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Young talent, F2/F3 etc. likely to be promoted to F1 2021 or 2022


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#1 motohead

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 09:22

With the current line-ups and with the current context of F1 and its teams, which young drivers could be promoted to F1 for 21 and 22? (Not who is the most talented, has the most impressive history)

 

Schwartzman - If he continues his current form I think he has a very strong chance of an Alfa seat. However, there is the Schumacher factor. Will he be picked ahead of Schwartzman? What about Grosjeans seat at Haas, could that be a possibility?

 

Schumacher - If he impresses this season it seems to be a given that there is an Alfa seat up for grabs, with Kimi, with Gio or maybe with Schwartzman?

 

Lundgaard/Zhau - With Alonso coming in, the road to F1 seems much further away. However, will Ocon stay on, if he doesn't perform? Maybe for 21, but for 22 as well? If so who will be better placed to take Ocons Renault seat? Also Abiteboul has actually stated that an academy driver might still join for 2021). Will Lundgaard/Zhau end up high enough on the F2 grid to gain enough super license points?

 

Tsunoda - A strong performance could earn him a call up to Alpha Tauri. Kvyat's seat?

 

A few big talents coming in F3 this year, Sergeant, Vesti, Piastri. Where do they fit into all of this?

 

 

 



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#2 Muppetmad

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 09:43

Vips too. There's a lot of great talent worthy of a seat next year.



#3 JRodrigues

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 09:46

ART, Uni, Dams and Prema drivers.


Edited by JRodrigues, 25 July 2020 - 09:47.


#4 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 09:49

There’s only so many seats in F1, I doubt we’ll see more than 2 or 3 guys being promoted. Biggest contenders are Shwartzman (at Haas), Schumacher (at Alfa Romeo) and perhaps Vips to replace Kvyat at AlphaTauri. I don’t believe Renault will drop Ocon, even if he doesn’t improve on his season so far. He’s French and Mercedes is probably paying Renault well to give him the seat.

#5 motohead

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 09:50

Vips too. There's a lot of great talent worthy of a seat next year.

Also an Alpha Tauri seat I guess? Of course depending on how the season goes. But more likely than Tsunoda to be promoted? 



#6 sportyskells

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 10:02

I say a Russia driver and a mick Schumacher

#7 messy

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 10:04

Vips is a funny one because what’s he actually doing this year? He blatantly should be in F2, probably in the Red Bull Carlin seat instead of Daruvala in truth. But Super Formula is such an odd one for drivers at that stage in their careers and for every Gasly or Vandoorne there’s a Markelov or Ticktum. I mean, who even remembers that any of those even did SF? Even the ones that succeeded?

I like Zhou but suspect he’ll maybe be passed over because there’s this new load of talent coming up on him. Shwartzman will be in an Alfa Romeo or a Haas next season I’m sure, while Schumacher probably will too. I reckon Red Bull will probably fast-track one of Tsunoda or Vips into an AlphaTauri seat next season in place of Kvyat who simply can’t keep in that drive forever delivering 6/10s across the board.

Lundgaard, Armstrong and co will probably stay in F2 for a second season I’d think but depending on their results might be a big factor this time next year.

Edited by messy, 25 July 2020 - 10:05.


#8 motohead

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 10:09

Vips is a funny one because what’s he actually doing this year? He blatantly should be in F2, probably in the Red Bull Carlin seat instead of Daruvala in truth. But Super Formula is such an odd one for drivers at that stage in their careers and for every Gasly or Vandoorne there’s a Markelov or Ticktum. I mean, who even remembers that any of those even did SF? Even the ones that succeeded?

I like Zhou but suspect he’ll maybe be passed over because there’s this new load of talent coming up on him. Shwartzman will be in an Alfa Romeo or a Haas next season I’m sure, while Schumacher probably will too. I reckon Red Bull will probably fast-track one of Tsunoda or Vips into an AlphaTauri seat next season in place of Kvyat who simply can’t keep in that drive forever delivering 6/10s across the board.

Lundgaard, Armstrong and co will probably stay in F2 for a second season I’d think but depending on their results might be a big factor this time next year.

