82 replies to this topic

[pallas1970]

[pallas1970]

[pallas1970]

[Lee Nicolle]

Maybe the Labor party could not spell!!

Or a Burt Monroe of saving ink!!

[Lee Nicolle]

A few names from that event still more or less current. Bob Holden and Thommo. And many were around for a very long time.

[cooper997]

Great pic Stephen. I don't know what Bryan Thomson looks like but I thought that looked like Doug Whiteford behind JB. And I would say Ron Flockhart behind Bib.  

 

 

Rod, I took a chance that Bryan was still using contact details from a few years ago. Today he's sent me a ripper response and I'm just awaiting his permission to share it here.

 

I can at least confirm that he is indeed the driver behind Jack. Doug Whiteford would have been the oldest driver if he was in this photo, late 40s. As you've noted I wasn't 100% happy on who was standing behind Bib. So I've asked Thommo to channel his 27yo self to recall who was beside him. So no pressure at all after a mere 58 years. He's also seen this thread.

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

James, no doubt from your Mal Simpson archive. I suspect that most (if not all) of the photos you've added relate back to the 1962 Warwick Farm International. This one certainly is and it's the Cooper he raced, not the Lotus he practiced. Thanks for sharing and keep them coming if there's more.

Stephen

[Repco22]

Rod, I took a chance that Bryan was still using contact details from a few years ago. Today he's sent me a ripper response and I'm just awaiting his permission to share it here.

 

I can at least confirm that he is indeed the driver behind Jack. Doug Whiteford would have been the oldest driver if he was in this photo, late 40s. As you've noted I wasn't 100% happy on who was standing behind Bib. So I've asked Thommo to channel his 27yo self to recall who was beside him. So no pressure at all after a mere 58 years. He's also seen this thread.

 

Stephen

Thommo's 'channeling' will be interesting.   Thanks Stephen. What a varied field it was. I note Laurie Whitehead placed eighth in heat two in the little Ausper. My good friend Don Hall later bought this car and ran it successfully in WA.  I'm sorry to say that Don is not in the best of health.

Edited by Repco22, 07 May 2020 - 09:37.

[pallas1970]

Original data sheets from Stirling Moss’s mechanic (Mal Simpson) from the 1962 Tasman series. Not much detail for the Sandown event.

[pallas1970]

[pallas1970]

[pallas1970]

[pallas1970]

[pallas1970]

[cooper997]

Thommo's 'channeling' will be interesting.   Thanks Stephen. What a varied field it was. I note Laurie Whitehead placed eighth in heat two in the little Ausper. My good friend Don Hall later bought this car and ran it successfully in WA.  I'm sorry to say that Don is not in the best of health.

 

Rod, indeed there was an interesting field in the Heats of this meeting. You can take some credit for what follows as had you not quizzed the drivers list relating to John Ellacott's photo then I probably wouldn't have asked Thommo. As yet the channeling hasn't related to the drivers to his right. However BT has given permission for this to be shared.

 

"Hello Stephen .   Certainly appears to be myself.  My haircut of the period, prominent nose, and the dark blue "Banlon" top, can't see the light blue pants, but this was my race attire at the time.  This was a "watershed" event in my career, to be in the same event as such luminaries was soul stirring.  It was my second event in the ex Victa/Stillwell Type 51 Cooper (1st was 25/2/62 Calder, 3rd in Vic Trophy to Stillwell / Davo') Sandown was not an auspicious event in my "open wheeler" period, as the ex Aussie Miller Climax had a baffling problem all weekend with oil pressure.  Strangely, the higher the revs, the lower the pressure!!  Not the usual situation at all.  We suspected cavitation in the oil system, and spent most of the lead up to the race with the Cooper in pieces instead of out learning about my new mount.

  

Your recollection of my issue at Dunlop bridge is spot on.  As I was lapped in the race by Stillwell /  Salvadori / Davo, they flew past me entering the causeway, and  I  thought "try harder Thommo".  Sadly the Type 51 wasn't a Type 53 and I understeered badly and clipped the wall.  I limped the Cooper under the Dunlop Bridge to a safe spot (I thought ) only to have John Youl repeat my effort.  Only he missed the wall and launched OVER the bridge to land 10 yards behind me!!  John was thrown out of the car, and landed, looking up, straddling the wire fence. We all feared that his back would be broken at least.  Thankfully, not so.  Only compensation is that I was joined in retirement by Aussie Miller/ Ron Flockhart / Roy Salvadori and Bib Stillwell.

P S, the oil pressure problem was a cracked main bearing web .  A common
fault I was to learn. It was repaired by "Aviation Welding" in Moorabbin

 .
Later Climax FPF's had crossbolted main bearing caps for a fix, but we
designed and fitted a main bearing cradle, prior to the supercharger
effort
 .
You did ask!!!    Cheers ,  Thommo"

 

 

Clearing seeing John's Sandown photo kept Bryan thinking, a few hours later came this response...

