race because the tyres aren’t up to it and if they follow another car too closely they overheat, to spice up the show Liberty think the solution is to bring celebrities to the race and wave the chequered flag, often to early and give us endless crowd shots. The cars need to be smaller, lighter, and have less aero for a start with customer engines available to all for a set fee, but as I have said on the main board several times, I could improve the sport instantly, when the drivers have finished their warm up lap have the closest marshal disconnect their radios once this is done start the race.

[JacnGille]

It hasn't died for me but it no longer holds my undivided attention. As far as what no longer thrills, I believe the change from bias ply tires to radials removed one aspect of the spectacle. The Petersons and Villeneuves of the racing world are no longer able to exhibit their special car control.

[mariner]

I don't watch much F1 nowadays despite being a auto technology freak sort of person. The rules are some complex that the cars look ugly and the technology is so hidden. 

 

I do think the constant attempts to achieve overtaking by DRS, multi tyre usage etc have chased it up blind alley.

 

In a sense , and with all due respect to Lotus, grounds effects started the big changes. When cornering speeds threatened to become almost unlimited the rules had to respond and the corner velocities required moving spectators way back and burying the drivers deep in the car. Engineers being engineers once the ground effects phenonomen was understood the rules battles really started.

 

I visit the USA north east each year and in contrast to the utter lack of spectators at UK Clubbies each dirt track gets quite big crowds week after week. In Pensylvannia, New Jersey and New York state there are over 20 tracks running each week .

 

First prize is $5K or more for the main event and the races are run slickly and constant action due to small tracks. So the love of racing below F1 hasn't died in USA at least.