126 replies to this topic

[BRG]

In the latest edition, Motorsport has published a list of thirty suggestions of motor sport's cult heroes.

What is a cult hero? MS says "....cult heroes transcend mere trophies. These are sporting greats whose skill, charisma and personalities enchant fans, no matter where they compete and where they finish."

That link above has just six if them, but the full list is :-

30. Archie Scott-Brown
29. Guy Moll
28. Parnelli Jones
27. Henri Toivonen
26. Gerry Marshall
25. Georges Boillot
24. Gian-Carlo Minardi
23. Robin Herd
22. Jo Siffert
21. Francois Delecour
20. Bob Wollek
19. Ron Tauranac
18. Ronnie Peterson
17. David Purley
16. Gwenda Hughes
15. Rodger Ward
14. Robert Kubica
13. Mark Donohue
12. Derek Minter
11. Tommy Byrne
10. Chris Amon
9. Kimi Raikkonen
8. Dave Coyne
7. Vic Elford
6. Jon Ekerold
5. Stefan Bellof
4. Ari Vatanen (pity they mis-spelt his name...)
3. Gilles Villeneuve
2. Bernd Rosemeyer
1. Jochen Rindt

This is of course a subjective thing and there may be a differentiation between 'cult heroes' and simple 'heroes'. For instance, the likes of Fangio, Clark, Prost, Enzo Ferrari, Andretti, Nuvolari et al are definitively motor racing heroes, but do they have the special cachet of cult hero?

I am happy with most the names on this list, which is pleasingly diverse and not too Anglocentric or F1-centric, and there are plenty of TNF favourites there. However I felt that Robin Herd, whilst a great designer etc and a good bloke just isn't a cult hero. And Tommy Byrne isn't either. And surely a list of this sort, if it includes Vatanen and Delecour, ought to have Colin McRae, who is probably rallying's most heroic of cult heroes?

[Glengavel]

Ken Miles

Frank Gardner

Eric Carlsson

[MCS]

Unfortunately - as with so many things these days - it's all about making money.  They could have included Denis Jenkinson as one of their Cult Heroes of course, but I doubt there is anybody there who even knows who DSJ is (or was, sadly).

 

Look at their website.  Once you have navigated the headlines - predominantly MotoGP, Lewis Hamilton or Ayrton Senna related - they really just want you to Visit the Motor Sport Shop and buy a "Leather Art" Duffle Bag | Black | Stirling Moss - 1959 | Jordan Bespoke for £795.00, helpfully also listed in Euros and US Dollars.  Great, or rather not.  Oh, it isn't a Duffle Bag either by the way.

 

Complete and utter nonsense.

[BRG]

Unfortunately - as with so many things these days - it's all about making money.  They could have included Denis Jenkinson as one of their Cult Heroes of course, but I doubt there is anybody there who even knows who DSJ is (or was, sadly).

 

My, a bit choleric today?  A rough night perhaps ?

 

See P.10 of current MotorSport.  'In the spirit of Bods and Jenks' complete with little cartoons of each.  Further down I see the name of Doug Nye (DCN) as a Contributing Editor.  Doug is the custodian of  the Jenks archives.  In the recent Stirling Moss tribute edition of the magazine, they re-printed in full Jenks's report on the Mille Miglia victory of Moss/Jenkinson.  They know very well who DSJ was.  

 

But he could certainly be considered a cult hero.

[john winfield]

The link only shows me part of the list. I can't see the page that includes Mo Nunn, Dave Brodie, Chris Summers, Pat Moss, Patrick Depailler, Tetsu Ikuzawa, Syd Fox, Jim Walsh, Bill Ivy, Mick Hill, Eric Offenstadt, Frank 'Rover Special' Lockhart, Bo Pittard, Phil de Banks, Jacques Coulon and Brian Henton. And, as Glengavel suggests, Frank Gardner.

[BRG]

The link only shows me part of the list.

 

Ah, you see, that's why I wrote that the link only shows six names!

 

But your additions are all definite contenders.  Although possible Brian Henton was mainly a cult hero to himself. 

[Bloggsworth]

Er... Nigel Mansell?

[Michael Ferner]

Interesting list! I raised an eyebrow or two when I came to Giancarlo Minardi, but then, maybe I just don't know enough about him. And, only two bikers, although excellent choices both, especially Jon Ekerold who I always had a soft spot for! I am not sure, though, why they chose Rodger Ward to represent the roundy-round boys, surely there are more exciting and "enchanting" personalities in US oval racing - heck, I'd even chose Foyt or Andretti over Ward any time!

[Jack-the-Lad]

A.J.

[ReWind]

What is a cult hero?  MS says "....cult heroes transcend mere trophies.  These are sporting greats whose skill, charisma and personalities enchant fans, no matter where they compete and where they finish."

 

If that is the relevant perspective then it does not matter what any journalist or TNFer of today thinks. You have to put yourself in the shoes (or better: the minds) of contemporary motor racing fans to find the people that the fans held in awe over the decades.

[MCS]

My, a bit choleric today?  A rough night perhaps ?