 I agree on Vips. He should have been in F2 this year. And it does seem like the way to F1 is becoming much more linear as well. Tsunoda, a Japanese driver in a Honda powered car, would be a good story. How does it look with his superlicense though?



#9 as65p

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 10:15

Schumacher would need to **** up big time not to be promoted to F1. Like finishing outside the top 5 in the F2 championship. Shwartzman looks less certain, even if he wins F2, mainly because I'm not convinced Haas will be there in 2021, and in that case would Ferrari want both their juniors at Alfa?



#10 statman

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 10:34

Schwartzman and Vips



#11 jonpollak

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 10:37

I’d prefer Bobby spend another year at Prema. Then in 2022 go to F1.
Jp

#12 SonGoku

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 10:42

Probably seats available at Alpha Tauri, Alfa and HAAS. The rest of the grid? I don't see it.

#13 balage06

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 10:45

I just hope that Lawson will eventually get one of the AlphaTauri seats. Unfortunately Hitech's season start has been a bit of a disaster and he also made a mistake after an excellent battle with Hughes, but the kid is a brilliant racer, I think he would be a decent addition to the F1 grid.


Edited by balage06, 25 July 2020 - 10:47.


#14 messy

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 10:55

I’d prefer Bobby spend another year at Prema. Then in 2022 go to F1.
Jp


Wouldn’t even be possible if he wins it though. Even really if he finishes second. You don’t tend to see drivers coming back in that case because the only way they can go better is to utterly dominate it Vandoorne style. Markelov stayed on after finishing P2 in 2017 and his rep took a hit it’s never recovered from because he didn’t go one better in 2018, far from it.

I think he’ll be on the F1 grid next year.

#15 jonpollak

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 11:11

Yeah well that’s my preference.
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#16 A.Fant

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 11:30

For 2021 I'd say only Shwartzman and Schumacher have a shot the way things are developing.

The way Pourchaire is driving I wouldn't be surprised to see him on the 2022 grid if he has a superlicense at that point. Looks like the clearly biggest talent coming up the ladder at the moment.

Lundgaard and Zhou are in a bit of an awkward position as Renault look to be a top team and the downgrade from Ocon would be massive. If they manage to secure a partnership with another team for 2022 they may be able to orchestrate a seat, in which case I hope it goes to Lundgaard since I rate Zhou at the level of someone like Latifi at best.

Also wonder if someone would take a shot at trying to bring over Herta or O'Ward for 2022 if they continue improving in IndyCar.

I hope with the incoming budget cap and the fact that driver expenses will be exempt we will see a big increase in investment from teams in their driver academies. The fact that Red Bull refused to pay for an F2 seat for Vips is still mind boggling, especially considering their academy has been in shambles since Gasly graduated to F1. Verschoor not being what everyone expected really set them back.

#17 BRG

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 11:32

Schumacher - If he impresses this season it seems to be a given that there is an Alfa seat up for grabs, with Kimi, with Gio or maybe with Schwartzman?

Sadly, it isn't a level playing field this year (if it ever is) and some of the real talent in F2 and F3 is going to be squandered because one guy already has a Field Marshal's baton in his backpack.

 

If Schumacher wins F2, then fair enough, but if he sidles into F1 with only an also-ran placing, it will be a little shameful when there are proven better drivers missing out as a result.

 

But most of this crop are going to be disappointed anyway as there simply isn't room at the inn for all of them - something that ought to be worrying the F1 establishment, but clearly isn't - and they will have to look to Indycar or F. E.  Even if some of F1's dead wood like Kimi, Romain and Gio get the chop , there isn't room for all.



#18 jonpollak

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 11:56

Hands off our Indycar drivers A.Fant !!!
Jp

#19 A.Fant

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 11:57

Hands off our Indycar drivers A.Fant !!!
Jp

 

What I really want is to see is Rosenqvist in F1, but the chance of that ever happening is quite low unfortunately. I was always puzzled as to why Ericsson's Swedish backers never lent some of that support to Felix and tried to get him into F1.


Edited by A.Fant, 25 July 2020 - 11:59.