 

"Still musing over the photo and dialogue.  Definitely B T as suggested, as I now note the light blue trousers and the dark blue Banlon (flammable) top.  The light driving shoes are also correct. What is rather daunting tho' is the comment that of all the drivers pictured, I am last man standing !!
I feel privileged to have been a small part of this golden era of motorsport.    Thommo "

 

 

Then when I asked Bryan if I could add his response to TNF I threw in a question on whether he had any memories of S Moss at that 1962 Sandown meeting. This came back...

"Sorry , but don't have any interface with Stirling at all . He was such a
celebrity and on another planet.  My particular hero was Jimmy Clark, whom
I  met and raced against in the U K  in 1967.  He and Graham Hill were in
works Lotus Cortina's and we had many a wheel to wheel dice in the British
Touring Car Championship rounds."

 

 

So all in all, worth asking I think.

 

Stephen

 

PS thanks to Tim/Richard for expanding the scope of this thread.

[cooper997]

 

James, thank you for sharing these data sheets from Mal's archive. What a collection to have.

 

The Sandown Heat sheet is indeed a bit light on, but hey that's a piece of history.

 

Not sure if there's a sheet missing, but in post 60 and 61 the Levin sheet is repeated.

 

If you've got time, probably worth putting these and the photos on your Mal Simpson thread too.

 

Stephen

[wenoopy]

Great pic Stephen. I don't know what Bryan Thomson looks like but I thought that looked like Doug Whiteford behind JB. And I would say Ron Flockhart behind Bib.  

 

If Pat Hoare is there, he must be the tall-broad shouldered person behind Jack Brabham. He certainly didn't have wavy hair, and in any photos I have seen he is the tallest one - at least "half-a-head" taller than Moss and Surtees.

 

 Stu Buchanan

[cooper997]

Stu, Bryan Thomson has personally confirmed he's behind Jack Brabham. So it's looking like Ron Flockhart behind Bib Stillwell and Pat Hoare isn't in the John Ellacott Sandown drivers photo.

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

Wasn't sure where to add what follows, the Stirling... thread or here. In the end I've chosen here because of the Australian content.

 

David McKay put together a great series of 11 articles in early issues of 1990's Motor Racing Australia. Stirling's was the final one.

 

 

 

 

 

Stephen

 

 

[Lee Nicolle]

Wasn't sure where to add what follows, the Stirling... thread or here. In the end I've chosen here because of the Australian content.

 

David McKay put together a great series of 11 articles in early issues of 1990's Motor Racing Australia. Stirling's was the final one.

 

 

 

 

 

Stephen

I have forgotten who was driving the Torana when it jammed in gear at Bathurst? Jack or Stirling.

I feel Stirling drove it after the repairs until the engine let go.

[Catalina Park]

I have forgotten who was driving the Torana when it jammed in gear at Bathurst? Jack or Stirling.

I feel Stirling drove it after the repairs until the engine let go.

It was Jack.
They were a shocking gear change.
I used to lock my Torana in two gears to stop it getting stolen.
 

[Lee Nicolle]

It was Jack.
They were a shocking gear change.
I used to lock my Torana in two gears to stop it getting stolen.
 

When they are worn they are awfull but generally when in good order trouble free.

My HK Monaros with Saginaws were very easy to jam in 2 gears. My mate with XW GS Top Loader used to jam the shifter as you mentioned.

Best of all of those with the Hurst competition Plus that was on Corvettes on Muncies. Positive and lovely to use. 

When I first used a Super T10 it had a Mr Gasket shifter, It worked ok but my arm ached for several days after. I used a Hurst from a Muncie and no more problems. A friend has a 70 Mach 1 with a Hurst and that changes really nice too. 

 

Jack probably had less excuses too,he was a Ford dealer at that time so must have had some experience with local cars and gearboxes.

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 12 May 2020 - 08:01.

[pallas1970]

 

[cooper997]

Thanks for adding James.

 