 

See P.10 of current MotorSport.  'In the spirit of Bods and Jenks' complete with little cartoons of each.  Further down I see the name of Doug Nye (DCN) as a Contributing Editor.  Doug is the custodian of  the Jenks archives.  In the recent Stirling Moss tribute edition of the magazine, they re-printed in full Jenks's report on the Mille Miglia victory of Moss/Jenkinson.  They know very well who DSJ was.  

 

But he could certainly be considered a cult hero.

"See page 10" ?!     Hardly, I gave up with it years ago.  However, if they are re-printing some of the old stuff and Doug is contributing then I may take a look.  There again, probably not because of all the modern stuff which . . .

 

Signed,

Mr Grumpy (primarily because he's stuck at home)

[D28]

One can't help but notice roughly 1/3 of these heroes paid the ultimate price in their motorsport endeavors, could cult status be some how related?  Anyway it is a difficult definition to assign to someone. 

Edited by D28, 29 September 2020 - 14:41.

[68targa]

As with all these lists, one persons cult figure will not be for another.  I would never consider Robin Herd a cult hero but others &  MS obviously do. I always felt that Jean Behra had a touch of cult status about him although I never saw him race, he seemed to have charisma and the right amount of 'grit'.    Another would be Ken Miles.

[PlayboyRacer]

And surely a list of this sort, if it includes Vatanen and Delecour, ought to have Colin McRae, who is probably rallying's most heroic of cult heroes?

Absolutely agree on Colin McRae. Not sure why Kubica is there... a little odd.

Henri Toivonen should be higher too.

[pete53]

The Oxford dictionary definition of cult is fairly derogatory, with strong religious connotations.

 

1. A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or as imposing excessive control over members.
    
2. Misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular thing.
   
   To me somebody described as having a cult following tends to be cherished by a smallish group of people and who share a devotion that isn't generally shared in the wider domain. In fact I always felt that cult followers have an element of revelling in their somewhat exclusive appreciation of their subject of admiration.

On that note, I'm not sure I would have Jochen Rindt, Ronnie Peterson or Jo Siffert in the list as they were very popular in their day and I don't think there was/is anything cultish in following them.

 

Anyway, I guess it's just a bit of fun and there will never be full agreement on the appropriateness of the names on this list, nor on any additional suggestions.

Edited by pete53, 29 September 2020 - 15:32.

[BRG]

Er... Nigel Mansell?

It occurs to me that I should have added that this business seems to be aimed at getting people nominated for the MotorSport Hall of Fame.  So I guess some of the more obvious candidates may already be in the HoF, like Mansell or indeed McRae.  Unfortunately, the MS website doesn't seem to allow you to see a list of all the existing HoF members which is somewhat cramping our style.

[Myhinpaa]

The only list I could find is well hidden.., and not updated since the 2018 list of inductees.

 

https://www.motorspo...-fame-inductees

[Doug Nye]

I absolutely hate lists as the basis of a space-filling feature....

 

 

[garoidb]

If he is not in hall of fame already, how about Alex Zanardi?

[john winfield]

I absolutely hate lists as the basis of a space-filling feature....

 

 

 

Doug, over the years you must have seen many, many lists used by desperate editors. Could you give us your top ten most irritating? Lists or editors, we don't mind.....

[BRG]

The only list I could find is well hidden.., and not updated since the 2018 list of inductees.

 

https://www.motorspo...-fame-inductees

Well done!  I couldn't find this even after some serious looking.  It answers two points above - Mansell and McRae are already in.  As is nearly everyone else you could think of, so maybe this cult hero idea is a desperate attempt to find some more names!

[Richard Jenkins]

I absolutely hate lists as the basis of a space-filling feature....

It's not as if there's not enough stories and writers out there either. Many would love to fill the space with something different.

[sabrejet]

This smacks of desperation. Maybe the subject of a pub natter, but in a 'motorsport' magazine, what's the point? (other than being filler which requires little effort or imagination).

[Jack-the-Lad]

I absolutely hate lists as the basis of a space-filling feature....
 
 

The Content God must be fed. And he isn’t particular about what he eats.

[john aston]

Dire - I am not a fan, but an enthusiast , and I don't have heroes , and raise an eyebrow at those who even feel they need to bestow the sort of  uncritical adulation which heroism seems to attract .  But obviously it must serve some purpose - perhaps to satisfy any OCD folk who cant sleep without deciding the pressing question of whether a pre war Grand Prix racer is better than the well padded guy who used to win a lot of Formula Ford races . 

Edited by john aston, 29 September 2020 - 17:39.

[2F-001]

... the well padded guy who used to win a lot of Formula Ford races . 

 

Were you thinking of the fellow we saw racing an Escort at the weekend? 

[10kDA]

Kevin Schwantz

Jim Crawford

Miles Baldwin

Lloyd Ruby

[Tim Murray]

Dave Coyne—the ultimate cult hero

[10kDA]

Jim Hall

Yvon Duhamel

Alan Kulwicki

Randy Renfrow

[10kDA]

Denny Zimmerman

Geoff Brabham

Danny Ongais

Uncle Jacques Villeneuve

[Doug Nye]

Doug, over the years you must have seen many, many lists used by desperate editors. Could you give us your top ten most irritating? Lists or editors, we don't mind.....