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#20 balage06

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 16:01

Regarding the others, I think the likes of Ilott, Schumacher and Zhou are decent, but not exceptionally talented drivers, I don't really consider them great F1 prospects based on what I've seen from them so far. Armstrong and Lundgaard have remarkable raw speed, but both lack in consistency, especially compared to Shwartzman. For me, the Russian seems to be the most ready to step up to F1, he's probably not the fastest of the bunch based on pure speed, but somehow he ends up being ahead of everybody else most of the time.



#21 maximilian

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 16:24

If Tsunoda manages the needed SL points, I would be surprised if he doesn't get the AlphaT call-up, also given the Honda connection.

 

Likewise, I expect Shwartzman (on sheer merit) and Schumacher (as long as he shows ANYTHING at all, and he's off to a good start) to be there.

 

Zhou and Lundgaard are hurt by Alonso's return, a Renault seat seems far away at this point - unless Ocon really stuffs up his season (which so far has been unimpressive, granted).

 

Ilott and Ticktum seem to always be sticking around, but not sure where they really could fit in, even if they do real well.

 

It's seriously time for Grosjean, Kimi, Kvyat, Giovinazzi to vacate some seats - they aren't going to do anything new and exciting, and new faces need to be given a chance.  Maybe Magnussen, too.  All those guys have gone stale.



#22 jcbc3

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 17:30

Schwartschmannn seems the best bet.

 

Ticktum will never get a seat. Too inconsistent and still damaged goods. Armstrong not quite good enough. Illott seems good enough but I can't see a natural team for him. Zhou/Lundgaard look like the inseparable twins of the Renault academy. Both have good and not so good races. Zhou must be the dream for marketing reasons, but Lundgaard has had the slightly better career path based on his youth. 

 

OT: Maximillian; Based on the last race alone, I wouldn't say Magnussen has gone anyway stale. 



#23 NewMrMe

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 18:06

I have a worrying feeling that if only one Ferrari academy driver steps up to F1  it will be Schumacher regardless of results even though I think Schwartzman is the most talented of the drivers on the cusp of F1. Ideally though I would like to see them both get a chance next year. I think Giovanazzi has had a chance and hasn't shown anything. Maybe Ferrari could send some money Haas's way if they take on an academy driver.

 

If results go well this year for both Vips and Tsunoda this year I don't see why Alpha Tauri couldn't have a complete clear out and take both.They have effectively done that before when they dropped Buemi and Alguersuari for Ricciardo and Vergne. The Red Bull talent well has been running dry for a few years after both Verschoor and Kari disappointed in junior series. Nobody from the program has knocked on F1's door since Gasly arrived.

 

The Renault drivers are a bit snookered with the arrival of Alonso. I think Zhou has a chance of turning up somewhere because of the commercial implications of a quick Chinese driver.

 

I can't see anyone outside of those 5 getting into F1 in the next couple of years and I would be surprised if more than 3 of them do.

 

On other points is that the Ferrari academy almost seems to be an embarrassment of riches at the moment. In other years Ilott and Armstrong could have had a chance at getting an Alfa drive but with Schumacher and Schwartzman there I can't see either of them getting a shot.



#24 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 18:50

Talking about Red Bull juniors. I find Daruvala very underwhelming so far. As far as I can remember, he was battling with Shwartzman and Armstrong back in F3 last year. Is he just not that good after all?

#25 midgrid

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 19:04

Shwartzman and Schumacher seem likely candidates for Alfa Romeo or even Haas seats, although the ability for both of them to be promoted at once may depend on what happens to Vettel, Pérez and Räikkönen - if all remain in the sport, I suspect there will only be room for one, and I further suspect that this will be Schumacher unless Shwartzman wins the championship. I can certainly see Giovinazzi being dropped regardless of what happens to the others, and Ferrari would probably be keen to hire him back as their full-time simulator driver.

I think Ilott is the effective bridesmaid to Schumacher (due to the latter's name), and Armstrong the equivalent to Shwartzman (due to the latter's talent), and F1 looks like a long-shot. Both should have rewarding and successful careers in IndyCar, Formula E, or whichever series they end up in.