4 February 1962 Warwick Farm International programme entry list

Event 5 International ‘100’ Race – 45 laps.2.30pm

1 Ecurie Vitesse (Dvr J Brabham) NSW Cooper Climax 2700 Green

2 Bowmaker Yeoman Racing Team (Dvr J Surtees) GB Cooper Climax 2700 Green/Red

3 Bowmaker Yeoman Racing Team (Dvr R Salvadori) GB Cooper Climax 2600 Green/Red

4 Bowmaker Yeoman Racing Team (Dvr A N Davison) Vic Cooper Climax 2600 Green

5 Scuderia Veloce (Dvr J Youl) Tas Cooper Climax 2200 Blue

6 B S Stillwell Vic Cooper Climax 2495 Green

7 R R C Walker Racing Team (Dvr S Moss) GB Lotus/Cooper Climax 2500 Blue – used Cooper

8 R Flockhart GB Lotus Climax 2500 Yellow/Black

9 Capitol Motors (Dvr A Glass) NSW BRM 2496 Red

10 B McLaren NZ Cooper Climax 2700 Green

11 Geoghegan Motors Liverpool (Dvr L /I Geoghegan) NSW Lotus 20 FJ 1099 Black

12 Scuderia Veloce (Dvr G Youl) Tas MRD Ford 1099 Blue

14 Scuderia Veloce (Dvr D McKay) NSW Cooper Climax 2460 Red

15 A Miller Tas Cooper Corvette 4500 Yellow

16 A Hyslop NZ Cooper Climax 2500 White/Blue

17 Scuderia Centro-Sud (Dvr L Bandini) Italy Cooper Maserati 2800 Red

18 A N Davison (Reserve entry) Vic Aston Martin DBR4 2996 Green

 

Grid details (for the above Mal Simpson Collection post 73 photo)
Front row - 7 Moss Cooper, 1 Brabham Cooper, 10 McLaren Cooper
Second row - 2 Surtees Cooper, probably Salvadori's empty space, having crashed badly in practice.
Third row - 6 Stillwell Cooper, 14 Bandini Cooper-Maserati, 5 John Youl Cooper.
Forth row - 4 Davison Cooper, 8 Flockhart Lotus
Fifth row - 16 Hyslop Cooper
Rear of grid - 9 Glass BRM.

 

 

 

Stephen

[Ray Bell]

Let's put some times in there:

 

Front row - 7 Moss Cooper, 1:37.5; 1 Brabham Cooper, 1:38.1; 10 McLaren Cooper
Second row - 2 Surtees Cooper, probably Salvadori's empty space, having crashed badly in practice.
Third row - 6 Stillwell Cooper, 14 Bandini Cooper-Maserati, 5 John Youl Cooper.
Forth row - 4 Davison Cooper, 8 Flockhart Lotus
Fifth row - 16 Hyslop Cooper
Rear of grid - 9 Glass BRM.

 

Does anyone have any more? RCN or Austosportsman should have them.

 

In the race McLaren took the lap record at 1:37.5 and on the Friday Moss had done a 1:36.4 (IIRC) in the Lotus.

[cooper997]

I think I gathered these times mostly from the Modern Motor report (collated since the grid was posted in the original 2015 Mal Simpson thread and simply cut and pasted in post 74 here). That MM report is still shown in post 76 of that original thread https://forums.autos...me-sheet/page-2

 

Front row - 7 Moss Cooper 1:37.5, 1 Brabham Cooper 1:38.1, 10 McLaren Cooper 1:39.1
Second row - 2 Surtees Cooper 1:40.6, probably Salvadori's empty space, having crashed badly in practice.- 1:41.1 – see RCN
Third row - 6 Stillwell Cooper 1:41.1, 14 Bandini Cooper-Maserati 1:42.0, 5 John Youl Cooper 1:42.4.
Fourth row - 4 Davison Cooper 1:42.5, 8 Flockhart Lotus 1.42.7
Fifth row - 16 Hyslop Cooper 1:43.4
Rear of grid - 9 Glass BRM. time? DNP?

DNS Gavin Youl MRD 1:46.1

 

 

Stephen

Edited by cooper997, 05 September 2020 - 23:18.

[Ray Bell]

Any mention of Moss' time in the Lotus?

 

He had his choice of cars, I recall reading somewhere that there was a time advantage in the Lotus but he chose to race the Cooper instead.

[cooper997]

This from March 62 RCN.

 

"POLE POSITION TO MOSS After a familiarisation session of Friday and two practice sessions on Saturday, Moss achieved pole position with a time of 1:37.5 in the Cooper Climax, his time in the Lotus being 1:38.5..."

 

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

John Ellacott kindly allowed me to use his great photo at the Western Crossing of Stirling in the Lotus and a distracted John Youl in his Cooper during practice, for a Mini Cooper Register piece. I'm sure he won't mind it being added here too.

 

 

 

Stephen

[rudi]

Stirling won the Lady Wigram Trophy in the Walker Lotus. Is it possible to find an account of the race? Thanks.

[Rupertlt1]

LADY WIGRAM TROPHY — January 26th, 1962

Wigram Airfield, Christchurch

"After the two wet meetings the third was blessed with

sunshine that turned into a heat wave, and Moss showed that

intense heat has little effect on him as intense rain. He led a

whole string of Coopers home driving the new Walker Lotus.

Motor Sport, March 1962, Page 152

 

2nd Brabham, 3rd Surtees, 4th McLaren

 

RGDS RLT

[cooper997]

Peter Greenslade's 3 page report is in 2/2/62 Autosport p155

 

 

Stephen

[rudi]

Thanks, I will look for this Autosport.