 

Nope.

 

I'm probably in enough trouble already...   But I really don't like lists.   

 

DCN

[kayemod]

Joey Dunlop

 

Don Garlits

 

Maybe John McGuiness, and I'm not a biker, or even a bike enthusiast.

 

Definitely Tazio, how could anyone leave him out?

 

Keke Rosberg

[E1pix]

Wow 10K, you nailed it on several of those!

Hard to quantify what “cult” means in this context, as any other use of the word is rather descriptive of “creepy” and reminiscent of Charles Manson over here.

That said, I do believe some who died — especially if early on in a starry career and having a rapid following (in a James Dean sense) — seem to become cult figures.

A few additions, with apologies if already mentioned:
Bruce McLaren
Francois
John Greenwood
Don Yenko
Mike Mosley
Gary Bettenhausen
Dan Gurney
Wolfgang von Trips
John Paul, Sr. and Jr., Randy Lanier, the Whittingtons (mostly for very bad yet morbidly-curious methods to the sport)

For whatever reason, it seems AJ nor Mario fit, but this is really subjective to our personal definition.

Aside, I agree with most exclusions above. But I do think Tommy Byrne fits.

[Dipster]

Barry Lee

George Polley

[E1pix]

Oh...

Barry Sheene!
JAMES HUNT
Edit: Alexander Hesketh!

Edited by E1pix, 29 September 2020 - 18:39.

[kayemod]

Certainly agree about James Hunt', and how about Niki Lauda?

 

But in the earlier list in relation to Max Rufus Mosley, surely "cult" was spelled wrong?

[E1pix]

Per the former, agree but thought he was mentioned. Whoops.

Per the latter, coffee has just come from my nose. :-)

[MCS]

Dave Coyne—the ultimate cult hero

If only.  See the ninth paragraph . . .

[Sterzo]

Any chance of correcting the thread title, folks?

[E1pix]

“Motor Sport?”

[sabrejet]

Oh go on then - Mickey Thompson.

[d j fox]

Hans Stuck
Claude Ballot Lena
Jean Xchenceval
Claude Haldi

[KWSN - DSM]

Wow 10K, you nailed it on several of those!

Hard to quantify what “cult” means in this context, as any other use of the word is rather descriptive of “creepy” and reminiscent of Charles Manson over here.

That said, I do believe some who died — especially if early on in a starry career and having a rapid following (in a James Dean sense) — seem to become cult figures.

A few additions, with apologies if already mentioned:
Bruce McLaren
Francois
John Greenwood
Don Yenko
Mike Mosley
Gary Bettenhausen
Dan Gurney
Wolfgang von Trips
John Paul, Sr. and Jr., Randy Lanier, the Whittingtons (mostly for very bad yet morbidly-curious methods to the sport)

For whatever reason, it seems AJ nor Mario fit, but this is really subjective to our personal definition.

Aside, I agree with most exclusions above. But I do think Tommy Byrne fits.

 

Love that you have John Paul Sr. and Jr, there, they must be the epitome of Cult Heroes...

 

I have likes & can not see why they are there from the original list and the various suggestions along the way.... To me and my personal views on this you can not be too popular a driver, and you can not be a World Champion, I would be looking for the more sectarian, the eclectic whom we possibly grew on to, and despite not always be winners they were non-winners with a smile.... Meaning Giancarlo Minardi is a correct choice on the original list.

[Tim Murray]

Any chance of correcting the thread title, folks?

“Motor Sport?”

Sorted.

[E1pix]

Special Thanks to the parrot. :-)

[richardspringett]

Would  Silvio Moser warrant an entry?

 

Richard 

[john aston]

If, IF , I had to add names then obviously Art Arfons , Don Garlits and the cigar smuggling , under the arches secondhand car dealer and Can Am victor   Tony Dean would be on the list. And somebody I know who makes my enthusiasm  seem at dilettante level would be inconsolable if at least one of the Brambilla brothers were not mentioned ....

[Colbul1]

I had my heroes, who doesn't when they're growing up!  Obviously, as a child in the 80s mine was Mansell, and as much as he tells tales of his racing exploits which don't sit so easily with the facts, I still get goosebumps when I see his exploits in the cars.

 

I would add as cult heroes Innes Ireland, Jacky Ickx, Alan Moffat, Peter Brock and Alfonso Portago.  Fon Portago was a superstar of the 50s I would contend.

[RCH]

I read through the list and after thinking what a strange list three missing names immediately occured to me:

 

Tazio Nuvolari, Jean Behra and above all, should certainly have been at number one; Pedro Rodriguez.

Edited by RCH, 30 September 2020 - 11:39.

[AJCee]

Jan Lammers
James Weaver
Tony Dron

But nah, subjective lists....

Edited by AJCee, 30 September 2020 - 11:41.