Zhou looks to have been leapfrogged by the rookie drivers and I think he will only secure an F1 drive if a current team withdraws and the entry is saved by a Chinese company or consortium. Lundgaard seems like the better Renault prospect if Ocon gets the boot, or Alonso's comeback doesn't work out.

In F3 Piastri and Pourchaire look like the best prospects - reminiscent of Shwartzman and Lundgaard last year respectively.

#26 muramasa

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 19:07

Tsunoda will not get F1 seat just by having enough super license points, he needs to impress as well, at least Albon level I'd say. He's doing better than estimation but competition is hard and standard is high, at this moment it looks like he may possibly get some in-season testing and Friday outings, as well as reserve role if he does well the rest of the season, next year, which will be good step up for Japanese drivers scene as those young people in karting in Japan see it and get motivation, then hand the baton to next generations in that form. That's realistic prospect I would think, and still good achievement.



#27 William Hunt

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 19:09

Armstrong not quite good enough. Illott seems good enough but I can't see a natural team for him. 

 

How can you draw that conclusion on Armstrong when he finished his debut F2 race in second place?

And I can see Illot ending up at Sauber-Alfa Romeo. Illot clearly outperformed Schumacher last season in a much lesser team (Charouz) and he's currently in the title chase.



#28 messy

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 19:14

Regarding the others, I think the likes of Ilott, Schumacher and Zhou are decent, but not exceptionally talented drivers, I don't really consider them great F1 prospects based on what I've seen from them so far. Armstrong and Lundgaard have remarkable raw speed, but both lack in consistency, especially compared to Shwartzman. For me, the Russian seems to be the most ready to step up to F1, he's probably not the fastest of the bunch based on pure speed, but somehow he ends up being ahead of everybody else most of the time.


Worth saying though that people said that about a certain Lewis Hamilton at one time, when he was getting outqualified by Piquet Jr (of all people) most weekends in GP2 but ending up on the top step. I think Shwartzman has plenty of speed, he’s just a bit more clever. Already.

Problem with Ilott is that for all he’s started the season well, he’s a couple of tenths slower than Zhou all being equal and not always the most convincing racer - last season he found himself in countless winning positions in late-season sprint races but always faded back - he’s not got any ‘oomph’ in wheel to wheel battle and never has had, really. I don’t think he’s quite F1 material. Dan Ticktum needs to do more than he currently is I think, as people have already alluded to he’s still seen as damaged goods and he’s racing for a top team with an inept team-mate. It’s all set up beautifully for him to look good but so far he’s just got a couple of good sprint race results.

#29 jcbc3

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 19:16

I don't just look at the results but also the driving. It's just an opinion.



#30 midgrid

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 19:46

Tsunoda will not get F1 seat just by having enough super license points, he needs to impress as well, at least Albon level I'd say. He's doing better than estimation but competition is hard and standard is high, at this moment it looks like he may possibly get some in-season testing and Friday outings, as well as reserve role if he does well the rest of the season, next year, which will be good step up for Japanese drivers scene as those young people in karting in Japan see it and get motivation, then hand the baton to next generations in that form. That's realistic prospect I would think, and still good achievement.


That surprises me: I assume that Tsunoda, Vips, or any other Red Bull or Honda junior will be promoted as soon as they secure the Super Licence, given that Gasly and Kvyat in particular are rejects from the senior team and presumably placeholders in Alpha Tauri until someone else can replace them.

#31 ANF

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 20:48

Ticktum will never get a seat. Too inconsistent and still damaged goods.

But on a good day I believe he has the skill and the bravery to outrace any of the other junior drivers that have been mentioned in this thread. Well, maybe not Liam Lawson.

#32 muramasa

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 20:59

That surprises me: I assume that Tsunoda, Vips, or any other Red Bull or Honda junior will be promoted as soon as they secure the Super Licence, given that Gasly and Kvyat in particular are rejects from the senior team and presumably placeholders in Alpha Tauri until someone else can replace them.

