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Offspring Racers [Merged]


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#51 PlatenGlass

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 18:13

Its nothing to do with nepotism but more to do with money and long term career planning. These kids had been groomed from a very young age to follow their dads footsteps. No different from the child of a doctor or actor following their parents footsteps. However, that is not always a guarantee they will make it.  I assure you many of these ex drivers have other children who were not good enough to make it in racing. The ones you see racing were the ones good enough. No team is going to pick a useless driver unless they pretty much own or buy the seat.

Having the money/connections also makes a massive difference to how good you can become though. It's not simply that hardly anyone gets a chance to race in go-karts, but people born into privilege and with parents willing to support them do. There is still a whole continuum within that. I don't imagine Max Verstappen simply did go-karting from a young age and turned out to be really good. He probably also did about 10 times the mileage of other go-karters, and got free training tips from his ex-F1 driver father. I remember Ayrton Senna said that he did a go-kart race once in the wet and he was awful. But then next time it rained, he went out onto the track and just practised for ages until he got a the hang of it. Well, most go-karters who only do race meetings at weekends and nothing in between aren't likely to get this opportunity. F1 has a much higher proportion of sons and relatives of other drivers getting into it than other sports, and it's not surprising.

Because of this, I don't normally talk about drivers being more talented than others, but better or more skilled, because talent implies it's a natural thing, and really there's no way of measuring that. Max Verstappen, for example, is better than almost every other driver on the grid, but is he more talented? Not necessarily.

Edit - Interestingly there are two drivers who became world champion in relatively recent years without the traditional karting background. Both also the sons of prominent F1 drivers (a champion a a multiple winner). It's unlikely to be a coincidence. Even in cases where your F1 dad hasn't planned out your racing career, having the name can still help.

Edited by PlatenGlass, 24 November 2019 - 23:05.


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#52 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 05 March 2020 - 05:43

Of course we know Mick Scumacher is in F2 this year, but for possibles in the future we have Eduardo Barrichello in a LeClerc Kart and Sebastian Montoya in F4 this year. The list of former drivers whose sons made it to the big league is pretty long, and sometimes illustrious.

Any others to add for this coming season to watch?

 



#53 A3

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Posted 05 March 2020 - 06:31

Yeah, Max Verstappen.

#54 Cliff

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Posted 05 March 2020 - 07:21

Yeah, Max Verstappen.


He’s alright.

#55 Gambelli

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Posted 05 March 2020 - 09:26

Jack Doohan in F3 - Father famous for 2 wheels of course but one of the best of all time, especially in the 500cc era



#56 Sterzo

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Posted 05 March 2020 - 14:00

Jack Doohan in F3 - Father famous for 2 wheels of course but one of the best of all time, especially in the 500cc era

He looks like the real deal.

 

(Opinion brought to you by a man who tipped Tony Trimmer for world champion).



#57 Anja

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Posted 05 March 2020 - 14:15

Didn't we already have this sort of thread somewhere?



#58 thegforcemaybewithyou

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Posted 05 March 2020 - 14:37

Could be that it's been covered in a F3 or F2 thread last year.

#59 AustinF1

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Posted 05 March 2020 - 15:17

There are these guys ...

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=X5-zw_dTEJQ


Edited by AustinF1, 05 March 2020 - 15:21.


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#60 Frood

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Posted 05 March 2020 - 15:45

Didn't we already have this sort of thread somewhere?

This one.



#61 PayasYouRace

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Posted 05 March 2020 - 16:47

 

Well done. Thread's merged.



#62 thegforcemaybewithyou

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Posted 06 March 2020 - 06:34

I'm still waiting for Juju Noda to be old enough to compete in a national F4 series.

http://www.formulasc...danish-f4/56452

It looks like we don't have to wait much longer as she'll be in the Danish F4 championship this year. The first race is set for May http://www.formel4.dk/kalender/ .



#63 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 07 March 2020 - 15:54

Karts? Nah, taking the Rick Mears, Jimmy Johnson route to the bigs...

 

Max Gordon



#64 cpbell

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Posted 07 March 2020 - 16:07

Not a fan of nepotism, so seeing all these names pop us as potential F1 stars doesn't fill me with pleasure at all.

If they're sufficiently talented, why not?  Your argument would have denied us the 1996 Williams drivers, for example.
 



#65 Sterzo

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Posted 08 March 2020 - 13:38

If they're sufficiently talented, why not?  Your argument would have denied us the 1996 Williams drivers, for example.
 

Quite so. It's astonishing that people ignore the possibility of inheriting characteristics from one's parents.



#66 absinthedude

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Posted 08 March 2020 - 17:45

THe offspring and even nieces & nephews of top racers may well have the advantage of family name and money, but they also need talent to get to the top. Maybe they get a helping hand, though Damon Hill most certainly did not and I am unsure if Jacques Villeneuve did. Nobody reaches the top without some good fortune. As long as they have sufficient talent, why not the relatives of a top racer? And yes, sometimes some of that talent is passed on in the genes. 



#67 lustigson

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 08:09

There's also this ancient thread about fathers and sons and daughters and brothers and nieces and whatever more in racing.



#68 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 10 March 2020 - 00:36

If they're sufficiently talented, why not?  Your argument would have denied us the 1996 Williams drivers, for example.
 

Flip the coin and there are some offspring that never make it.

Not bagging on anyone in particular, but I'm sure there could be a thread of those that did not make it, and some who did but never achieved much.

Various drivers come immediately to mind, but, uh well, never mind...

