45 replies to this topic

[BiggestBuddyLazierFan]

I had an argument the other day with a person who was telling that only Mario won F1 title and 500, and that he saw it on television once while watching either indycar or an f1 race. So I went through virtually all races that I could find an acces to and finally found the culprit in the 1987 Indianapolis 500 broadcast This is something that should be adressed. I do not know if they deliberately omitted Jim Clark and Graham Hill or was it utter incompetence. However this is something that disgusted me. Because milions and milions of people at that moment read that and it stuck with them for the rest of their lives.

Edited by BiggestBuddyLazierFan, 15 February 2020 - 13:11.

[BiggestBuddyLazierFan]

link to a full race

[Risil]

Issue a product recall!

 

This reminds me a bit of the Mandela Effect.

[Collombin]

The only Mandela Effect thing that genuinely confuses me is that I am sure that the girl with braces in Moonraker was wearing braces.

[sabrejet]

Hardly the end of the world is it? 

Edited by sabrejet, 15 February 2020 - 15:17.

[wheadon1985]

I think that’s an accident. It was probably supposed to say “only American” or “Italian American” driver to win both.

However, I love the fact you have take the time to sift through old footage to find that out and also brought to light that it actually did guide at least one individual into believing incorrect information for the next 33 years!!

[Tim Murray]

So what about Jacques Villeneuve?

[Collombin]

So what about Jacques Villeneuve?

And Fittipaldi of course, just 2 years after this broadcast - so even if it had been correct info at the time, I don't think too many people should still have been relying on it being true!

[BiggestBuddyLazierFan]

So what about Jacques Villeneuve?

Never won neither 500 nor F1 world championship

[Collombin]

Never won neither 500 nor F1 world championship

Now this Mandela Effect thing really is scaring me.

[BiggestBuddyLazierFan]

Now this Mandela Effect thing really is scaring me.

His nephew did ;-)

But in 1987 he was just a schoolboy

[2F-001]

Whose nephew? I'm completely lost here!

[Richard Jenkins]

Whose nephew? I'm completely lost here!

Nelson Mandela's nephew won the Indianapolis 500 and the F1 World Championship. And what a year that was!

[wolf sun]

Nelson Mandela's nephew won the Indianapolis 500 and the F1 World Championship. And what a year that was!

 

Nelson Piquet, if I remember correctly. Never won neither the one nor the other, didn‘t he? 

[BiggestBuddyLazierFan]

There is a guy who isnt quite sure if Sebring was named after Vettel or Loeb
There are all kind of misinformation out there.

[uffen]

I couldn't fail to disagree with you less.

[2F-001]

Could we, perhaps, blame this "Mandela Effect" for scraping paint from racing cars, drivers winning endurance races whilst still drunk from the night before, and Can Am machines being the fastest racing cars in the world? 

Edited by 2F-001, 15 February 2020 - 20:20.

[Tim Murray]

... and BRMs being brown.

[PayasYouRace]

... and BRMs being brown.

 

That's a new one to me. I assume it's something to do with the very dark green they used not showing up well in photos. TBH I always thought they were blue, thanks to my dad having a Scalextric (well actually a VIP Raceways) BRM in light blue, and the only colour photo I'd seen of one pre-internet was of Hill at Monaco where the sky reflection made it look blue.

[Jim Thurman]

Could we, perhaps, blame this "Mandela Effect" for scraping paint from racing cars, drivers winning endurance races whilst still drunk from the night before, and Can Am machines being the fastest racing cars in the world? 

 

I wish it was that simple. In most cases, these tales simply get passed on down from errors in books or magazines, which sometimes were printed many years after the event (the paint scraping being a good example). By the time one adds in misremembering (abetted by an aging memory), embellishments and a general lack of knowledge to begin with, it grows. The internet seems to have given many a new life, and created others. Just some of the errors I've run across for U.S. motorsports at Wikipedia are mentioned in this post.

Edited by Jim Thurman, 16 February 2020 - 00:31.

[Jim Thurman]

It's not ABC, but a local Los Angeles sports show had a trivia question c. 1988-1990: "Who was the only person to win the Formula One driving championship and the Indianapolis 500?" The answer, of course, was Mario Andretti. I called and mentioned Clark and Graham Hill. To their credit, they made a correction on air.