Getting enough super license points is not too difficult, most of current drivers who have enough points are of course good but not spectacular, I dont see any of these replacing current regular AT drivers if they were RB drivers. Occasional podium contender with 1 or few wins is just not good enough. The very Gasly and Kvyat are standard benchmark. Tsunoda did well in F3 last year but didn't storm the field at all, only if he joined champion battle in F2 this year he may have decent chance. Vips is better prospect than Tsunoda from past performances, bit hard to assess him in SF but Gasly, Vandoorne in SF would be benchmark I'd guess. If a new driver in RB/Honda camp came up like Lec, Norris/Russell, Gasly/Vandoorne etc did, then it sure is no brainer to replace one of AT drivers, but anything less than that, you are just not good enough, which is why Hartley got promoted from WEC, Kvyat got reappointed and Albon got last min surprise appointment.


Edited by muramasa, 25 July 2020 - 21:09.


#33 Neno

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 21:07

Renault needs customer team to promote one of their drivers. If they truly believe in someone from their academy they will/should offer basically almost free engines to some team for seat.  



#34 maximilian

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Posted 26 July 2020 - 01:58

Getting enough super license points is not too difficult, most of current drivers who have enough points are of course good but not spectacular, I dont see any of these replacing current regular AT drivers if they were RB drivers. Occasional podium contender with 1 or few wins is just not good enough. The very Gasly and Kvyat are standard benchmark. Tsunoda did well in F3 last year but didn't storm the field at all, only if he joined champion battle in F2 this year he may have decent chance. Vips is better prospect than Tsunoda from past performances, bit hard to assess him in SF but Gasly, Vandoorne in SF would be benchmark I'd guess. If a new driver in RB/Honda camp came up like Lec, Norris/Russell, Gasly/Vandoorne etc did, then it sure is no brainer to replace one of AT drivers, but anything less than that, you are just not good enough, which is why Hartley got promoted from WEC, Kvyat got reappointed and Albon got last min surprise appointment.

 

I think Tsunoda has a shot, even if not spectacular (and he'd have to be pretty spectacular to score enough points anyways), because Honda.  Honda's been trying to move mountains to get Matsushita to collect enough points, and the bloke just isn't making the cut like they were hoping - for YEARS now! 

 

So if Tsunoda manages a "close enough", he'll more than likely get the call-up, especially with RB's roster already pretty thin.

 

Besides, look how CUTE he is!  :lol:  Think of all the damsels who will be reaching for a Red Bull in the near future.

 

tsunoda-f2.jpg


Edited by maximilian, 26 July 2020 - 02:02.


#35 motohead

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Posted 26 July 2020 - 06:39

I think the following is not too unrealistic given the circumstances, and is really what I'd hope for as well

1.Tsunoda gets Kvyat's Alpha Tauri seat
2.Schwarzman gets Gio's Alfa seat
3.Schumacher gets Gro's Haas seat (As a part of a deal giving Haas discounts on engines and drawing the team closer to Ferrari. As an alternative to withdrawing from the series, which would leave Ferrari with only 2 customer team.)

Less likely, but hopeful scenario:

4. If Ocon keeps going like he has so far, not being too impressive, Lundgaard/Zhao gets his seat for 21 (with Abitebouls remarks about an academy driver maybe in for 21 there might be some clause in Ocon's contract.), becoming the apprentice to Alonso (obviously with a different handle on things than with Vandoorne)

#36 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 26 July 2020 - 09:35

I think Shwartzman and Schumacher would be the other way around. Steiner already stated he thinks Shwartzman is an interesting driver. There has been no speculation about a Schumacher move to Haas whatsoever.

#37 Marklar

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Posted 26 July 2020 - 09:58

Worth saying though that people said that about a certain Lewis Hamilton at one time, when he was getting outqualified by Piquet Jr (of all people) most weekends in GP2 but ending up on the top step. I think Shwartzman has plenty of speed, he’s just a bit more clever. Already.

I was thinking about this comparison the other day too, because Lewis was really a *way* better racer than qualifier in feeder series and karting, and then when he arrived in F1 he was suddenly the benchmark over one lap for many years.

This does show that the skills drivers show in feeder series might not transfer to F1, but I also wouldnt count on everything to change.

