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F1 Engine regulations going forward


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#1 GuyDormehl

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 11:54

I foresee very nervy times ahead for F1 engine specs. The next set of engine regs will last well into the 1930s to ameliorate development costs - that is if the engine regs from now don't just rolled over indefinitely until we know where we are going.....

 

Despite the astonishing efficiency of the current turbo-hybrid engines, they may become irrelevant as I believe that hybrid road cars will change from being considered EVs (huh?!) to being chucked in with ICE cars (petrol and diesel) and therefore banned in many countries starting around 2030. That ain't far away.. already the sales of hybrids are falling in some markets and quickly as diesels! That didn't take long for customers to realise that hybrids are a daft idea and were conjured up by current car manufacturers to hang onto their ICE technology.

 

As a F1 'petrolhead' for many years (decades even...) AND a green tech supporter/EV fan (I have a BMW i3 and charge it from solar as well as running the house off-grid), I am now bewildered where F1 goes in the foreseeable future wrt power unit. Eventually I suppose F1 will morph into FE Max (fuel-cell; battery; other?) but what happens for the next decade or more?

 

I certainly can see the social/political dangers of staying petrol BUT if F1 went carbon-neutral with all the freight; support vehicles/equipment/factories and  spectators arrive in EVs, the F1 could make a case for staying with petrol engines for a spectacle and sport. The minimal percentage of petrol used for racing may be justifiable....hmmmm? There could be a carbon off-set arrangement (trees?)

 

A return to 1970s Cosworth (plus some others)-style simple, cheap and noisy racers....

 

Obviously this may only be a temporary solution as eventually it would be deemed too anti-social/anti-green (mid 2030-2040?) and wither on the vine...…..Then FE WILL take over as the premier World Championship, like it or not.

 

What suggestions do people/F1 fans have out there that are practical and realistic? No anti-green/anti-Greta/anti-EV rhetoric and tirades - that ain't gonna help. The Jeremy Clarkson brigade can pull their heads in!!

 



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#2 Vielleicht

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 15:02

There's a long old thread in Racing Comments about this which I reccomend having a read of

 

https://forums.autos...al-aims-merged/


Edited by Vielleicht, 14 February 2020 - 15:02.


#3 GuyDormehl

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 16:49

Vielleicht, thanks for that info - hadn't seen that thread. Very interesting.

 

Where is it, how do I find it - not using your link!?

 

Thanks Guy



#4 Vielleicht

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 21:34

No worries, admittedly it's a bit of a mess to read as it's two separate threads merged together (the 'Future of F1 ICE' and the 'Carbon Neutral Aims' being the two) but it's got most of the main points there. Feel free to add more I say!
 
The thread is under the Racing Comments section of the Forum, if that at all helps...

 

Absolutely fascinating topic though, in my opinion. I find myself in a similar positon of being a longtime F1 fan and yet also being very interested in an equally enthusiastic about EVs (especially their place in racing). I really don't know what F1 can or should do either - it seems to me that while the future of EV racing is basically a secure bet, the future of racing with ICE (especially with no hybrid) is looking quite shakey indeed.



#5 scolbourne

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 06:28

How about hydrogen powered ic engines. That way you get everything including sound , noise, power and zero CO2.



#6 malbear

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 10:19

How about hydrogen powered ic engines. That way you get everything including sound , noise, power and zero CO2.

Zero co2 really depends on how it is produced https://afdc.energy....production.html

I personally would prefer ethanol as a fuel for an IC engine 



#7 Greg Locock

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 23:06

BMW actually did that once. BMW Hydrogen 7. Crazy stuff.



#8 scolbourne

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 04:01

I think the F1 organisers would guarantee their hydrogen was produced from renewable  sources. I agree using hydrogen produced from fossil fuels would be a bit pointless from an environmental point of view.

We could open up the rules later and allow hydrogen powered  ic engines to compete against fuel cells powering electric motors to provide  a comparison, but this should only happen after the hydrogen ic engines have proven themselves.



#9 scolbourne

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 04:17

With hydrogen running in the dark would be spectacular with red flames coming from the exausts. Maybe the rules can be designed to maxify the look as with nitro dragsters where the flames are part of the appeal.



#10 Greg Locock

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 04:26

Would the electrodes used up in the electrolysis have to be from renewable sources as well?



#11 Charlieman

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 10:22

Would the electrodes used up in the electrolysis have to be from renewable sources as well?

And the cement and steel and plastics....



#12 scolbourne

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 10:45

Would the electrodes used up in the electrolysis have to be from renewable sources as well?

 

Is this a problem. I thought electrodes would have a long life. There are other ways of making hydrogen from water without the use of electricity. You can use solar reflectors to heat water till it breaks down. "Thermochemical water splitting processes use high-temperature heat (500°–2,000°C) to drive a series of chemical reactions that produce hydrogen. The chemicals used in the process are reused within each cycle, creating a closed loop that consumes only water and produces hydrogen and oxygen.".



#13 Greg Locock

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 00:03

Yes, erosion of expensive electrodes is a big deal. thermochemical is a 'long-term' technology, like fusion.



#14 gruntguru

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 00:51

With hydrogen running in the dark would be spectacular with red flames coming from the exausts. Maybe the rules can be designed to maxify the look as with nitro dragsters where the flames are part of the appeal.

I doubt that would happen. The flames from top-fuel dragsters are the result of waste hydrogen burning in the atmosphere - very inefficient.