 

And, then there was the trivia question: "Who was the only American to win the Formula One World Driving Championship?"  And, of course, the answer was Mario Andretti. I called, and... 

 

Just a mistake by ABC. Chris Economaki and Jackie Stewart would have known better, but they weren't on the broadcast team by then. Those who were didn't have any control over whoever posted the graphics, or whoever provided the (mis)information.

 

But, really, egregious errors were routinely made about auto racing on a weekly basis in the U.S., both on air and in print media (like Graham Hill and Ron Flockhart dying in "racing crashes"). That seemed to finally improve in the early 1990s, but it still happens from time to time. 

[brucemoxon]

And the oft-repeated assertion that NASCAR has 'the best drivers in the World'. Some of them are very, very good, of course. But they're not all the best. Maybe the best sealed-surface speedway sedan drivers in the World. If the 'World' is confined to the USA.

 

 

BRM

[Tim Murray]

That's a new one to me. I assume it's something to do with the very dark green they used not showing up well in photos.

Spot on. This harks back to a very entertaining TNF thread from many years ago. A particular poster had a book which included a photo of a BRM which appeared brown to him. He concluded therefore that all (pre-sponsorship) BRMs were brown, not dark green, and vigorously argued that case here against Doug Nye, Tony Matthews and all the rest of us telling him he was wrong.

He then decided to photograph the photo in his book, to prove to the rest of us that BRMs were definitely brown. It was only then that he had his Damascene conversion:

Well guys, surprise surpirse, BRMs were GREEN!

Story goes like this, I was just about present you the ultimate evidence that BRMs were actualy brown, so I took that old book of mine and decided to photograph the image of the BRM that I always thought was brown.

And than a miracle happened, as flash ignited brown BRM turned into green BRM.

[jimclark]

'Was playing Trivial Pursuit one evening and one of the questions was "What signals the start of the Indy 500?" 

The answer, according to the card, was "Gentlemen, start your engines".

The flag wasn't even an option. I wrote the company with the correction but never even got the courtesy of a reply.....   

'Never bought a newer version.

[PayasYouRace]

Spot on. This harks back to a very entertaining TNF thread from many years ago. A particular poster had a book which included a photo of a BRM which appeared brown to him. He concluded therefore that all (pre-sponsorship) BRMs were brown, not dark green, and vigorously argued that case here against Doug Nye, Tony Matthews and all of the rest of us telling him he was wrong.

He then decided to photograph the photo in his book, to prove to the rest of us that BRMs were definitely brown. It was only then that he had his Damascene conversion:
 

 

Cool.

 

Though in my head now, a dark brown BRM with the dayglo orange lip round the radiator intake would be rather attractive.

[Jim Thurman]

And the oft-repeated assertion that NASCAR has 'the best drivers in the World'. Some of them are very, very good, of course. But they're not all the best. Maybe the best sealed-surface speedway sedan drivers in the World. If the 'World' is confined to the USA.

 

It's oft-repeated by whichever announcers are currently employed by whichever television network happens to have the NASCAR contract    That's down to toeing the company line more than regional chauvinism.

[Sterzo]

Spot on. This harks back to a very entertaining TNF thread from many years ago. A particular poster had a book which included a photo of a BRM which appeared brown to him. He concluded therefore that all (pre-sponsorship) BRMs were brown, not dark green, and vigorously argued that case here against Doug Nye, Tony Matthews and all of the rest of us telling him he was wrong.

He then decided to photograph the photo in his book, to prove to the rest of us that BRMs were definitely brown. It was only then that he had his Damascene conversion:
 

Fancy thinking BRMs were brown. They were dark blue - according to the colour printing on the cover of Motor Racing and elsewhere, to the extent that people made slot car models in that hue.

[dbltop]

I thought BRM were blue because the dinky toy was blue. Here in Canada anyway.

[2F-001]

As a child I was a little confused by my Corgi Toys BRM P25 in pale green; it was only later I learned there was an historical precedent for this.