If Shwartzmann does carry over the same qualities into F1 he will probably start well since he is in terms of race management already ahead. But when the others who may be quicker gain more experience he will hit diminishing returns and probably only be a average driver (which is what I would have predicted a few years ago anyway, remember that he got outclassed by Norris in the same team back in FR2.0)

If he however develops raw speed he could become a very serious driver, though. But just like almost every other driver from this generation probably not absolute top tier.

Lundgaard looks to me most promising looking at his raw speed and results relative to experience (aside from Pourchaire, but still bit early for him)

Edited by Marklar, 26 July 2020 - 10:00.


#38 djparky

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Posted 26 July 2020 - 11:04

Theres not many options, driver careers last a long time now- so the 3 or 4 good drives are locked up for years on end. Guess there may be options at Haas and Alfa but nothing more than just getting on the grid. Those with funding may look to Indy Car as an alternative. Of the current crop Schwartzman is the stand out in F2

#39 absinthedude

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Posted 26 July 2020 - 12:15

One factor is how many seats will be available in F1? Haas might decide to change something around with the drivers, assuming they continue into 2021 and 2022. I can see Grosjean being dropped, despite his history with the team. He's really underperformed in recent times and continues to do so. KMag isn't the next big thing but he is far more consistent. Alfa Romeo could well find a place for Mick if he has a great season but that's not as clear cut as it once was. Gio struggled last year but he's looked much better so far this year....while Kimi has gone decidedly off the boil. So what seemed fairly obvious last year (Mick to replace Gio) is now less clear cut.

 

What will happen at Alpha Tauri? Are there more REd Bull junior drivers around? Will Kvyat get the boot? And if so, would Haas be better off hiring him rather than a rookie?



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#40 HistoryFan

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Posted 26 July 2020 - 17:05

Shwartzman and Schumacher are likely. I also would like to see Guanyu Zhou in Formula 1. I think it would be a good thing für F1 to have a Chinese driver in the field.



#41 Viryfan

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Posted 26 July 2020 - 17:11

I think the following is not too unrealistic given the circumstances, and is really what I'd hope for as well

1.Tsunoda gets Kvyat's Alpha Tauri seat
2.Schwarzman gets Gio's Alfa seat
3.Schumacher gets Gro's Haas seat (As a part of a deal giving Haas discounts on engines and drawing the team closer to Ferrari. As an alternative to withdrawing from the series, which would leave Ferrari with only 2 customer team.)

Less likely, but hopeful scenario:

4. If Ocon keeps going like he has so far, not being too impressive, Lundgaard/Zhao gets his seat for 21 (with Abitebouls remarks about an academy driver maybe in for 21 there might be some clause in Ocon's contract.), becoming the apprentice to Alonso (obviously with a different handle on things than with Vandoorne)


Ocon has been already confirmed for 2021.

#42 William Hunt

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Posted 26 July 2020 - 22:23

Renault needs customer team to promote one of their drivers. If they truly believe in someone from their academy they will/should offer basically almost free engines to some team for seat.  

 

Potential new entrants Panthera and Campos have the intention to run with Renault engines. That would be ideal for Renault to place their academy drivers there (Zhou would be a great fit at Panthera) but that's if the FIA / Liberty allow those new teams in... Ross Brawn is not enthusiastic.

On Panthera:

https://www.autospor...id-slot-in-2022

On Campos:

https://f1i.com/news...ry-to-2022.html



#43 HistoryFan

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Posted 27 July 2020 - 12:30

they won't enter F1 because F1 didn't want more teams – what is a shame!



#44 William Hunt

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 15:17

they won't enter F1 because F1 didn't want more teams – what is a shame!

 

We still don't know if Panthera and / or Campos will be granted an entry.

Yes it's obvious that people like Ross Brawn are clearly defending the financial interest of current F1 teams (and in Brawns case in particular the top teams) instead of opening up F1 for new entrants, he's advocating protectionism over honest competition. 
But that doesn't mean it's certain that we won't see Panthera or Campos in 2022 on the F1 grid, for starters we don't even know if all current teams will be there and I expect in particular Panthera to push extremely hard for that entry, especially because they have already made an investment and they have people working on the project already. 