:smoking:



#69 PlatenGlass

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Posted 10 March 2020 - 08:45

THe offspring and even nieces & nephews of top racers may well have the advantage of family name and money, but they also need talent to get to the top. Maybe they get a helping hand, though Damon Hill most certainly did not and I am unsure if Jacques Villeneuve did. Nobody reaches the top without some good fortune. As long as they have sufficient talent, why not the relatives of a top racer? And yes, sometimes some of that talent is passed on in the genes.

I think the disproportionate number of sons of F1 drivers making it compared to most other sports suggests the name helps massively. It did help in Damon Hill's case, certainly when family friend George Harrison paid for his racing.

Given the money and opportunities required, motor racing is one of the least meritocratic sports, and this is just one window on that.

#70 Frood

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Posted 21 September 2020 - 16:07

A son of a 90s/00s F1 driver? Called Max? Driving car #33? I've never heard that before.



#71 H0R

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Posted 21 September 2020 - 16:46

When that chart was loading I was actually expecting to find Maxiniko Inoue



#72 Myrvold

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Posted 21 September 2020 - 19:14

 

You mean the son of a Tyrrell 1997 driver and class winner at Le Mans 2008? It sounds familiar, but I'm not sure.


Edited by Myrvold, 21 September 2020 - 19:14.


#73 Augurk

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Posted 21 September 2020 - 20:12

You mean the son of a Tyrrell 1997 driver and class winner at Le Mans 2008? It sounds familiar, but I'm not sure.

That drove roundabout 110 grands prix, 8 seasons, for 7 constructors and had 2 podium finishes in F1? 

 

Surely rings a bell.


Edited by Augurk, 21 September 2020 - 20:13.


#74 Myrvold

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Posted 21 September 2020 - 21:07

That drove roundabout 110 grands prix, 8 seasons, for 7 constructors and had 2 podium finishes in F1? 

 

Surely rings a bell.

 

Franciscius Juhani or something, was it not?



#75 William Hunt

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Posted 21 September 2020 - 21:47

Brando Badoer has seriously impressed me in karting, he really is extremely talented.
Enzo Trulli has shown to be very quick as well and he won the Andrea Margutti Trofeo last year.

I'm not convinced of Emmo Fittipaldi Jr. (who is already in the Sauber junior program).
Lorenzo Patrese seems similar to Emmo Jr., decent driver but certainly not of the level of Brando Badoer who is exceptional. Patrese did show flashes of speed but the results haven't come out of it yet, he has been unlucky with some retirement in qualifying races, he may still improve (same for Emmo Jr.).

I have not been that impressed by the Wurz brothers (Charlie & Oscar) either although they both did show a good pace in the Academy trophy (where everyone is driving with the same material, no teams there).

 

To give an idea of who is on the palmares of the Andrea Margutti Trophy: Andrea Belicchi, Giancarlo Fisichella (he won it 3 times!), Sophie Kumpen (mother of Max V.), André Lotterer, Antonio Garcia, Robert Kubica, Tony Villander, Oliver Oakes (manager of Hitech), Ben Hanley, Stefano Coletti, Edoardo Mortara, Charles Pic, Marco Wittmann, Jack Harvey, Daniil Kvyat, Alessio Lorandi, Logan Sargeant, Dorian Boccolaci, Dan Ticktum, Max Fewtrell, Kush Maini, Alexander Smolyar, Andrea Rosso
Enzo Trulli is in pretty good company there!

 

So of the current generation offspring karters I'm convinced that Brando Badoer could go very far, possibly all the way, and Enzo Trulli is a driver to watch who has shown to be very quick but he's still lacking some top results to back that up.

Badoer is the real deal imho, he's currently second overall in the WSK Euro Series. Surely Ferrari will sooner or later sign Brando up in their junior program. Badoer is currently the most promissing Italian karter apart from Andrea Kimi Antonelli but he is a Mercedes junior. Antonelli is an amazing talent that could also go all the way to F1, in particular if Mercedes keeps supporting him.


Edited by William Hunt, 22 September 2020 - 14:29.


#76 Beri

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Posted 22 September 2020 - 06:26

Brando Badoer. It has a ring like Elon Musk to it. A badass James Bond villain name.



#77 Augurk

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Posted 22 September 2020 - 07:36

Franciscius Juhani or something, was it not?

I really wanted to continue the joke but you lost me there  :rotfl:



#78 PayasYouRace

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Posted 22 September 2020 - 10:06

Brando Badoer. It has a ring like Elon Musk to it. A badass James Bond villain name.

 

The ring of a minor Star Wars character?



#79 BiggestBuddyLazierFan

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Posted 22 September 2020 - 10:15

It amazes me that Kevin and Jan Magnussen are only 18-19 years aparat. Some sources suggest Jan is 1973 and some 1974. While Kevin is 1992

Was Kevin raised by his teenage father or did his grandparents raise him?

Because I remember quite well that Jan was still a kid himself in mid 90s. I cannot imagine him raising a kid during that time

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#80 Beri

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Posted 22 September 2020 - 10:21

The ring of a minor Star Wars character?

 

Im no Star Wars fan, but yeah.. Beats the likes of Anakin Skywalker to be honest.



#81 Frood

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Posted 22 September 2020 - 10:37

It amazes me that Kevin and Jan Magnussen are only 18-19 years aparat. Some sources suggest Jan is 1973 and some 1974. While Kevin is 1992

Was Kevin raised by his teenage father or did his grandparents raise him?

Because I remember quite well that Jan was still a kid himself in mid 90s. I cannot imagine him raising a kid during that time


There's this article from Motorsport Magazine (from 2005) which suggests his girlfriend and Kevin were at least at some races:

https://www.motorspo...-much-too-young

#82 Bleu

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Posted 22 September 2020 - 14:19

I don't remember exactly how Kevin explained it in the BTG podcast but that gave the impression that parents were split quite early in his life.