However, I am, to this day, puzzled by the red Vanwall (with a blue and white stripe) which accompanied it in my 'Silverstone' set.

Edited by 2F-001, 16 February 2020 - 20:18.

[BiggestBuddyLazierFan]

Jackie Stewart just said that Mario Andretti won Le Mans 24hour race Minute 30:00 onwards

[Tim Murray]

However, I am, to this day, puzzled by the red Vanwall (with a blue and white stripe) which accompanied it in my 'Silverstone' set.

This one, Tony?



Very bizarre.

[PayasYouRace]

At least a blue BRM actually existed:

 

[Michael Ferner]

I had an argument the other day with a person who was telling that only Mario won F1 title and 500, and that he saw it on television once while watching either indycar or an f1 race. So I went through virtually all races that I could find an acces to and finally found the culprit in the 1987 Indianapolis 500 broadcast This is something that should be adressed. I do not know if they deliberately omitted Jim Clark and Graham Hill or was it utter incompetence. However this is something that disgusted me. Because milions and milions of people at that moment read that and it stuck with them for the rest of their lives.

Actually, he won neither. The Formula One World Championship wasn't introduced until 1981, and the race he won in the Hoosier caital was called the International Sweepstakes until right about the same time.


This SmartAss ® comment was brought to you by The Nostalgia Forum ®, home of The Pedants League ® and Smart Alec ®.

[Glengavel]

Actually, he won neither. The Formula One World Championship wasn't introduced until 1981, and the race he won in the Hoosier caital was called the International Sweepstakes until right about the same time.


This SmartAss ® comment was brought to you by The Nostalgia Forum ®, home of The Pedants League ® and Smart Alec ®.

 

Pedants' League, not Pedants League...

[PayasYouRace]

Pedants' League, not Pedants League...

Depends if it’s a league of Pedants or a league for Pedants.

[Michael Ferner]

Right. And Pedants' should actually read Pedants's...

[Glengavel]

Right. And Pedants' should actually read Pedants's...

 

Oh no it shouldn't, unles your name is Gollum. 

[BRG]

This one, Tony?

Very bizarre.

I particularly like the Spring suspension racing driver that was included.  What heinous outrage had he committed to get suspended for the whole Spring?  Was he Dan Ticktum's granddad?

[ensign14]

Cool.

 

Though in my head now, a dark brown BRM with the dayglo orange lip round the radiator intake would be rather attractive.

 

Alas Hexagon was a bit too late to the party, they ran a Brabham instead.
 

[PayasYouRace]

Alas Hexagon was a bit too late to the party, they ran a Brabham instead.
 

 

This one?

 

 

I had a P57 in my mind but that's close enough.

[john aston]

And the oft-repeated assertion that NASCAR has 'the best drivers in the World'. Some of them are very, very good, of course. But they're not all the best. Maybe the best sealed-surface speedway sedan drivers in the World. If the 'World' is confined to the USA.

 

 

BRM

I am not sure why we need  to be  so binary - let's just agree that the winning divers in any series tend  to be the 'best' ones.And waters do  get muddied when a driver wins in many categories - so Mario Andretti ends up being a good ol' boy one week, a hick from the sticks the next and the creme de la creme the next . . And in RC style one might ask who  that serial makeweight  Dan Gurney was ... only four GPs to his name , what sort of a loser must he have been ? 

 

As for 'horrible error' ..  it wasn't the Anschluss , just a slip of the tongue about our favourite sport  

[john winfield]

 

 

As for 'horrible error' ..  it wasn't the Anschluss , just a slip of the tongue about our favourite sport  

 

You're right. Easily done.

 

3 metre springboard or 10 metre platform?  

[Catalina Park]

At least a blue BRM actually existed:

 

It was quite clearly red.

[Tim Murray]

No, it’s brown, I swear!

[Sterzo]

Dark lust, of course.

[kyle936]

It would have been a horrible error then and still would be now except maybe not so much because of the internet - nowadays within minutes if not seconds it would have been corrected either by *tweets* or *comments*.

 

We forget that, even though most of us were around when knowledge was an adventure. But then nowadays, the truth is the truth except when it isn't.

 

Oh, for nostalgia...