 

Frankly there is no good reason why the FIA should be allowed to block new entries, it goes against the history of the sport as well and it's unfair. That's as if the Premier League in soccer would say 'from next season nobody ever relegates again and no new team can be promoted in', imagine the outrage from teams or fans of clubs in lower divisions.

In a fair F1 competition anyone who follows the rules and can produce an F1 car according to those rules should be allowed a chance even if they don't have the finances to survive long term in place yet: then they will go bankrupt as many teams have in the past: that's a natural proces.

 

But for now we can't assume that Panthera (or Campos) won't be there because they themselves have stated otherwise.


Edited by William Hunt, 30 July 2020 - 15:22.


#45 BRG

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 15:41

We still don't know if Panthera and / or Campos will be granted an entry.

Frankly there is no good reason why the FIA should be allowed to block new entries, it goes against the history of the sport as well and it's unfair. That's as if the Premier League in soccer would say 'from next season nobody ever relegates again and no new team can be promoted in', imagine the outrage from teams or fans of clubs in lower divisions.

I wonder if the FIA really can legally block people from entering a World Championship?  Not that I would recommend anyone trying to test it in court as that would take decades.  IIRC, the Premier League did originally try to set itself up as a closed shop, but there was such an outcry that they had to concede.

 

But I am sceptical that either Panthera or Campos are really viable new entrants.  It ought to be established and well-known racing teams that rise into F1, not new start-ups with zero track record.



#46 Sterzo

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 21:36

 

Yes it's obvious that people like Ross Brawn are clearly defending the financial interest of current F1 teams (and in Brawns case in particular the top teams) instead of opening up F1 for new entrants, he's advocating protectionism over honest competition.

I don't think he's said this at all. He has said this is not the time for F1 to go looking for new teams. Given the imminent changes (cost cap and technical rules) and covid crisis, he just might be right.



#47 William Hunt

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 23:05

It's never the right time for people like Ross Brawn and that's exactly because he represents the interest of the teams already in it, the fact that he worked for several top teams makes him not an objective person in his function at all. 

 

Everyone knows that the right and best time for a new team to enter a sport is exactly when the rules are changing, if they come in later with the new rules already in place then they will be at a huge disadvantage, they will be 1 year behind then so Brawn is clearly saying that to protect the financial interest of the current teams, it is far from objective: the other F1 teams don't want any new team(s) in because they don't want to share price or tv money money with a new team. The cost cap provides even an extra incentive for a new team to enter in '22.

 

And he shouldn't be deciding for others 'what the right time' is. If the entrant thinks the right time is now and they can produce a car & team following the rules they should be allowed in and given a chance. Period.


Edited by William Hunt, 30 July 2020 - 23:06.


#48 noikeee

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 23:20

Brawn doesn't represent the teams, he represents Liberty who are a separate entity.

There may be a degree of keeping them happy to ensure there's room politically to push other things like the budget cap. But now with the big economic crisis I really do think its wise to postpone new entries. How can you make any predictions to judge the financial stability of any incoming teams, when the whole economy is unstable? New teams unless extremely well funded tend to be shaky and fail promises at the best of times, nevermind now.

Also anything that cuts more income from the existing teams is really unwise now, who knows just how precarious things are for Williams etc. Better to make sure they survive first before trying to add more.

Edited by noikeee, 30 July 2020 - 23:21.


#49 Myrvold

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 23:32

There may be a degree of keeping them happy to ensure there's room politically to push other things like the budget cap. But now with the big economic crisis I really do think its wise to postpone new entries. How can you make any predictions to judge the financial stability of any incoming teams, when the whole economy is unstable? New teams unless extremely well funded tend to be shaky and fail promises at the best of times, nevermind now.

 

Should it really matter though? If they build a car that's legal, have an engine deal and pays the entry fee. That should be enough? 



#50 noikeee

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Posted 31 July 2020 - 00:34

Should it really matter though? If they build a car that's legal, have an engine deal and pays the entry fee. That should be enough?


It shouldn't but you know that's not how things work anymore (and hasn't been for some 20 years now). It's a closed franchise now.

To a degree that's sensible, to prevent joke attempts like Lola Mastercard or Andrea Moda and to prevent unstable situations like having to have pre-qualifying.